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Hotel takes money from Laser Card without permission

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  • 24-02-2008 9:09pm
    #1
    Pixie4
    Closed Accounts Posts: 101 ✭✭


    :eek:Hey all

    By the way,feel free to move tread,tried to get into legal with no success.

    Anyhow,need some free help/advice from those of you out there who may have a good grasp on the law. Long story short,my b/f and I stayed in a hotel a couple of weeks ago. On arrival, I presented my Laser card as the receptionist said it needed to be swiped for payment. I was given a receipt and thought no more of it. Checked out a day later, presented the room card, the receptionist checked the room number on the screen and was happy that all bills were settled as she bade us farewell from the hotel.

    Last week I received a letter in the post from the hotel containing a receipt with a handwritten note on the bottom stating "P.S: You forgot to pay for the second night at the hotel" Initially I was surprised as I took it that we had paid in full as my card was swiped, we received a receipt and on our departure, the receptionist did not bring any outstanding bill to our attention.

    However, on checking the first receipt we received I discovered that the receptionist had charged for one night only.

    And so to my problem. The hotel automatically took the extra nights accommodation from my Laser card on discovering THEIR mistake a week later. They never contacted me to ask my permission to take this money or to inform me that they were taking it. Surely this has to be illegal??? Can somebody please shed some light on the situation for me???

    Cheers in advance!


Comments

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    #2
    leninbenjamin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,983 ✭✭✭leninbenjamin


    i'd say you gave them permission when you handed over your card to be swiped. that's par for the course in any hotel i've been in.


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    #3
    AARRRGH
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,382 ✭✭✭✭AARRRGH


    So if I understand correctly -

    You stayed for two nights. Inititially you were only charged for one night. When the hotel realised their mistake, they charged you for the second night?


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    #4
    Pixie4
    Closed Accounts Posts: 101 ✭✭Pixie4


    Thats exactly what happened dublindude.

    leninbenjamin, the way I understood the matter was that they were taking ALL the money on arrival when she swiped my card, not a week later when they realised THEIR mistake


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    #5
    AARRRGH
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,382 ✭✭✭✭AARRRGH


    Technically they're probably in the wrong, but you're going to have a hard time getting the bank to refund something you should have paid for.

    I'd just forget about it and move on.


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    #6
    Pixie4
    Closed Accounts Posts: 101 ✭✭Pixie4


    Cheers for the reply dublindude, I guess I'm annoyed because I genuinely thought that they took the total amount on check in and then found out that money had been taken from my card without my knowledge....


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    #7
    leninbenjamin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,983 ✭✭✭leninbenjamin


    Pixie4 wrote: »
    leninbenjamin, the way I understood the matter was that they were taking ALL the money on arrival when she swiped my card, not a week later when they realised THEIR mistake

    yeah but what usually happens in places like this, even if you've already paid in advance or through an agent, you'd be asked for your card that they will charge if there are any outstanding bills from room service, vandalism whatnot. maybe she didn't explicitly tell you that, but it's par for the course that you enter into such an agreement when staying in hotels (in my experience at least).


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    #8
    Pixie4
    Closed Accounts Posts: 101 ✭✭Pixie4


    Cheers leninbenjamin, I guess I thought they should have taken it on departure when the mistake should have shown up on screen....ah well, seems like I don't have a case...


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    #9
    MIN2511
    Registered Users Posts: 5,398 ✭✭✭MIN2511


    Most hotels do a Pre-Auth on your credit card and when you check out a Completion. If you used you laser how did they put through a customer/card not present trxn? If i am correct there is no CNP(Customer/Card not present) allowed on laser cards. Call your bank to verify

    Other than that, it was a mistake


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    #10
    jahalpin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,031 ✭✭✭jahalpin


    If you read the form that you sign on check-in/check-out, it states that if the full amount isn't paid that you are responsible for the bill.

    If you did a chargeback, they would fight it as you were legally obliged to pay the full amount. If the chargeback was successful, they would more than likely sue you or refer the matter to a debt collection agency.


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    #11
    RoundyMooney
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭RoundyMooney


    Meh, you stayed two nights, and were billed for two nights. Hotels take CC/debit card info as deposit, for the reasons given above.

    Wonder what would happen if you were silly enough to have a more or less maxed out card, and the hotel subsequently attempted to bill for damages etc. unsuccesfully due to this?

    It must happen on occasion...

    As the guy above me said, debt collection agency would be the order of the day, I guess.


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    #12
    misslt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,103 ✭✭✭misslt


    AFAIK once you give them your laser details for a payment they can use them for any other payment you owe them. Not 100% sure so feel free to correct me

    Although surely courtesy would have meant they let you know before taking it.


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    #13
    AARRRGH
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,382 ✭✭✭✭AARRRGH


    jahalpin wrote: »
    If the chargeback was successful, they would more than likely sue you or refer the matter to a debt collection agency.

    Over €100? Unlikely.

    I used to work as a financial controller and it was only worth our while (due to legal fees, etc.) to pursue amounts over 2k.


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    #14
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Moved from After Hours.


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    #15
    Padraig Mor
    Registered Users Posts: 9,563 ✭✭✭Padraig Mor


    Irrespective of whether you were charged correctly or not initially, AFAIK they should not be able to charge your Laser card without you present - isn't that what Chip and Pin is there for?


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    #16
    MIN2511
    Registered Users Posts: 5,398 ✭✭✭MIN2511


    Padraig Mor wrote: »
    Irrespective of whether you were charged correctly or not initially, AFAIK they should not be able to charge your Laser card without you present - isn't that what Chip and Pin is there for?
    What i said as well, they had no right to do that


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    #17
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,514 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    Having said all the rights and wrongs, you gave the laser to pay them anyways so the receptionist was only following your orders, though a week later and sorting out the whole thing with minimal fuss, charging you for what you expected to be billed for anyways. It would be different if it was an erroneous bill and indeed, you could make a fuss that they shouldn't have done it but to be fair, the hotel was only compelting the transaction and saving everyone hassle having bills flying in both directions.


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    #18
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    Pixie4 wrote: »
    Thats exactly what happened dublindude.

    leninbenjamin, the way I understood the matter was that they were taking ALL the money on arrival when she swiped my card, not a week later when they realised THEIR mistake

    when you gave them your laser card you authorised them to take x amount from your account. they have taken that amount so they've done nothing wrong here. if they charged you for a non-existent third night you'd have a case here
    Padraig Mor wrote: »
    Irrespective of whether you were charged correctly or not initially, AFAIK they should not be able to charge your Laser card without you present - isn't that what Chip and Pin is there for?

    no, it is possible to do it. credit card machines can bypass the pin. the point of it is that if they bypass the pin and the card turns out to be fake they're responsible rather than the issuing bank


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    #19
    BC
    Registered Users Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭BC


    MIN2511 wrote: »
    If i am correct there is no CNP(Customer/Card not present) allowed on laser cards.

    Not true. You can use laser online and over the phone - thats CNP.


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    #20
    IanCurtis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭IanCurtis


    Pixie4 wrote: »
    Cheers leninbenjamin, I guess I thought they should have taken it on departure when the mistake should have shown up on screen....ah well, seems like I don't have a case...

    I'm curious as to what you want from this - your money back?

    Would you have preferred if you had to go all the way back to the hotel to punch your number in?


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    #21
    cast_iron
    Registered Users Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭cast_iron


    Pixie4 wrote: »
    ....ah well, seems like I don't have a case...
    Your case amounts to: you not wanting to pay for what you received?


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    #22
    Padraig Mor
    Registered Users Posts: 9,563 ✭✭✭Padraig Mor


    Sam Vimes wrote: »
    no, it is possible to do it. credit card machines can bypass the pin. the point of it is that if they bypass the pin and the card turns out to be fake they're responsible rather than the issuing bank

    What's the point in Chip and Pin then? I don't think anyone is saying the OP shouldn't have been charged but would it have hurt the hotel to ring and tell them in advance?


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    #23
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    Padraig Mor wrote: »
    What's the point in Chip and Pin then?
    it does make it more secure. while shops physically can bypass the pin, they're not supposed to and if something goes wrong they have full liability and are required to reimburse you. the old non pin system was very insecure so now if a shop decides itself to use it, its not your problem and its not the banks problem
    Padraig Mor wrote: »
    I don't think anyone is saying the OP shouldn't have been charged but would it have hurt the hotel to ring and tell them in advance?
    no i suppose it wouldn't


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    #24
    trellheim
    Registered Users Posts: 5,926 ✭✭✭trellheim


    most hotels if you stay only 1 night will take the whole lot then and there. A night porter for example might if you check in late take 1 nights and then the back office might later take the rest.


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    #25
    Pixie4
    Closed Accounts Posts: 101 ✭✭Pixie4


    Just to clarify a few points:

    I have/had absolutely no problem paying for the service I received. My point was that I assumed they took the entire amount on check-in as one poster mentioned. However what happened was they took for one night, realised a few weeks later that they did not charge for the second night and then took it from my account without asking. Thought it was a bit of a cheek but just seems to be typically Irish for people to take money from your account without informing you. Cheers for the posts.


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    #26
    hoppo254
    Closed Accounts Posts: 145 ✭✭hoppo254


    I dont believe the question of having to pay is the issue it is the fact they used the laser card at a time which the customer was not aware.

    It happened where i worked , manager told a receptionist to charge laser cards for monthly amounts due and to bypass the pin by entering a made up authorisation code.

    The customers in question hadnt entered a pin and some of their mortgage direct debits didnt come out of their accounts due to lack of funds (affecting their credit rating)

    Yes they owed the money and maybe they didnt have it when due but all of the transaction where charged back and an agreed date for payment set when the customer deemed able to pay.


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