Congestion Charging!!!!

-Chris-

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/controversial-congestion-charge-on-way-for-city-centre-motorists-1297106.html


http://www.independent.ie/opinion/editorial/a-fair-deal-for-travelling-public-1297188.html


It's only in discussion stages now and I know it's been mooted for ages, but it scares the crap out of me that it's now being mentioned officially.

I'm hugely concerned of the ham-fisted method our government will implement this...

R.O.R

Something does need to be done about the traffic congestion in Dublin, the City wasn't built to deal with motor traffic at all yet alone to the levels we currently have.

However, it will be impossible to introduce it at the moment until there is some reasonable alternative with public transport. Apparently they are trying to get people off the roads on to the poor excuse for public transport, but with Sky High train ticket prices, and the introduction of parking charges at stations, is that really an incentive for anyone?

pburns

Despite all the whining in trhe British press (including the Top Gear boys), I think it's a really good idea for London.

For Dublin though, with such a backward public transport system - sounds quite worrying...

The train services into Heuston are brutal at the moment - they were actually quite good for a year or two but for whatever reason there has been a massive disimprovement.

The Luas actually works quite well, an efficent service. Probably because it's run by a private company and is not invested with old-school trade unionists.

prendy

cant see this happening for 20 odd years until the Dublin public transport infrastructure catches up with the population.
it would be crazy to introduce the charge without a proper affordible reliable commuter rail and bus network serving ALL comuter areas.


it works in London because they have had the tube and quality bus corridors throughout the city for years.

faceman

without proper transport infrastructure this will be a farce. I just hope that if it is introduced that joe public will protest about it rather than moaning because i certainly will if i am still working in this office. (i would need to get on 3 routes to get to the office at present if i was forced to use public transport)

In london isnt the area of the congestion charge quite small in the scheme of things in london - about 1 mile sq? I could be wrong however.

afatbollix

what happens if you live in the city centre and work out in the suburbs?? you know if i was to take bus i would have to get the 78A which is full of juckies and takes an extra 20 minutes to get there... so there would be no point... and what would be the congestion area? inside the M50? or just o connell street

OTK

faceman wrote: »

In london isnt the area of the congestion charge quite small in the scheme of things in london - about 1 mile sq? I could be wrong however.

I think you are confusing the congsestion zone wuth the 'ring of steel' around the city of london (the square mile). This has been restricting traffic into the financial district since about 1994. It was installed to protect against IRA attacks but was unexpectedly welcomed afterwards as it seemed to improve traffic.

The congestion zone is now about 19 square miles.

Run_to_da_hills

This is just another scam for "Big Brother" to monitor your movements through out the city. The cameras are already in place at almost every main intersection and ready to watch all your movements. For those of you that escape the RFID tracking devices built into the new transit smart cards you will be watched by sofisticated cameras that can pan/tilt and zoom to your registration and see who is driving!.

Londoners were told that this "congestion charge" system would only operate during week days in designated times buy were never told that the cameras would be fully operational 24/7 365. [url] http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/jul/18/humanrights.terrorism[/url]

If you really want to move discreetly about the city ride a push bike and wear a hoodie

Stark

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

If you really want to move discreetly about the city ride a push bike and wear a hoodie

Tinfoil lined of course.

anto-c wrote:

and what would be the congestion area? inside the M50? or just o connell street

Much of the area within the M50 is the jurisdiction of Fingal, Dún Laoighre-Rathdown and South Dublin county councils so DCC couldn't extend the zone to the M50 without their cooperation.

I don't think this is going to happen any time soon tbh.

Rainman1

Have any of you people actually lived in London ?, the public transport system, particularly from the suburbs is a total joke, I ended up leaving and coming home to Ireland because I was sick to death of it. The trains rarely run on time, assuming that they turn up at all, I missed countless meetings and lost so much business because trains simply did not turn up with no reason given. The congestion charge is a 100% city tax on motorists and a way of course to pry on the population, the idea that it reduces congestion is a nonsense as I was forced, like many others, to drive in London if a meeting was crucial as the public transport system didn't work. Livingston is now rolling it out to everywhere within the M25, so now you have to pay a congestion charge to get to the park and ride, what a joke. I would urge all Irish drivers to strongly resist this camera technology, just before I left, I started getting tons of Junk mail, advertising crap in motorway services, openly showing a log of my various journeys up and down the motorway, which effectivly means that the Government not only gains from the speed trap fines, but also makes a packet by selling off individual motorist movements throughout the UK, totally against the data protection act, but the British seem content to put up with it, the only consolation I see in Ireland is that this lot currently in Government are too incompetent to use this technology in the first place.

Stark

Rainman1 wrote: »

the only consolation I see in Ireland is that this lot currently in Government are too incompetent to use this technology in the first place.

I bet they know how to use a full stop though.

Run_to_da_hills

Stark wrote: »

Tinfoil lined of course.

Lead lined would be more effective

dereko1969

did any of you read the article linked?
this will only be brought in when the Metro North and Interconnector are built or are almost completed - so we're talking about 2015. It's very very early to be getting freaked out that this would extend to the M50 - I would think it would be between the canals to begin with and probably stretch as far west as inchicore. i'd be all in favour of a congestion charge when the public transport option is in place.

skyhighflyer

I'm a huge car fan but I would be all in favour of a CC when there's a viable public transport option (i.e. Metro, Luas lines or a proper bus service) - I'm sure this won't be brought in for at least another decade or so. Pisses me off no end seeing so many cars with one driver in them heading into town when at least some of those drivers must live on a LUAS, DART ir reasonable bus line.

Padraig Mor

dereko1969 wrote: »

did any of you read the article linked?
this will only be brought in when the Metro North and Interconnector are built or are almost completed - so we're talking about 2015. It's very very early to be getting freaked out that this would extend to the M50 - I would think it would be between the canals to begin with and probably stretch as far west as inchicore. i'd be all in favour of a congestion charge when the public transport option is in place.

Thing is, once these things start, there's no stopping them. In London, the area of the zone has increased massively and the charge has shot up. Now Livingstone is trying to increase the charge to approx €35/day for cars with emissions over 225 g/km - and that is a lot of cars!

faceman

im sure in 2015 we still be just moaning about it rather than protesting or submitting our voices publically.

Rainman1, ive never lived in the UK but i visit both london and cambridgeshire alot for both business and pleasure and despite its fault, its a fantastic system, particularly the tube. Presumably you are sick of irish transport now and are going to move to, er, isle of man?

Our transport system is comical. A german friend once asked me:

Why do we have 24 hour bus lanes when buses dont run 24 hours? (there are some areas with 24 hour bus lanes for services that cater for 1 bus that runs every hour)

Why do we have a dart that on the southside of the city services the lucky select areas very well, yet have an extremely frequent 48A bus that is often half empty during rush hour? Is it that difficult to move those additional buses to other busier routes?

We may as well open toll boothes along the canal, dame st and o'connell st!!!

Rainman1

faceman wrote: »

Rainman1, ive never lived in the UK but i visit both london and cambridgeshire alot for both business and pleasure and despite its fault, its a fantastic system, particularly the tube. Presumably you are sick of irish transport now and are going to move to, er, isle of man?

Yes, but have you tried to take a tube anywhere in central London at between 07:00 and 08:30 in the morning, we used to call the tube the "Garfield express" because commuters pressed up against the windows, particularly on the Northern line would resemble those Garfield toys you see stuck to car windows, I used to, and still do, commute over and back for business and the tube is excellent for getting from A to B outside the crazy hour, but actually getting to the tube system from the suburbs is where the real fun starts. As regards Ireland, I genuinely choose where I wanted to live on the basis of being able to get around, I had a house in Swords, but the idea of long commutes again put me off, I therefore have settled in Cork, where the city is still "Just about" commutable at rush hour.

faceman

Rainman1 wrote: »

Yes, but have you tried to take a tube anywhere in central London at between 07:00 and 08:30 in the morning, we used to call the tube the "Garfield express" because commuters pressed up against the windows, particularly on the Northern line would resemble those Garfield toys you see stuck to car windows, I used to, and still do, commute over and back for business and the tube is excellent for getting from A to B outside the crazy hour, but actually getting to the tube system from the suburbs is where the real fun starts. As regards Ireland, I genuinely choose where I wanted to live on the basis of being able to get around, I had a house in Swords, but the idea of long commutes again put me off, I therefore have settled in Cork, where the city is still "Just about" commutable at rush hour.

have you tried to take a dart/luas/surbuban train in dublin during rush hour?

In fairness, we cant compare cork to dublin or london!

Stark

Rainman1 wrote:

I therefore have settled in Cork, where the city is still "Just about" commutable at rush hour.

You mean by driving? Because Bus Éireann makes Dublin Bus look like a premium quality service and it's not much fun cycling around the narrow hilly streets. It is small though, so it is fairly possible to buy a house in a location that will allow you to walk into the city centre in less than 45 mins, something most Dubliners could never even dream of.

Run_to_da_hills

The Dart is a total disaster Its infrastructure is based on an old steam railway line that was deliberately kept away from the populations to avoid pollution, hense most of the dart line serves only a 50% catchment area, the other 50% being the seaside.

Rainman1

faceman wrote: »

have you tried to take a dart/luas/surbuban train in dublin during rush hour?

In fairness, we cant compare cork to dublin or london!

I agree, but the point I was making was that I got so fed up of the
inefficiencies of both citys, that I actually made a choice of where to live based on being able to get to work, I would much prefer to live in Dublin as that is where most of my family still live, but when returning from London, the thoughts of crawling to work again, meant that my lifestyle would have been identical to that of London which is what I was trying to get away from. I must admit I did find a successful way of beating London and the congestion charge and that was commuting via motorcycle, obviously not everyones cup of tea, and suicidal unless you're and experienced rider.:eek:

faceman

Rainman1 wrote: »

I agree, but the point I was making was that I got so fed up of the
inefficiencies of both citys, that I actually made a choice of where to live based on being able to get to work, I would much prefer to live in Dublin as that is where most of my family still live, but when returning from London, the thoughts of crawling to work again, meant that my lifestyle would have been identical to that of London which is what I was trying to get away from. I must admit I did find a successful way of beating London and the congestion charge and that was commuting via motorcycle, obviously not everyones cup of tea, and suicidal unless you're and experienced rider.:eek:

its easier to understand your original point given you moved to cork

motorcycles are the only way to commute fullstop!