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Fair point.Just on the feedback/helpdesk lark, as I've repeatedly said the system needs to be reformed. As it stands, if a user queries a ban i dislike telling users to go to helpdesk, for the simple reason that I have no right to reply there, and dislike giving someone a soapbox to type about how i'm an asshole for banning me.
Which might bring us back to the idea of having a "Ban Appeals" forum, as was suggested in a recent thread, which would be much more strictly moderated, and which could either have restrictions on who could post or which would have a zero tolerance on non-constructive comments, i.e. start with an open-to-all scenario, but immediate permaban from that forum for any unhelpful comments / lolcats / etc. ... a bit like PI, in fact, only if anything more strict. It really wouldn't take long to weed out problematic posters.
And if the odd poster wants to use Feedback instead and start a Fight-teh-powah! rant for the hell of it (and there will be a few, I guarantee!), let them! ... BUT in such cases they need expect no protection: if they choose to go into the middle of the field and start throwing rotten tomatoes, they needn't whine if people throw them back.
Personally, I think it would be a pity if Feedback were to be moderated that strictly; in the first place, it was never intended to be an Appeals Forum; secondly, much good and useful feedback can and has been given in a light-hearted manner; thirdly, a very strict forum such as I have suggested above would rapidly lose the interest of most users unless they had "business in court" ... and for that forum, that would probably be a good thing, but it wouldn't be a good thing for Feedback.
Thinking along roughly similar lines, though I think at this stage I would be inclined to vote for a separate forum, along the lines I suggested above.PSI: Las Vegas wrote: »Might it be an idea to revamp helpdesk? If mods/cmods/smods and thread starters were allowed post there and then mods informed that they were ONLY allowed post in resposne to threads regarding forums they mod (and strictly enforced), it might allow a fairer resolution to some of the issues without the sidetracking and Pratchett-esque "street theatre" we get in feedback?
Let feedback then become about feedback on the forums and site and let helpdesk be about bannings.
Either than or a new and separate forum, outlines as above and let helpdesk deal with password changes, name changes etc etc...
Very much agree, though obviously consistency in itself contributes to both fairness and the transparency of that fairness. However, if consistency becomes more important than fairness, I guarantee that fairness will lose out in the long run, just like in RL.Part of the inconsistency problem stems from the fact that every forum on boards has different rules, plus there are very few hard-and-fast rules dictated to the mods so most mod decisions are made on a discretionary basis. I know this isn't fair some of the time but I'd believe that out of the hundreds of moderators on boards, the vast majority are fair the vast majority of the time. Its very hard to be consistent when there are so many factors in play: site rules, charter rules, the posting history of the user, the context in which an offending post was made. Everything is taken on a case-by-case basis, hence the apparent lack of consistency. Fairness is more important than consistency.
We have a Transgender forum now? I missed that one.I can remember when a certain high-profile Mod posted in the transgender forum on april first, saying he had resigned himself to getting a sex change operation. Now, I'm pretty sure anyone else would be site-banned over this.
I think I remember the incident, though. While I do see your point, TelePaul, and I suspect said mod may have gotten a couple of kicks from his fellow mods behind the scenes, I would also suggest that you sit back from the kb for a minute and follow your logic to its conclusion. So, no-one is allowed to have a silly moment, or to take the piss on April Fool's Day, or to make a stupid post when under the influence, no matter how much of a contribution they have made to the site in the past as either a user or a mod. No ... immediate site-ban, in your view. Really? Is that really the kind of Stalinist community you want boards.ie to become?
Wow! Internet = Serious Business, in truth! (I'll be good, and not post the appropriate lolcat!). If the Puritans are taking over, and we must all be serious and responsible citizens all the time, I personally am outta here!
I would agree with you that this should be the rule for the Appeals Forum I suggested above, if that was the way the admins decided to go. For Feedback as it is, though, I would be more inclined to say "Use with a bit of common sense, ffs!"Ban cat pics. Really, do.
The more detailed rules you have, the more some people will play hedge lawyer and argue about them and try to wriggle their way through smaller and smaller loopholes until they disappear up their own ... legal sophistries. If you really want to see how that works, you could always spend a few years studying the records of the State Supreme Courts in America, and of the US Supreme Court itself. (Not a serious suggestion, btw, I wouldn't wish that hell on anyone!)Personally, I don't see anything wrong a line being drawn - if you're worried about people 'stepping up to the line', then make the rules more concise or make more of them
Actually, while it's an aside from the general discussion, I think a well-chosen lolcat can make a valid contribution, and make a point better in 3 seconds than what Terry would call one of my long rantsBut if you're not going to make a valid contribution - and a lolcat is NOT a valid contribution - then why bother posting at all?
... IF well-chosen, used with common sense and at an appropriate time. It's the last bit that doesn't always happen ...
I don't agree, there have been a lot of very constructive points made from all sides.this is really getting nowhere.
But ...
I do agree that as always (in RL and on board.ie) there's been a bit too much of that too.as far as i can see there's fundamentally two sides like there always is on this feedback forum and nobody is willing to give or take (well maybe some).
Emm ... we're not Vulcans! A bit more listening on both sides would be good, yes, but "sterile" is harly a goal to aim for!I think it's nigh impossible to have a sterile and impartial Feedback debate.
And you would prefer they were gagged??! Seriously, just think about what you are arguing for there!Maybe because the mods get their say as well as the supposed 'victim'.0 -
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Fair enough, as I said originally, I do see where you're coming from on that one, and I would put a bet on the individual in question having got some blunt feedback from other mods and users on the incident, even if it might not have been shouted about in public. My point was simply that the option you offered (or which I understood you to be offering from your original post at least) was OTT.Personally, I didn’t find the incident in any way damaging. But that’s because I’m not considering a sex-change operation. I don’t doubt for a second that the Mod in question may have offended a lot of people by joking about something that really shouldn’t be belittled. If you want silly moments, hang out in after hours, the cuckoos nest, or better still, humour. If you want to indulge in an April Fools prank, there are far more appropriate forums; any forum, in fact, that doesn’t deal with the weighty issue of gender and identity, and the physically horrendous lengths people will go to realize this issue. Nobody said Stalinist, nobody said Puritan.
Hmmm ... I doubt it, tbh. I think if you re-wrote your sentence this way, you might be closer to the mark:I didn’t even say that a permanent ban should have been enforced; all I said was that if the member in question wasn’t a mod, a permanent ban would have been a much more likely outcome.
"If the member in question had been a n00b with 5 or 10 posts, or a user with a history of causing problems, rather than a mod or an established user with a history of contributing to the site, a permanent ban would have been a much more likely outcome."
But that's just my personal opinion from hanging around the site, just as your opinion is yours ... neither of us can say for sure what might have happened.
On the other comments you made, I'm afraid I'm still going to have to disagree ... but thank you for taking the time to respond rationally and courteously to the points I made.
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randylonghorn wrote: »
On the other comments you made, I'm afraid I'm still going to have to disagree ... but thank you for taking the time to respond rationally and courteously to the points I made.
It's all good man! 0 -
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Originally Posted by TelePaul
Ban cat pics. Really, do.I just don’t get them. I don’t really find them funny – maybe I’ve become desensitized? – and I don’t understand their relevance to…well, anything.
well thats you (and others of course, but why should you dictate what anyone can/can't post that they think is relevant/funny.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055244951
17 for ban 55 against ban of LoLCats.
The poll is showing that people aren't all against them.
To be fair to ye, if there was some sort of structure or rule to how they are posted (ie its not on if a poster posts 2 or 3 irrelevant cats in a row) maybe the numbers for a ban would drop, i'm sure that some are just annoyed when what i said in brackets happens.
or maybe they just don't find it funny and want to push their viewpoints onto people that dont agree.
wouldnt that make 3 main groups, fite teh powah, boardsfanboys and fite teh cats?:)
i'd agree here, perhaps a charter on their usage, like don't post them randomly for no reason, if the OP is making a relevant point, etc.Originally Posted by Randy Actually, while it's an aside from the general discussion, I think a well-chosen lolcat can make a valid contribution, and make a point better in 3 seconds than what Terry would call one of my long rants
... IF well-chosen, used with common sense and at an appropriate time. It's the last bit that doesn't always happen ...
LoLcat charter?0 -
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you said you found Overheals argument weird,i referred to earlier posts that when i read them yesterday i thought were weird.
it actually sounded like i was having a dig at you, sorry
if they said something relevant you could and i might laugh while helping out.
example,
i post feedback saying im having trouble with one forum,that its dead. lets say paranormal forum for easy arguments sake.
someone replies clear cache or whatever.
someone else posts a cat ghost with the caption, paranormal forum, "blargh i is ded" while they wait to see if the advice helped.
people laugh.
i return, hasnt worked.
get more advice.
works. all happy.0 -
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That doesn't explain anything. It sounds like you're saying people post cat pics because they CAN post cat pics.
Have you seen my signature recently? I'm an american stripped of my rights by the patriot act
but seriously banning the communication via lolcats sounds like moderating to me, and this forum is not. I guess I would have agreed with you if you argued it in conjunction with Txt Spk, as lolcode is a bit cumbersome to read. But you havent. yet. Heehee.
But unlike text speak which is just pure laziness and stupidity, a lolcat is an expressive.
And if its REALLY that much of an issue it would take no more than a fart and a piss to remove support for the0
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