Rathdown Motors Confusing Consumers

OutlawPete · 23-02-2008 7:35pm #1

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this misleading?

Nico

Seth Brundle · 23-02-2008 7:44pm

What part do you find confusing?
I think the idea of using the ABC is a bit stupid though!

Atomic Pineapple · 23-02-2008 7:48pm

what part do you find misleading? it seems to be right to me but it only concerns itself with cars within ireland it doesn't mention anything about importing or cars registered after july.

I'm no expert on the matter though I could have missed something?

Seth Brundle · 23-02-2008 7:50pm

draffodx wrote: »

what part do you find misleading? it seems to be right to me but it only concerns itself with cars within ireland it doesn't mention anything about importing or cars registered after july.

I'm no expert on the matter though I could have missed something?

And you expect a car dealer to provide information about importing your car???

Guy:Incognito · 23-02-2008 7:51pm

draffodx wrote: »

it seems to be right to me but it only concerns itself with cars within ireland it doesn't mention anything about importing or cars registered after july.

Cant se why it would. AFAIK they dont import used cars so they wouldnt bother putting the info on their site.

Atomic Pineapple · 23-02-2008 7:51pm

Stekelly wrote: »

Cant se why it would. AFAIK they dont import used cars so they wouldnt bother putting the info on their site.

yeh thats what i meant, i dont find it confusing and the only thing i can think of is it doesn't mention imports and i was thinking they didnt deal with imports anyway

--amadeus-- · 23-02-2008 10:11pm

Hmmm way to get Boards sue'd!!

niceirishfella · 23-02-2008 11:48pm

--amadeus-- wrote: »

Hmmm way to get Boards sue'd!!

Excuse me, there was NOTHING and I mean NOTHING in my humerous post about this family business that was untrue.

Yes, they do sell ex rentals from their sister co's fleet - FACT.

and yes, their founding boss Joe Turley Snr settled with the revenue in relation to tax evasion through an offshore account. - YEs, Fact and a well published one.

so, i'm left wondering, WHY Da Fook was my post removed???

Churchy · 24-02-2008 12:00am

--amadeus-- wrote: »

Hmmm way to get Boards sue'd!!

I agree with that ^^^.

The ABC points are easy to understand (from a member of the publics point of view) and factually correct.
IMO the thread poster should get wrist slapping from admin to suggest a company is misleading the public when its most certainly not.

Have said this before , if I worked for that company a solicitors letter would be enroute on Monday morning to boards.ie.

JHMEG · 24-02-2008 12:38am

Jeez, are the high horses are out again?

Anyway:
A "Only new cars are affected by VRT changes..." is wrong.
C "Road tax changes related to CO2.. will only affect.. new cars".. is wrong.

Nico, sounds deliberately misleading to me.

Is what niceirishfella says correct? If so he (at least) deserves an explanation? (If not, please ignore)

--amadeus-- · 24-02-2008 12:43am

To clarify, my comment on being sued was about a post (now removed) that had a whole heap of other comments on it.

The initial ABC post is fine within it's own terms of reference (cars that are newly registered are afected and they don't import cars, it's very much a minority thing so it's broadly true to say that second hand cars aren't affected, etc).

All that said naming a particular company (especially in light of the MCD warnings) and giving out about them without an "in my opinion" qualifier is asking for trouble.

niceirishfella · 24-02-2008 12:50am

--amadeus-- wrote: »

To clarify, my comment on being sued was about a post (now removed) that had a whole heap of other comments on it.

The initial ABC post is fine within it's own terms of reference (cars that are newly registered are afected and they don't import cars, it's very much a minority thing so it's broadly true to say that second hand cars aren't affected, etc).

All that said naming a particular company (especially in light of the MCD warnings) and giving out about them without an "in my opinion" qualifier is asking for trouble.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh, so if i had to put in "in my opinion" in my post, you would'nt have removed it eventhough all the FACTs in it are FACTUAL??

--amadeus-- · 24-02-2008 1:02am

How could I remove it, I'm not a Moderator!

And yes in law you are allowed to hold any resonible opinion but you cannot make assertions of fact unless you can prove that they are true, even "anonymously" on the internet.

So saying X Resteraunt uses dead cats instead of lamb could get you sued but saying "In my opinion the lamb tastes like dead cat" won't. ANd teh fact there is a perm warning on discussing MCD events proves that this is an issue that has popped up before. There is a feedback forum if you have a problem with the moderation.

Wishbone Ash · 24-02-2008 1:04am

.....and as there are no Motors mods online, it was removed by someone at a much higher level.

niceirishfella · 24-02-2008 1:07am

--amadeus-- wrote: »

How could I remove it, I'm not a Moderator!

And yes in law you are allowed to hold any resonible opinion but you cannot make assertions of fact unless you can prove that they are true, even "anonymously" on the internet.

So saying X Resteraunt uses dead cats instead of lamb could get you sued but saying "In my opinion the lamb tastes like dead cat" won't. ANd teh fact there is a perm warning on discussing MCD events proves that this is an issue that has popped up before. There is a feedback forum if you have a problem with the moderation.

ama, ok, breathe........breath some more, count to 10.......................ok............now, EXHALE........Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

nothing was or is pointed at you. And your right. IMHO's are a good way of sidestepping getting ass's sued, but i have no worries there. I know all the facts in question are indeed the TRUTH.
Anyways, I couldnt be arsed anymore about it........may aswell lock up the thread before the internet police come to my door and throw me in a cell with a big 22stone guy called BUBBA.

--amadeus-- · 24-02-2008 1:07am

Jesus reads the Motors forum?

Can I have a Bugatti please

agent_smith · 24-02-2008 4:46am

Not sure if i agree with the bit at the end 'that your vehicle will depreciate more than the vrt savings'.
This is not necessarily the case for a LOT of cars. If your existing car is diesel and has a low CO2 emission then maybe.. if you are petrol... then happy days it should make bugger all difference to your trade in value.

Seth Brundle · 24-02-2008 10:16am

@niceirishfella - if you wish to argue with the moderation on the forum then take it to the feedback thread.

niceirishfella · 24-02-2008 12:18pm

right so, I've been told.

OutlawPete · 24-02-2008 1:20pm

JHMEG wrote: »

Jeez, are the high horses are out again?

Anyway:
A "Only new cars are affected by VRT changes..." is wrong.
C "Road tax changes related to CO2.. will only affect.. new cars".. is wrong.

Nico, sounds deliberately misleading to me.
(If not, please ignore)

Exactly - glad someone seen where I was coming from

Guy:Incognito · 24-02-2008 1:29pm

Nico22 wrote: »

Exactly - glad someone seen where I was coming from

Not wrong from Rathdown motors POV, which I'm sure is theonly one they are concerned with. Would you like them to run an ad about how to save money by not buying their used cars and to go to the UK?

-Chris- · 24-02-2008 1:43pm

I'm pretty sure te SIMI would have an issue with any of their dealers promoting the importing of used cars...

(And that's not an invitation to highjack the thread and go on a rant about the SIMI and any issues you have about them, I'm merely making the point that their main function is to protect and serve their members and to give their members a code of conduct to give consumers peace-of-mind).

OutlawPete · 24-02-2008 2:15pm

AudiChris wrote: »

I'm pretty sure te SIMI would have an issue with any of their dealers promoting the importing of used cars...

No one is asking them to 'promote' importing used cars. Who implied that they should?

Pointing out that used cars ARE effected by the new Co2 based car tax rates or that the new VRT rates also effect used cars doesn't even come close to 'promoting' importing used cars.

Look, the article / ad on their website gives the impression that if you buy a used car NOW, the new car tax based on Co2 emissions won't effect you which is rubbish.

Someone could read this and get a 2.0 petrol which tax is 400 now but will closer to 2000 grand when it's renewal comes up after July.

I didn't want to say it but I think the purpose of this ad is obviously directed at those who wish to buy a car which would fall into the 100 Euro and 150 Car Tax bracket as I know someone who works in a car dealership in Clontarf and they are getting a lot of people asking now what the car tax will be on the cars after July.

If you check out AutoTrader.co.uk you will see a lot of ads stating that their cars fall into the low emissions tax bracket as they car tax system was changed last year or before so there is money to be made.

I could be wrong but I think that ad is to more or less say 'buy a new low emissions car as a used low emissions car won't effect your car tax'. That's just my opinion but I can't see why else they would to make it look like used cars are uneffected by the Co2 based car tax rates.

AudiChris wrote: »

(And that's not an invitation to highjack the thread and go on a rant about the SIMI and any issues you have about them ..

You sound like a primary school teacher - could you try a little harder to not be so condescending.

Nico

OutlawPete · 24-02-2008 2:21pm

Stekelly wrote: »

Not wrong from Rathdown motors POV, which I'm sure is theonly one they are concerned with. Would you like them to run an ad about how to save money by not buying their used cars and to go to the UK?

Your missing the point. They sell used cars but there ad makes it look like the new Co2 car tax rates doesn't effect used cars.

It's in their interest to let their customers know that the new Co2 based car tax rates WILL effect used cars. In their interest, that is, if they actually want people to buy their used cars or are they really just interested in selling new ones?

Nico

Guy:Incognito · 24-02-2008 2:31pm

Nico22 wrote: »

Your missing the point. They sell used cars but there ad makes it look like the new Co2 car tax rates doesn't effect used cars.

It's in their interest to let their customers know that the new Co2 based car tax rates WILL effect used cars. In their interest, that is, if they actually want people to buy their used cars or are they really just interested in selling new ones?

Nico

It wont affect the used cars they sell as they will have been registered before July. Only used cars imported after july will be effected by the co2 rates changes.

Nico22 wrote: »

Look, the article / ad on their website gives the impression that if you buy a used car NOW, the new car tax based on Co2 emissions won't effect you which is rubbish.

How will it affect you? Any used car bought in Ireland is already registered here so the co2 based doesnt come into it. Only used cars imported and regitered in Ireand after july will be concerend with the new rates.

Seth Brundle · 24-02-2008 2:37pm

I believe that used car prices will be affected by the new taxation system as many models will drop in price affecting resultant used values. Also the old system will be removed in time - presumably after the Local Elections

Guy:Incognito · 24-02-2008 2:41pm

kbannon wrote: »

I believe that used car prices will be affected by the new taxation system as many models will drop in price affecting resultant used values.

Yes but Nico is talking about the tax rates, used value of the car is a different arguement.

JHMEG · 24-02-2008 2:42pm

Nico22 wrote: »

No one is asking them to 'promote' importing used cars. Who implied that they should?

They're quite clearly telling half truths. Ignore those who are saying otherwise.

-Chris- · 24-02-2008 2:42pm

Nico22 wrote: »

You sound like a primary school teacher - could you try a little harder to not be so condescending.

Nico

I was agreeing with SteKelly's post, not attacking yours.

Also, I was actually trying to make sure that me bringing up the SIMI wouldn't start a debate about how good/useless they are and divert the point of YOUR thread. That was for the sake of the discussion you started! I won't bother next time.

Nico22 wrote: »

Pointing out that used cars ARE effected by the new Co2 based car tax rates or that the new VRT rates also effect used cars doesn't even come close to 'promoting' importing used cars.

Used cars are potentially affected by a change in price dependent on the change in new car price. This is up for debate at the moment, noone knows how the market will react.
It's definitely not something a franchised dealer would try and hammer out on their website.

Nico22 wrote: »

Look, the article / ad on their website gives the impression that if you buy a used car NOW, the new car tax based on Co2 emissions won't effect you which is rubbish.

How will the new car tax system affect the used car you buy? Again, we're speculating as to how the market will react to the two tax rates...

Nico22 wrote: »

Someone could read this and get a 2.0 petrol which tax is 400 now but will closer to 2000 grand when it's renewal comes up after July.

How so?

Nico22 wrote: »

I didn't want to say it but I think the purpose of this ad is obviously directed at those who wish to buy a car which would fall into the 100 Euro and 150 Car Tax bracket as I know someone who works in a car dealership in Clontarf and they are getting a lot of people asking now what the car tax will be on the cars after July.

Again, how so? It's incredibly easy for the customer to find out what the pre and post-July tax rates will be for any given car. I would be surprised if dealers weren't sharing this information freely!

Nico22 wrote: »

If you check out AutoTrader.co.uk you will see a lot of ads stating that their cars fall into the low emissions tax bracket as they car tax system was changed last year or before so there is money to be made.

I'm sure this will happen here too. I'm not sure how it will affect pricing.

Nico22 wrote: »

I could be wrong but I think that ad is to more or less say 'buy a new low emissions car as a used low emissions car won't effect your car tax'. That's just my opinion but I can't see why else they would to make it look like used cars are uneffected by the Co2 based car tax rates.

I don't see that in the article. I think you're reading too much into it.
I think the main point of the article is to bring the information into the open and to get the customers asking questions. I think it's a better strategy than trying to sweep the information under the carpet.

Personally I don't get your point and I think that you're nit-picking. I don't see this information as misleading. I don't see how you're confused.

-Chris- · 24-02-2008 3:17pm

Also, you left out the line...

To enquire how the above will affect your vehicle of interest please contact our sales executives on 01 490 0000 or alternatively e-mail us at info@rathdownmotors.ie.

...directly below the bit you copied and pasted. I'd be more interested to hear what their phone explanation of the webpage is rather than our interpretations of it.

Maybe it was a little misleading of you to leave that out of your original post??

Seth Brundle · 24-02-2008 7:16pm

Stekelly wrote: »

Yes but Nico is talking about the tax rates, used value of the car is a different arguement.

Its all relative. The new tax rates will affect the value of used cars. Anyhow, I was responding/agreeing to Nico's post!

Nico22 wrote: »

Your missing the point. They sell used cars but there ad makes it look like the new Co2 car tax rates doesn't effect used cars.

It's in their interest to let their customers know that the new Co2 based car tax rates WILL effect used cars. In their interest, that is, if they actually want people to buy their used cars or are they really just interested in selling new ones?

Nico

Rathdown Motors Confusing Consumers

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