feedback isnt working

stevoman

nerin wrote: »

to break it down for you stevoman,
a)i think people tend to make big deals over nothing,or hold grudges/be stubborn
b)i also think feedback is not as bad as the nay sayers are claiming it is. it can be bad, but in all fairness, people acting the maggot deserve to be poked fun of. those who aren't do not, but people seem to be mistaking jokes for belittlement.
hope that clears things up a bit for you.

Point taken. My point really is though feedback works, but i think there is room for improvent though.

Sherifu

Gandalf23 wrote: »

Oops ... I forgot people were only allowed to post in one thread at a time. My sincerest apologies.

Not at all. Post away.

Gandalf23 wrote: »

This particular guy was posting lolcats for a long time before he was banned. Even one of the admins admitted as much.

It takes a fair amount to get banned from feedback. The drip of lolcats broke the dam in this case.

Gandalf23 wrote: »

There have definitely been many successful resolutions, I admit that. But there (IMHO of course) are ongoing problems with feedback. These caused sometimes by idiots posting irrelevant and stupid pictures and comments. Do you not admit that?

The problem here is that there seems two camps ... the "fight da powa" idiots vs. the "boards.ie fanboys". Both are equally biased and blinkered. Both of these camps are unwilling to listen to or understand the other persons position.

Then there are the rest of the community in the middle attempting to be even handed and willing to listen. Unfortunately, sometimes this group are the silent majority ...

Of course i'll admit that there are irrelevant pics/comments but mostly a serious thread will stay serious. If there is merit in the argument the OP will get a fair go. Sometimes even when they have a case they get riddiculed because of the way they present their problem, with an attitude or whatever. In that case an admin may step in. I think it works well enough the way it is.

Gandalf23

togster wrote: »

People with genuine concerns about how feedback functions are often lumped together with the trolls and tards who see it as an oppurtunity to settle a grievance. Some mods and other "regular posters" see it as an attack on them, which to be fair is sometimes the case

Nail. Head. Hit on the.

I've said this a few times before ... anyone coming to feedback acting the maggot or questioning a ban should be told exactly why the ban was imposed and the thread then locked. If necessary an admin can make final decision on this.

There is no need for feedback to decend into the mess of stupidity and lolcats I've seen here all too often.

stevoman

maybe a Mod should be givin clearence to lock each thread once its deemed finished and save the bombardment of cats????

tbh

This is how cats come to feedback:

Q: Why was I banned?

A: Did you pm the mod?

Q: No

A: Fuck off then. Unleash the cats.

helpdesk ftw.

togster

togster wrote: »

And i also think Admins should make it clear what the purpose of feedback actually is and let this be a mod wide concensus. If grievances for bannings are to be taken to help desk than so be it. I also think that if is to be help desk then a mod should moderate it to limit the spastic behaviour (from both sides) so the proces can work

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=247043

cornbb

I'd have to agree with the OP. Airing a grievance in Feedback is like trial by ordeal - there are plenty of muppets who come along and deserve to have the piss ripped out of them, granted, but there are also a lot of people with genuine problems and it is generally left to a large core of Feedback regulars (usually mods) to either help them out, often at the price of a barrage of rolleyes, accusations or cat pics.

The fight-da-powa muppets and boards.ie fanboys are at opposite ends of the boards.ie spectrum but unfortunately they are the most vocal groups in Feedback. I guess that makes it sort of an entertaining gladatorial arena, but it doesn't make it a Feedback forum... I do love boards but I don't think this forum does what it says on the tin at all. Helpdesk FTW.

Gandalf23

Sherifu wrote: »

Not at all. Post away.

Thanks very much for your permission to post on boards.ie. Means a lot to me

Sherifu wrote: »

Of course i'll admit that there are irrelevant pics/comments but mostly a serious thread will stay serious. If there is merit in the argument the OP will get a fair go. Sometimes even when they have a case they get riddiculed because of the way they present their problem, with an attitude or whatever. In that case an admin may step in. I think it works well enough the way it is.

I have seen many serious threads decend into chaos. The OP frequently does not get a "fair go". I believe its unfair to riddicule a poster because of the "way they present their problem". Most of the people here are very educated, experienced, smart people who are well used to this means of communication and being able to present a particular point of view in an Internet forum. Its horribly unfair and one-sided to rip an inexperienced person to shreads because they are not as smart or articulate as you. Sometimes feedback reminds me of the Jerry Springer audience

I think this forum needs a radical re-think. Its not working well as it is, and I'm not alone in thinking that.

Just my 2c on this, and for the record I'm a huge fan of boards.ie and have been folowing it since the very start. I'd love to see the site prosper and I've received (and given) lots of help since I've been a member (most recently emailing lots of Open Source material to a guy doing a presentation for work).

People sometimes forget that it takes a real friend to be brave enough to tell someone the brutal truth about something ...

Gandalf23

tbh wrote: »

This is how cats come to feedback:

Q: Why was I banned?

A: Did you pm the mod?

Q: No

A: Fuck off then. Unleash the cats.

helpdesk ftw.

The mods frequently tell people to "take it to feedback" when PM'ed ...

Karl Hungus

Feedback does work, but it isn't perfect.

While we can sit back and say that "Only the muppets get given a hard time" it does happen that cat pics do get trotted out by some posters without much provocation, and it can be taken up wrong.

I wrote a big post a while back, under the title of Hot to get unbanned, a few tips, and hopefully it should have made things run a bit smoother.

togster

Myth wrote: »

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=247043

I know this exsists myth but maybe mods should say "take it to helpdesk". I have seen many nods say "take it to helpdesk/feedback".

Sherifu

Gandalf23 wrote: »

Nail. Head. Hit on the.

togster is a fine example of feedback working. He had his ban overturned when he made his case here in feedback.

togster

Karl Hungus wrote: »

I wrote a big post a while back, under the title of Hot to get unbanned, a few tips, and hopefully it should have made things run a bit smoother.

And it was a really good post. It helped me

I thought that should have been stickied tbh and any n00b posting should read it. If they don't read it lock the thread?

Feedback worked for me btw and if you're civil with people they are usually civil with you.

Gandalf23

Sherifu wrote: »

togster is a fine example of feedback working. He had his ban overturned when he made his case here in feedback.

Feedback works sometimes, but does NOT work as it should MOST of the time. You would have to admit there are problems here that need to be addressed?

I'm baffeled as to why there not as strict a policy here as there is in PI.

togster

Sherifu wrote: »

togster is a fine example of feedback working. He had his ban overturned when he made his case here in feedback.

Well it was more the fact that i took the time to pm the right person and he was good enough to re-instate me. Thats the point, alot of threads would be avoided if people actually were civil with the mods and pm'd them.

tbh

Gandalf23 wrote: »

Feedback works sometimes, but does NOT work as it should MOST of the time. You would have to admit there are problems here that need to be addressed?

I'm baffeled as to why there not as strict a policy here as there is in PI.

that would be helpdesk. It's waaaay stricter than PI.

Gandalf23 wrote: »

The mods frequently tell people to "take it to feedback" when PM'ed ...

that's fine. If a user has pm'd a mod and been told to take it here, that's a different issue. I think that the majority of abuse - which I have to say, I don't really see the point of - is if a user resorts to feedback as a first option, when really it (or, more properly, helpdesk) should be the "nuclear" option. I've generally found that people go to feedback if they want a rant, and helpdesk if they are serious about getting a situation resolved. I do think that posters should be told to raise problems with mods or bans in helpdesk, rather than feedback.

Sherifu

togster wrote: »

Well it was more the fact that i took the time to pm the right person and he was good enough to re-instate me. Thats the point, alot of threads would be avoided if people actually were civil with the mods and pm'd them.

Was it the PM that did it or the thread? Anyway you didn't post here making things up, no great works of fiction. You admitted you made a mistake, held your hands up and asked for another chance. You presented the truth and were given a fair go. Too many threads start here with the god given right attitude.

Gandalf23

tbh wrote: »

that would be helpdesk. It's waaaay stricter than PI.

Accepted, and maybe this is what should happen. But then what is the purpose of "feedback" and why is the default response from mods when PM'ed about bans etc. "take it to feedback"?

/edit/ Ok tbh ... see your response to my question in your edit above ...

@tbh ... I totally see what you are saying and agree to a large extent. So what do you see as being the purpose of feedback then?

tbh

as to the purpose of feedback, I actually think it's for comments about boards in general, similar to what Ibid proposed here. For whatever reason, feedback and helpdesk have overlapped, and that really should be sorted.

cornbb

Now this thread itself is an example of an excellent Feedback thread. Helpful, mature discussion on an aspect of boards and how it could be improved. And not a cat pic in sight. I do love cat pics, banter, slagging muppets off etc. but they are unhelpful in what should be a constructive forum.

I think tallaght01 said earlier in the thread that it shouldn't be up to boards.ie general population or mods to decide who is or isn't a muppet in Feedback and he's perfectly right. I think ban appeals can only be fairly dealt with by admins, unfortunately and understandably they don't always have the time to do so.

Gandalf23

tbh wrote: »

as to the purpose of feedback, I actually think it's for comments about boards in general, similar to what Ibid proposed here. For whatever reason, feedback and helpdesk have overlapped, and that really should be sorted.

But many of the feedback comments are met with the stock response ... "if your not happy with the way things are here, go and set up your own website ..."

Granted some of the comments are sh1t and deserve that exact response, but I've seen a lot of threads with good comments/feedback end like that. In fact, I have a suspicion this thread is heading in that direction ...

Overheal

I think the rule of thumb is commone sense: constructive posts receive constructive answers. silly posts beget lolcats.

TelePaul

stevoman wrote: »

okay look im just trying to voice an opinion. If you guys dont think there's any need for improvment thats fine.

FWIW I agree entirely with you.

TelePaul

Gandalf23 wrote: »

But many of the feedback comments are met with the stock response ... "if your not happy with the way things are here, go and set up your own website ..."

So true Gandalf! You've got the measure of things here.

Vokes

Never understood why some Mods say take it to Feedback regarding bannings, complaints, etc. Should always be Helpdesk, non?

Gandalf23

cornbb wrote: »

I think tallaght01 said earlier in the thread that it shouldn't be up to boards.ie general population or mods to decide who is or isn't a muppet in Feedback and he's perfectly right. I think ban appeals can only be fairly dealt with by admins, unfortunately and understandably they don't always have the time to do so.

Then perhaps it might be worth having another way to deal with ban appeals. Maybe have a panel of about 10 people (the admins and some of the smods/mods who have a bit of time to give to this) and let some or all of them meet say twice a week to review all bans. This would remove threads about bans in feedback and save us from the lolcats. Might also be good for the mods to have input to this and allow for "training" of mods if needed.

In addition to that feedback should be much more strictly moderated. I believe posters here should be given the same respect as posters in PI ... no toleration of lolcats or idiots or any disrespect whatsoever. If some "fight da powa" fool posts something let him be banned and the thread locked. If some idiot "boards.ie fanboy" appears let him be banned.

Would definitely make feedback a better place (and there might even be a small, tiny, minute chance boards.ie will improve and get some good useful feedback as a result)...

stevoman

OKAY OKAY what does anyone think of this idea and please feel free to critisice it as much a you like (though i prob dont need to say that:p)

what would Mods and Admins and Normals think of a three of five person Judge like forum. like a court almost. you go in. both sides have their say. Judges ruling is final. Its fair on everybody. And it doesnt have to be viewed by everyone as a public thread. Is this a good idea anyone??? Is it possible???

Overheal

stevoman wrote: »

OKAY OKAY what does anyone think of this idea and please feel free to critisice it as much a you like (though i prob dont need to say that:p)

what would Mods and Admins and Normals think of a three of five person Judge like forum. like a court almost. you go in. both sides have their say. Judges ruling is final. Its fair on everybody. And it doesnt have to be viewed by everyone as a public thread. Is this a good idea anyone??? Is it possible???

too much beaurocracy to be honest. in Feedback anyone passing by gets to voice their opinion and its up to the mods and admins at that point to take it on board.

TelePaul

stevoman wrote: »

OKAY OKAY what does anyone think of this idea and please feel free to critisice it as much a you like (though i prob dont need to say that:p)

what would Mods and Admins and Normals think of a three of five person Judge like forum. like a court almost. you go in. both sides have their say. Judges ruling is final. Its fair on everybody. And it doesnt have to be viewed by everyone as a public thread. Is this a good idea anyone??? Is it possible???

Doubt it'd work, there's sometimes a tendency for mods to agree with each other for the sake of it - sometimes, not always. This is especially true when a Mod is accused of wrong-doing.

ziggy

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