Wes Brown

monkey9

This bloke is an absolute joke. He is basically giving up his Utd career because he wants ten grand more than Utd are willing to give him. What makes this limited squad player think he is even worth what Utd are offering. He should count himself lucky. Players like him and Ashley Cole make me sick. He should take a leaf out of Paul Scholes' book. I don't think that bloke even has an agent. He's a quality player whom i'm sure would play for Utd for free, but probably realises how lucky he is to be actually paid for what he does. It's a pity Brown's contract runs out in the summer and not for a few years. Ferguson could just not play him at all. Not for the first team, reserves, youth team. No football at all for the remainder of his contract. Then he could see how happy his millions make him.

I will say in his defence...Rio Ferdinand earns £120,000 a week. And Brown has been very reliable this season. Hey, at least he hasnt come out with the "nearly crashed my car in shock" line.

Xavi6

Deleted User wrote: »

I will say in his defence...Rio Ferdinand earns £120,000 a week. And Brown has been very reliable this season. Hey, at least he hasnt come out with the "nearly crashed my car in shock" line.

Yeah I kinda have to agree. Fair enough he earns a lot already but if Rio is the benchmark and Brown feels he's been playing that well then why shouldn't he demand more? If one of the lads in the office was doing the same job as me and was on twice my wage I'd be fairly pissed.

monkey9

Yeah, but working in an office or playing Premiership football. There's a big difference.

Xavi6

monkey9 wrote: »

Yeah, but working in an office or playing Premiership football. There's a big difference.

In terms of career yes, in terms of principal no. Brown has played consistently well all year and feels he is worth more than what's on the table relative to the players around him. Nothing wrong with that.

monkey9

Xavi6 wrote: »

In terms of career yes, in terms of principal no. Brown has played consistently well all year and feels he is worth more than what's on the table relative to the players around him. Nothing wrong with that.

Well, when he finds himself at Newcastle next season because he wanted a few grand more a week, maybe he'll think that he should have signed the contract after all

Mr. Presentable

monkey9 wrote: »

He should take a leaf out of Paul Scholes' book. I don't think that bloke even has an agent.

That just means he's not handing 20% to a camelcoat. If anything that just makes him mean

monkey9

monkey9 wrote: »

Yeah, but working in an office or playing Premiership football. There's a big difference.

No. At the end of the day whatever way u look at it, an office or Premiership football, theyre both jobs. And as such if u do the same job as someone else, at a reasonably similar level, then you deserve an equal wage. Just because Rio cost 30 million to buy doesnt mean he should earn more than twice what Brown earns ya know?

monkey9

What difference does it make whether he makes a few grand more a week or not? Will he even notice the difference. He's been offered 45 grand a week to play for Utd. Jebus. And why compare him to Ferdinand? He's the main defender. He's first choice. Brown is just a squad player. I know he's been playing regularly of late, but only because Neville is injured.

mike65

Agents I think. I doubt Brown initiated this behaviour.

Mike.

ntlbell

He deserves more money playing for united shouldn't really come into it professional football is about making money first.

Mitch Connor

Brown has done ok this season, but no more then that. He has been a solid player at right back, but he is limited in what he offers United in comparrison to what we need. The fullbacks at United are extremely important to our shape and style - we need full backs who can off an attacking threat. Evra and Neville (when fit) do this, Silvestre can in fits, Brown doesn't really. He does try, but he simply can not cross the ball or beat a man, so his usefullness to us long term is questionable. If we were to sign a top right back in the summer, such as Bosingwa, (which we should do regardless of Brown) then I would be happy with Simpson as our back up right back. Brown can leave.

To make a call on whether the united contract offer is fair, I would have to know what he is being offered and what players like Silvestre, Fletcher and O'Shea are being paid.

A bigger worry is that apparently Evra wants 120k per week which would put equal with the other top players at the club. I think United are offering something like 70k which would put him on par with Vidic. Hopefully he'll sign an extension soon enough though.

monkey9

ntlbell wrote: »

He deserves more money playing for united shouldn't really come into it professional football is about making money first.

The fact he's playing for Utd is not the point. He's being offered 45 grand to play football. And you're point sums it up. It's all about money. Everything seems to be soul-less these days. I realise he still has to make a living, but like i said earlier, does a few grand mean so much to him?

monkey9

monkey9 wrote: »

What difference does it make whether he makes a few grand more a week or not? Will he even notice the difference. He's been offered 45 grand a week to play for Utd. Jebus. And why compare him to Ferdinand? He's the main defender. He's first choice. Brown is just a squad player. I know he's been playing regularly of late, but only because Neville is injured.

You're missing my point. This season everyone knows that Uniteds best back 4 is Brown-Rio-Vidic-Evra. That 4 as a unit does very well and has the best defensive record in the league. As such is it fair to say that one of them should get 120 grand and the other 45?

As for the "whats a few grand more" argument, would YOU settle for 60 quid a week less in your job cos "sure whats an extra 60"?? I know its not relative in the same sense cos they earn a lot more but the principle is the same.


And finally, footballers generally have the intelligence level of a donut since most of them drop out of school to go focus on their football career. There are exceptions to the rule but for the most part this is tha case. As such, once theyre retired at the average age of say 34, their earning rapidly declines, unless they go into management but in all fairness, can u see Wes Brown being the next Mark Hughes? I cant. Theyre certainly not gonna become stockbrokers. Hence its in his best interest to make as much as possible now and invest it, dont you think?? So why shoudnt he try to get as much as he can?

Tauren

Tauren wrote: »

Brown has done ok this season, but no more then that. He has been a solid player at right back, but he is limited in what he offers United in comparrison to what we need. The fullbacks at United are extremely important to our shape and style - we need full backs who can off an attacking threat. Evra and Neville (when fit) do this, Silvestre can in fits, Brown doesn't really. He does try, but he simply can not cross the ball or beat a man, so his usefullness to us long term is questionable. If we were to sign a top right back in the summer, such as Bosingwa, (which we should do regardless of Brown) then I would be happy with Simpson as our back up right back. Brown can leave.

To make a call on whether the united contract offer is fair, I would have to know what he is being offered and what players like Silvestre, Fletcher and O'Shea are being paid.

A bigger worry is that apparently Evra wants 120k per week which would put equal with the other top players at the club. I think United are offering something like 70k which would put him on par with Vidic. Hopefully he'll sign an extension soon enough though.

I actually agree with this but thats not the point. He has performed well in defence, just like Rio. Rio offers about as much as Brown does going forward. Its in Browns best interest to get the deal thats best for him. Everyone does it in every walk of life. Yes it fuels the "money ruining football" argument but from browns perspective he needs to maximise his earnings.

Evra is one of our key players imo. Without him I dont think we're the same team since he is effectively a second left winger and crucial attacker whilst also being a key defender.

monkey9

Yeah, i know people try to get the best deal. When you're talking about being paid thousands and thousands a week though, it all just blends into one big Euro sign.
I think i could survive on 45 grand a week.

Mitch Connor

Deleted User wrote: »

I actually agree with this but thats not the point. He has performed well in defence, just like Rio. Rio offers about as much as Brown does going forward. Its in Browns best interest to get the deal thats best for him. Everyone does it in every walk of life. Yes it fuels the "money ruining football" argument but from browns perspective he needs to maximise his earnings.

Evra is one of our key players imo. Without him I dont think we're the same team since he is effectively a second left winger and crucial attacker whilst also being a key defender.

I have no real problem with Brown wanting more, if he can get it then fair play to him and good luck. As long as he deosn't end up going to Liverpool i'd not be booing him on his return to OT.

Brown may offer the same as Rio forward (I disagree with this) but you are not comparing like-with-like. As a centre back 90% of Rio's game is about defending. As a full back, at united, about 50% of Browns game is about going forward and attacking. The assumption that he offers the same as Rio would point to the fact that Brown isn't doing all he needs to do for us.

My main issue with giving him a massive contract would be that we should be getting a top attacking full back in the summer (Bosingwa and Lahm linked) and thus Brown would be second choice at best again - should a second choice squad player be one of the highest paid players at the club? His contract should reflect his status in the squad. 50k would put him in the upper-middle section of the squad, which is about right imo. His position in the squad and ability does not merit parity with Vidic or Evra, let alone Rio.

Spud83

Look he is a squad player regardless of what has happened this season. SAF will be buying a RB in the summer, one who will come along and prob walk into Browns place.

Ferguson is not going to offer Brown big money when he knows he is going to be thrown on the bench, and let’s face it O'Shea will get on the bench more often because he can play all across the back four. Even if the 7 subs rule comes in I can see the other two places being filled with younger lads (Pique and Wellbeck)

Good luck to the lad and I hope that he does get the money he wants but not at Utd, he can go to some mid table/relegation fodder team and be shown up as the half ass defender he is. He has been a good servant to us but because he is now getting a run in the first team he seems to be getting a bit ahead of himself.

Mitch Connor

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

Look he is a squad player regardless of what has happened this season. SAF will be buying a RB in the summer, one who will come along and prob walk into Browns place.

Ferguson is not going to offer Brown big money when he knows he is going to be thrown on the bench, and let’s face it O'Shea will get on the bench more often because he can play all across the back four. Even if the 7 subs rule comes in I can see the other two places being filled with younger lads (Pique and Wellbeck)

Good luck to the lad and I hope that he does get the money he wants but not at Utd, he can go to some mid table/relegation fodder team and be shown up as the half ass defender he is. He has been a good servant to us but because he is now getting a run in the first team he seems to be getting a bit ahead of himself.

Think you are a bit harsh on him there with the half assed comment. While i don't think he walk into the starting line-up of the top 4/5/6 sides, he would be a top asset for most sides in the premier league.

BaZmO*

mike65 wrote: »

Agents I think. I doubt Brown initiated this behaviour.

Yeah definitely his agent, Ferguson had a rant about it yesterday.

Personally I don't see the problem with players fighting their corner for as much money as they can get, it is a job after all and it's not as if the clubs are going to keep paying their wages if they get a serious injury and have to retire.

event

wes brown is currently on at £16,000 pay as you play deal

the club shafted him last time over his contract, as he was injured a lot.
He has been very good so far this year and this will be his last contract

its also called negotiating, thats generally what happens with contracts.

to compare him to ashley cole is laughable

monkey9

event wrote: »

wes brown is currently on at £16,000 pay as you play deal

the club shafted him last time over his contract, as he was injured a lot.
He has been very good so far this year and this will be his last contract

its also called negotiating, thats generally what happens with contracts.

to compare him to ashley cole is laughable

Well, if he ends up leaving Utd cos they 'only' offered him 45 grand, but he wanted more, then it's not that laughable.

Tauren

Tauren wrote: »

I have no real problem with Brown wanting more, if he can get it then fair play to him and good luck. As long as he deosn't end up going to Liverpool i'd not be booing him on his return to OT.

Brown may offer the same as Rio forward (I disagree with this) but you are not comparing like-with-like. As a centre back 90% of Rio's game is about defending. As a full back, at united, about 50% of Browns game is about going forward and attacking. The assumption that he offers the same as Rio would point to the fact that Brown isn't doing all he needs to do for us.

My main issue with giving him a massive contract would be that we should be getting a top attacking full back in the summer (Bosingwa and Lahm linked) and thus Brown would be second choice at best again - should a second choice squad player be one of the highest paid players at the club? His contract should reflect his status in the squad. 50k would put him in the upper-middle section of the squad, which is about right imo. His position in the squad and ability does not merit parity with Vidic or Evra, let alone Rio.

Thats a good point. But what im saying is he's part of the back 4 unit with the best defensive record in the league and he's looking at a guy beside him earning 2.6 times the amount he is for contributing to the best defence in the league. And this season he has been a first teamer due to injury but he ahsnt let himself down at all.

Im not even sure that Id pay him what he's asking for personally but to linch him for asking for it and calling him an "absolute joke" is a tad excessive in this situation IMO.

event

event wrote: »

wes brown is currently on at £16,000 pay as you play deal

the club shafted him last time over his contract, as he was injured a lot.
He has been very good so far this year and this will be his last contract

its also called negotiating, thats generally what happens with contracts.

to compare him to ashley cole is laughable

I was gonna use this as part of my argument but I couldnt remember his wage. I do remember he got shafter tho. I mean, pay as you play...he gets injured/Neville comes back....and he's not earning so much now is he. And he has to retire on his next contract.

ntlbell

monkey9 wrote: »

The fact he's playing for Utd is not the point. He's being offered 45 grand to play football. And you're point sums it up. It's all about money. Everything seems to be soul-less these days. I realise he still has to make a living, but like i said earlier, does a few grand mean so much to him?

Yes that's why it's called "professional" football which means money.

If you don't like it go and watch the local pub team.

He is a professional any professional in any career should look for the best deal he can get especially when he will only have it till mid 30's if he's lucky.

Why do you think United or any team should mean more to him than money?

It's his job.

Spud83

Tauren wrote: »

Think you are a bit harsh on him there with the half assed comment. While i don't think he walk into the starting line-up of the top 4/5/6 sides, he would be a top asset for most sides in the premier league.

I'm not as convinced, I think he would get shown up a lot more if he was playing in a weaker defence. Unless he leaves we will never know, but that is my opinon.

monkey9

monkey9 wrote: »

The fact he's playing for Utd is not the point. He's being offered 45 grand to play football. And you're point sums it up. It's all about money. Everything seems to be soul-less these days. I realise he still has to make a living, but like i said earlier, does a few grand mean so much to him?

And someone else get 500 quid a week to type.


And if there are 4 typists all doing the typing work in a company is it fair that one would get 2.66 times what another gets even though theyre not typing 2.66 times as fast and theyre working the same hours?

Of course its all about money. Soccer is a professional sport get over it. People arent playing for the likes of Cheslea, Liverpool, United and Arsenal anymore for love. If love of the club was all that mattered then Fabregas would be at Barca, Torres at Athletico, Rooney at Everton, Lampard at West Ham etc. I am aware that some of those players (not Fabregas) left to pursue trophies but dont fool yourself that money wasnt a factor and isnt the primary motivation for many many many footballs.

LuckyLloyd

monkey9 wrote: »

Yeah, i know people try to get the best deal. When you're talking about being paid thousands and thousands a week though, it all just blends into one big Euro sign.
I think i could survive on 45 grand a week.

The value of money is a concept that is entirely relative. In one way it is an extra 10k. But in another more pertinent way it is an extra 22% on top of his proposed deal. He is asking for 20% extra because he believes he is worth it or he can command it elsewhere.

45k does not stand alone as an amount of money that means the exact same thing to you as it does to me or Wes Brown. You think, "wow 45k" because it is x% of your net worth. Wes Brown thinks something different about it because it is y% of his net worth and, maybe more crucially, z% of the net worth he wished to have obtained by the end of his limited career as a professional athlete.

I feel very safe in assuming that y and z are >>>>>>>>>>>> x. Footballers exist in a different sphere to me and you. Accept it. And business will always be business. That needs to be accepted too - even in sport.

LuckyLloyd

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The value of money is a concept that is entirely relative. In one way it is an extra 10k. But in another more pertinent way it is an extra 22% on top of his proposed deal. He is asking for 20% extra because he believes he is worth it or he can command it elsewhere.

45k does not stand alone as an amount of money that means the exact same thing to you as it does to me or Wes Brown. You think, "wow 45k" because it is x% of your net worth. Wes Brown thinks something different about it because it is y% of his net worth and, maybe more crucially, z% of the net worth he wished to have obtained by the end of his limited career as a professional athlete.

I feel very safe in assuming that y and z are >>>>>>>>>>>> x. Footballers exist in a different sphere to me and you. Accept it. And business will always be business. That needs to be accepted too - even in sport.

Excellent post. QFT

lordgoat

I can see where he is coming from however, he has been the poorest player in the united team this season, granted he's not playing in his preferred position but defensively he is always out of position, gets dragged into the centre way too easily, ball watches and offers nothing going forward, i've yet to see him put in a good cross.

A right back is a priorioty this summer and i don't think he'll be missed. As long as we get someone in and hold onto Pique no sleep will be lost by anyone.

Spud83

lordgoat wrote: »

A right back is a priorioty this summer and i don't think he'll be missed. As long as we get someone in and hold onto Pique no sleep will be lost by anyone.

Expcept by Wes who will automatically realise once he has signed for his new club. "Oh **** does this mean I have to play against Ronaldo, Rooney, and Tevez next year?"

ntlbell

lordgoat wrote: »

I can see where he is coming from however, he has been the poorest player in the united team this season, granted he's not playing in his preferred position but defensively he is always out of position, gets dragged into the centre way too easily, ball watches and offers nothing going forward, i've yet to see him put in a good cross.

A right back is a priorioty this summer and i don't think he'll be missed. As long as we get someone in and hold onto Pique no sleep will be lost by anyone.

I don't really see what this has got to do with anything.

He's selected by one of if not the best manager in the world to play in one of the best defenses in the world.

If he can do the job or not is a different matter.

monkey9

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

Expcept by Wes who will automatically realise once he has signed for his new club. "Oh **** does this mean I have to play against Ronaldo, Rooney, and Tevez next year?"

Sure he won't mind that seeing as he'll have a few extra grand in the bank. The money will make defeat acceptable

ntlbell

monkey9 wrote: »

Sure he won't mind that seeing as he'll have a few extra grand in the bank. The money will make defeat acceptable

Now you understand.

Well done.

Guy:Incognito

monkey9 wrote: »

The fact he's playing for Utd is not the point. He's being offered 45 grand to play football. And you're point sums it up. It's all about money. Everything seems to be soul-less these days. I realise he still has to make a living, but like i said earlier, does a few grand mean so much to him?

So why not start a campaign and get all the players onside for a wage cap. He's entitled to ask for what he thinks he's worth. Why not slate other players for getting way over the odds?

MrJoeSoap

Especially for the people arguing over whether the few extra grand a week makes a difference...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdcJSsRfL8s

1:30 onwards.

BaZmO*

Not sure what point your making there. It's very easy to "take a hit for the team" when you're on a $60 million contract and have your choice of lucrative endorsement contracts.

MrJoeSoap

BaZmO* wrote: »

Not sure what point your making there. It's very easy to "take a hit for the team" when you're on a $60 million contract and a choice of endorsement contracts.

Not if you're Wes Brown apparently. Not that he's on a $60m contract but he's still gotta be on close to £2.5m STG a year which isn't too far off.

Anyway my main point from that video was that its important for these guys to look at where they've come from, rather than where they are.

monkey9

Stekelly wrote: »

So why not start a campaign and get all the players onside for a wage cap. He's entitled to ask for what he thinks he's worth. Why not slate other players for getting way over the odds?

Well, he can chance his arm if he wants. My point is leaving Utd over the sake of a few grand is ridiculous if that what it comes to. And if he thinks he's worth 55 grand a week, then he must be deluded

MrJoeSoap

monkey9 wrote: »

Well, he can chance his arm if he wants. My point is leaving Utd over the sake of a few grand is ridiculous if that what it comes to. And if he thinks he's worth 55 grand a week, then he must be deluded

If Rio Ferdinand is worth his weekly wage (plus the insane fee United paid for him) then Brown is worth every cent of £55k a week.

LuckyLloyd

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

If Rio Ferdinand is worth his weekly wage (plus the insane fee United paid for him) then Brown is worth every cent of £55k a week.

.

kraggy

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

Not if you're Wes Brown apparently. Not that he's on a $60m contract but he's still gotta be on close to £2.5m STG a year which isn't too far off.

Anyway my main point from that video was that its important for these guys to look at where they've come from, rather than where they are.

According to the figures above, he's currently on approx £832,000 a year.

Which is nowhere near $60m

MrJoeSoap

kraggy wrote: »

According to the figures above, he's currently on approx £832,000 a year.

According to those same figures, thats what he gets without even playing.

$60m = £40m. Divide that by ten and you get £4m a year. Brown earns roughly £2-£2.5m a year I'd say, he'd definitely get that and more on his next contract. Not an absolutely monstrous difference, especially considering Brady is the highest profile player in his sport.

Anyway, my point wasn't anything to do with Brady's contract, it was to do with the fact that he's grounded and isn't greedy.

BaZmO*

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

Anyway, my point wasn't anything to do with Brady's contract, it was to do with the fact that he's grounded and isn't greedy.

How do you know? Where you there at his contract negotiations?

MrJoeSoap

BaZmO* wrote: »

How do you know? Where you there at his contract negotiations?

Meh, get back to me when you're not so cynical. Looks pretty grounded to me.

BaZmO*

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

Meh, get back to me when you're not so cynical. Looks pretty grounded to me.

I'm not being cynical, I'm only saying that you don't know how his contract was negotiated. You only know how Brown's negotiations are going because Fergie decided to speak out about it.

Guy:Incognito

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

Anyway my main point from that video was that its important for these guys to look at where they've come from, rather than where they are.

TBH, I'd say the most important thing o look at is where they are going. Say an average retirement age of 35. That leaves an awfull lot of years. Theres ot an endless supply of media/management jobs. Makle hay while the sun shines as the saying goes.


Oh and £832k a year isnt amazing money by todays standards. £1m is less than £20,000 a week.

MrJoeSoap

Stekelly wrote: »

TBH, I'd say the most important thing o look at is where they are going. Say an average retirement age of 35. That leaves an awfull lot of years. Theres ot an endless supply of media/management jobs. Makle hay while the sun shines as the saying goes.


Oh and £832k a year isnt amazing money bu todays standards. £1m is £20,000 a week.

I don't know where this £832k figure is coming from. Someone posted (without a link) that he was getting £16k a week pay-as-you-play (which in itself suggests 16k is an absolute base rate).

I don't know exactly what "todays standards" are but to earn £20 odd million in a fifteen year(ish) career is absolutely mental by my standards.

Guy:Incognito

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

I don't know where this £832k figure is coming from. Someone posted (without a link) that he was getting £16k a week pay-as-you-play (which in itself suggests 16k is an absolute base rate).

I don't know exactly what "todays standards" are but to earn £20 odd million in a fifteen year(ish) career is absolutely mental by my standards.

Todays standards being todays football standards. Then you have to factor in that the club he is with is one of the top clubs in the world and winning things. Compared to others I'd say it's not great money.

I'd imagine if you had a list of the first teamers at the top 5 or 6 clubs from this season, he'd be fairly far down it. Fair enough reason to be upset.

If it's a pay as you play deal (cant imagine it is) it means heonly gets paid when he plays. If it's as I reckon , his basic. Thats what it is, the amount he can rely on. If he doesnt get a game he doesnt get an appearance fee etc.

MrJoeSoap

Stekelly wrote: »

Todays standards being todays fotball standards. Then you have to factor in that the club he is with is one of the top clubs in the world nd winnig things. Compared to others I'd say it's not great money.

I'd imagine if you had a list of the first teamers at teh top 5 or 6 clubs from this season, he'd be fairly far down it. Fair enough reason to be upset.

Again, this is based on an unsourced quote on a messageboard that we are assuming he's on £16k a week. Pinch of salt needed.

I completely agree that compared to other players he is getting a raw deal, but I think thats more to do with the fact that they are overpaid rather than him being underpaid.

Guy:Incognito

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

I completely agree that compared to other players he is getting a raw deal, but I think thats more to do with the fact that they are overpaid rather than him being underpaid.

Yeah but if everyone is being overpaid, that becomes the norm. It's the ones who are still on low wages that are getting underpaid.

Either way, I doubt it gives him much comfort whichever way it's worded.:)