children searched by Garda

donzo112

My son came in last night and informed us that as he and his friends (aged 14 16 and 17) were walking down the street. A Garda stopped them and asked them to empty there pockets. they did as they were asked and he then proceeded to frisk them. These boys are well behaved boys who are not known to the garda and have never been in any trouble what so ever. Do an Garda have the right to stop and search minors without justification. In my opinion it is easy to see why young people these days have little respect for the guards.

Gordon

This isn't a PI.

Not sure if this forum is better, but it was suggested by esel as a possible forum for the topic.

Chucky the tree

donzo112 wrote: »

My son came in last night and informed us that as he and his friends (aged 14 16 and 17) were walking down the street. A Garda stopped them and asked them to empty there pockets. they did as they were asked and he then proceeded to frisk them. These boys are well behaved boys who are not known to the garda and have never been in any trouble what so ever. Do an Garda have the right to stop and search minors without justification. In my opinion it is easy to see why young people these days have little respect for the guards.

lol

lorweld

I don't know if its allowed to be done, but while waiting for a bus one day at the square in Tallaght I saw guards frisking three young fellas aged about 8 and i wondered the same does a parent not have to be present?( granted the three young fellas i saw might be little pups but anyway...)

Shield

I'm watching this one carefully people.

The question seems to be related to the 'Stop & Search' powers of the GS.

Please can we have on-topic answers?

spurious

In certain parts of town this (and much worse) is a common occurrence. Perhaps it was the first time the OP came across it.

Esel

donzo112 wrote: »

Do an Garda have the right to stop and search minors without justification.

They certainly have the right to stop and search (drugs law I think?), but presumably they have to have formed a reasonable suspicion first. Proving or disproving this would be next to impossible imo. It does happen a lot. Apart from drugs, people can be found in possession of alcohol, knives etc.

You (or your son and his friends) should not feel badly done by. Imagine the scenario where the Gardai had just confiscated a knife from someone in another group around the corner, who your son and his friends were just about to encounter. You'd be grateful for this kind of Garda activity then.

lorweld

Good point esel!

donzo112

lorweld wrote: »

Good point esel!

I take your point Esel but if it was me personally walking down the road and I was stopped and searched for no apparent reason, I would be very annoyed and I think most people would.

donzo112

lorweld wrote: »

I don't know if its allowed to be done, but while waiting for a bus one day at the square in Tallaght I saw guards frisking three young fellas aged about 8 and i wondered the same does a parent not have to be present?( granted the three young fellas i saw might be little pups but anyway...)

I advised him that if that happened again that he was to tell the Garda that he wanted to speak to me first. Was I wrong in giving this advise?

cushtac

donzo112 wrote: »

I advised him that if that happened again that he was to tell the Garda that he wanted to speak to me first. Was I wrong in giving this advise?

If he says that he'll end up being brought to the station for the search and it ends up taking much longer, plus you'll be going to the station after him.

Esel

donzo112 wrote: »

I advised him that if that happened again that he was to tell the Garda that he wanted to speak to me first. Was I wrong in giving this advise?

I would think that was not the best advice. As the Gardaí are entitled to search, it's probably easiest to just comply. Also, as he probably will be seen by the same Gardaí again (same area etc), they will more than likely not bother searching him repeatedly to no avail.

I have seen these searches happening often, and tbh I don't think any less of the kids I see being searched.

Regarding your point of being annoyed if it happened to you personally, I think you can insist on being brought to the station to be searched. Not sure if this is true, though. Maybe one of the knowledgeable posters here could give us the facts on this?

I suppose if it happened to me, I might ask the Garda under what law he was proposing to search me and what opinion he had formed. If doing this, I would also make a note of their number, and if I could I would ask a passerby to witness the event and get their name and address for reference, and would also offer to accompany the Garda to the station to be searched in private (if this applies - see above).

I agree with your original point about how this kind of treatment would not endear young people to the Gardaí.

cushtac

esel wrote: »

I suppose if it happened to me, I might ask the Garda under what law he was proposing to search me and what opinion he had formed. If doing this, I would also make a note of their number, and if I could I would ask a passerby to witness the event and get their name and address for reference, and would also offer to accompany the Garda to the station to be searched in private (if this applies - see above)

The Garda will tell you what power he is using and what his number is, but he's under no obligation to tell you why he's formed his opinion. If you try to involve anyone else the Garda is likely to arrest you & take you to the station for the purposes of the search.

Esel

cushtac wrote: »

If you try to involve anyone else the Garda is likely to arrest you & take you to the station for the purposes of the search.

Can't see how asking a person to observe is 'involving' them. I wouldn't be asking them to intervene in any way. Do you seriously think I could be arrested for doing this? What reason would the Garda have?

Also, I would already have offered to accompany the Garda to the station! Do you know if this in itself is in order?

Run_to_da_hills

I think cops tend to think that childern will not lodge a complaint. They may use the miss use of drugs act just as an excuse to search them for ID. As yet there is no manditory requirement for minors to carry any form of ID.

Nightwish

When my brother was 10 he was stopped by a squad car while walking to his friends house. One cop got out and searched him. Needless to say the poor kid was stunned and got such a fright he started crying. The guard said he was looking for drugs, my brother in his innocence said "I dont know what drugs look like". He didnt know to ask for a badge number or anything so when my mother made a complaint, the sergeant on duty said he couldnt do anything about it.

I thought to search a minor, the parents have to be present?

Nothingcompares

Nightwish wrote: »

When my brother was 10 he was stopped by a squad car while walking to his friends house. One cop got out and searched him. Needless to say the poor kid was stunned and got such a fright he started crying. The guard said he was looking for drugs, my brother in his innocence said "I dont know what drugs look like". He didnt know to ask for a badge number or anything so when my mother made a complaint, the sergeant on duty said he couldnt do anything about it.

I thought to search a minor, the parents have to be present?

if unaccompanied children were immune to searching surely they'd be abused by drug dealers and criminals even more.

Yakult

me and my mates (aging from 16-18) we sitting a wall and a guada car pulls up. He takes all our names, adress and phone numbers. We were like "Wha?" so I asked him why he was taking our names and he pointed at the word Garda on hes jacket and goes "see this, I dont need to answer you" and then I asked it again and he goes "ask once more and I will take you up the station"

I think its stupid that he didnt even tell us why, and we didnt even do anything.

podge79

I've been stopped numerous times at airports, train stations across UK and Europe and searched just because I was travelling on my own.

Maybe they had a justification and your son didnt tell you or didnt let on to know. Now I'm not saying that your sons and his friends did anything wrong - I'm just saying that kids/teens, as we all do, have a tendancy to leave out certain points when relating somthing that happened to us. I was under the impression that in the case of a child a parent/guardian had to be present when/if a formal interview was been held or if the child was been charged or cautioned.

Shield

Locked. Too much venting. Only goes downhill from here. Sorry OP, might be better to ask at your local station instead.

Turner

Thread locked but just to clear a few things up..

donzo112 wrote: »

Do an Garda have the right to stop and search minors without justification.

Without justification, No

If the Garda has reasonable suspicion they have drugs on them, Yes.

If the child is part of a group and the garda thinks a breach of the peace may occur, has occurred or anybody has a weapon he may search all the children or adults. (Firearms and offensive weapons act 1990)

Does an parent have to be there? No

Does a parent have to be there at the station to oversee a further search? No

Does a parent have to be there if the child is being questioned on video? Yes If a parent is not available the gards will get a responsible adult (normally fireman, priest, peace commissioner or teacher who is seperate from the investigation to sit in on the interview)