Fury at tribute plan for IRA girl Farrell

BostonFenian

Fratton Fred wrote: »

it did take 80 years though, I'm not sure the people of the south want to go back to the 80s.

Try living over here for a while and maybe you will change your view a bit. the people of Ireland are tired of violence and want a peaceful resolution. it is easy to have romantic notions of a united Ireland when you don't live here.

There are a lot of realities to face, for example a disproportionate number of people in the north work in the civil service and also get free health care under the NHS would they give up their jobs and health service for the sake of being able to be governed by Dublin rather than London? it's a big question.

I understand that, completely. I don't pretend to share the experience of someone who's lived there. I sincerely meant that, but on the other hand, it doesn't mean that I don't sincerely care. The only reason I was born is because two different people who fled Ireland met here, and that's certainly colored my perspective.

I've read a lot of history, and have so much respect and admiration, and yes, pride for all of the proud Irish who have done so much over the centuries for their nation, at such great sacrifice, that it really makes me so sad to see the dream given up at the very threshold of achieving it.

Why did they give so much, I wonder sometimes. What would O'Niel, Parnell, Connolly, O'Sullivan, any of the earls say?

And just so you understand it's not purely academic for me, I'm in the process of claiming citizenship through descent, and plan on settling in Cork before too much longer goes by.

Pathfinder

Wicknight wrote: »

While I don't in any way support the unlawful execution of Ms Farrell by the SAS, I'm not quite sure why anyone would want to hold a memorial for her. She was trying to blow up a military band (a band FFS, in Gibraltar FFS) in a public street while they paraded, a bomb that would probably have killed many many people. While her death was a crime (according to the EU Court of Human Rights), she was conspiring to murder people herself, so it is hard to find sympathy for her.

Her boyfriend was an SAS member, theres even pics of them together. Apparently she was abit of a girl.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Violent-Delights-Scott-Graham/dp/1857821963


Synopsis
The true stoy of a tragic love affair between an heroic SAS operative and an IRA terrorist. Scott Graham was decorated for hereoism in Northern Ireland and the Falklands, and he fought battles in which more than a dozen IRA terrorists were killed. Mairead Farrell was petite, young and darkly beautiful and she planted bombs for the IRA. Together the two shared a deadly and terrible secret. They loved one another, against the taboos of both their armies, for 14 years. The clandestine love affair reached its crescendo with one of the most controversial incidents in the history of the SAS.

Zombrex

Pathfinder wrote: »

Her boyfriend was an SAS member, theres even pics of them together. Apparently she was abit of a girl.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Violent-Delights-Scott-Graham/dp/1857821963


Synopsis
The true stoy of a tragic love affair between an heroic SAS operative and an IRA terrorist. Scott Graham was decorated for hereoism in Northern Ireland and the Falklands, and he fought battles in which more than a dozen IRA terrorists were killed. Mairead Farrell was petite, young and darkly beautiful and she planted bombs for the IRA. Together the two shared a deadly and terrible secret. They loved one another, against the taboos of both their armies, for 14 years. The clandestine love affair reached its crescendo with one of the most controversial incidents in the history of the SAS.

Well, thats the rumor. Graham seemingly has trouble actually demonstrating any of it actually happened, and the "close friends and family" of Farrell say it is a complete fabrication. Though of course they probably would even if it were true. Haven't read the book, but the version I heard was that she didn't know he was in the SAS.

Pathfinder

Wicknight wrote: »

Well, thats the rumor. Graham seemingly has trouble actually demonstrating any of it actually happened, and the "close friends and family" of Farrell say it is a complete fabrication. Though of course they probably would even if it were true. Haven't read the book, but the version I heard was that she didn't know he was in the SAS.

Its not a rumour, there are photos of them together in his book.

duggie-89

Wicknight wrote: »

Ok, off you go. Lambast them all.

Tell us that what the IRA did was completely wrong and unjustified. Tell us that what Farrell was going in Gibraltar was completely wrong and immoral. Tell us that the IRA "war" was immoral and unjustified.

Or tell us that none of the above is true, but that the British were also justified in what they did in response to the IRA. Tell us that the shooting of innocent civilians in Derry by the British Army was perfectly fine (it was fine for the IRA after all wasn't it). Tell us that the killing of Farrell was justified (the IRA after all shot enemies without trail or due process).

You are in fact doing the very thing you are giving out about everyone else doing. :rolleyes:

ok you see thats the point i am not i am only pointing out the cheech and two faced ness of the british forces in carrying out their "holier than thou" actions.

i have no prob in condeming the killing of civilians, i have no prob at all in saying that the innocent the IRA killed should be remembered and the ira blamed and condem for their deaths. but i am also saying lets look at this on the other hand. do you believe in the killing of off duty udr soldiers?? who were unarmed at the time??? (please note of duty is when there unarmed and not in the middle of an operation) if you do then you must also condon the killing of the Gibraltar 3.. its that simple!!!

the main point of this thread is not about civilians but about recognising all soldiers who died in combat. if you protest about ppl remebering their soldiers then thats fine but get off this thread and let those who wish to remember there dead in peace.

lemming: republicans in the north dont hate the "republic" i can only speak for myself and other republicans i know. we hate the fake republic that is set up in the south. all republic's have two elected chambers we only have one (the senetate being apointed by the dail mainly). most other republic's also have the president with more powers than their PM. most republic's aren't as corrupt and a waste of tax payers money than your so called republic in the south.

so you can have your stinking "republic" and we as a new age republicans will strive to build a fair republic for the people. a people who will suffer after the futue credit crunch, because of the bad planning and lets build whatever for the money of it now attitiude of the recent FF gov.

also yes free healthcare is important but thats something that true socialist republicans must strive to achieve in the south. (ie to the same extent as the north, if not better, but with mary harney's diredction we will be doing well to balance the ship up and stop it sinking)

duggie-89

Also i would like to bring things back on topic.

the whole remembrance of marid farell. the setting is in stormont. and for all those who oppose this brief remembrance of a figure in the republican community but you must also remember that things go two ways and there is a statue of carson right in front of the building. carson the man who helped set up the UVF and who's sectarian policies helped divide the north for generations to come!!

and what about criag who is also buried in the grounds. (which is basically a shrine to loyalism in the stormont grounds) thats the same criag who stated a Protestant parilament for a protestant people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Carson

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Craig%2C_1st_Viscount_Craigavon

now can some one honestly tell me that a simple remebrance cermony is going to far and pushing people to the brink of furry. while serveal statues of figures who played a much more leading role in causing tension in the north remain ever day.

lets have some decency and rational responses to this thread and no more gutter sniping republicans.

murphaph

duggie-89 wrote: »

carson the man who helped set up the UVF and who's sectarian policies helped divide the north for generations to come!!

I would say the biggest divider of the two communities in Northern Ireland over the last 100 years was the PIRA. In any case, Carson was a dub who wanted the whole of Ireland to remain in the UK. He was a unionist who was proud to call himself irish. The Provisional Irish Republican Army have ensured that many/most prods in NI now refer to themselves solely as Ulstermen/British. Well done the 'RA.

duggie-89 wrote: »

and what about criag who is also buried in the grounds. (which is basically a shrine to loyalism in the stormont grounds) thats the same criag who stated a Protestant parilament for a protestant people.

Graig said that in response to De Valera's comment about a catholic country for a catholic people!

Lemming

duggie-89 wrote: »

Also i would like to bring things back on topic.

the whole remembrance of marid farell. the setting is in stormont. and for all those who oppose this brief remembrance of a figure in the republican community but you must also remember that things go two ways and there is a statue of carson right in front of the building. carson the man who helped set up the UVF and who's sectarian policies helped divide the north for generations to come!!

and what about criag who is also buried in the grounds. (which is basically a shrine to loyalism in the stormont grounds) thats the same criag who stated a Protestant parilament for a protestant people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Carson

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Craig%2C_1st_Viscount_Craigavon

now can some one honestly tell me that a simple remebrance cermony is going to far and pushing people to the brink of furry. while serveal statues of figures who played a much more leading role in causing tension in the north remain ever day.

lets have some decency and rational responses to this thread and no more gutter sniping republicans.

But this isn't a discussion on Craig or Carson. It's a discussion about SF/IRA trying to stir sh*te (to cover something else) by "celebrating" a terrorist ( Mairead Farrell) who was killed whilst preparing to carry out another senseless terrorist act. So stop pointing at something else and start dealing with the topic at hand.

Since you point out Craig & Carson I'll ask a couple of highly relevant questions which you have conveniently ignored: How long has that Carson statue been there? How long has Craig been buried there?

Pathfinder

duggie-89 wrote: »

ok you see thats the point i am not i am only pointing out the cheech and two faced ness of the british forces in carrying out their "holier than thou" actions.

i have no prob in condeming the killing of civilians, i have no prob at all in saying that the innocent the IRA killed should be remembered and the ira blamed and condem for their deaths. but i am also saying lets look at this on the other hand. do you believe in the killing of off duty udr soldiers?? who were unarmed at the time??? (please note of duty is when there unarmed and not in the middle of an operation) if you do then you must also condon the killing of the Gibraltar 3.. its that simple!!!

the main point of this thread is not about civilians but about recognising all soldiers who died in combat. if you protest about ppl remebering their soldiers then thats fine but get off this thread and let those who wish to remember there dead in peace.

lemming: republicans in the north dont hate the "republic" i can only speak for myself and other republicans i know. we hate the fake republic that is set up in the south. all republic's have two elected chambers we only have one (the senetate being apointed by the dail mainly). most other republic's also have the president with more powers than their PM. most republic's aren't as corrupt and a waste of tax payers money than your so called republic in the south.

so you can have your stinking "republic" and we as a new age republicans will strive to build a fair republic for the people. a people who will suffer after the futue credit crunch, because of the bad planning and lets build whatever for the money of it now attitiude of the recent FF gov.

also yes free healthcare is important but thats something that true socialist republicans must strive to achieve in the south. (ie to the same extent as the north, if not better, but with mary harney's diredction we will be doing well to balance the ship up and stop it sinking)

Theres a big difference morally between soldiers shooting terrorists, who are possibly armed and planning to carry out an atrocity, and the PIRA shooting or putting a bomb under the car of a UDR or RUC member on their way to collect their kids from school.

Can't you see the difference ?

Zombrex

Pathfinder wrote: »

Its not a rumour, there are photos of them together in his book.

Well photos demonstrate they met each other, not that they had a 12 year relationship. Not saying it didn't happen, just saying that I've read there are problems with his version of events.

Zombrex

duggie-89 wrote: »

ok you see thats the point i am not i am only pointing out the cheech and two faced ness of the british forces in carrying out their "holier than thou" actions.

Why are you pointing this out? What has it got to do with Mairead Farrell?

Your first comment on this thread was this

"she was a freedom fighter who was gunned down in the street. they were not armed and there is no proof they were there to kill anyone."

Followed by -

"if you ask me its a shared future and part of that future is remebering our dead and the event was booked long ago."

So initially you seemed to be all for remembering her as a "our dead" and a "freedom fighter". Do you still stand by that or are you now saying you have changed your mind?

And if you haven't changed your mind how can you reconcile her rememberence with the fact that the was an IRA bomber who, according to the ECHR, as in Gibraltar to killing a marching band and anyone unlucky enough to be sitting around her.

duggie-89 wrote: »

i have no prob in condeming the killing of civilians, i have no prob at all in saying that the innocent the IRA killed should be remembered and the ira blamed and condem for their deaths.

Well your definition of "condemning" might be a bit different to mine if you think holding a public rememberence for an IRA bomber falls under condemning IRA bombers.

duggie-89 wrote: »

if you do then you must also condon the killing of the Gibraltar 3.. its that simple!!!

I condemned the killing of the Gibraltar 3 from the very first post in this thread, though I reject the idea that these people were "off-duty"

And interesting question for you given that you claim to condemn the killing of civilians, if the Gibraltar 3 had actually planted their bomb and were about to set it off (as the ECHR determined the SAS men honestly believed at the time of the shooting), would you have approved of their shooting?

duggie-89 wrote: »

the main point of this thread is not about civilians but about recognising all soldiers who died in combat.

No the main point of this thread is the "fury" at Sinn Fein having a public rememberence of a woman who was trying to kill innocent people, fury I agree with.

Would you support the British Army remembering at Stormont the Bloody Sunday soldiers who shot and killed people like John Duddy or P.J Doherty?

Heck the English rugby team can't even come to Croke Park without Sinn Fein protesting, yet SF think it is ok to celebrate a terrorist in Stormont. Its nonsense.

duggie-89 wrote: »

lemming: republicans in the north dont hate the "republic" i can only speak for myself and other republicans i know. we hate the fake republic that is set up in the south.

So you hate the republic then.

duggie-89 wrote: »

all republic's have two elected chambers we only have one (the senetate being apointed by the dail mainly). most other republic's also have the president with more powers than their PM.

I assume by "all republics" you aren't including the USA, since they didn't have direct elections to their Senate until 1917, or France since their Senate is still elected indirectly through locally elected officials.

I can't really blame you, the USA and France wouldn't be the first countries one would think about when they think about "republics" :rolleyes:

duggie-89 wrote: »

so you can have your stinking "republic" and we as a new age republicans will strive to build a fair republic for the people.

Yeah good luck with that. You might want to start by learning what a "republic" actually is.

McArmalite

Pathfinder wrote: »

Her boyfriend was an SAS member, theres even pics of them together. Apparently she was abit of a girl.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Violent-Delights-Scott-Graham/dp/1857821963


Synopsis
The true stoy of a tragic love affair between an heroic SAS operative and an IRA terrorist. Scott Graham was decorated for hereoism in Northern Ireland and the Falklands, and he fought battles in which more than a dozen IRA terrorists were killed. Mairead Farrell was petite, young and darkly beautiful and she planted bombs for the IRA. Together the two shared a deadly and terrible secret. They loved one another, against the taboos of both their armies, for 14 years. The clandestine love affair reached its crescendo with one of the most controversial incidents in the history of the SAS.

I don't know who is the bigger fantasist, you or the out and out Walter Mitty who wrote that sh!te. My God, what next, Elvis lives, the earth is flat ...........:rolleyes:

LordSutch

Farrell memorial banned/

A Stormont memorial for convicted bomber Mairead Farrell, one of three IRA members shot dead by the SAS in Gibraltar 20 years ago, was banned tonight/ media sources various.

The Sinn Fein-backed commemoration was due to take place in the Long Gallery at Parliament Buildings (Stormont) tomorrow as part of celebrations to mark International Women`s Day.

However, the Assembly`s governing body decided it was not appropriate to hold the controversial & devisive event in the 'shared space' Long Gallery. The celibration of the life of convicted IRA bomber Miread farrell will now take place in Stormont's Sinn Fein office.

Finally 'common sense has prevailed' and the matter has reached its final conclusion.

Pathfinder

ArthurF wrote: »

Farrell memorial banned/

A Stormont memorial for convicted bomber Mairead Farrell, one of three IRA members shot dead by the SAS in Gibraltar 20 years ago, was banned tonight/ media sources various.

The Sinn Fein-backed commemoration was due to take place in the Long Gallery at Parliament Buildings (Stormont) tomorrow as part of celebrations to mark International Women`s Day.

However, the Assembly`s governing body decided it was not appropriate to hold the controversial & devisive event in the 'shared space' Long Gallery. The celibration of the life of convicted IRA bomber Miread farrell will now take place in Stormont's Sinn Fein office.

Finally 'common sense has prevailed' and the matter has reached its final conclusion.

Lets not forget she was previously jailed for planting bombs in a hotel, she got her just reward,if they had succeeded they would have murdered and maimed many.

Raintonite

I'm surprised anyone defends Republicanism on this site. Why do you waste your time? The same "outraged" headbangers always write the opening salvo and then the merry little men all pile in to tell say why Republicanism is sooo bad. I'm quite sure that not one of these "outraged" posters lived through the troubles and more to the point not one of them experienced the pleasures of attention from the crown forces or the RUC or lived with institutionalised sectarianism. Save your time and let them re-write history to suit themselves.

GuanYin

Raintonite wrote: »

I'm surprised anyone defends Republicanism on this site. Why do you waste your time? The same "outraged" headbangers always write the opening salvo and then the merry little men all pile in to tell say why Republicanism is sooo bad. I'm quite sure that not one of these "outraged" posters lived through the troubles and more to the point not one of them experienced the pleasures of attention from the crown forces or the RUC or lived with institutionalised sectarianism. Save your time and let them re-write history to suit themselves.

Having two sides of a POV is kinda the whole point of debate and discussion. If you don't like it, or don't want to contribute, don't post. If you don't have anything to add to the topic of the discussion, I suggest you don't post.

Raintonite

PSI: Las Vegas wrote: »

Having two sides of a POV is kinda the whole point of debate and discussion. If you don't like it, or don't want to contribute, don't post. If you don't have anything to add to the topic of the discussion, I suggest you don't post.

This is my POV for Republicans and my two cents added. So there:p.

A Dub in Glasgo

Pathfinder wrote: »

Lets not forget she was previously jailed for planting bombs in a hotel, she got her just reward,if they had succeeded they would have murdered and maimed many.

You mean she got her just reward for the conviction ie prison or she got her just reward for something that did not happen ie she was executed by the British without a trial? Interesting non violent response there

twasantis

seriously annoying stuff!!!!!!!are people just making remarks for the sake of having an argument????????? the woman is dead,may she RIP...

god help anyone here who has say a family member killed in no matter what circumstances and it becomes a topic for the most hipocritical s**t i ever heard, much like this....

what ever way u look at it, she was murdered...what she was doing there is of no relavence!!!two wrongs dont make a right in any language!!

MEDIA OPINION MAKES SOMEONE A TERRORIST!!!!!!
HISTORY DECIDES IF THEY ARE A FREEDOM FIGHTER!!!!

its very easy to sit and make judgement..turn on your tv and u will see killings going on everywere!!!yet we live in a country that (a)allows USA use our airports,while they are killing innocent people!!
(b)invests in companys that create the bombs been used for these killings(c)done fecking nothing to intervene in the troubles and left it for people like mairead farrell to do WHAT SHE BELIEVED WAS RIGHT!!!

if people want to commemerate her let them...them who dont like it,DONT GO!!!!

as i said in my first post, i dont think stormont is place for it!!!but on grounds diff to op....

LordSutch

Thankfully the 'celebration' was banned in the Long Gallery & the Shinners had their own little salute in their own little private space as oppose to the 'shared space' which is where they wanted to celebrate their dead bomber.

Harsh words maybe? but when you remember what IRA bombs did to so many, then thankfully she was 'taken-out' before she could bereave many other families as the IRA had done on so many other occassions.

gandalf

Firstly I remember the day they were shot on the rock and was shocked. Yes they should have been arrested in an ideal world. However they were there to maim, murder and kill. They were after those well known elite soldiers of a band, those enemies of a united ireland tourists.

The fact Sinn Fein tried this shows they are not moving forward at all, but still concentrating on one-upmanship and triumphalism thus demonstrating how unfit they are to hold office. I see the old excuse coming out from the pro-chuckie brigade here that they were bad so we can be bad too.

Having visited Gibraltar a few years ago it struck me how narrow the streets were. At the location where the band played and the bomb was going to be planted the destruction would have been terrible and would have imho been of the same scale as the Omagh atrocity. I'm sure some of you would have greeted this as an acceptable "operation" but personally I am glad they didn't taint the name Irish any more with this attempted butchery.

djpbarry

twasantis wrote: »

what she was doing there is of no relavence!!!

:rolleyes:

twasantis wrote: »

MEDIA OPINION MAKES SOMEONE A TERRORIST!!!!!!
HISTORY DECIDES IF THEY ARE A FREEDOM FIGHTER!!!!

Mairead Farrell was a convicted terrorist.

twasantis wrote: »

... left it for people like mairead farrell to do WHAT SHE BELIEVED WAS RIGHT!!!

Turns out she was wrong.

twasantis

gandalf wrote: »

Firstly I remember the day they were shot on the rock and was shocked. Yes they should have been arrested in an ideal world. However they were there to maim, murder and kill. They were after those well known elite soldiers of a band, those enemies of a united ireland tourists.

The fact Sinn Fein tried this shows they are not moving forward at all, but still concentrating on one-upmanship and triumphalism thus demonstrating how unfit they are to hold office. I see the old excuse coming out from the pro-chuckie brigade here that they were bad so we can be bad too.

Having visited Gibraltar a few years ago it struck me how narrow the streets were. At the location where the band played and the bomb was going to be planted the destruction would have been terrible and would have imho been of the same scale as the Omagh atrocity. I'm sure some of you would have greeted this as an acceptable "operation" but personally I am glad they didn't taint the name Irish any more with this attempted butchery.

anything that resembles the omagh atrocity can not be greeted as acceptable by any right thinking human.....

but u cannot say to kill one person is acceptable an unacceptable to kill another,which is wat is said when you accept that the sas were in their right to kill them..."attempted butchery"?????????every year in this country the government and people celebrate the death of those killed in the easter rising,yet those who follow the proclamation that those very people stood for,are considered terrorists...much like these people were at the time!!!but history makes them hereoes,and rightly so....but hypocrits stand to a national anthem and at the same time condem the rights of people who believe in the right to one nation free to govern its ownself!

how can people be so blind as to the fact that wat maired farrell was and should be remembered as is a courages women...whoes murder was planned and executed in the same cold blooded way as those murders been committed by military armies who holds arms and use them
in any way they feel is justified!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thatcher herself said"murder is murder is murder"

but.........
it only depends on what side of the fence u look at it from!!!!!if its justified or not???
therfore is any murder justifiable????

twasantis

djpbarry wrote: »

:rolleyes:
Mairead Farrell was a convicted terrorist.
Turns out she was wrong.

nowhere in her conviction is the word terrorist used or mentioned!!!!


and how exactly was she wrong??

gandalf

twasantis wrote: »

anything that resembles the omagh atrocity can not be greeted as acceptable by any right thinking human.....

Nice words :rolleyes:

but u cannot say to kill one person is acceptable an unacceptable to kill another,which is wat is said when you accept that the sas were in their right to kill them..."attempted butchery"?????????

Well as was stated the SAS troops that shot them were under the impression that a bomb was planted and was capable of being remotely detonated. Now maybe their superiors knew otherwise but the men who engaged the "3 tourists" didn't. Given the IRA's well known hatred of Brass Band music then they were right to ensure people were protected.

every year in this country the government and people celebrate the death of those killed in the easter rising,yet those who follow the proclamation that those very people stood for,are considered terrorists...much like these people were at the time!!!but history makes them hereoes,and rightly so....but hypocrits stand to a national anthem and at the same time condem the rights of people who believe in the right to one nation free to govern its ownself!

This is the major problem with Republicanism, it is so backward looking. 1916 was a totally different time to now, christ 10 years ago is totally different to Ireland now. No one is condemning any rights for people to aspire to whatever ideals they want. However who the hell down here wants Northern Ireland to join with us if the 2 communities there DO NOT RESPECT each other. This whole incident shows how backward and petty the so called changed Sinn Fein are.

All I see from you are sound bites.

how can people be so blind as to the fact that wat maired farrell was and should be remembered as is a courages women...

Did she bomb that well known military target known as a Hotel maybe. Was she not on a mission to attack a band and tourist area. An attack if it occurred would have tainted this country with even more unnecessary innocent blood.

She was a cold blooded murdering bitch who in turn was murdered by a state trained murdering bastard.

whoes murder was planned and executed in the same cold blooded way as those murders been committed by military armies who holds arms and use them
in any way they feel is justified!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By that logic NONE of the cold blooded murders carried out by the IRA are justified either. Is that your position, do you agree that none of the murders carried out by the IRA were justified. What about Jean McConville was that justified. If Sinn Fein have changed they should have a memorial to that woman.

thatcher herself said"murder is murder is murder"

but.........
it only depends on what side of the fence u look at it from!!!!!if its justified or not???
therfore is any murder justifiable????

So again I take it that you agree that all the murders carried out by the IRA were unjustified ?

Sand

what ever way u look at it, she was murdered...what she was doing there is of no relavence!!!

Bollocks - she was there to murder people. She was killed before she could do so, saving all the lives of her the people she intended to murder and maim. Too bad, so sad.

Her family may be upset, but they raised a psychotic monster in their midst so theyre probably upset to begin with. The families of all the people Farrell intended to murder still have their loved ones with them, so in the balance her death was very much a good thing.

I'm surprised anyone defends Republicanism on this site.

I'm surprised too - terrorism is indefensible.

Youd never hear the Provos advocating the right of the Shankill Butchers to defend their community by abducting, torturing and murdering people. But somehow they believe their terrorists were good honourable decent guys, who were forced to abduct, torture and murder mothers like Jean McConville [ and so many others ] to defend their community.

Its just completely brainwashed stupidity in a can tbh. Theres no reason, logic or principles in Provo thinking. Its simply "Because the Provos say so!" It worked better when they were still dragging people out of bars and murdering them if they were crossed. Oh wait, they still are.

Finally 'common sense has prevailed' and the matter has reached its final conclusion.

Yep, good to see common decency will be upheld. That the Provos even proposed it shows the moral vaccum theyre living in.

twasantis

gandalf wrote: »

Nice words :rolleyes:



Well as was stated the SAS troops that shot them were under the impression that a bomb was planted and was capable of being remotely detonated. Now maybe their superiors knew otherwise but the men who engaged the "3 tourists" didn't. Given the IRA's well known hatred of Brass Band music then they were right to ensure people were protected.



This is the major problem with Republicanism, it is so backward looking. 1916 was a totally different time to now, christ 10 years ago is totally different to Ireland now. No one is condemning any rights for people to aspire to whatever ideals they want. However who the hell down here wants Northern Ireland to join with us if the 2 communities there DO NOT RESPECT each other. This whole incident shows how backward and petty the so called changed Sinn Fein are.

All I see from you are sound bites.



Did she bomb that well known military target known as a Hotel maybe. Was she not on a mission to attack a band and tourist area. An attack if it occurred would have tainted this country with even more unnecessary innocent blood.

She was a cold blooded murdering bitch who in turn was murdered by a state trained murdering bastard.



By that logic NONE of the cold blooded murders carried out by the IRA are justified either. Is that your position, do you agree that none of the murders carried out by the IRA were justified. What about Jean McConville was that justified. If Sinn Fein have changed they should have a memorial to that woman.



So again I take it that you agree that all the murders carried out by the IRA were unjustified ?

no...i do believe that in the the situation of an UNJUST occupation by a foreign force,in ANY country that the people of that country do have and always will have a right to resist and forcefully if need be!!!!a bomb in the middle of a street thats kills innocent civillians is wrong!!!!!a military target.ie.army!is part of any war!!and those army members a trained to do just that themselves...

but no matter what way u say it happened,remember the british had an open SHOOT TO KILL POLICY!!!!these situations happen world wide today,and are common place as we speak!!!so in all fairness i go back to wat i said,it is how u view it..we can agree to dis agree i think...

but its like asking is it ok to kill one child to save the lives of 10!!its a moral issue,that only oneself can answer to there own beliefs!!!!!

i dont totally disagree wit u,i just see it differantly!!!sorry

twasantis

I Cannot Believe I Will Dignify U Wit Answer, But Seriously U Honestly Gonna Slate Her Family Saying They Reared A Monster????????


Grow Up!!!

Sand

I Cannot Believe I Will Dignify U Wit Answer, But Seriously U Honestly Gonna Slate Her Family Saying They Reared A Monster????????


Grow Up!!!

They raised her. She was a monster. Logically that implies they raised a monster. Or were they completely unaware of her activities and links with the Provos? Even after her conviction?

remember the british had an open SHOOT TO KILL POLICY!!!!

DID THEY?!?!?! Those bastards!!! Imagine shooting someone with the intent of killing them?!?! Monsters arent they

/sarcasm - If you are shooting someone, you are by default trying to kill them or inflict grievous bodily harm on them - you aim at the center of their body, and keep shooting till they go down. And no - shooting guns out of peoples hands only happens in movies.

gandalf

twasantis wrote: »

no...i do believe that in the the situation of an UNJUST occupation by a foreign force,in ANY country that the people of that country do have and always will have a right to resist and forcefully if need be!!!!a bomb in the middle of a street thats kills innocent civillians is wrong!!!!!a military target.ie.army!is part of any war!!and those army members a trained to do just that themselves...

The target was a band, they are trained to play instruments. As I said the so called army council of the IRA must really hate brass band music. Also more tourists would have been maimed and killed than bands men.

but no matter what way u say it happened,remember the british had an open SHOOT TO KILL POLICY!!!!these situations happen world wide today,and are common place as we speak!!!so in all fairness i go back to wat i said,it is how u view it..we can agree to dis agree i think...

Again the belief was there was a bomb placed and it was a remote detonated device. In this case there was going to be one outcome. I realise that the British conducted themselves in a disgraceful fashion in NI but it doesn't give someone an excuse to blow up innocents. Anyone who uses that as justification has a really warped sense of morality.

but its like asking is it ok to kill one child to save the lives of 10!!its a moral issue,that only oneself can answer to there own beliefs!!!!!

i dont totally disagree wit u,i just see it differantly!!!sorry

Let me rephrase that for you is it right to kill 3 people who are planning on killing multiples of others some military (of the softest variety) and many civilians?

As I said in my first post on this thread, in an ideal world they would have been arrested. Then again in an ideal world people would not plant bombs that would kill mainly innocents whose only crime was probably sneaking the duty free they bought accross the border back into Spain.