John Terry and referees

MrJoeSoap

He does seem to have quite a lot to say to them doesn't he...

What do people make of it, is it just good leadership and a clever tool into influencing referees to possibly give future 50/50 decisions his way? Is it intimidation, pure and simple, and should it be completely eradicated from the game?

Do you reckon Mourinho might have had an input on Terrys vocal crusades?

I personally feel that referees should have the power to reprimand players with a yellow card who confront them at any stage, unless at his request. It'd put a halt to it fairly sharply.

MrJoeSoap

Realise all the pics aren't 100% relevant but you get this gist.

MrJoeSoap

.

mike65

Professional (deleted), he is.

Now, in before the lock!

Mike.

Gileadi

There was a rumour that the league was going to implement a system next season where only the captain could talk to the ref (ala the oval shaped ball game) but even then that would leave Terry free to continue with the refs.

Imo i think its just being smart, and he wouldnt be the first captain or even player to be overly vocal against refs to achieve this end. Alot of it would be down to the ref as to how influential his efforts are though

MrJoeSoap

Done.

MrJoeSoap

mike65 wrote: »

In before lock!

Mike.

Whats the problem? Has nothing to do with other threads, I've been planning this one for a while and he did it again on Sunday which just reminded me.

mike65

Well we'll see, but "this could get a bit tasty, Ron"

Mike.

Bubs101

Pick number 8 is classy

Vokes

Whatever happened to that experiment rule with moving free kicks forward 10yrds if players argue with Ref? Or did i dream it? (Maybe Terry got the Refs to abolish it).

OT: A bit of both. Tis clever leadership and intimidation on his part and probably partly influenced ny Mourinho. But sure other captains do it too.

Xavi6

It's clearly a clever ploy to influence referees. If refs aren't gonna stand up for themselves and deal with him why wouldn't he try influence them? He's a great captain imo and if you can get away with it then do it.

Zapp Brannigan

Gerrard does the same, he admitted so in his book.

Chardee MacDennis

Xavi6 wrote: »

It's clearly a clever ploy to influence referees. If refs aren't gonna stand up for themselves and deal with him why wouldn't he try influence them? He's a great captain imo and if you can get away with it then do it.

i agree with most of that but Terry takes it way too far, doing things like taking the card out of the refs hand in one of the pics above. I have nothing but disdain for the man, especially if the rumours regarding his role in Mourinho's exit from Chelsea are true.

if i was playing in the prem i would make sure to go in extra hard on him - martin taylor style

i dont understand when players like Toure, Terry, Ferdinand and Gerrard, to a lesser extent (imho), don't get booked when they try and intimidate the ref by standing in their face barking at them. i would love to see a ref whip out his yellow card and book every player that confronts them.

AnCapaillMor

Seems to be a trait with championship winning teams, Keane was fantatistic for it, remember that Juninho peno incident, Vieira was great too, that fulham game where the ref awarded a peno and then backed down. It's been going on for ages, as much as i dislike Terry, he's not the first and only one to do it.

Dave!

meh, Rooney is a 'bit' mouthy at officials also. If the refs don't book them then it's their own fault.

PHB

I actually think Terry takes it to another level. While I think Gerrard is actually being incredibly smart, just like Keane Vieira were, Terry actually is doing something more. Takingthe card out of the refs hand is just absolutely nuts, can't see Keane, Vieira or Gerrard ever going that far.

Either way, it should be cut out to be honest, the refs have enough pressure on them without the players intimidating them. I don't mind people talking with refs, but if rugby players are able to control their abuse, then so should soccer players.

stick-dan

We should get terry a whistle and a referee jersey so that he can referee and play the match too. Where does he be going with his antics. Honestly.

Nunu

Slightly off-topic, but did anyone see today the keeper in the australian league who got a 15 month ban:eek: for nothing more than slapping the referees outstretched arm!

I think it might have been in a cup final...he came up for a late set piece and when the ref missed a hand ball in the box he remonstrated with the ref and then slapped his arm that was motioning for the free out...John Terry should count himself lucky:D

On the topic of players all up in the refs...and opponents faces, well Mathieu Flamini is the absolute worst! Every single time an Arsenal player is fouled he is remonstrating, arms waving etc, to whoever committed the foul and then to the ref. The latest in a very long line of these incidents was for the Eduardo injury.

Also, not trying to knock Arsenal here just saying it as I see it, Kolo Toure races from his centre half position a lot in similiar circumstances to create a song and dance.

Xavi6

Nunu wrote: »

Slightly off-topic, but did anyone see today the keeper in the australian league who got a 15 month ban:eek: for nothing more than slapping the referees outstretched arm!

I think it might have been in a cup final...he came up for a late set piece and when the ref missed a hand ball in the box he remonstrated with the ref and then slapped his arm that was motioning for the free out...John Terry should count himself lucky:D

Yeah it was Danny Vukovic of the Central Coast Mariners. He barely touched the refs arm really, it was more of a high five than anything else. The funniest thing was that he did the ol hit and run, as if the ref wouldn't know it was him! There were early talks of a life ban but now 6 months of the 15 given is suspended.

Here's the full story/vid -

http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=381533

AnCapaillMor

15 months is a joke, i remember Stoichov getting 3 months for stamping on a Refs foot.

Savman

What is this, Anti-Terry week? :rolleyes:
I'm sure if I was arsed I could find 15 jpegs of any Premiership captain shouting expletives at Referees. I see it's apparently hip nowadays to hate John Terry, well sorry but I shan't be joining that bandwagon/witchhunt.

_blank_

Savman wrote: »

What is this, Anti-Terry week? :rolleyes:
I'm sure if I was arsed I could find 15 jpegs of any Premiership captain shouting expletives at Referees. I see it's apparently hip nowadays to hate John Terry, well sorry but I shan't be joining that bandwagon/witchhunt.

I hate John Terry.

The picture of him trying to remove the card from the ref's hand is indicitave of the mans personality, imo.

He wasn't even booked for that imo.

England captain in preferential treatment shocker.

gucci

Savman wrote: »

I'm sure if I was arsed I could find 15 jpegs of any Premiership captain shouting expletives at Referees. I see it's apparently hip nowadays to hate John Terry, well sorry but I shan't be joining that bandwagon/witchhunt.

A lot of the actions and conduct of the so called top internationals (mostly English btw) at the top English clubs towards referees in general leaves a lot to be desired. And John Terry is one of the top guys in this category.

Fair enough referees do make the wrong calls, but generally they are good, yet these guys seek to argue and bitch about every single decision, which is bordering on the disgraceful.

gucci

DesF wrote: »

The picture of him trying to remove the card from the ref's hand is indicitave of the mans personality, imo.

He wasn't even booked for that imo.

That would be a sending off offense to almost any player in any sport....except in top flight professional football where the referees allow players like Terry (others too) to actually ref the games for them.

Savman

Hardly Terry's fault the Ref's couldnt be arsed or are too intimidated to enforce the rules.

DesF wrote:

I hate John Terry.

Hate is a very strong word. What did he do, kill the baby jebus?
He represents success, and in football in particular, people hate success. Especially people who don't follow Chelsea.

I'm sure if he was playing at Tolka Park you'd be raving about him

_blank_

Savman wrote: »

Hardly Terry's fault the Ref's couldnt be arsed or are too intimidated to enforce the rules.

Nope, that isn't Terry's fault at all. BUT, he does try to intimidate them.

There's nothing wrong with having a whinge at the ref if you don't agree with a decision, but to go in so aggressively is just plain wrong.

Do you respect Terry for this behaviour? (not his skill/talent, just the behaviour) Do you condone it?

Do you not give out about team-mates mouthing off at the ref?

Savman wrote: »

Hate is a very strong word. What did he do, kill the baby jebus?

Yes, he killed god.

And Chuck Norris.

Savman wrote: »

He represents success, and in football in particular, people hate success. Especially people who don't follow Chelsea.

Ah, I don't begrudge any player/team success.

But, John Terry is like these kids who are growing in Celtic Tiger Ireland. Spoilt rotten and always getting their own way. If they don't, they get all stroppy and throw tantrums. I hate that mindset.

Savman wrote: »

I'm sure if he was playing at Tolka Park you'd be raving about him

Probably.

Savman

DesF wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with having a whinge at the ref if you don't agree with a decision, but to go in so aggressively is just plain wrong.

Do you respect Terry for this behaviour? (not his skill/talent, just the behaviour) Do you condone it?

No but I certainly don't condone singling him out for special criticism either. If we're gonna talk about John Terry in that bracket, we have to talk about the dozens of other players at other PL clubs who do the same. But I don't see 2 threads dedicated to Scholes or Gerard bashing,

DesF wrote:

But, John Terry is like these kids who are growing in Celtic Tiger Ireland. Spoilt rotten and always getting their own way. If they don't, they get all stroppy and throw tantrums. I hate that mindset.

See, now this has feck all to do with JT and more to do with your view of a modern day pro footballer. They all whinge and moan at some stage, they don't know any better. It's probably what happens when you take teenage kids out of school to pursue a footballing career, they don't have any clue what's acceptable behaviour.

My point still stands, JT would walk into any of the top sides in the PL or Europe so people blowing smoke out of their arse about him arguing with Refs is pretty much futile. You can probably credit Jose Mourinho for creating that monster.

If the refs had any stones at all they'd book him -and every whiny player who does the same- in an instant.

MementoMori

I actually think Terry takes it to another level. While I think Gerrard is actually being incredibly smart, just like Keane Vieira were, Terry actually is doing something more. Taking the card out of the refs hand is just absolutely nuts, can't see Keane, Vieira or Gerrard ever going that far.

Either way, it should be cut out to be honest, the refs have enough pressure on them without the players intimidating them. I don't mind people talking with refs, but if rugby players are able to control their abuse, then so should soccer players.

QFT Totally agree

One of the side benefits of being England captain methinks - Also reckon a fair bit of it is Terry's presonality

Would love to see the ten yards for protesting decisions being brought in as well as only the captain taking to the ref if they have an issue. The thing is that the ten yards penalty is a lot more effective in rugby and GAA football as it's much liklier to result in a score.

Also I think there with the captain being the only one allowed to talk to the ref it would cause the game to flow better - mouthing off pi.sses me off cause it slows up the game - and how often does a ref change his mind out of all the times that a player protests one in a hundred, one in five hundred one in a thousand?

iregk

Yeah of course everyone else in the Prem is an angel where as JT is the only bad one out there.

Gerrard:
http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00348/gerrard_348511a.jpg

Keane:
http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00353/a_353300a.jpg

Finnan Carra:
http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00352/styles_352285a.jpg

Carra2:
http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/icliverpool/aug2007/5/4/829EFB7D-9570-640D-ACC1E0587FF2EBCD.jpg

Carra3:
http://bp3.blogger.com/_maIyKiE6BEc/Rsm_FCz8X6I/AAAAAAAAAKY/p1yPzCs3OS4/s320/carragher500.jpg

Carra4:
http://bp3.blogger.com/_6iX00OoqJz0/RpQZNnKvJGI/AAAAAAAAAiI/1hlkdqjkkzo/s200/Jamie+Carragher.JPG

Liverpool:
http://mcgonnigle.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/stevefinnanreaction.jpg

Dubit10

Terry,rooney,gerrard all mouth of at the ref and get away with it.english internationals:rolleyes:

Savman

gucci wrote: »

A lot of the actions and conduct of the so called top internationals (mostly English btw) at the top English clubs towards referees in general leaves a lot to be desired. And John Terry is one of the top guys in this category.

Fair enough referees do make the wrong calls, but generally they are good, yet these guys seek to argue and bitch about every single decision, which is bordering on the disgraceful.

Listen it's quite simple. If I was Howard Webb and JT started his cussin' all up in ma face, I'd send him for an early shower.

I guarantee the next time I was reffing JT in a Chelsea game, he wouldn't be as fast to gimme lip. Badda bing badda boom, problem eradicated. There is nothing more to it, it really is that simple.

So rather than going on about JT in particular why not go start a thread on Referees? IMHO they are more responsible for the issue of indiscipline in the modern game.

Dubit10

If there is a player out there with a bigger mouth than rooney then id like to know about him. He makes terry look shy and unbecoming.

Xavi6

Savman wrote: »

Listen it's quite simple. If I was Howard Webb and JT started his cussin' all up in ma face, I'd send him for an early shower.

I guarantee the next time I was reffing JT in a Chelsea game, he wouldn't be as fast to gimme lip. Badda bing badda boom, problem eradicated. There is nothing more to it, it really is that simple.

So rather than going on about JT in particular why not go start a thread on Referees? IMHO they are more responsible for the issue of indiscipline in the modern game.

Exactly.

I can't understand everyone's beef with Terry. If it was YOUR team's captain it wouldn't be problem. He would just be 'passionate'. It's because he's Chelsea and England captain. Why would he change his ways if no one is telling him to? Why SHOULD he change his ways if no one is telling him to?

You would think referees would have learnt from incidents such as the United/Andy D'Urso one but they haven't so on their heads be it.

_blank_

Savman wrote: »

I guarantee the next time I was reffing JT in a Chelsea game, he wouldn't be as fast to gimme lip. Badda bing badda boom, problem eradicated. There is nothing more to it, it really is that simple.

No, it isn't.

Did Graham Poll not do exactly this?

Sent off Terry, told him it was to "teach him a lesson".

Did Terry not go whinging to the press?

Was Poll not vilified for this?

Now, fair enough, Poll shouldn't have said anything to Terry about it, but I guarantee that in the next game that Poll reffed Terry, Terry was "all up in his face".

Terry is at this carry on in nearly every game tbh.

Xavi6 wrote: »

If it was YOUR team's captain it wouldn't be problem. He would just be 'passionate'.

Heh, that isn't really true.

We've had many, many conversations about mouthing off.

I say it to the lads before every game now tbh. "No mouthing to the ref". Even the captain.

Xavi6 wrote: »

It's because he's Chelsea and England captain.

I'll change fix this sentence for you.

It's because he's ... England captain that he gets away with it.

Xavi6 wrote: »

You would think referees would have learnt from incidents such as the United/Andy D'Urso one but they haven't so on their heads be it.

I agree with you, and Sav, here.

The refs have to take some responsibility for this, but not all of it. They need to start booking these players. It's the only way to get it out of the game.

The players have to face up to their responsibility aswell.

Xavi6

DesF wrote: »

Heh, that isn't really true.

We've had many, many conversations about mouthing off.

I say it to the lads before every game now tbh. "No mouthing to the ref". Even the captain.

Last minute of the game, your team is 1-0 up. Suspicious handball in your area, ref thinks about giving a peno but your skipper starts roaring at him that it couldn't possibly be, what's he at? etc. Ref bottles it, gives nothing, you win. You would still be pissed at your captain?

BaZmO*

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

He does seem to have quite a lot to say to them doesn't he...

As did Keane (started the trend tbh)
As did Viera
As did Shearer
As does Gerrard
As does Gallas

They all do/did it

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

I personally feel that referees should have the power to reprimand players with a yellow card who confront them at any stage, unless at his request.

They are but they don't. It's up to the refs to stop this. You can't blame the players if the referees are letting them away with it. It's like blaming a child that acts up in front of a parent but is not reprimanded. It's not going to stop until something is done about it.


One thing I will say though, is that Terry was out of order trying to take the card out of the ref's hand, but again, the ref was a fool for not booking him.

_blank_

Xavi6 wrote: »

Last minute of the game, your team is 1-0 up. Suspicious handball in your area, ref thinks about giving a peno but your skipper starts roaring at him that it couldn't possibly be, what's he at? etc. Ref bottles it, gives nothing, you win. You would still be pissed at your captain?

Nope.

But that isn't the thing here.

Mouthing off at refs after they have given the decision is the bone of contention.

How many refs have you seen change their mind after being surrounded by teams?

How many refs have changed a decision because the captain has fúcked him out of it for a minute or so?

In my opinion, at the level we are at, this behaviour only serves to turn the ref against you. Id imagine it's the same in the Premier though. Refs think to themselves "fúck this, they keep mouthing like this after every decision, I'll give them nothing".

Here's an example of what you said.

We were playing one night last summer. I think we were one down at the time, early in the second half. Joe was clean through and tackled, I thought it was clean, but he tumbled. NOTE : DIDN'T DIVE. I screamed bloody murder for a penalty, so did a few of the players. We got it. And scored. Result!

Another example. There was a bit of tetchiness in a match recently. One of their players was going in a bit hard on us, possibly fouls, I scream for a free, ref gives it. Minute later, same player, another foul. This time I scream for a yellow card. Player booked and off for five minutes Result!

In my book, that's alright.

But surrounding a ref after he has given a decision is not on imo, neither is screaming in his face.

Terry takes liberties because he knows he can get away with it.

Pepe LeFrits

PHB wrote: »

I actually think Terry takes it to another level. While I think Gerrard is actually being incredibly smart, just like Keane Vieira were, Terry actually is doing something more. Takingthe card out of the refs hand is just absolutely nuts, can't see Keane, Vieira or Gerrard ever going that far.

He gets away with it, doesn't he?

He's pushing the limits of what is legal to gain advantage for his team. Until referees are told to clamp down on it, it'll keep happening. Sin é.

Xavi6

DesF wrote: »

Terry takes liberties because he knows he can get away with it.

Exactly. So we've established that Terry is NOT the root of the problem, the refs are. Hence me picking option A in the poll.

Savman

DesF wrote: »

In my book, that's alright.

I have to read that book! So if you're willing to give the ref a hard time in amateur football, perhaps that explains why, at the very very top, there is blue murder for every decision, far more at stake. Millions of pounds, contracts, livelihoods, contracts, hell even careers.

Maybe that's why the Refs let it go, but I'm just speculating. I haven't the faintest notion why its not clamped down upon but I do know, as has been my whole point, that JT is just one of a hundred players who are guilty of it.

He's Chelsea captain, that's bad enough for most people to accept when they see him lifting trophies year after year. But being England captain too makes him the Antichrist on this side of the Irish Sea.

Tiocfaidh ar la.

_blank_

Savman wrote: »

I have to read that book!

I'll have a copy with me next week. Do you want it signed?

Savman wrote: »

So if you're willing to give the ref a hard time in amateur football,

Not after the decision is made.

Not all up in his face with spit landing on his lips, no.

Savman wrote: »

perhaps that explains why, at the very very top, there is blue murder for every decision, far more at stake. Millions of pounds, contracts, livelihoods, contracts, hell even careers.

Yeah, I understand this. But a bit of self control wouldn't go amiss.

There wasn't this surrounding of refs and ranting twenty, thirty years ago.

Savman wrote: »

Maybe that's why the Refs let it go, but I'm just speculating. I haven't the faintest notion why its not clamped down upon but I do know, as has been my whole point, that JT is just one of a hundred players who are guilty of it.

Refs haven't the balls to clamp down.

Unless a directive comes from the FA, UEFA or FIFA then they won't.

Savman wrote: »

He's Chelsea captain, that's bad enough for most people to accept when they see him lifting trophies year after year. But being England captain too makes him the Antichrist on this side of the Irish Sea.

Tiocfaidh ar la.

Ah come on mate, you know I'm not like that.

Savman

DesF wrote: »

There wasn't this surrounding of refs and ranting twenty, thirty years ago.

Ah, a bit of back-in-my-day-itis
There wasn't the indiscipline, sure, but there also wasn't the huge sums of cash being pumped into the game. Nowadays, one refereeing decision can be the difference between Champion's League football and UEFA cup football, which equates into MILLIONS at stake. Like I said, careers are on the line probably now more than ever, with the financial pressure bearing down on most clubs you can kinda understand why they are encouraged to fight for every decision, sometimes literally. I'm not actually disagreeing with you that this is not acceptable behaviour, I just don't think Terry deserves to be singled out and scapegoated.

DesF wrote:

Ah come on mate, you know I'm not like that.

Not you maybe, but some are. You have to admit it's a bit coincidental we're talking about a Chelsea and England captain. Non-Chelsea fans have no reason to like JT and I'll go so far as to say its pure envy. The more he succeeds the less people will like him. Thing is, I doubt the guy cares tbh.

BaZmO*

Savman wrote: »

Ah, a bit of back-in-my-day-itis
There wasn't the indiscipline, sure, but there also wasn't the huge sums of cash being pumped into the game.

I'd say the difference was that back in the day refs weren't giving frees for the type of fouls that they giving them for now!

kryogen

im just gonna point out a few simple facts

A. JT is a leader
B. JT is a great captain
C. JT gets special treatment because he is England captain
D. The media (english) will demonise anyone who goes against him
E. Roy Keane did not start the trend
F. I have an itchy back
G. JT is a bully
H. This is not sectarian based

_blank_

ok....sorry

growler

Crucificition would be too bloody good for him imo, giving out to referees even when they get a decision wrong! outrageous!

Those pics of scousers doing the same thing are completely different as that's just friendly banter and the referees probably cant understand them anyway, or ferguson having a blue / purple fit on the sideline when his pet portuguese show pony gets blown over by someone's breathing is also different coz he has nice hair and it costs a fortune to get it restyled,

really, get some perspective iregk.


I've checked the diary and couldn't see anything about this being anti-chelsea week, but i'll make a note of it for next year.

Mr Alan

Growler-you're the most anti Chelsea poster on these boards!

growler

that's why i'm making a note of it for next year, gives me a chance to do my homework properly and save up a few choice stats etc.

the next two days should be good though