Falling at the last hurdle...

raemie21

Sorry about the running pun but it does describe what's going for me at the moment

Essentially, feeling like crap over past ten days or so & supposed to be aiming for a 4hour marathon in Paris in seven weeks. It will be my first one and I'm just finding these last runs really tough, mentally, physically and anyway you like it.

I'm not going to lie, I haven't been following a steady schedule but I've been working hard in my own way over the past five/six months. Doing three shorter runs mid week and then the long run on a Sunday. Four weeks ago I ran 16miles in 2.30hours and felt pretty good & that I could improve on that. My runs mid-week were going according to plan and was generally optimistic about Paris. Then I can't say exactly when I noticed a change but to get to basics, I've struggled with the mid week shorter runs in the past two weeks. Then I missed a long run last weekend due to a brief bug and then last night, I had to hail a taxi after 12 miles. Disaster and had to justify myself to talkie taxi driver for the way home as he kept telling me I was mad and asking was I one of the same girls he had picked up before while running (No.)

My attitude has changed - I feel pessimistic about it now, even thinking about long run Sunday coming it seems like more of a chore than a challenge. I don't think it's just the distance, It's more my general slugginess or something. Maybe a bit of nerves aswell? I haven't been in great form in general for whatever reasons so that obviously plays a part & know my diet hasn't been as good either as in I'm eating more junk food (still having porridge, pasta and all that, just more 'comfort food'). I spent a lot of time on my feet in town on Saturday and I know aswell last night I had water after 2hours whereas I usually have a Lucozade sport. Do these small things all make a difference? Am I being stupidly naieve about it all?

I still really really want to do it and do it well. I'm not going to pull out or anything and will defo cross the finish line but think it will be far far away from my vision this time a month ago, which is really disappointing but maybe I just haven't put in enough work and it's being to show now. But then I tell myself that my long runs were increasing well and my mid week runs (average 6/7miles) were at a good speed. I don't know.
Guess I'm asking if anyone has had this lull before and any feedback or cheesy positive encouragement would be much appreciated.
Honestly just feel like crying at the moment - pretty sad I know!
Thanks xx

911sc

I can imagine how you feel... Most important of all, think positive at all time. Not everybody runs a marathon, simply because it is hard, require a lot of training and commitment, puts a lot of physical and mental stress on the body. If it was easy, any Joe Soap would run it and finish it.

Considering you are running your first marathon, may be drop the watch, run at a more comfortable pace, and focus on finishing it. You'll be amaze how much longer you can run by simply slowing down a tiny bit.

May be take a breezer for few days, and do "none running" activities that you normally enjoy... then you'll be dying to put your runner on.

Any chance you can find somebody to run with you for a while?

Have you not overtrained?

You have been training for 6 months now, and you are just about to collect the fruits of your hard labor in Paris in few weeks. Go for it.
Best of luck

Lila

I felt the same way back in Spetember. Dublin was my first mathathon and coming towards the end of training I was feeling the same way. Tired, slow, lazy - p'ed off. Apparently it's quite normal. I had envisaged feeling fabulous after weeks of training but I just felt that I was slowing down, not getting stronger. But I can tell you that it did pass for me.

Don't beat yourself up! A few 'bad' runs are still runs. Come the morning of the race you'll be fine. A bit nervous probably but mainly excited and ready to run! Good luck!

tunney

Sleep, diet and recovery.

Sleep more, go to bed earlier and sleep.

Diet, eat loads of veg, brocolli, spinach, the lot. Cut back on refined foods, sugars, sweets, chocolate. You want to give your body the building blocks it needs to repair.

Recovery, stretch, get a massage, take some time off.

I know I get cranky, don't want to train and feel like crap when I'm on the edge but I find a week of the above and I'm back to normal.

--amadeus--

Well first up well done on getting to this stage! I don't know where you were before you started but there aren't many people who can get up in the morning and run 16 miles in 2.5 hours.

And you are right, having put in so much work over so long only to see it all crumble at the last would be really frustrating, but I don't think it'll happen.

First thing I would reccomend is following a proper training plan for your next marathon. Normally people train for 16 - 24 weeks (depending on teh schedule and thier goals) and this is a long enough period of time to focus on a single goal. As you are finding trying to maintain focus on a single target for six months is almost impossible.

The other thing about a schedule is that it builds in variety. As SC says mixing it up a bit is probably a good idea. Crosstraining, mixing in a few shorter runs as well as your long and mid-length runs, varying the pace, running without a watch - all reduce the boredom factor and keep you working.

And what you are feeling is perfectly normal - lots of marathon runners get doubts as the race gets closer. Experienced runners recognise the feeling and have memories of past training cycles so they recognise the self-doubt for all it is. They also have memories of teh big race atmosphere and how good it feels to cross the line and that is a motivator. Unfortunatley a first timer lacks this supports so (again like SC says) finding someone else (local running club) can be invaluable for mutual support. And if it's any comfort I'm 6 weeks away from my 7th marathon and I'm also going through that "what am I doing, I'll make a fool of myself!" phase!

There is a thread for people to post thier daily training runs on - maybe start posting on it for some encouragment and motivation? And focus on teh goal. I ran Paris as my second marathon and if you relax, forget about your time target and run it for teh joy of running in a great city then you will love it (there is a review in the review thread) And stay around here and keep us posted!

(edit - cross posted with 2 above, great advice, esp Tunney, rest & diet v imp)

Stupid_Private

A big mistake I made for years and I think a lot of people do is running the long run too fast. I couldn't for the life of me figure out how running the long run slow would eventually make me be able to run a marathon faster. To be honest it still puzzles me a bit!!

If your long runs are becoming a chore one of the reasons could well be because you're doing them too fast. You're aiming for a 4 hour marathon then you shouldn't be doing 16 miles in 2h 30m in training. That's your race pace. Essentially you should be doing every mile 1 minute+ slower than your marathon goal pace. That training session should take you in or around the 2h 50m mark. This way you won't be as tired and be able to complete the whole weeks training sessions.

From the sounds of it you've just tired yourself out running all the long runs as fast as you can and essentially racing your training. Obviously doing 16 miles is going to be tiring but you should be doing the miles at a comfortable pace so that when you get home you feel like you could do more and you shouldn't be shattered.

If you were running 16 miles a few weeks back comfortably then you're in a fine position to complete Paris in 6/7 weeks. Just take it easier on them long runs. Good luck

Clum

raemie21 wrote: »

Essentially, feeling like crap over past ten days or so & supposed to be aiming for a 4hour marathon in Paris in seven weeks.

raemie21 wrote: »

I can't say exactly when I noticed a change but to get to basics, I've struggled with the mid week shorter runs in the past two weeks. Then I missed a long run last weekend due to a brief bug

Was the bug anything to do with feeling like crap? Maybe it wasn't as brief as you thought. I'm just getting over a lingering cold and noticed a huge difference in how I felt on my long run on Sunday. I've been struggling on my mid week steady runs too but hope to put in a good run tonight.

These long runs and high weekly mileage can really take it out of us and not feeling 100% doesn't help. It could just be your body needs to recover a little. Keep at it, in a week or two you could be flying again and may have forgotten all about this lull.

How Strange

Lila wrote: »

I felt the same way back in Spetember. Dublin was my first mathathon and coming towards the end of training I was feeling the same way. Tired, slow, lazy - p'ed off. Apparently it's quite normal. I had envisaged feeling fabulous after weeks of training but I just felt that I was slowing down, not getting stronger. But I can tell you that it did pass for me.

Don't beat yourself up! A few 'bad' runs are still runs. Come the morning of the race you'll be fine. A bit nervous probably but mainly excited and ready to run! Good luck!

I can totally relate to this. I'm training for a half marathon and only have a few weeks left. Some weeks my mid week runs are embarrassingly terrible. I just can't get more than 4 miles done. Somedays I have to force myself to get out there and run. Then I go out at the weekend with my running buddy and I do really great so I'm on a high until I do my weekday runs and the cycle of highs and lows start again.

I know I'm too hard on myself so really beat myself up if I stop at 4 miles during the week. I also figured out this weekend that the half marathon is alot closer than I thought and that threw me into a panic and a wave of self doubt.

Like others said, I don't feel uber healthy or anything like that but I am following a relatively healthy diet - low gi carbs, protein, lots of veg, very very little junk food. My one weak area is I'm probably not drinking enough water.

However, I'm relieved to see this post here because it shows me that I'm not the only one who thinks like that and to a degree its normal. Hopefully the OP will see that too.

Racing Flat

Very common 'symptoms' mid-way through marathon training. Seems like you're getting nowhere, the training's going on forever etc. etc. But that's the challenge - the whole process of the training and the marathon - not just the 26.2 on the day. Stick with it, stay positive and take the advice from above, ie sleep lots, eat lots and well, and rest (when your body needs it, i.e. listen to your body and don't beat yourself up about missing sessions). I gave up marathons a few years ago because the training was so draining and I hate, hate, hate the long runs (ie > 2hours). So I've concentrated on shorter distances for the last while and now my enthusiasm is back so I'm looking forward to doing a marathon in Autumn. And you can see that most other people also relate to this. Something that makes it easier for me is training with others. A 3 hour solo run is like a big black cloud hanging over my weekend, but if meeting others to do it, chatting along the way and going for food after makes the time pass quicker and it's more enjoyable.
I always found the training harder than the race itself, so it's supposed to be hard! The marathon is a good challenge, so best foot forward and good luck in Gay Paris.

SharkTale

In the same boat myself for the Dublin Marathon last year (first timer)...hit a plateau during the training, agree with all the points above, the hard part is the training the easy part is on the day "meeting your goal". I found just adding something new to my training help me get over the hump and few posts of encouragement from people on this site assured me that I was quite normal with what I was feeling. Eating well and loads of sleep, and use your rest days as rest days will give you a new lease of life. Followed Hal's programme last year and the fear for me was I doing enough will I meet my own goal and staying injury free. Would advise that you follow some training programme and this may get you motivated once again.....
Best of luck

911sc

Stupid_Private wrote: »

You're aiming for a 4 hour marathon then you shouldn't be doing 16 miles in 2h 30m in training. That's your race pace. Essentially you should be doing every mile 1 minute+ slower than your marathon goal pace.

I have read this few times, but must admit that i do not get the logic behind it.
May be just me, but I find it difficult to speed up the pace on race day. So i actually train as the same pace as the one i have to maintain to cover distance in set time on the day. For instance, I currently train at 9min per mile for long runs as i would like to run a marathon under 4hours (9min => 3h56min - no room for error there!).
My logic is to rely on body & muscles memory (if such a thing exist). So, even without a watch, i know "where i am" into my run.

For instance, i went for 30kms on sunday and was aiming for 2h45min. Ended up doing it in 2h47min45sec, which is exactly 9.00miles per min... I only looked at my watch at the end of run, so there was no "correction" made along the way. I am still astonished by the accuracy of this result, may be help by the fact that it was a perfectly flat course.
So, i am going to do the exact same run next week-end, and see if i had been lucky or if my body memory theory exists

Note: i am only a "leisure" runner" not a "winner contender" doing this for pleasure and personal challenges... and raising a bit of money for charity along the way.

--amadeus--

This pops up a lot. I'm no expert but my understanding is that the different parts of a marathon training plan work together to build a complete set of abilities.

So you could look at a plan as classically having three elements. First is speed training (reps, hills, fartlek) that is designed - surprise, surprise! - to build your speed, make you a faster runner. The second element is general aerobic work, standard distance running (3 - 15 miles depending on your weekly training volume) that are designed to build your general aerobic fitness.

The key workout though is the long run. Here your body learns the physiological tricks it needs to cover endurance distance. These may include substituting fat as an energy source and improving running economy. By far the most underrated part of a long run is the mental training it gives, particularly if the theory of the central governer is correct.

So the three parts - stamina adaptations from your long run, general fitness adaptations from your aerobic sessions and speed adaptations from your intervals combine on the day to allow you to run far AND fast.

At this point someone usually quotes Seb Coe ("long slow miles make long slow runners") and mentions specificality of training.

You need to run the LSRs at an intensity that is not too far removed from the race (30 - 90 secs per mile slower is the guide) and you should throw in some marathon specific runs (10 - 12 miles at your planned race pace, for the reasons you mentioned) but trying to run your long runs at race pace is actually a very high risk strategy. You risk "racing your training" and leaving your best performances on the training route. You also significantly increase the risk of injury as muscles take a lot longer to recover from a marathon speed long run than a lower intensity run of equal distance.

It does sound counter intuitive but it does work!

raemie21

hey, thanks for all the replies & feeling bit better about it today. I've been making a bigger effort to sleep & eat which was obvious but again useful just to hear it from others! Also telling myself to keep going with it, not to lower my expectations too much but if it takes me 4.5hours on the day, try not to be disappointed.There's only three weeks proper training left so can just give my planned shot and see what happens on the day.

Also in work today, one of my Seniors realised I was doing it - usually we tend to keep out of each other's way, but today it came up in conversation and he was genuinely impressed, offering congratulations (albeit prematurely!) and asking about the training etc. It was great kinda telling someone new about it and I suppose convincing myself too by talking out loud and hearing myself confirming that I have run whatever distances already & thinking about the race day itself...Not that people do marathons for others but sometimes I know I can forget that it is tough, that's why it's a big deal and apparently less than 1% of the world's population have completed one... yeah, there's one for the ego

One other thing I might just ask aswell & appreciate feedback is about morning/evening runs. I've done all my long runs and most of the mid week runs late evening time, around 7pm start (I couldn't really help that to be honest, even though I know most people do long run in the morning). Paris starts at 8.30am & originally was planning on doing the last four/five long runs in the morning just to get the feeling of running early & small snack beforehand.
I'm a bit anxious now that between my block this past while, maybe it's best not to change too much & just focus on doing the remaining three long runs at my usual time of day and hopefully in Paris on the moring I'll be fine with the adrenaline and the general feeling of wanting to run (and eat properly with the different schedule etc.) But then it probably is best to practice some bit running at same time of day as the race itself, yeah? Or do people find it makes much difference? Kinda hoping now this isn't something I should have done way earlier than this. Anyway, positive attitude all the way I guess &thanks again for the replies already, appreciated them and they really did help x

911sc

Doing some run early in the morning would be good if you can, but don't get frustrated if you cannot.
I found it takes longer to get into the right pace during morning runs than afternoon/evening runs for obvious reasons.
I guess everybody would have their own tricks to start well these early runs... mine is simply to have a nice warm shower before the run. May seem silly as i'll get pretty sweaty 1/2hour later, but it helps at waking up my old body and get me started!
I start the early run slower than the late one for a smoother warm-up.
But i found after few kms, once warm, that there is not much difference pace wise between the morning/evening runs.
Just my tupence, as everybody is different.

On race day, adrenaline & buzz will help you for the early start.... it may even prevent you from sleeping the night before:(

Shout it loud and clear that you are running a marathon, and be proud of it. As you said, very few people actually do it..