Ireland v Scotland 6N 5pm

Diarmuid

markk06 wrote: »

How do you figure?? O'Sullivan dropped him from the wing and his replacement scored two tries. Looks to me like Eddie got it right.

Are you joking? EOS was forced pick the team every second commentator has been calling for all season, Ireland perform well and now EOS is being credited with "getting it right"?

dc69

Stev_o wrote: »

Tbh the logic of some people here is crazy. This whole "Oh Murphy did great because Scots were poor and didnt have a defence etc etc" By that logic BOD should have scored 10 tries! Look the backline wasnt particularly great with the exception of probably ROG Murphy and Trimble. Bowe took his two tries well but hardly got involved, Kearney showed defensively that he is safe. But other then that lads they did feck all.


I honestly think BOD should call it a day soon enough the fact his he failed to outplay a Winger who has hardly any experience in OC. He did one good thing and that was a lovely floated pass to Kearney but other then that he was useless. Trimble did extremely well involved in two tries and his breaking of the gain line was spot on.

Note. Did anyone else think it was extremely weird that ROG was getting Kearney to clear the lines kicking to the left hand side of the pitch. Why would you get a left footed kicker to kick left??? Madness

as for the bod thing,your talking rubbish,he does so much all around the pitch you dont see.
the kearney question i dont understand,if he is kicking left it is because if he kicked right the scots can take a quick throw

Stev_o

dc69 wrote: »

as for the bod thing,your talking rubbish,he does so much all around the pitch you dont see.
the kearney question i dont understand,if he is kicking left it is because if he kicked right the scots can take a quick throw

Really? As a OC what is he providing expect for defence? As i pointed out his only highlight he had was a wonderful pass to Kearney but if you expect your OC to be great just because he can tackle well dont expect him scoring any time soon.

phog

Stev_o wrote: »

Really? As a OC what is he providing expect for defence? As i pointed out his only highlight he had was a wonderful pass to Kearney but if you expect your OC to be great just because he can tackle well dont expect him scoring any time soon.

My point exactly - we need an OC than can make breaks as well as defend - I'm not sure we have anyone better but BOD is not the same BOD he a few years back. Our attacking options are limited and I think that's one of the reasons we say ROG using the high balls yesterday - he knew he had Murphy to chase them down.

jackbhoy

Stev_o wrote: »

Really? As a OC what is he providing expect for defence? As i pointed out his only highlight he had was a wonderful pass to Kearney but if you expect your OC to be great just because he can tackle well dont expect him scoring any time soon.

By the standard he set himself in last 5 years he's not playing particularly well but to say he should call it a day is ridiculous. Defence is an important part of playing centre as every team will target midfield weakness, this aspect shouldn't be just dismissed. Aside from that he still offers great link play and is at centre, excuse the pun, of a lot of the good back play of last 2 games. He was also Irelands best player (of bad lot) at the WC so dunno what you are basing your opinion on. His form for Leinster has been poor but the backs haven't played consistently well all season and he was carrying injuries for most of HC games.
I think his contribution and importance to Ireland will be shown when he does retire and you'll see how difficult it is to replace a player of his class.

phog

jackbhoy wrote: »

In my experience Drico does not call lineouts. For Leinster, he might give an input but its usually Cullen/Mal as Lockes that will make call, be surprised if DOC/MOD didn't call most of them yesterday, if they didn't then they should have, they have got to take on their share of leadership in the pack too. Agree that the buck rests with Jackman but the lineout didn't function fantastically well in WC when our first choice of DOC/POC and Flannery were involved so maybe they need to work on some simpler, easier to execute routines.

Its funny on this forum that people from Munster will always criticise Leinster players and vice versa, people from all sides hammer Murphy but very few say anything bad about their own provinces players. As a Leinster supporter I'd love to see Jackman play well for Ireland, and he hasn't done as bad as some on here say but think Flannery is more consistent if a little less effective as ball carrier, and should get his place back when ready.
It makes me laugh to read some comments like "if Dempsey played if would've been sh!te" or like above where MAL/Drico/Jackman are ones controlling lienout and by default must be responsible for it not functioning, I mean back some of these stupid statements up with examples/facts ffs!

I think you may find that podge_irl was referring to Mick O'Driscoll and not "Drico" when he mentioned who he thought was making the call for the Irish Lineouts. Maybe if you took of your blue tinted glasses you might see a few other players on the Irish team.:D

dc69

phog wrote: »

My point exactly - we need an OC than can make breaks as well as defend - I'm not sure we have anyone better but BOD is not the same BOD he a few years back. Our attacking options are limited and I think that's one of the reasons we say ROG using the high balls yesterday - he knew he had Murphy to chase them down.

the only other 13 we could use is fitzgerald,who i think will be a brilliant 13 in the future(needs to work on defence).with eddie at the helm though,he wont be brought in till bod is on his last legs,he is also cuting it close size wise but im sure in a few years he will be ready

i dont like this bashing of bod 1 bit,as an op said,we will appreciate him when hes gone.he is the only irish player in the last 20 years or so that was described as the best player in the world or best centre in the world,a few years ago Ma Nonu described him as "the best centre in the world for the last 5 years" and many journalists and players alike said he would walk onto any team in the world inc all blacks

but yet some on here want him dropped,ridiculous

also why was ogara kicking to touch for about 20 mins yesterday when we had scots on the back foot,now we have no chance of winning the championship because of our lack of tries/points,stupidity at the highest level.what would it have mattered if the scots had scored again and we scored 2 more tries?nothing well worth the risk

Leon11

Stev_o wrote: »

Eh?? Right footed kickers always get better distance when kicking to the left and opposite for left footed kickers

The reason for it is that it's easier to kick in motion off your left foot to the left and vice versa. If O Gara was to do it in full flight he may be more prone to miskicking the ball.

jayteecork

Must say I find all this nonsense about dropping BOD completely ridicolous.
He doesn't make all many line breaks as before because he is man marked.
He always has 2-3 defenders on him which is great because it creates space for those outside him, as evidenced by the great showing of the back 3 yesterday.
Plus his pass for Kearney was sublime.
And as pointed out his work rate in defense is one of the best in the world for a centre, perhaps only rivalled by Rua Tipoki right now. His willingness to make a nuisance of himself and put his body on the line during ruck-time was epitomized
on the Lions Tour when 2 New Zeland brutes decided to maim the poor fcuker.

Lastly we have absolutely no alternative. Tipoki of course isn't eligibile.
Who else? Horgan? - Donkey. Gavin Duffy - offers nothing. Barry Murphy - turned out not as good as everyone said.

jackbhoy

phog wrote: »

I think you may find that podge_irl was referring to Mick O'Driscoll and not "Drico" when he mentioned who he thought was making the call for the Irish Lineouts. Maybe if you took of your blue tinted glasses you might see a few other players on the Irish team.:D

Apologies, not used to having 2 O'Driscolls in team, given ones been ever present for 8 years and Mick hasn't got much of a sniff I thought he meant Drico. It never crossed my mind than MOD would make all lineout calls, being new to pack/team and I couldn't see who was calling them from nosebleeds!!

phog

dc69 wrote: »

the only other 13 we could use is fitzgerald,who i think will be a brilliant 13 in the future(needs to work on defence).with eddie at the helm though,he wont be brought in till bod is on his last legs,he is also cuting it close size wise but im sure in a few years he will be ready

i dont like this bashing of bod 1 bit,as an op said,we will appreciate him when hes gone.he is the only irish player in the last 20 years or so that was described as the best player in the world or best centre in the world,a few years ago Ma Nonu described him as "the best centre in the world for the last 5 years" and many journalists and players alike said he would walk onto any team in the world inc all blacks

but yet some on here want him dropped,ridiculous

also why was ogara kicking to touch for about 20 mins yesterday when we had scots on the back foot,now we have no chance of winning the championship because of our lack of tries/points,stupidity at the highest level.what would it have mattered if the scots had scored again and we scored 2 more tries?nothing well worth the risk

How many balls did ROG kick to touch? What period of 20 minutes are you referring to? I only saw the game once but I don't recall too many kicks to touch in any given period of time. Scotland owned the ball in the 1st half and in the second we scored 2 tries while ROG was on the field - do you really think he wasted that much ball?

Crash

There's one simple fact about BOD: take two performances by the Irish team, one with BOD and one without. The team rarely fully fires without him, and thats plain to see, both at Leinster and Ireland, even when he's not firing anywhere near full cylinder.

I can watch him play, and come out of it saying he did absolutely nothing of note, and be right, but for some reason that entire team slows down and makes stupid silly mistakes much more often when he's not there. Once again with Leinster - matches sans BOD against good opposition can end up with Contepomi firing like a demon while every play ends in disaster.

dirtybarry

Yes, he did well against Scotland. He's regularly done well against poorer teams that don't target him. Yes, he deserves a game against Wales and if he plays well again, I'll be willing to admit he could be the better option. However, the fact remains that he's also had plenty of games where he's thrown ridiculous passes, got consistently turned over and been a complete liability in defence. I would question many, many things EOS has done, but his treatment of Murphy is not one of them. I probably would have dropped him completely from the 22 as opposed to ever putting him on the wing, but that's about it.[/quo

this forum is all about opinions and i have to admit i completely disagree with yours...a 'liabilty'???no that is wrong to single him out like that,he has missed some tackles in the last season or two but is his tackling any worse than o garas??...we have conceded some dreadful tries in the past few seasons due to weak tackling by many individuals.as for turnovers i seem to remember our world cup pool game against argentina being notable for our complete inability to hold onto the ball in contact so to single out murphy again is unfair.the guy has real class going forward and offers us much more than dempsey and he can do pretty much everything dempsey does in defence so he deseves an extended run in his best position

Sangre

I think the Irish team would greatly benefit if BOD never kicked another ball in his life.

Crash

tie a couple of feet of rope between them feet - he can then run, and possibly do a grubber, but that'd be about it.

dc69

Sangre wrote: »

I think the Irish team would greatly benefit if BOD never kicked another ball in his life.

I think the rugby forum would greatly benefit if YOU never post in it again:).explain your thinking for us all?What 13 would you place ahead of BOD seeing as we have loads of them floating about?how would we benefit from dropping our (when in form)best player?

Podge_irl

this forum is all about opinions and i have to admit i completely disagree with yours...a 'liabilty'???no that is wrong to single him out like that,he has missed some tackles in the last season or two but is his tackling any worse than o garas??...we have conceded some dreadful tries in the past few seasons due to weak tackling by many individuals.as for turnovers i seem to remember our world cup pool game against argentina being notable for our complete inability to hold onto the ball in contact so to single out murphy again is unfair.the guy has real class going forward and offers us much more than dempsey and he can do pretty much everything dempsey does in defence so he deseves an extended run in his best position

O'Gara has worked on his tackling and improved it somewhat, but while I'd like a better tackler at 10, we need O'Gara there as we have no other options, we don't need Murphy at 15. There is more to defence than tackling anyway, he also has a habit of going completely AWOL and not being there to attempt to tackle in the first place.
Yes, we were crap against Argentina, but I'm not basing my point about him being poor in contact off that game (mind you, I thought it was especially evident in the summer games against Argentina, but I don't entirely remember).
As to the last point, I would imagine very few people would argue that Dempsey is not better in defence than Murphy. His positioning and tackling are better. I, for the record, would agree that Murphy is better in attack - I just think he costs Ireland more than they gain from playing him. I also don't think he is a genius in attack, just better than Dempsey.

And for the last time, he has had extended runs in his best position.

MikeHoncho

Well that hat of mine sure did taste delicious after Murphys performance. Kearney and Wallace should get recognition as well they were both excellent.

People talking about dropping BOD seriously need to get a grip. No one else on our team (bar maybe O'Gara) could have thrown that pass for Kearneys try. He puts in tackles all day and does so much work to allow the likes of Kearney, Bowe and Murphy to shine. He is a very tough and honest player something I dont think he gets nearly enough credit for.

dc69

Stev_o wrote: »

Really? As a OC what is he providing expect for defence? As i pointed out his only highlight he had was a wonderful pass to Kearney but if you expect your OC to be great just because he can tackle well dont expect him scoring any time soon.

the fact that the whole team is wary of him and he is nearly more of a danger when he doesnt have the ball,because players distracted with him making dummy runs etc.he allows the team as a whole more space

GerryHatTrick

IMO dropping BOD is out of the question, but maybe a move to 12 to keep the opposition on their toes? Trimble is more naturally a 13 than a 12 and BOD has shown (in my opinion) that he has the skills to slot in at 12. I think Trimble is holding up well, but would shine more at OC.

As for the Murphy/Dempsey debate, I was happy with Murphys performance yesterday (bar a KO or 2), I think he aquitted himself fairly well in the FB position, but to be honest , when Dempsey plays there I think he shows a better balance between defence and attack which reduces the need for wingers to have to cover. Hear hear for Kearney moving to fullback - I think hes proved hes ready for the challenge

dirtybarry

to all the idiots posting about dropping brian o driscoll i would helpfully suggest that you go and learn something about the game of rugby.in brian o driscoll we have possibly one of the finest outside centres ever to play the game..the fact that the irish back line is without a specialist backs coach at the moment means that most of our back play at the moment involves a big skip pass to drico which opposition defences are expecting and can defend against easily.in one magical moment on saturday in the lead up to kearneys try we saw the very best of drico.also the guys work at ruck time is unreal and he is almost like an extra flanker at times.the only time you can talk about dropping a player is when there is a credible alternative and we have nobody else in the same league as drico to play 13.

the only issues i would have with drico at the moment are some aspects of his captaincy and some of his kicking out of hand which has been poor at times.but the thought of dropping him from an irish team or anything happening to him should be enough to scare any knowledgeable irish supporter

GerryHatTrick

dirtybarry wrote: »

to all the idiots posting about dropping brian o driscoll

I think you'll find it was only one guy

smok

dirtybarry wrote: »

in one magical moment on saturday in the lead up to kearneys try we saw the very best of drico.

shades of Umaga against the lions for that pass!
Awesome how he sucked in the defenders before it.

smok

GerryHatTrick wrote: »

As for the Murphy/Dempsey debate, I was happy with Murphys performance yesterday (bar a KO or 2), I think he aquitted himself fairly well in the FB position

Crikey I think that i very muted praise given the performance.
Without him we would have laboured for victory.
Typical of analysis of Murphy that 2 off kicks* are mentioned while the good kicks are not. I remember one outstanding kick accross field into the Scottish 22 in the first half.

*a couple of slightly poor kicks a game is always going to happn. O'Gara has spoiled us with his consistancy over the years but it is a rarity to get that. Even he nor Dempsey hit game winning kicks for touch every time!

toomevara

GerryHatTrick wrote: »

IMO dropping BOD is out of the question, but

Course it is, but there's no question he needs to get his groove back in attack. Still a superbly committed. utterly professional player but he doesn't seem to be enjoying his rugby at the minute. I think a well earned rest after the 6N would do him the power of good, I don't think that ankle of his is right at all and its affecting his play.

GerryHatTrick

smok wrote: »

Crikey I think that i very muted praise given the performance.

Well, considering given some recent performances I was one for ousting him out of the team all together, I think my praise is apt! In my eyes, his rating has gone from a -5/10 to a 5/10 in this match, so I don't praise him lightly!!

Surprised at some peoples reaction to tommy Bowes performance, I thought he had a very solid game and took his chances very well when they came to him - something he hasn't done for Ireland too often in the past. Hopefully he can keep it up!:D

Podge_irl

smok wrote: »

Without him we would have laboured for victory.

What makes you think that? Again, he was good, but he hardly beat Scotland single-handedly. He had no part in 3 of the tries and O'Driscoll and O'Gara respectively were more important in the two he was involved in. Seriously, the praise he's getting is completely over the top. He played well, he wasn't tested in defence, deserves to start against Wales to see how he does against a better team.

Sangre

dc69 wrote: »

I think the rugby forum would greatly benefit if YOU never post in it again:).explain your thinking for us all?What 13 would you place ahead of BOD seeing as we have loads of them floating about?how would we benefit from dropping our (when in form)best player?

where in gods name did i suggest dropping him?

The guy would be a better player if he never tried kicking the ball, he is useless at it.

Stev_o

dc69 wrote: »

the fact that the whole team is wary of him and he is nearly more of a danger when he doesnt have the ball,because players distracted with him making dummy runs etc.he allows the team as a whole more space

BS. If thats the fact then he should be at 12 OC arent link players and they are breakers IC are the ones who make space for them.

Look if he moves into IC great because then Trimble who is in better form and offering more of late will make more of the OC and if as we know that BOD will be targeted with 3 players he can easily create space for everyone else but at 13 he wont and we will keep seeing this form

phog

dc69 wrote: »

also why was ogara kicking to touch for about 20 mins yesterday when we had scots on the back foot,now we have no chance of winning the championship because of our lack of tries/points,stupidity at the highest level.what would it have mattered if the scots had scored again and we scored 2 more tries?nothing well worth the risk

phog wrote: »

How many balls did ROG kick to touch? What period of 20 minutes are you referring to? I only saw the game once but I don't recall too many kicks to touch in any given period of time. Scotland owned the ball in the 1st half and in the second we scored 2 tries while ROG was on the field - do you really think he wasted that much ball?

Bump - still looking for a few facts to your complaints about ROG's wasteful kicking to touch.

BTW - according to this morning's examiner, Gregor Townsend, a noted No.10 himself said about ROG “That was a meticulous performance, he varied his game superbly. By my reckoning he made just one error when he sliced a clearing kick inside his 22. Other than that, he didn’t put a foot wrong and was central to all the good things that Ireland produced. He made two tries for Ireland at crucial stages of the game and his kicking game was near perfect”

full article here