Vermin Control: Release feral cats back into the wild

J.R.

Vermin control has often been discussed on the forum: greycrows, magpies, foxes, etc.
One species that can do untold damage in the countryside is the domestic cat that has gone wild / been abandoned (feral cat).


This is the policy of the Green Party.

6. Domestic animals in Ireland
6.1 The party aims to introduce a countrywide neutering programme for stray cats and dogs. The situation, at present, has reached crisis point and needs to be addressed urgently. This would involve trapping of feral cats, transportation of these cats to and from the vets and release back into the natural habitat. These stray colonies should be monitored, ensuring that they have access to food and shelter, a basic requirement. This will dramatically improve the situation.

http://www.greenparty.ie/en/policies/animal_welfare/animal_welfare_policy


What do other hunters think of releasing feral cats back into the wild? (one of the most effecient predators)

Do hunters agree that this will dramatically improve the situation for all nesting birds, mammals etc.?

I do agree with feral cats being trapped but definitely do not agree with releasing back into the natural habitat.

dresden8

Typical touchy feely, avoid the hard decision bullcrap we've come to expect from the Greens.

Deer Hunter DL

can you shoot these cats ???

thelurcher

Everyone was having a right laugh off that before the last election
I can't believe they still have it on their site :rolleyes: I was going to say how dumb people can be to vote the likes of them into government - but then we didn't did we.

They go on about foxes being 'stressed' when hunted - and then they want to put what is essentially a wild animal through that s**t just to be seen to be PC :mad: They should test the process by doing gormely first.

Any feral cat I've taken care of is usually in a fairly poor state anyway and are better off with a quick death.

tiny-nioclas

shoot them, minging things...........

NoNameRanger

Shoot feral cats, no better than mink! No law against it provided it's done humanely. Be sure its not a pet though.:eek::)

Rosahane

J.R. wrote: »

6. Domestic animals in Ireland
6.1 The party aims to introduce a countrywide neutering programme for stray cats and dogs. The situation, at present, has reached crisis point and needs to be addressed urgently. This would involve trapping of feral cats, transportation of these cats to and from the vets and release back into the natural habitat. These stray colonies should be monitored, ensuring that they have access to food and shelter, a basic requirement. This will dramatically improve the situation.

.

So what's the problem with this?

I'm sure that the "natural habitat" for these moggies is curled up in front of the AGA in the south Dublin home of the typical Green Party member. They could even bring them on Sunday walkies down to Wicklow where they can be left to guard the Prius against the depredations of the farmer whose field gate it's been left blocking

Mellor

NoNameRanger wrote: »

Shoot feral cats, no better than mink! No law against it provided it's done humanely. Be sure its not a pet though.:eek::)

Is there a list of mammels that are protected, does it extend past hares and deer?

NoNameRanger

Mellor wrote: »

Is there a list of mammels that are protected, does it extend past hares and deer?

As requested.

SPECIES OF PROTECTED WILD ANIMALS REFERRED TO IN SECTION 23 (8)
Pine Marten
Red Deer
Seals
Whales

Section 23 FIFTH SCHEDULE ANIMALS REFERRED TO IN SECTION 23

LAND MAMMALS
Badger
Bat species
Deer species
Hare species
Hedgehog
Otter
Pine Marten
Red Squirrel

MARINE MAMMALS
Dolphin species
Porpoise species
Seal species
Whale species

Trojan911

Shoot them, it is a kinder option. It costs a few cent to shoot one, where trapping, spaying, feeding, caring & then releasing back into the wild (only to risk being shot) would cost a small fortune per cat.

Mellor

Trojan, how is shooting them kinder, because it is cheaper?
I agree with shooting them, but not out of kindness, out of protection for young birds etc

alan123

This is the policy of the Keen Party.

6. Domestic animals in Ireland
6.1 The party aims to introduce a countrywide culling programme for stray cats and dogs. The situation, at present, has reached crisis point and needs to be addressed urgently. This would involve shooting of feral cats, transportation of these cats to and from the wheelie bin . These stray colonies should be monitored, and shot, ensuring that they have no access to food and shelter, a basic requirement. This will dramatically improve the situation.


Its all a matter of interpretation!!!!

Jonty

alan123 wrote: »

This is the policy of the Keen Party.

6. Domestic animals in Ireland
6.1 The party aims to introduce a countrywide culling programme for stray cats and dogs. The situation, at present, has reached crisis point and needs to be addressed urgently. This would involve shooting of feral cats, transportation of these cats to and from the wheelie bin . These stray colonies should be monitored, and shot, ensuring that they have no access to food and shelter, a basic requirement. This will dramatically improve the situation.


Its all a matter of interpretation!!!!

LOL:D:D

stevoman

can anyone please answer this question for me?

I have often come across cats whilst hunting. some people that i hunt with always shoot cats whilst out hunting due to the extensive damage that they do.

I for one have always been reluctent and have never shot one. my reason being that i am afraid that it could be somebodys pet and i would hate to see some old lady waiting for her pet to come home and it was me that shot it, as pets are companions and mean the world to people. (though i am not a lover myself, i respect other peoples feelings and love for them)

my question is how am i to know if a cat is wild and if a cat is not?

Trojan911

Mellor wrote: »

Trojan, how is shooting them kinder, because it is cheaper?

Yes, it is way cheaper & can prevent diseases. They are vermin just like the fox, mink, rabbit etc. Why should they be treated any different?

foxhunter

I keep a few pure breed bantam hens for setting eggs ,in the last year i've deffinitly disposed of six or seven feral cats and only 1 fox trying there luck,
so i have no sympathy for cat owners .I have three dogs and they are kennelled 24/7 other than hunting or walking .As far as i can see 90% of cats are feral.

fathersymes

I was in Tunisia a few years ago and noticed that most of the cats (without collars and bells!) had a triangular snip taken out of one of their ears, its apparently a government policy of neutering feral cats. Whether its intended as a rodent control measure in urban areas I don't know.

Trojan911

foxhunter wrote: »

I keep a few pure breed bantam hens for setting eggs ,in the last year i've deffinitly disposed of six or seven feral cats and only 1 fox trying there luck,
so i have no sympathy for cat owners .I have three dogs and they are kennelled 24/7 other than hunting or walking .As far as i can see 90% of cats are feral.

I have to agree with you on that I am sick of seeing cat poo in my garden or when they attack my rubbish bins. I invested in a catapault some time ago & reach into the freezer for a handful of frozen peas everytime I see one in the garden irrespective of what they are doing.

It is working at the moment. If I was not in a built up area I would be reaching for the .22, feral or not.

Mellor

Trojan911 wrote: »

Yes, it is way cheaper & can prevent diseases. They are vermin just like the fox, mink, rabbit etc. Why should they be treated any different?

You missed my point, I was trying to say that even though it is clearly cheaper, its in no way kinder. It has to be done, but I don't think kindness is a valis reason.

cavan shooter

Firstly, I have three cats (collars mind you) I have seen these peckers miles from my house. I have caught them in my larsen traps, My kids think the world of them, my wife curses them but gives out if I give them a swift ....push out of the way....

when I was a lad:D I also had a policy that any cat more than a field away from a house was fair game. I live at the start of a local road and it was adumping ground. I used to bring the cats to the pound and leave a donation, until the warden started to look at me as a dodgy fella dumping his cats. I started shooting them then,Three years ago I dispatched 12 cats in a year.
Maybe the owners should be treated as vermin??:mad: All the cats around my house were strays I kept 3 of them got them neutered etc...Cost me a fortune with worming et al..

J.R.

The stoat and shrew are also a protected species, if I'm not mistaken.

NoNameRanger wrote: »

As requested.

SPECIES OF PROTECTED WILD ANIMALS REFERRED TO IN SECTION 23 (8)
Pine Marten
Red Deer
Seals
Whales

Section 23 FIFTH SCHEDULE ANIMALS REFERRED TO IN SECTION 23

LAND MAMMALS
Badger
Bat species
Deer species
Hare species
Hedgehog
Otter
Pine Marten
Red Squirrel

MARINE MAMMALS
Dolphin species
Porpoise species
Seal species
Whale species

alan123

Damn it!! I was gearing up for some serious shrew hunting!

J.R.

As we are discussing the Green Party policies I think the policy on blood sports (last one) should also be taken into account, especially as the party are now in power.

Do they class shooting as BLOOD SPORTS?
Are they hinting at a total ban on hunting with weapons to manage animal populations (vermin???) ?

7. Blood sports


7.1 When in government, the Green Party will introduce legislation to end blood sports.

7.2 The Party will campaign for heavy penalties for organisers of, and participants in, illegal blood sports.

7.3 The Party encourages the alternatives of drag hunting and drag coursing.

7.4 The Party will campaign through the European Parliament for legislation, which will make it an offence to organise or participate in any illegal blood sport in Europe.

7.5 The Party seeks an end to the practice whereby Irish greyhounds are routinely and in large numbers exported to Spain, where they have been ill-treated, exploited and killed.

7.2 The Party will closely monitor, through the Animal Welfare Agency (AWA) , other sports which are based on the use of animals to ensure that no cruelty is taking place.

7.3 The Party calls for research into alternative methods of animal population management other than killing, and the implementation of these methods

cavan shooter

alan123 wrote: »

Damn it!! I was gearing up for some serious shrew hunting!

Lads, Becareful, shrews are serious dangerous animals, in Africa these critters are classed as deadly as Lions 223 minimum. Occasionally taken with flip flops but only if you sneak up on them:D

It wasn't me!

To be honest, the Greens are an empty force, with no real clout of any kind, so wouldn't worry about their crackpot policies.

johngalway

J.R. wrote: »

As we are discussing the Green Party policies I think the policy on blood sports (last one) should also be taken into account, especially as the party are now in power.

Do they class shooting as BLOOD SPORTS?
Are they hinting at a total ban on hunting with weapons to manage animal populations (vermin???) ?

7. Blood sports


7.1 When in government, the Green Party will introduce legislation to end blood sports.

7.2 The Party will campaign for heavy penalties for organisers of, and participants in, illegal blood sports.

7.3 The Party encourages the alternatives of drag hunting and drag coursing.

7.4 The Party will campaign through the European Parliament for legislation, which will make it an offence to organise or participate in any illegal blood sport in Europe.

7.5 The Party seeks an end to the practice whereby Irish greyhounds are routinely and in large numbers exported to Spain, where they have been ill-treated, exploited and killed.

7.2 The Party will closely monitor, through the Animal Welfare Agency (AWA) , other sports which are based on the use of animals to ensure that no cruelty is taking place.

7.3 The Party calls for research into alternative methods of animal population management other than killing, and the implementation of these methods

I don't know which this reminds me more of, Animal Farm or 1984, The Party will closely monitor... We'll ban (not in so many words)...

The Green Party? Like hell, not much of a Party they'll eventually ban so much there won't be a Party to go to!

Raving lunatics the lot of them.

Trojan911

Mellor wrote: »

You missed my point, I was trying to say that even though it is clearly cheaper, its in no way kinder. It has to be done, but I don't think kindness is a valis reason.

Ok, fair point.

Traumadoc

Mellor wrote: »

You missed my point, I was trying to say that even though it is clearly cheaper, its in no way kinder. It has to be done, but I don't think kindness is a valis reason.

Actually trapping a cat, bringing it to a vet, giving it ageneral anaesthetic , cutting off its balls, or performing a oophrectomy, then releasing it to carry on killing, ( but not breeding) could hardly be described as kinder, especially to wildlife (We have all seen how cats kill).

Mellor

Its not kind to wildlife, thats not the point.
Shooting the cat is not the kindest option, its the best option, but kindness is not a reason for this. Trapping a neutering the cat is certainly kinder to the cat than killing it (although it still isn't kind). There are alot of antis lurkering everywhere, I think that if shooters are blunt and honest there is not going to be any issue they could call us out on. Any type of shooting or hunting I do I have a valid reason, for food, crop control etc. I don't feel we should stick labels of "out of kindness" on this sort of thing, its not strictly true. Cats are shot because they do incredible damage to wildlife.

Traumadoc

Shooting the cat is the kindest option, trapping the cat is more traumatic, castrating the cat is traumatic, then releasing the cat to kill again and perhaps being trapped again is traumatic. And if its male it probably will make no difference to the breeding capacity of the population. A lot of pain, a waste of resources and little or no result.

Mellor

do you actually believe that,
I agree trapping and the rest is more traumatic, how does that meant less kind.
There are reason why its the better option. Again, I fail to see kindness having an impact here.

Under going Chemo is traumatic, so is recon surgery, organ removal etc. Are you suggesting that euthanasia is "kinder" here too. Its less traumatic, ends it quickly, but hardly kind.
(before someone points it out, euthanasia is sometimes the kinder option, I am refering to various traumatic situations a person young or old could be in)

I just think that these are rocky times for hunters, be need to be very careful with our public image. Right or wrong, the antis will try to spin it there way.

alan123

But what if we are seen to be providing a service! Culling feral cats at the request of the government to save the native wildlife. Its all about how you phrase it, say 'cull' or 'control' instead of 'shoot' or 'kill' and it makes it a very different discussion. All of a sudden we are the saviours of the wilderness!!!

Trojan911

Traumadoc wrote: »

Shooting the cat is the kindest option, trapping the cat is more traumatic, castrating the cat is traumatic, then releasing the cat to kill again and perhaps being trapped again is traumatic. And if its male it probably will make no difference to the breeding capacity of the population. A lot of pain, a waste of resources and little or no result.

That was my point exactly, but it was 01:44 when I last posted having just come in from work, brain was asleep & refused to work....

Traumadoc

I worked on numerous culling operations in Australia, the culling was advocated by enviromentalists.

http://rawstory.com/news/afp/Kill_all_wild_horses_in_Australian__01162008.html

Traumadoc

alan123 wrote: »

But what if we are seen to be providing a service! Culling feral cats at the request of the government to save the native wildlife. Its all about how you phrase it, say 'cull' or 'control' instead of 'shoot' or 'kill' and it makes it a very different discussion. All of a sudden we are the saviours of the wilderness!!!

I worked with an organisation that did this in Australia. Lots of good press and awards for services to wildlife.


http://www.hunt-cons.asn.au/index.html



http://www.ssaa.org.au/newssaa/noticeboardarchive/Gil-Hartwig-medal-winner.pdf

Terrier

I must say Feral cats are shot on sight. I put them right up there with Mink.
I even had strong words to neighbor about her pet cat lurking under my bird table. Let's just say the cat had a collar and a bell the next day.

I have caught numerous feral cats in my mink traps amazing how they can fit in !!

meathstevie

Value for money for the following goal : removal of the feral cat population.

Green Party : trapping, transporting, neutering : cost per cat, very low estimate including transport, wages, vet bill etc : 80 euro/cat and no immideate effect and ongoing destruction of other valuable wildlife.

Hunting included in general vermin hunting :
20c up to 2 Euro depending on the firearm and ammunition used out of the hunters pocket. And instantanious result.

The government has a defined ethos of value for money for their activities but clearly this doesn't apply to the Greens or does it only apply when closing beds in hospitals if the local waiting list isn't long enough compared to the national average ?

cooperjeff9

stevoman wrote: »

can anyone please answer this question for me?

I have often come across cats whilst hunting. some people that i hunt with always shoot cats whilst out hunting due to the extensive damage that they do.

I for one have always been reluctent and have never shot one. my reason being that i am afraid that it could be somebodys pet and i would hate to see some old lady waiting for her pet to come home and it was me that shot it, as pets are companions and mean the world to people. (though i am not a lover myself, i respect other peoples feelings and love for them)

my question is how am i to know if a cat is wild and if a cat is not?

If it does not have a collar it is feral.

alan123

I wont even ask (but Im thinking .270)... www.feralchildren.com

IDon'tKnow!

The Greens are full of S**t, last year for the election they sent more flyers to my home them any other party, they had alot of plastic posters on lap posts (plastic is one of the most expensive items to recycle based on Repak fees).

So they are just Green in name. They want everyone to be late for work by using public transport.

If out hunting and you come across these cats just shoot them if it safe and they don't have a collar. If a cat has a collar and you see it harming other wildlife them shoot it.

But they are in a power share so they will have some input in new laws.

johngalway

If I remember correctly the Green Party election posters were not recycleable at all? There was a small controversy about it.

Mellor

I believe none of them were.
The green party is the environ. friendly party.

Doesn't mean they are environ. friendly, just better than the rest.
Just like cars, no car is environmentally friendly, but some "green cars" are far better the the rest.


Anyway, I don't think this is a place for politics, I thought it was for the kitty shooting

meathstevie

The poster issue does matter. If they have more than just a green gob and a thou shalt not attitude they could have used for example a combination of plywood placards ( recyclable or reusable ), posters printed on recycled paper and wallpaper glue to put it together.

The average farmer practices more recycling and reusing in his day to day activity than any self proclaimed green pontificating genius can imagine. The modern farmer knows well enough that the land is a resource that can't just be exploited but has to be nurtured if there's to be long time viability in it.

One of the bigger cereal lads in my area for example has very sizeable belts of woodland running between his crop fields. Not a hair on his head considers taking it out. To him that woodland means a physical barrier between fields ( disease barrier ) , shelter from wind erosion and a great soak for excess water in wet periods without having to spend massive money on drains and ditch clearing. And to me and other lads it provides great pigeon shooting

Just to put a bit of an angle on things.