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Fury at tribute plan for IRA girl Farrell

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    #32
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    Yes too right DJPBarry, its the bad F..ks that seem to get all the notoriety and often celebration. Anyway what would Sinn Fein know about propriety and decency. They appear to laud people who have been involved in terrorism and all that goes with it .


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    #33
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Erin Go Brath wrote: »
    Why don't you commemorate those brave soldiers who gunned down innocent civilians in Derry on Bloody sunday aswell.
    Of course, the IRA never killed any innocent civilians. Oh no, wait...
    Erin Go Brath wrote: »
    I'm sure they're your real heroes anway.
    Yes, of course, anyone who is opposed to the IRA must be a supporter of British imperialism. You're either with us or against us, eh? :rolleyes:


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    #34
    Lemming
    Registered Users Posts: 14,148 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    Erin Go Brath wrote: »
    Commemorate who you want to. Why don't you commemorate those brave soldiers who gunned down innocent civilians in Derry on Bloody sunday aswell. I'm sure they're your real heroes anway.

    And who are yours? The guys who gutted Robert McCartney? Or maybe the thugs who executed an innocent mother in Jean McConville? Shall you be "commemorating" them after they're gunned down by some equally hate-filled thug?


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    #35
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    Although I'm not an IRA supporter, (and that's putting it extremely lightly) I deplored the execution of MF; however, I'm not sure about the wisdom of hosting this in government buildings. I appreciate that it may be a tactical gesture to the grassroots after recent revelations, but it's just playing into the hands of the cracker wing of unionism.

    I'm not sure how tolerant SF would be of, say, an SAS or Billy Wright memorial in state buildings either.


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    #36
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    There must be plenty of decent living women Mrs McCann could have chosen to celibrate on International Womens Day apart from convicted bomber Farrell ~ From Mary Peters to Sonia O'Sullivan, from Mary McAleese to Mary Robinson, from Dana to Enya, from Andrea Corr to Sharon Shannon, to so many other talented good honest Irish women who were'nt in the 'mass murder' business.

    Typical Sinn Fein stunt if you ask me ~ I just wonder whats the real reason for it? apart from getting everybody else steamed up.


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    #37
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    ArthurF wrote: »
    Andrea Corr

    Jaysus, steady on Arthur. There are limits. :)


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    #38
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    Erin Go Brath wrote: »
    Commemorate who you want to. Why don't you commemorate those brave soldiers who gunned down innocent civilians in Derry on Bloody sunday aswell. I'm sure they're your real heroes anway.

    Nah, we tend not to commemorate murderers round these parts.

    Isn't that more Sinn Fein's thing? Will they be holding a commemoration for them when they are finished with Farrell.

    Or is murdering people only ok if you murder them for your side?


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    #39
    Sir Digby Chicken Caesar
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,556 ✭✭✭✭Sir Digby Chicken Caesar


    pretty sure michael collins murdered people too.


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    #40
    Erin Go Brath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭Erin Go Brath


    Lemming wrote: »
    And who are yours? The guys who gutted Robert McCartney? Or maybe the thugs who executed an innocent mother in Jean McConville? Shall you be "commemorating" them after they're gunned down by some equally hate-filled thug?
    Nelson Mandela, if you want me to name my hero.

    I respect the sacrificies people made in the name of Irish freedom, and indeed for parity of esteem in the occupied counties. Many died, or spent years in jail fighting for their beliefs. Labelling them thugs is disingenuous in the extreme.


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    #41
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Sorry about throwing Andrea Corr into the list, but I ran out of names :)


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    #42
    Erin Go Brath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭Erin Go Brath


    djpbarry wrote: »
    Of course, the IRA never killed any innocent civilians. Oh no, wait...
    Yes, of course, anyone who is opposed to the IRA must be a supporter of British imperialism. You're either with us or against us, eh? :rolleyes:
    It doesnt bother me if people detest the IRA, they've commited some terrible crimes theres no getting away from that. What does annoy me is people just blantanly ignore the terror the British Army has inflicted on this country for centuries. Its like the IRA just went about slaughering people for the craic or something according to some of the posters here, completely ignoring the root cause of conflict, and indeed that there were two sides to the conflict, both guilty of atrocities.


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    #43
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,588 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    DUP should hold a simulataneous commemoration of Jean McConville, and invite Sinn Fein to come along and join with them in remembering all the women, mothers, sisters and daughters murdered by terrorism in the northern irish conflict. Possibly Adams can give a speech on the murder of this innocent mother, condemn her brutal torture and murder, and the destruction of the family she left behind. Surely she would make a fitting individual to commemorate on International Womens Day?

    Ah, but then theyd be told to "move on" - SF is only interested in revising the past, not commemorating it.
    Its just the usual crowd of WBrits and Empire apologists who have to make a deal about it and complain as per usual.

    Funny thing is, its actually the people living in Northern Ireland/UK who are the West Brits. SF voter isnt a nationality after all.

    End of the day, SF and their ilk are scum. None of them are that far removed from punishment beatings, murders, organised crime and plenty of the leadership are old hands at it. Hardly surprising in that sort of moral climate that SF consider celebrating a murderer something thats okay. Wasnt too long ago a SF conference was on its feet cheering wildly a group of men who were notable only for throwing nail bombs into resteraunts and begging to be allowed to surrender when faced with actual armed opposition.

    Oh and another thing, the European courts never said the three were murdered. The Gibraltar courts said the killings were lawful, the European Commission of Human Rights said the killings were lawful and referred it to the European Court. The higher court, by a narrow margin, merely stated that it was not convinced the killings were a result of force employed that was proportionate and necessary. Thats all, never said the UK murdered them, just that they went in too heavy.

    Personally, Mairead and her buddies were quite willing to murder musicians, so they should roll with the punches and accept the other side shoots back. After all, isnt it SFIRA theology that they were fighting a war? In war enemies can shoot you when you are not under their control, so either SFIRAs view that it was murder gets a little wobbly when you try to reconcile it to their dogma of being a guerilla army.


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    #44
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    Erin Go Brath wrote: »
    I respect the sacrificies people made in the name of Irish freedom, and indeed for parity of esteem in the occupied counties. Many died, or spent years in jail fighting for their beliefs. Labelling them thugs is disingenuous in the extreme.
    Yes, it does take great sacrifice to blow up children. For this we should applaud those brave men and women :rolleyes:

    Oh that's right, the British made them do it. That's ok then. When the British kill children that is horrific. When the IRA kill children, well that is the British again making them do it. Wonderful, surely then we should be commemorating the British for the sacrafice they made in the cause of Irish freedom


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    #45
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Clammy Todgers wrote: »
    pretty sure michael collins murdered people too.
    Indeed he did - what's your point?
    Erin Go Brath wrote: »
    I respect the sacrificies people made in the name of Irish freedom
    :rolleyes:

    I respect the sacrifices people made in containing the threat posed by the IRA, hence protecting the right to life of innocent civilians.
    Erin Go Brath wrote: »
    Labelling them thugs is disingenuous in the extreme.
    Thugs, murderers, terrorists, criminals, killers, slaughterers, fanatics, extremists, Neanderthals...

    Take your pick - they're all apt.


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    #46
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    Clammy Todgers wrote: »
    pretty sure michael collins murdered people too.

    Pretty sure a lot of people around here think that was equally bad.

    Seriously where did this idea that it is ok to do what ever crime you like so long as you have a "good cause" behind you.

    Michael Collins was a terrorist who used tactics that were highly immoral and illegal. The fact that he was a member of "our side", the fact that he was fighting for a cause I strongly believe in, is totally irrelevant to that. The fact that it worked to gain the ultimate goal of the cause is equally irrelevant.

    The justification of your cause is not justification of your actions. Having a just cause does not make any action carried out for that cause just. Something immoral doesn't become moral just because you win.


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    #47
    GuanYin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,552 ✭✭✭✭GuanYin


    Wicknight wrote: »
    Pretty sure a lot of people around here think that was equally bad.

    Seriously where did this idea that it is ok to do what ever crime you like so long as you have a "good cause" behind you.

    Michael Collins was a terrorist who used tactics that were highly immoral and illegal. The fact that he was a member of "our side", the fact that he was fighting for a cause I strongly believe in, is totally irrelevant to that. The fact that it worked to gain the ultimate goal of the cause is equally irrelevant.

    The justification of your cause is not justification of your actions. Having a just cause does not make any action carried out for that cause just. Something immoral doesn't become moral just because you win.


    I'd disagree. There was a long history and saga that pushed people to the point of 1916. Not least a history or oppression, genocide and brutality by the occupational forces. While MC et als tactic are, by definition, terrorism, and the ends may not have justified the means, they were very different times and a very different English rule than what we see up North now.

    That said, non-violent resistance has historically been the proportionally most effective.


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    #48
    Sir Digby Chicken Caesar
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,556 ✭✭✭✭Sir Digby Chicken Caesar


    djpbarry wrote: »
    Indeed he did - what's your point?
    :rolleyes:

    .

    that we don't mind glorifying murderers 'down here'.


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    #49
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    How many innocent people did Michael Collins kill would be a better question.


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    #50
    Sir Digby Chicken Caesar
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,556 ✭✭✭✭Sir Digby Chicken Caesar


    alot probably, but signifigantly less than churchill, cromwell, blair, thatcher.


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    #51
    Rossibaby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 421 ✭✭Rossibaby


    Clammy Todgers wrote: »
    alot probably, but signifigantly less than churchill, cromwell, blair, thatcher.

    well said


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    #52
    Sir Digby Chicken Caesar
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,556 ✭✭✭✭Sir Digby Chicken Caesar


    ah, so are you willing to admit collins killed innocent people? seems a bit strange given your stance in the other thread.


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    #53
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,201 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    It is always the same here

    Position A: How dare you support a group that kills innocent people
    Position B: They were not the targets and they died as an unfortunate consequence of a conflict

    Most people seem to move effortlessly from Position A to Position B (& back) depending on the conflict. You could count the number of pacifists on one hand


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    #54
    Pen1987
    Closed Accounts Posts: 870 ✭✭✭Pen1987


    wait... did he just compare Nelson Mandela to Mairead Farrell? I must of misread that...


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    #55
    Rossibaby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 421 ✭✭Rossibaby


    Pen1987 wrote: »
    wait... did he just compare Nelson Mandela to Mairead Farrell? I must of misread that...

    you're right dub in glasgow....it's amazing how people can change their story in certain instances.it reeks of hypocrisy...im sure 30 years ago these people would have joined the sheep and labelled mandela a terrorist


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    #56
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Clammy Todgers wrote: »
    that we don't mind glorifying murderers 'down here'.
    Not a fan of Collins myself.
    Clammy Todgers wrote: »
    ah, so are you willing to admit collins killed innocent people?
    Probably; I honestly don't know for sure.


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    #57
    Pen1987
    Closed Accounts Posts: 870 ✭✭✭Pen1987


    Rossibaby... did you misquote? Were you meaning to quote my message in sarcastic way? eh... Mandela was no angel, but he is multiple times the person Mairead Farrell was...


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    #58
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Miread Farrell & her two mates were in Gibraltar on a Bombing mission & the SAS got to them first before the Bomb was planted 'simple as that' but can you imagine what the headlines might have been the next day if the SAS had'nt delt with Farrell & her fellow terrorist scum . . . . . . .

    "Dozens killed on the Rock" many maimed & injured as suspected IRA terrorist cell strikes, bits of human bodies strewn all over the road, bits of Horses too, many tourists also killed, maimed & dismembered bodies everywhere, etc, etc, etc .................

    Thankfully this time the SAS got the 'would be' perpetrators first.


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    #59
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Clammy Todgers wrote: »
    alot probably, but signifigantly less than churchill, cromwell, blair, thatcher.

    Jesus, here we go again.

    Churchill was PM when Dresen was bombed, that makes bombing of innocent people by the Irish accpetable then. The Birmingham pub bombings are all the fault of Oliver Cromwell I suppose, or maybe we should blame the Irish confederates, if they had kept out of the English Civl war then Cromwell would never have come here in the first place.

    tit for tat arguements are pointless, the IRA considered themselves to be in a war, which was their justification for killing innocent people. three IRA operatives went to Gib to kill people, got caught and were shot. How does this make them respectable people?

    Stormont should be holding memorials for the innocent people who were murdered, the people of Omagh, the two boys in Warrington, the people who died in Le Mon, people murdered in a bookies. Not glorifying the people who carried out these attrocities.


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    #60
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    PSI: Las Vegas wrote: »
    I'd disagree. There was a long history and saga that pushed people to the point of 1916. Not least a history or oppression, genocide and brutality by the occupational forces. While MC et als tactic are, by definition, terrorism, and the ends may not have justified the means, they were very different times and a very different English rule than what we see up North now.

    If you accept that the ends didn't justify the means what exactly are you disagreeing with?


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    #61
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    Rossibaby wrote: »
    you're right dub in glasgow....it's amazing how people can change their story in certain instances.it reeks of hypocrisy...im sure 30 years ago these people would have joined the sheep and labelled mandela a terrorist

    The MK (military wing of the ANC) were a terrorist organisation and at times a pretty nasty one at that (similar to the IRA). They executed members of the government and planted bombs in public places in effort to kill military and government members (and ended up killing civilians as well).

    As for Mandela I'm not sure about his involvement in these. When he formed the MK they were involved in sabotage rather than terrorism. The heavy campaigns began in the 70s when Mandela was in jail. He did say later on that the ANC and MK had violated human rights in their campaigns, though I don't know did he take personal responsibility for that.


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