My Ridiculous Banning From Poker Forum

KashMachine · 24-02-2008 2:00am #1

Just to highlight a ridiculous decision made by Ste05 to ban me from the poker forum for.....and i quote directly from his PM

'I've banned you from Poker, I'm sick of people coming in with new accounts just stirring sh1t.If you want to come back and aren't just going to troll and post sh1te, I'll lift your ban in a week'.

As you can see it's pretty short, not so sweet and a bribed judge would have difficulty siding with such a flimsy, off the cuff, load of nonsense ruling.

Just to clear things up for any of you who are suspecting I'm not giving you the full details.

Here is my short history on Boards.ie...let me know if it warrants such a ban.

I play poker and am passionate about the game which i just started playing 14 months ago. Always trying to improve my game a learn more, I heard people talking about boards.ie as a good place to go to read and learn and socialise (in the virtual sense obviously) with people who share a common passion. So I started reading through the site for anything and everything that i could find useful. I found alot of good stuff.
So anyway having registered about 4 weeks ago i've been mostly reading as i don't feel like i have much to ad that can help. I'm not big on the small talk that goes on on the Poker forum but hey that's fine if your into it but i don't waste time with it. I've made 4 posts to date. 2 were questions about poker. e.g. how important is rakeback to profit and another regarding a hand i played and whether my Aces were cracked. i also replied to another guy's post on his question regarding what his odds of winning had were. I replied to this because I felt it was one area where i have something to offer....the mathematical side. I think i gave a pretty clear and accurate response. The thing is I like maths and have a pretty good apptitude for maths having excelled in the subject at secondary school and 3rd level. Now the last post I made was what I meant as a light hearted response to yes, you've guessed it, a maths post in the theory section of the poker forum. After reading a nicely scripted piece explaining the calculation of the fold equity of a particular hand i thought to myself...wow that's cool.......it's the first time I've ever seen anyone explain the maths so consisely....anywhere.....so i posted a tongue-in-cheek reply.....saying 'i just had an orgasm' having read through the piece. it was supposed to be taken in irony but unfortunately it was taken as dimwit.

So that's the sum-total of my boards.ie life. Does anyone see where i 'stirred sh1te' or ‘trolled’? If you want to see some ****e str1rring look no further than posts such as the 'petition for the change of BCB's name'. That gets pretty personal eh? And if my poorly timed humour is classed as ****e (which is okay by the way) then check out bascically 20-25% of the poker forum for ****e of a similar class. We're talking serious DOUBLE STANDARDS here.

Lastly and i think this is the most revealing when it comes to the double standards and poor judgement made by Ste05.

If you look a the statement it effectively says.....I'm sick...(him)......of people doing said strirring and trolling.............and i'm banning you to punish this sort of thing even though i am not giving you any evidence of said stirring/trolling or why it is so bad in this instance.

Ste05, whoever you are, you need to get real. This is not the way to treat a newcomer. I just hope you come out of the fog and see you made a bad call here and just lighten up a little.

noel keane, Kashmachine on boards

AlmightyCushion · 24-02-2008 2:06am

When he says trolling he means this.

Nerin · 24-02-2008 2:09am

1. trollingBeing a prick on the internet because you can. Typically unleashing one or more cynical or sarcastic remarks on an innocent by-stander, because it's the internet and, hey, you can.
Guy: "I just found the coolest ninja pencil in existence."
Other Guy: "I just found the most retarded thread in existence."

2. trolling

Trolling is the act of purposefully antagonizing other people on the internet, generally on message boards. When done in a moderated internet community, this can result in banning. When done to uptight people such as fundies, this can result in hilarity.
Apparently I can't post links here, so I can't give a good example of trolling. Sorry.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=trolling

ps dammit!!! beaten to it by almightycushion

KashMachine · 24-02-2008 2:17am

i took it in the traditional sense (i.e. fishing).
anyway i'll edit and repost as it doesn't affect my argument in essense.
thanks alot guys

Talliesin · 24-02-2008 2:18am

Taking you on your word. Here's three tips:

When you are new in any given situation where people have been longer there will be certain things that you will not understand.

Some of these things will be rather silly - like "don't use that cup for your tea, only granny uses that cup" - and some rather serious - like "don't use that electrical socket there's a lose wire near by that we haven't fixed yet and whether you die or merely feel a sharp pain and smell your own flesh burning will depend mainly on how conductive your shoes are".

If you hit one of these the winning approach is to accept that there is information you are lacking. The losing approach is to assume that you know exactly what the score is and act on the basis of whatever you have decided are the facts of the matter.

"I'm sick of people coming in with new accounts just" clearly refers to things that have happened before you claim to have started on this forum. Hence you're in the sort of scenario I describe above. If you play poker, I'm sure you know enough about game theory to work out the rest.

Hence your ban could well be sucky, it could even be unfair, but you can't actually know if it's ridiculous, can you?
You've just called yourself an utter asshole that should be immediately banned from the entire site. This is either because you are an utter asshole that should immediately be banned from the entire site and find it amusing to play at being ignorant, or because you don't know what "trolling" means.

While both terms come from types of fishing, there is a difference between trawling and trolling. The latter is frowned upon and as such it's not considered acceptable to do, or to accuse others of doing.
Putting your email address in a post is generally a bad idea, though there are times when it's worth doing. On feedback it's probably never a good idea.

Probably the best that can happen is that you'll increase the number of people offering you cheap viagra from legally-dubious sources.

KashMachine · 24-02-2008 2:38am

troll 1

(trōl) Pronunciation Key
v. trolled, troll·ing, trolls

v. tr.

<LI minmax_bound="true">To fish for by trailing a baited line from behind a slowly moving boat. <LI minmax_bound="true">To fish in by trailing a baited line:troll the lake for bass. <LI minmax_bound="true">To trail (a baited line) in fishing. <LI minmax_bound="true">To sing in succession the parts of (a round, for example).
[*]To sing heartily: troll a carol.<LI minmax_bound="true">Slang To patrol (an area) in search for someone or something: "[Criminals] troll bus stations for young runaways" (Pete Axthelm).</FONT minmax_bound="true"> <LI minmax_bound="true">Music

To sing heartily: troll a carol.

[*]To roll or revolve.
v. intr.

<LI minmax_bound="true">To fish by trailing a line, as from a moving boat. <LI minmax_bound="true">

Slang To patrol an area in search for someone or something.

<LI minmax_bound="true">Music To sing heartily or gaily.
[*]To roll or spin around.
n.

A lure, such as a spoon or spinner, that is used for trolling.

[*]Music A vocal composition in successive parts; a round.

[Middle English trollen, to wander about, from Old French troller, of Germanic origin.]

troll'er n.
(Download Now or Buy the Book) The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.WordNet - Cite This Source - Share This trolling
nounangling by drawing a baited line through the water [syn: troll]

Nerin · 24-02-2008 2:43am

be that as it may, troll,trolling etc are still internet terms that have different meaning.
i believe wikipedia has a page on internet language.

Hanley · 24-02-2008 2:47am

So now you know what trolling is better than anyone else on the whole forum too?

Some tips...

-Being new, don't expect that anyone owes you anything here

-Saying a ban is stupid or wrong isn't a good way to get it lifted

-Openly attacking a mod in a feedback thread will results in Lolcats

-Having 6 posts, and thinking you know how everything works is incredibly close minded and not a good way to endear yourself to others

-IMO you shoulda taken the week long ban on the chin. You're only here 6 posts so you've obviously managed to live without boards thus far. Or at least haven't contributed that much so what's another week? That being said I'd be surprised if that offer is still on the table

Nerin · 24-02-2008 2:58am

ps: Hanleys tips are good.

pps :

In the exciting world of the Internet computers do not have to be paid and do not go home at 5 in the evening, programs and scripts don't exist solely on paper and now can even involve a large degree of decision making and go on practically permanently. Bugs do not have wings, buttons do not need thread. Programmers tell machines rather than people what they should be doing and when, and hacking neither involves using an axe nor produces furniture.

Do not try to eat the cookies.

i LOLd
Talliesin is on a roll methinks

Talliesin · 24-02-2008 2:59am

KashMachine wrote: »

troll 1 (trōl) Pronunciation Key
v. trolled, troll·ing, trolls
...

You make a good case if you believe that you were banned for fishing.

In such a case I suggest that you start a new thread saying "I was banned for fishing, and I wasn't fishing at all".

However, I suspect that you were not banned for fishing, but rather because you were suspected of trolling.

Trolling as a style of fishing involves, as your dictionary reference suggests, dragging bait through a likely spot.

Saying something that you can guarantee will result in anger and flamage and upset and not in any sort of reasonable conversation (a heated debate or a pleasant chat both have their place, but even a heated debate differs from a flame-war) is called trolling by analogy to that style of fishing.

Such metaphors are common on the Internet and in computing generally. The following words for instance are often found on the internet:

Computer
Program
Script
Bug
Button
Programmer
Hack
Cookie

In the exciting world of the Internet computers do not have to be paid and do not go home at 5 in the evening, programs and scripts don't exist solely on paper and now can even involve a large degree of decision making and go on practically permanently. Bugs do not have wings, buttons do not need thread. Programmers tell machines rather than people what they should be doing and when, and hacking neither involves using an axe nor produces furniture.

Do not try to eat the cookies.

For all that though, I suspect you're just giving dictionary definitions because you're trolling.

KashMachine · 24-02-2008 3:01am

Mostly as humans we talk about opinions and come to a common consensus because we cannot talk in facts all the time (we are not computers). 'Ridiculous' comes under opinion. It was never meant to be understood as fact. When people say the OJ Simpson verdict was ridiculous, you and others generally understand what they mean. They mean they think it was the wrong outcome and not something which they can or want to establish as fact there and then. Of course i don't know whether in my case it is fact because of the game theoretic position you just put but you are diverting from the point with such analysis.

Also please don't patronise me about misunderstanding the word 'troll' as you have difficulty with it also by the looks of it! Everything else you said was much appreciated believe it or not.

Thanks. KM

pirelli · 24-02-2008 3:09am

Hanley wrote: »

So now you know what trolling is better than anyone else on the whole forum too?

Some tips...

-Being new, don't expect that anyone owes you anything here

-Saying a ban is stupid or wrong isn't a good way to get it lifted

-Openly attacking a mod in a feedback thread will results in Lolcats

-Having 6 posts, and thinking you know how everything works is incredibly close minded and not a good way to endear yourself to others

-IMO you shoulda taken the week long ban on the chin. You're only here 6 posts so you've obviously managed to live without boards thus far. Or at least haven't contributed that much so what's another week? That being said I'd be surprised if that offer is still on the table

Were you not banned last week Hanly anyways glad your ban was lifted. You shouldnt be banned for anything off forum unless it's objectively offensive.

Mods' shouldnt take their fustration out on people. Sounds like their was tiny amount of fustration on the part of the Mod. We all agree that mods volunteer their time to make boards.ie a brilliant Irish forum and dang i'm proud of them. Their contribution isnt overlooked. However delibertlytaking out their fustration on someone isnt being a mod and they should not be immune when this happens.

Talliesin · 24-02-2008 3:12am

KashMachine wrote: »

When people say the OJ Simpson verdict was ridiculous, you and others generally understand what they mean. They mean they think it was the wrong outcome and not something which they can or want to establish as fact there and then.

Yes. If they've followed the OJ Simpson trial to any degree then their opinion as to whether it was ridiculous or not will be based on that.

If someone knows only that the OJ Simpson trial was a trial in which a man was accused of murder and he was acquitted and they suddenly declare that ridiculous - well, let's just say that I hope such a person never serves on a jury.

KashMachine wrote: »

Also please don't patronise me about misunderstanding the word 'troll' as you have difficulty with it also by the looks of it! Everything else you said was much appreciated believe it or not.

I'm patronising your insisting that you were right and everyone else was wrong after you were told about the other definition of troll.

To make a mistake the first time is perfectly understandable - as I said, it comes from a style of fishing and it's not hard to see how someone could imagine it being metaphorically in the same way as trawling is.

It's the mumpsimus factor that moves it from the mistaken into the being highly amusing.

Nerin · 24-02-2008 3:13am

Also please don't patronise me about misunderstanding the word 'troll' as you have difficulty with it also by the looks of it! Everything else you said was much appreciated believe it or not.

dont bite the hand that feeds is another tip you should remember.
what everyone is saying is that there are going to be terms and in-jokes etc you wont get for awhile.

im sure people are going to be looking at you suspiciously as you have got a small post count and you have said things that could be seen as trolling (its written language,sometimes its hard to tell how people are saying something/intend it to be seen)

also links to threads is helpful and you will be inevitably be asked to provide them for us (as evidence,if you will), also because its a pain to go trawling through posts.

it may come as a shock to you because you are only in the door as it were,and you suffered the fiery wrath of The Banstick, but you need to realise that there are all sorts of muppets that register to start trolling and causing mischief, and the mods see alot of it, and might be quick to shoot first and let God (or DeV) sort em out.

also, further advice, don't get carried away and personally insut, that won't help your case at all.
PMing the mod in question,cooly and calmly is usually helpful also.

Hanley · 24-02-2008 3:19am

pirelli wrote: »

Were you not banned last week Hanly anyways glad your ban was lifted. You shouldnt be banned for anything off forum unless it's objectively offensive.

It was two weeks ago, but whatever. The points I alluded to and how I put forth my case played a large part in having my ban lifted. I posted to advise Kashmachine that how you approach a situation like this probably plays a large part in whether or not the ban is lifted. Coming on and saying "everyone's out to get me, you all suck" isn't a good idea and will result in lolcats. Putting forth your case, backing it up with contributions and history and asking for peoples opinions is. Of course this is moot when we're talking about someone with 6 posts who obviously feels that they have a some innate right to post wherever they want.

KashMachine · 24-02-2008 3:25am

no, it's quite obvious that you jumped to the conclusion that i was mixing up the words trawl and troll and you decided that you were more knowledgeable in those regards and felt compelled to come to my rescue (read Freud on Superiority/Inferiority complexes to get a better understanding of what this could indicate about your personality). you know that game theory indicates jumping to conclusions can be very costly (lmao)!

Talliesin · 24-02-2008 3:28am

KashMachine wrote: »

no, it's quite obvious that you jumped to the conclusion that i was mixing up the words trawl and troll and you decided that you were more knowledgeable in those regards and felt compelled to come to my rescue (read Freud on Superiority/Inferiority complexes to get a better understanding of what this could indicate about your personality).

Eh, you were claiming above to have mixed up the words trawl and troll in terms of how they are metaphorically applied.

Are you suggesting that you weren't?

Actually, the conclusion I came to as to what is most likely is that you know perfectly well what trolling means and you found the origin of the word in the dictionary and you just posted the original post in this thread as a form of trolling.

That you honestly don't know what trolling means is another possibility and I didn't dismiss it.

Since you are claiming to have not understood what trolling means in this sense, I don't really see what you gain in now claiming to that I am doing you and injustice in pointing out the other meaning.

Are you now claiming that you did know what trolling means?

KashMachine wrote: »

you know that game theory indicates about jumping to conclusions can be very costly (lmao)!

My point exactly.

nerin wrote: »

PMing the mod in question,cooly and calmly is usually helpful also.

But not if you say it's ridiculous.

On the other hand, re-reading the reason given for the ban and saying to oneself "hmm, maybe my behaviour matches previous behaviour of people who have previously been found to be trouble makers in one way or another and so I am being identified as such. Perhaps I should try to understand what led this person to this opinion of me and how it fits into the established consensus that I am new to" can be a much more productive approach.

The really radical thing about this, in the context of the Feedback forum, is that in this situation neither the OP nor the mod would be in the wrong, and both could be happy at the outcome. How freaky is that?

Hanley · 24-02-2008 3:35am

KashMachine wrote: »

no, it's quite obvious that you jumped to the conclusion that i was mixing up the words trawl and troll and you decided that you were more knowledgeable in those regards and felt compelled to come to my rescue (read Freud on Superiority/Inferiority complexes to get a better understanding of what this could indicate about your personality). you know that game theory indicates jumping to conclusions can be very costly (lmao)!

No no, dig up. Doing yourself no favours.

Nerin · 24-02-2008 3:40am

no, it's quite obvious that you jumped to the conclusion that i was mixing up the words trawl and troll and you decided that you were more knowledgeable in those regards and felt compelled to come to my rescue (read Freud on Superiority/Inferiority complexes to get a better understanding of what this could indicate about your personality). you know that game theory indicates about jumping to conclusions can be very costly (lmao)!

im starting to see why you were seen as a possible annoyance.

its feedback, people will try and help.

if you didnt want people commenting on this you wouldnt have posted here and would have kept this between yourself and the mod.

And regarding people that dont like hearing the right/logical advice (read Freud on Superiority complex)

i was in your position (kind of) when i first came here i annoyed a mod, and started a fight teh powah (TM) feedback thread also.
and more importantly learned from it.

The really radical thing about this, in the context of the Feedback forum, is that in this situation neither the OP nor the mod would be in the wrong, and both could be happy at the outcome. How freaky is that?

stop,youre sending shivers up my spine.

tallaght01 · 24-02-2008 5:39am

eh, how old is everyone in here?

who gives a **** about an internet definition of trolling.

Feedback has become a total joke.

OP, I'd suggest that you post concerns regarding banings in the helpdesk. That way every man and his dog can't reply. Only certain people can reply on helpdesk. I don't kn ow who they are, but there's only a few of them, which can only be a good thing.

Can people stop getting their knickers in a twist and look at the issue in question ie the ban.

So, poker mods, are internet orgasms against the rules?

IMO, internet orgasms FTW :cool:

Terry · 24-02-2008 2:20pm

Now I'm all for having a laugh at re-regs coming on here and fighting the power despite having been banned from every forum 30 times.

I don't think this is the case here though.

The post seems to have been deleted, so unless Ste05 restores it, or posts it here, we really don't know what happened.
Nothing in the reported posts forum either.

Also, laughing at newbies because they don't understand internet terminology is really lame.

Nerin · 24-02-2008 2:26pm

Also, laughing at newbies because they don't understand internet terminology is really lame.

i thought we were being helpful

i took it in the traditional sense (i.e. fishing).
anyway i'll edit and repost as it doesn't affect my argument in essense.
thanks alot guys

plus first lolcat!!!

Can people stop getting their knickers in a twist and look at the issue in question ie the ban.

the issue(one of the issues anyway) at the beginning was confusion over the term troll,and whether op was trolling or just made a fair mistake:rolleyes:

AckwelFoley · 24-02-2008 2:31pm

Poker is bad for you

KashMachine · 24-02-2008 2:48pm

As above.........

It's kinda self defeating.

AckwelFoley · 24-02-2008 2:49pm

Faith · 24-02-2008 4:14pm

KashMachine, being banned only affects you if you post in the forum. You said yourself you mostly read it, so you can just log out and read it merrily away.

I realise that solution doesn't address the ban itself, but if the ban isn't lifted, there's still that option for you.

snyper - it's very important to learn when lolcats are appropriate.

The original post has been fixed, he now understands the term "trolling", there is no need for ridicule or cat pics. Although he has come across poorly in serveral posts, he is being antagonised. He has a good reason to be pissed about the ban. It is not time for lolcats.

Hitchhiker's Guide to... · 24-02-2008 4:24pm

you could lift the ban. does seem like a harmless enough post.

DeVore · 24-02-2008 5:33pm

Snyper finally wore my considerable patience out and has been banned from Feedback for a while.

DeV.

randomcountdown · 25-02-2008 11:45am

Jesus, Boards.ie outdid itself on this thread.

Mr. Incognito · 25-02-2008 11:54am

OP has a legit problem,

People come and point and laugh at OP with lolcats and defining trolling. who gives a crap about the definition of trolling. This is making a mockery of the point of a feedback forum.

Kashmachine- have you tried to pm the mod? that is usually the first step. If you log out you can still view the thread so that should be that sorted for you at least.

Haven't heard the other side so can't comment but sounds like a harsh ban on a newbie that's being melted out for other people's general muppetry.

Gandalf23 · 25-02-2008 1:40pm

SetantaL wrote: »

OP has a legit problem

+1

Would be good to see something done about this.

SetantaL wrote: »

People come and point and laugh at OP with lolcats and defining trolling. who gives a crap about the definition of trolling. This is making a mockery of the point of a feedback forum

I totally agree ... Feedback is suffering because of this.

I think this forum should be more tightly controlled ... there should be no place for ill-informed, patrionising, idiotic, and irrelevent comments and replies to OP ... especially where the OP has a legit concern and/or genuine feedback to give. If someone takes the time to post here they should be respected. Having said that, I know there are some fools and "fite da powa" idiots ... dont give them time or effort ... lock threads quickly after they have been given a reason they have been banned.

IMHO there are a few (a significant minority perhaps???) people here who have no interest in hearing constructive feedback, or making helpful comments (really, really good to see some of these finally getting banned at last ... see above). There are also mods who ban unfairly and seem to be on some warped power trip. We all know this happens and who they are. Its equally as bad to be a "boards.ie fanboy" fool as a "fite da powa" fool. Both can be equally ignorant, blinkered, unhelpful, and laughable.

That said there are people here who I believe are interested in hearing genuine and constructive feedback. We all know who these are too. Sometimes a pity they seem to be drowning in lolcats.

Dont see this as a critisism of boards.ie ... I'm just giving feedback in an effort to make the site better and the community stronger.

My Ridiculous Banning From Poker Forum

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