article 7 authority

meathshooter

District office have never heard of them how can I enlighten them

foxshooter243

you could download the form from the net im nearly sure its on the dept of justice website-if not write to the firearms and explosives unit ,the DOJ
equality and law reform,the old faculty building, shelbourne rd dublin 4.
:D

meathshooter

foxshooter243 wrote: »

you could download the form from the net im nearly sure its on the dept of justice website-if not write to the firearms and explosives unit ,the DOJ
equality and law reform,the old faculty building, shelbourne rd dublin 4.
:D

The one on justice website is not the right one,I have a copy of one, if I scanned it and deleted old details would that be aceptable just get it signed & stamped

foxshooter243

meathshooter wrote: »

The one on justice website is not the right one,I have a copy of one, if I scanned it and deleted old details would that be aceptable just get it signed & stamped

a couple of mates imported guns fron the north and thats the form they used,ring the dept to verify cos they are sticky if the paperwork is not 100%.......

meathshooter

foxshooter243 wrote: »

a couple of mates imported guns fron the north and thats the form they used,ring the dept to verify cos they are sticky if the paperwork is not 100%.......

This is the form my dealer wants,no mention of the dept of justice

foxshooter243

first of all you need to apply to the dept of justice on a seperate form,
that form you posted is the one that the dept then sends to you and
you take to the dealer-pm me your adress and ill send you a form for you to apply on -the instructions are on it along with address etc

packas

If you've got a licence you don't need Article 11 (from DOJ). You only need Article 7 to import to our State from Europe. However a dealer needs an article 11 to import guns (as he does not have a personal licence for them)

Pat.

fat-tony

meathshooter wrote: »

This is the form my dealer wants,no mention of the dept of justice

That's the Article 7. Your District Office must have one - the Superintendent signs it to give you approval to import. Normally this is used when doing a personal import. When a dealer is doing an import they use an Article 11 and don't need an Article 7, BUT they ask you to get an Article 7 when a pistol is concerned as they can't import a pistol on spec. - must be for a specific licensed firearm. I had to get an Article 7 when importing a pistol through a dealer. The problem is usually that only one or two people in the District Office usually know where these forms are and how to process them.

meathshooter

thanks lads have it sorted

TargetWidow

Had a look at the Article 7 posted here and it says "purchase or AQUISITION"... My hubby is in a situation whereby he has bought a gun from an Irish dealer, but due to the difficulties of bringing in pistols the gun had to come into the country through another dealer in the North. After a 3 and a half year high court battle to licence the pistol the Super is now dicking him around on the Article 7. Saying that since the gun wasnt purchased from anyone outside the 26 counties that they will not issue an Article 7. Both dealers have done this for loads of others outside this Supers jurisdiciton without any problem. You pick your gun and put a deposit on it, licence it and pay for it and then you can collect it from the dealer up north yourself with an Article 7. Surely the AQUISITION part is the part that applies here? Sure his bill of sale is from a dealer in the 26 counties, but he needs to go up North to take possession of it (aquisition??) The gun is currently outside the state and in order to bring it in (whether by purchase or aquisition) an Article 7 would be required. We kind of expected the Supers office to mess us around out of sour grapes over losing the Judicial Review against him but this is rediculous. This is a non discretionary document. We've told them this. They really dont care. They say get an original (not photocopied, not emailed) bill of sale from the dealer in the north stating that the person licenced to the gun has purchased this firearm from the dealer in the North. Short of selling the firearm to the dealer in the North and buying it back I cant see any way out of this. They are hoping we'll do something stupid and dodgy to bring it in so that they can confiscate. I've emailed Justice and no reply. Does anyone have a phone number so that we can call them and find out what the exact requirements are for an Article 7 are and whether or not the aqusition part is what applies here as I think it does. Do we HAVE to apply through the local station for this bit? Can we use another station? Apparently every biggish station has them available and they can be issued in a day. You even hear of people tippexing out old ones and the guards accepting these!!This is 2 months now. HELP!!!!!!!! (Only legal suggestions please!!)

Sparks

That's odd. If the licence is granted, the europass and article seven are things you are entitled to - the super cannot refuse to grant them under the firearms acts (nor can anyone else for that matter).

IRLConor

If it were me, I'd try and find out who the Chief Super above him is. Ask the Chief Super to explain to the Super that he can't refuse the Article 7.

The other thing you could do is lodge a complaint with the Garda Ombudsman. If possible, get the Super to provide you with the refusal in writing and then send a copy of that, the relevant snippet of law and a form GSOC 1 to the Ombudsman.

IRLConor

Interestingly, if I have read the relevant SI correctly, while you have an entitlement to be issued with an Article 7 Authority (9(2)(a)(ii)) the Superintendent has the right to revoke it (11(3)(a)) and require you to turn it in (11(3)(b)).

It seems mad, he has to give it to you but once he's given it to you he can revoke it and make you give it back?

foxshooter243

TargetWidow wrote: »

Had a look at the Article 7 posted here and it says "purchase or AQUISITION"... My hubby is in a situation whereby he has bought a gun from FRANKONIA in Germany through an Irish dealer, but due to the difficulties of bringing in pistols the gun came in through another dealer in the North. After a 3 and a half year high court battle to licence the pistol the Super is now dicking him around on the Article 7. Saying that since the gun wasnt purchased from anyone outside the 26 counties that they will not issue an Article 7. Both dealers have done this for loads of others outside this Supers jurisdiciton without any problem. You pick your gun and put a deposit on it, licence it and pay for it and then you can collect it from the dealer up north yourself with an Article 7. Surely the AQUISITION part is the part that applies here? Sure his bill of sale is from a dealer in the 26 counties, but he needs to go up North to take possession of it (aquisition??) The gun is currently outside the state and in order to bring it in (whether by purchase or aquisition) an Article 7 would be required. We kind of expected the Supers office to mess us around out of sour grapes over losing the Judicial Review against him but this is rediculous. This is a non discretionary document. We've told them this. They really dont care. They say get an original (not photocopied, not emailed) bill of sale from the dealer in the north stating that the person licenced to the gun has purchased this firearm from the dealer in the North. Short of selling the firearm to the dealer in the North and buying it back I cant see any way out of this. The dealer down south is getting fed up and I cant say I blame him. They are hoping we'll do something stupid and dodgy to bring it in so that they can confiscate. I've emailed Justice and no reply. Does anyone have a phone number so that we can call them and find out what the exact requirements are for an Article 7 are and whether or not the aqusition part is what applies here as I think it does. Do we HAVE to apply through the local station for this bit? Can we use another station? Apparently every biggish station has them available and they can be issued in a day. You even hear of people tippexing out old ones and the guards accepting these!!This is 2 months now. HELP!!!!!!!! (Only legal suggestions please!!)

In my part of the country we do not use the local superintendant to issue the article 7 form, we simply fill in " an application to import /export a firearm and or ammunition by an individual " form and its sent alongwith
your firearms cert to the firearms and explosives unit,the dept of justice
they then after 10 days or so post out the article 7 import form and of you go to the northern ireland dealer, pick up your goods and bobs your uncle. these application forms are actually supplied by a northern dealer with whom i do some business with, i have 2 of these forms at present
and if you wish to have one sent to you then pm me,the only thing that our fao was concerned with when we were dealing with a northern dealer was that the northern dealer brought the merchandise to the border for
pick up-hope this helps

Our man in Havana

IRLConor wrote: »

If it were me, I'd try and find out who the Chief Super above him is. Ask the Chief Super to explain to the Super that he can't refuse the Article 7.

The other thing you could do is lodge a complaint with the Garda Ombudsman. If possible, get the Super to provide you with the refusal in writing and then send a copy of that, the relevant snippet of law and a form GSOC 1 to the Ombudsman.

It seems that this super is determined that the gun is never collected, and he is using any means at his disposal to stop it.

TargetWidow

Went online doing a bit of research and dug up the EC Directive that sets out the basis for the SI that creates Article 7s. Theres no mention of specific jurisdictions in it only of "The Member State" ie Ireland. It's very clear about the different ways in which a firearm might come into the country ... purchase or aquisition from a dealer or licenced individual. What would happen if a licenced relative up North had "gifted" this pistol to him. There could be no bill of sale from the North then either but they couldnt refuse using that excuse then. I'm looking for a copy of the Garda Code. I'm going off on maternity leave next week and I'll have nothing else to do but outfox this Supernintendo! I think the document you mention foxshooter is an article 11(available to download from DOJ website), which will work for everything except a handgun. ECC Directive 91/477/ECC is the European legislation that dictates that handguns (category B firearms) require extra paperwork from the Member State (presumably to prevent people from buying shortstuff using fake firearms certs and having them couriered into the country to their doorstep- just a way they can be sure who has what- fair enough till you get guards like these). We then had to pass a Statutory Instrument based on that setting out the Irish requirement for an article 7 document. You could bring in most things with just the importation authority (article 11) but shortstuff needs a 7. Unfortunately.:(

Our man in Havana

Has the super given any reason for his refusal? I assume there was a bill of sale for the gun to get the licence?

meathshooter

all you need is the licence and article 7 to import from northern ireland,my dealer meet me at the border
you are entitled to a article 7 by EU directive once you have been issued
a cert,I think the super is taking this a little bit personal and not obeying the letter of the law,has the super given any reason.

TargetWidow

Super's office saying (only verbally mind you) that Article 7 relates only to the purchase transaction of the item. If I cannot produce a Bill of sale from outside the 26 counties then I cannot have the Article 7. DOJ today confirmed my opinion that Article 7 relates to the PURCHASE OR ACQUISION, and that in this case the whereabouts of the financial transaction is irrelevant as the item in question IS OUTSIDE THE STATE and NEEDS TO BE BROUGHT IN. That's an acquisition. Right now I'm very happy I spent all that time doing "Improve your Wordpower" in my readers digests as a kid!! And the few years studying law didn't go amiss either I s'pose!! Love nor money wont get the refusal in writing. But as the hubby says about me.... she's like the Mounties...... she always gets her man!! And I will. Thanks to those of you good buddies out there who have been PMing support and positive advice. Thanks but no thanks to those who have PMd fear-mongering and hoop-jumping. We were never hoop jumpers. Never will be- law abiding citizens shouldn't need to be. I'll PM the good news to those of you who have been supportive when (as I know it will) law and order triumphs. Watch this space!!