Medicine or Law?

stainluss

Anybody doing either of these?Id be interested to know what each involves in Uni, and what subjects at LC would you need for either?Or would at least help?Another question what are the best reasons to do each?what should you be interested in?(Apart from €€€€€ lol)

Thomas_S_Hunterson

Are you interested in either of them?

stainluss

Sean_K wrote: »

Are you interested in either of them?

yes, both im just asking what topics (eg. politics etc) should you be interested in to enjoy either of these professions?

ZorbaTehZ

stainluss wrote:

Anybody doing either of these?Id be interested to know what each involves in Uni

Are you serious? You have no idea what either would involve?

stainluss wrote:

what subjects at LC would you need for either?

Qualifax.ie. Look up the courses and you'll be able to see what subjects and points are required.

EamonnKeane

Both involve a lot of study, hard work and money. The difference is that as a lawyer you'll spend half your time keeping scum of the earth out of jail and the other half doing paperwork, while as a doctor you'll spend half your time cutting people up and the other half doing paperwork.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

EamonnKeane wrote: »

Both involve a lot of study, hard work and money. The difference is that as a lawyer you'll spend half your time keeping scum of the earth out of jail and the other half doing paperwork, while as a doctor you'll spend half your time cutting people up and the other half doing paperwork.

Two silly points really.

There's more than just criminal law...in fact the real money is in corporate.

As a surgeon, you'll spend a lot of time cutting people up, but there are many branches of medicine, not just surgery.

HoldOnTight

why medicine and law? two very different careers...

Is it a prestige and money thing?

Corruptedmorals

It's a points thing. If you can get the points for medicine, but secretly prefer law, then choose law and don't be a points snob. The amount of people who end up hating their high-points courses who just put it down on the cao because they knew they'd get it. What's the point in that? You're only fooling yourself.

Anyway, Law needs the general matriculation subjects for the college, and nothing else. History would be good though. Lecture hours are generally less than 10 a week, but it's a given that you will spend your life in the library reading gigantic books and struggling to finish 5000 word-essays every week.

Medicine has far more hours, and far more practical and work placement based. Still more time-consuming.

HoldOnTight

Yeh all my law buddies at college seem to have loads of spare time. Most of them have the entire friday off. But they have just learned that all the extra free time they have is supposed to be spent cramming at the library!

Dont know anyone really from medecine other than a few minor acquaintances. They seem fairly relaxed and there is a definate 'work hard-play hard' ethos among them. They are definate hardcore partiers when they do emerge from their books!

Nothingcompares

stainluss wrote: »

Anybody doing either of these?Id be interested to know what each involves in Uni, and what subjects at LC would you need for either?Or would at least help?Another question what are the best reasons to do each?what should you be interested in?(Apart from €€€€€ lol)

Presumably you're in TY or earlier. The only special subjects you need for either are 2 sciences (physics, chemistry or biology (or derivatives) for medicine. However, a lot of people would recommend you do Physics Chemistry Biology and Higher Level Maths for medicine and History, Latin, Foreign Language, HL English etc. for Law however they're only recommendations.

Medicine in Uni involves a lot of lectures and labs on basic science as well as stuff more related to medicine such as anatomy. You'll be expected to do a lot of memorisation of different body parts (names of muscles,nerves etc.) in the early years. As you progress you'll spend more time in hospitals then in lectures in the college. In the hospitals you'll basically follow doctors around and learn stuff. I don't know the details.

Law in Uni involves a lot of reading of literature, stuff from trials/cases/law books, journals etc. Expect a lot of emphasis on essay writing, critical thinking, making persuasive arguments.

The similarities between Law and Medicine are few in the specific sense other than they require high points to get into and that the associated professions are "high status". People often want to be doctors or lawyers because they're impressive professions.

A medical degree will take 5/6 years to achieve and will then be followed by more years training in hospitals. You can expect really long hours as a junior doctor and a lot of stress associated with it. You can expect your social life (hobbys/girlfriends/boyfriends/going drinking) to suffer compared to that of people that got jobs in banks for example.

A law degree will not qualify you as a lawyer, you will need to complete more training and exams to be qualified as a solicitor or barrister. They're separate careers so you need to research the differences. The early years of Law are also quite difficult and require a lot of hours.

Both careers require intelligence, both in terms of academic competence (Doctors need to know their area inside out and be prepared to consistently upgrade their knowledge, lawyers require an encyclopaedic knowledge of the law etc.) and emotional/interpersonal ability (be able to "deal" with all types of people from patients to judges). You can argue that both require a desire to serve the community and fellow man etc.

Sangre

It will take roughly the same time to qualify as as solicitor as it will a doctor. Being a barrister will be a bit quicker. They're not much similarities between the professions in terms of what you'll be doing/learning. They'll both require a lot of hours and academic work to qualify or even become remotely successful. Are you considering them because they both have high points?

BTW only a minority of lawyers will deal with criminal matters.

Stirling

OP I'm sorry but I have to question your motivations based on how you phrased your original question. The Leaving Cert creates this idea of "If I get lots of points I must do a course that requires them/has the necessary status" and if that should never be anyone's motivation for choosing a career. Medicine and Law are so radically difficult in some ways that even asking what is the difference between them is worrying. There are some similarities though in that both require dedication, sacrifices, a lot of hard work and if and when the money comes it really is earned. I won't speak about Medicine but just to give you my background...

I always wanted to do Law and the fact that I was capable of getting, and did get well over 500 points was never a motivation for my decision. Law is a strange profession in that you will hear all sorts of things about needing family history in it or loads of money to survive or get through the system. I have neither and no matter how many horror stories I heard it didn't put me off. You will hit a lot of brick walls in any career path you choose so you want to be absolutely sure that you are committed or you won't make it to the end or you'll hate what you're doing which is even worse. I did my degree in UCC and followed that up with a masters in UCD. Both of these cost me, and my parents, a lot of hassle and expense and in addition to studying through the years I tried to get as much as legal experience as I could through the summers through grovelling and remember most people will be more than happy to do this unpaid.

I have spent the last while doing my entrance exams to Blackhall Place (solicitor training) and am only now, at the age of 23, about to start earning anything after 5 years of really hard studying and I am getting through the process as quickly as you can I have friends in their late 20s who still aren't where I'm at.

For this I will be earning a training wage and working extremely hard and long hours - and I am delighted by this as I can't wait to get involved in real cases and see what law away from the College Library is like. If you are in any way daunted by this then think seriously about your choices as the exact same slog is involved in medicine. On the other hand if you are motivated by real desire and interest in either of the professions then I am sure you will enjoy both the academic side of both and the exciting part of actually doing the jobs after.

However if you are motivated by status/money and aren't prepared to work then remember that status is something that other people have an interest in and as someone doing the job neither it, nor money, will make you happy or lessen the workload of something you chose for the wrong reasons.

Best of luck

degausserxo

Nothingcompares wrote: »

Presumably you're in TY or earlier. The only special subjects you need for either are 2 sciences (physics, chemistry or biology (or derivatives) for medicine. .

In UCD, you need only one lab subject, be it chemistry, physics, biology, physics with chemistry or whatever, but I think that if there's an overload of students applying you need at least HC3 in Chemistry to be considered.

straight_As

degausserxo wrote: »

In UCD, you need only one lab subject, be it chemistry, physics, biology, physics with chemistry or whatever, but I think that if there's an overload of students applying you need at least HC3 in Chemistry to be considered.

I might be wrong, but I think the HC3 in chemistry is only a pre-requisite for those with a 600 point leaving cert and hoping to do the 5 year course instead of six, i.e., skip premed.

Chunky Monkey

In the UK now when you graduate (F1 year) your take home pay will be £14/15 k. This is due to the EWTD, you'll officially only be working 48 hours a week (and if you work more you won't be paid for it). And considering the fact that they will be halving the number of junior doctors here and more than doubling the number of med school places, you'll be lucky if you even have a job when you graduate. EWTD will probably come into affect here in the near future which means you'll get paid less here too. Those ridiculously high wages you hear in the news that doctors are getting are only for the consultants, another post you'll be lucky to get and will take an extreme amount of study and very hard work to get even close to it many, many years after you graduate.

The best reason to do either? Having an insane interest in the subject and the field of work that will get you through the very hard and long slog. Think well before you decide to embark on it and make sure you only choose a career that you know you will love.

Regarding subjects for medicine, considering entry for it is very competitive I'd recommend at least taking chemistry as many schools in the UK (you may have to apply there for back up) require it, apparently because it's a hard subject and is another way of distinguishing between the huge amount of applicants who have the A grades, work/volunteering experience and high UKCAT/BMAT scores.

A physics teacher in my school told me not to do biology but to do physics if I want to do medicine. I couldn't see the sense in that as in medicine you treat the human body so I thought an interest in biology at least would be essential. It turns out there are a lot of medical schools in the UK that also require biology. Never mind what people say about physics being the subject that smart people do and biology the one that dumb people do. Contrary to popular belief, biology is actually quite hard but is also very interesting. As wel as looking at entry requirements, choose subjects that you will enjoy and think you can work towards getting an A1 in.

If you are choosing subjects now, the best thing for you to do is take a look at all the careers you may be interested in, find out what colleges offer courses that you would need to get into these careers, look at the prospectuses and find out what the subject requirements are. For UK schools (if you are interested in going there/having a back up) all their course subject and grade requirements are on the UCAS site.

straight_As

Chunky Monkey wrote: »

Those ridiculously high wages you hear in the news that doctors are getting are only for the consultants, another post you'll be lucky to get and will take an extreme amount of study and very hard work to get even close to it many, many years after you graduate.

I was told by a junior doctor that in his intern year he earned between €70000 and €75000. The only problem was that he was earning at a rate lower than the cleaners. I suppose the motto is that one respect doctors are well paid but in another the contrary is true. A bit of a paradox.:rolleyes:

JC 2K3

lol, Medicine, Law is such a typical combination from prestige seekers. It's funny because there's very little chance that anyone genuinely interested in medicine would be equally interested in law. I mean they're drastically different subjects.

Chunky Monkey

straight_As wrote: »

I was told by a junior doctor that in his intern year he earned between €70000 and €75000. The only problem was that he was earning at a rate lower than the cleaners. I suppose the motto is that one respect doctors are well paid but in another the contrary is true. A bit of a paradox.:rolleyes:

And he was probably working 100+ hour weeks but that will be cut right down to 48 hours with the European Working Time Directive.

I wonder will it affect chances of taking out student loans. Apparently banks are quite welcoming to medicine students at the moment.

Couldn't imagine doing law, sounds very boring, though human rights law could be interesting.

Cokehead Mother

JC 2K3 wrote: »

lol, Medicine, Law is such a typical combination from prestige seekers. It's funny because there's very little chance that anyone genuinely interested in medicine would be equally interested in law. I mean they're drastically different subjects.

I dunno. I'm torn between Maths and English.

Aoibheann

JC 2K3 wrote: »

lol, Medicine, Law is such a typical combination from prestige seekers. It's funny because there's very little chance that anyone genuinely interested in medicine would be equally interested in law. I mean they're drastically different subjects.

I'm awfully sorry to burst that bubble, but I can honestly say that I had an interest in both, and no, it was nothing to do with the prestige. People can have a wide range of interests. There's very few courses on the CAO that I haven't seriously considered at one stage or the other (from medicine to law, maths to english, genetics to architecture) - I'd spend the rest of my life in college if I could. I love learning - not studying, my god, that's painful, but the achievement of learning something new, no matter what area it's in, just gives this amazing feeling.

As regards medicine and law specifically, I've always wanted to do medicine, for as long as I can remember anyway. There were a variety of reasons - seeing doctors in the hospital treating my grannies, one with stroke, one with cancer and realising that I wanted to do what they were doing some day.. my insane interest in all things science, most specifically disease, illness, genetics and the like. I could go on but I fear this post is rambling quite a lot.

There were a few areas of law that I also saw myself going into some day - Human Rights, Family, Criminal. I read cases and cases, what set precedent here, some interesting loophole someone had exploited there. When I really thought about it though, no matter how interesting I found it, I just couldn't go into those areas - Human Rights would get frustrating, Family Law upsetting, Criminal would involve a lot of questioning of my own ethics and morals. Yes, I realise that my studying medicine will lead me to a career which will have all 3 as cons. That doesn't matter though. In the end, after a long period of consideration, I decided that medicine was the career for me. But, and I stress that but, I seriously considered law. Not because of any prestige - I couldn't care less how my job decides my social status - but because I had a genuine interest in it.

Just because the courses are so totally different doesn't mean that people can't honestly consider the two. If medicine and law required 200 points, I'd still be every bit as interested. Not everybody's there just because they can get the points. Some of us actually give a damn!

JC 2K3

Aoibheann Brady wrote: »

I'm awfully sorry to burst that bubble, but I can honestly say that I had an interest in both, and no, it was nothing to do with the prestige. People can have a wide range of interests. There's very few courses on the CAO that I haven't seriously considered at one stage or the other (from medicine to law, maths to english, genetics to architecture) - I'd spend the rest of my life in college if I could. I love learning - not studying, my god, that's painful, but the achievement of learning something new, no matter what area it's in, just gives this amazing feeling.

As regards medicine and law specifically, I've always wanted to do medicine, for as long as I can remember anyway. There were a variety of reasons - seeing doctors in the hospital treating my grannies, one with stroke, one with cancer and realising that I wanted to do what they were doing some day.. my insane interest in all things science, most specifically disease, illness, genetics and the like. I could go on but I fear this post is rambling quite a lot.

There were a few areas of law that I also saw myself going into some day - Human Rights, Family, Criminal. I read cases and cases, what set precedent here, some interesting loophole someone had exploited there. When I really thought about it though, no matter how interesting I found it, I just couldn't go into those areas - Human Rights would get frustrating, Family Law upsetting, Criminal would involve a lot of questioning of my own ethics and morals. Yes, I realise that my studying medicine will lead me to a career which will have all 3 as cons. That doesn't matter though. In the end, after a long period of consideration, I decided that medicine was the career for me. But, and I stress that but, I seriously considered law. Not because of any prestige - I couldn't care less how my job decides my social status - but because I had a genuine interest in it.

Just because the courses are so totally different doesn't mean that people can't honestly consider the two. If medicine and law required 200 points, I'd still be every bit as interested. Not everybody's there just because they can get the points. Some of us actually give a damn!

Well I never said that it wasn't possible for someone to be torn between both, but Medicine and Law is quite a frequent combination and it doesn't add up that there'd be that many people genuinely interested in both. And in any case, if someone'd decided that they wanted to do Medicine, and therefore put it first, surely it'd make lot more sense to put something along the same lines like Pharmacy or Science second, not Law....

Aoibheann

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Well I never said that it wasn't possible for someone to be torn between both, but Medicine and Law is quite a frequent combination and it doesn't add up that there'd be that many people genuinely interested in both. And in any case, if someone'd decided that they wanted to do Medicine, and therefore put it first, surely it'd make lot more sense to put something along the same lines like Pharmacy or Science second, not Law....

They're as far away from medicine as law is.. Ok, granted, there's some overlap, but at the end of the day you're looking at totally different subjects and careers there too! Law wasn't my second choice in the end, I didn't put it on the CAO because of the various reasons I'd decided it wasn't for me. But my CAO was somewhat varied.. Ok, granted I had Veterinary down too. After that though I had Psychology and Maths TSM, Human Genetics, Theoretical Physics and Science. I'd also considered and ruled out a lot of others. But I'd have been happy doing any of the courses I had on my CAO. It's not completely unfathomable and incredible to have an interest in a lot of subjects!

That said, I get what you mean (or what I think you mean!). A lot of people do put down either or both of these subjects just because they can get the points. These people inevitably drop out because it's clearly not right for them - I know a fair few people like that actually. It irritates me because I also know people who were so close to getting medicine, yet just missed out because there's a certain number of people studying it because they can. It's ridiculously unfair, but it's still not right to tar the rest of us with the same brush, y'know?

JC 2K3

Well my point basically was that Medicine, Law is a typical prestige seeker's combination. Now I don't mean to imply that everyone who puts these down as 1 and 2 is a prestige seeker, nor did I mean to imply that having multiple interests was unfathomable, just that there is no obvious link between Medicine and Law and that the amount of people putting down that combination on their CAO is disproportionate, probabilitywise, with the amount of people who would randomly happen to be very interested in both.

Aoibheann

*nods* Get what you mean.. I just have a horrible tendency to go into rants about how we're not all like that! But I definitely see your point.

Chunky Monkey

There's not just prestige seeking, there's thrill seeking too! I'd also be interested in investigative journalism...

Xavi6

Chunky Monkey wrote: »

There's not just prestige seeking, there's thrill seeking too! I'd also be interested in investigative journalism...

Journalism is a good road to go down if you have an interest in a topic but don't necessarily have the ambition or drive to fully pursue it.

I always had an idea that I could do law but had no interest in doing the amount of years it takes to fully qualify. With journalism it is possible for me to still go into that area as a kind of 'commentator' i.e. reporting on cases, sitting in on hearings etc.

The same applies for sports i.e you may not be good enough to play professionally but you can still be involved in the industry. Journalism is very diverse and an option I'd recommned people to look at.

~Candy~

my advice would be go and do a work experience in a hospital and then go to solicitors.. i mean you gotta to like one more than the other ..:o

Jay P

I've said this before on boards. Do no go into law. Believe me, it is not enjoyable work. And believe me, you would be very lucky to get work these days. There is an absoute abundance os solicitors in Ireland. Medecine would be good if you love to help people. But don't do law. I have been told by any solicitor I have met not to do it.Seriously boring work.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

Jay P wrote: »

I've said this before on boards. Do no go into law. Believe me, it is not enjoyable work. And believe me, you would be very lucky to get work these days. There is an absoute abundance os solicitors in Ireland. Medecine would be good if you love to help people. But don't do law. I have been told by any solicitor I have met not to do it.Seriously boring work.

If you're good, you'll get work. There may be an abundance of solicitors, but there's always room for good ones.

If you go to a private school, it'll be easier to get work.

Enjoyment of work is entirelly subjective. Some people may get great satisfaction out of piecing together a watertight case as a solicitor, or out of swinging a jury through sheer rhetoric as a barrister.

In the end it's down to what the OP thinks they will enjoy IMO.

Stirling

Sean_K wrote: »

If you go to a private school, it'll be easier to get work.

Sense of entitlement or what! Competence will also get you work

Jay P

Sean_K wrote: »

If you're good, you'll get work. There may be an abundance of solicitors, but there's always room for good ones.

If you go to a private school, it'll be easier to get work.

Enjoyment of work is entirelly subjective. Some people may get great satisfaction out of piecing together a watertight case as a solicitor, or out of swinging a jury through sheer rhetoric as a barrister.

In the end it's down to what the OP thinks they will enjoy IMO.

While you may be right about there never being enough good ones, there truely is too many. Also the introduction of the Personal Injury Assessment Board hasn't helped one bit.

Solicitor work certainly is not all piecing together a case. Far from it. The solicitor I know is completely fed up with her work, it's all conveyancing, and as you would expect, that's beginning to dry up. On a related note, there's talk that all the convayancing might be deregulated so estate agents would do all that.