All 08 cars may have road tax done on emissions.

Riskymove · 27-02-2008 3:03pm

quarryman wrote: »

interesting. so you can import a sub 225 emission car after July and you will NEVER be charged based on the emissions?

that certainly is interesting if true and a (probably THE) departure from the original plan

-Chris- · 27-02-2008 3:03pm

Lex Luthor wrote: »

ok, nevermind the bit about someone being able to "afford" a new '08 car...

the problem I see happening is there will be people out there arguing the fact that why should they pay more road tax than johnny next door if johnny has a new '08 car and this person has an older car but the same engine

This was happening anyway, I think this move is mainly to protect those people who ordered cars in Oct/Nov last year for '08 delivery - the goal posts moved for them on budget day, Gormley is trying to move the goalposts back (as much as he can - he doesn't control VRT, only Road Tax).

Riskymove · 27-02-2008 3:06pm

Lex Luthor wrote: »

the problem I see happening is there will be people out there arguing the fact that why should they pay more road tax than johnny next door if johnny has a new '08 car and this person has an older car but the same engine

well this has been the case since the original announcement in December..lots of people are arguing all sorts of things......can;t see why latest announcement changes anything.....

..but bear in mind the opposite can also occur, as in people with 07 model could be paying LESS tax than the post July 08 version.

DJ Hafez · 27-02-2008 3:06pm

Right, So i import a car in June 08. Its a '02 Golf GT TDI. I pay current VRT rates and CC Tax.

I import in August 08. Same car - I pay new VRT and CC tax? Is that right?

sonners · 27-02-2008 3:08pm

Lads, fair play to ye for explaining all this as simply as possible. Finally starting to get my head around it. Just one question though:

I have a '99 car which is over 225g/km (hence why I'm watching this topic closely!), I understand that as I have the car over a year I will continue to tax it under the old system ~€500 pa. When I sell my car next year will the new owner be taxing it under the old system ~€500 or the new system €2000??? I ask because this will obviously affect the ease of resale considerably.

Any ideas?

dessierb · 27-02-2008 3:10pm

AudiChris wrote: »

If your import gets an Irish plate that's 07, 06 or 05 and you bring it in before 1st July you'll pay VRT & Road Tax based on the current system.

If your import gets an Irish plate that's 07, 06 or 05 and you bring it in after 1st July you'll pay VRT based on the new system & Road Tax based on the current system.

If your import gets an Irish plate that's 08 and you bring it in before 1st July you'll pay VRT on the current system & Road Tax based on the new system.

If your import gets an Irish plate that's 08 and you bring it in after 1st July you'll pay VRT & Road Tax based on the new system.

The idea is to stop a dealer having two '06 BMW 320d cars on two different road tax systems.

Finally.. a simple answer. Thank you very much...

Riskymove · 27-02-2008 3:10pm

sonners wrote: »

Lads, fair play to ye for explaining all this as simply as possible. Finally starting to get my head around it. Just one question though:

I have a '99 car which is over 225g/km (hence why I'm watching this topic closely!), I understand that as I have the car over a year I will continue to tax it under the old system ~€500 pa. When I sell my car next year will the new owner be taxing it under the old system ~€500 or the new system €2000??? I ask because this will obviously affect the ease of resale considerably.

Any ideas?

based on all discussions to date, nothing will change for your car if sold on.
It is only the first registration of the car that matters.

the issue of >225g/km is not crystal clear yet as there is no official announcment but we seem top think its only for imports of cars from now on rather than existing cars >225g/km

...EDIT actually if that is the case then it contradicts the ideas set out in above post, i.e. you will have 2 different car tax regimes for the same kind of car 9i.e. those over 225g/km) so it might not be that simple

sonners · 27-02-2008 3:16pm

Thanks RiskyMove, thats what I thought but was'nt a hundred percent sure if changing the owner counted as re-registering the car. I know its unlikely but there's a fair bit of money at stake for me so just wanted to be sure.

Thanks again lads, I'd be fairly lost in all this without yez

E92 · 27-02-2008 3:16pm

dessierb wrote: »

"The compromise formula to be announced by Mr Gormley will also ensure that lower-emission cars imported from the United Kingdom will be able to qualify for lower motor taxes, as long as they were sold after January 1st"

Am I going completely mad but does this not clearly give the impression that any import no matter what age as long as its first registered post jan08 is vtr'd and taxed on co2. Can anyone just give a simple answer, Maybe its my hangover but i cant get around this. E92 even your stumped on this one.....

I'll answer the PM you sent me here if you don't mind;). It looks like what AudiChris said is what's gonna happen. They're only giving you the option to change to the emissions system for anything with an 08 plate now it seems.

If what AudiChris said is true, then the situation for cars coming in from the UK is disgraceful. What happened here is that we effectively have a cartell here inflating the prices of used cars, so as to make the SIMI better off. There is an enormous amount of pollution created when a car is made. Apparently this isn't pollution at all:rolleyes:. If your car is a low emitter of CO2 then you'll pay higher road tax because you'll be done on engine size. If it's a high emitter of CO2 then you'll also be done for emissions instead. Presumably this also applies to VRT as well.

We don't need to be buying such a huge amount of new cars, especially when all we do is buy the bog spec model with a boggo engine as well, often specially imported for Ireland too. It's all about what the first 2 numbers on the reg plate say it seems. The only reason people buy cars with the least powerful engines and most basic trim possible must be snobbery then, just so they can say "I've got an 08".

sonners · 27-02-2008 3:18pm

Just saw ur edit RiskyMove, looks like I'll just have to wait til there's more clarification on the proposal

Thanks anyway

Steve · 27-02-2008 3:23pm

AudiChris wrote: »

The idea is to stop a dealer having two '06 BMW 320d cars on two different road tax systems.

Your statement contradicts itself.

If the first two examples you gave both arrive on the forecourt a few months later then they will have different tax rates on the same car.

E92 · 27-02-2008 3:27pm

I don't see them changing the system to go back to older cars that are already in the country. New car emissions keep falling every year, as an example, a BMW 520i from 96-99 is over the 225 g/km bracket, a 520i in 2004 is in the 191-225 g/km bracket, and now the 523i is in the 171-190 g/km bracket(and closer to the 170 g/km side of it too). In fact the 6 cylinder BMWs are more fuel efficient than the 4 cylinder ones from even 2 years ago!

Other cars would have similar patterns, e.g. there is a facelifted Mazda 5 out soon, and it will have a CO2 cut by on average 10% compared to the prefacelifted model, the facelifted A6 due out in the summer will offer a 12% improvement on CO2 compared to the one currently on sale, as I say, car emissions have dropped hugely in most cars in recent times, so going back any further than even 2 or 3 years ago with a €2k tax bill would affect a lot more cars than you'd think;)!

dessierb · 27-02-2008 3:30pm

Thanks E92 and everone else. I guess we will just have to wait and see what comes out from the Department.

Riskymove · 27-02-2008 3:34pm

dessierb wrote: »

Thanks E92 and everone else. I guess we will just have to wait and see what comes out from the Department.

actually now that I think about it...they may well only apply the max charge to further imports over 225g/km...simply as a deterent to stop people importing such cars

It would be very difficult to retrospectively put all exisiting cars > 225 on the new system.

3ps · 27-02-2008 3:40pm

anyone?

if I import a 1992 car tomorrow that has no CO2 cert then do I pay under the current system or 2000?????

E92 · 27-02-2008 3:40pm

Riskymove wrote: »

actually now that I think about it...they may well only apply the max charge to further imports over 225g/km...simply as a deterent to stop people importing such cars

It would be very difficult to retrospectively put all existing cars > 225 on the new system.

They said originally that any used car imported after July will be done on emissions no matter what.

Under the new system, does this mean if I import a used car before July with more than 225 g/km CO2 that I will have to pay €2k tax a year and 36% VRT on it though? Or just simply if I import a car after July with more than 225 g/km CO2 then I'll pay the higher road tax and VRT?

Padraig Mor · 27-02-2008 3:49pm

AudiChris wrote: »

OK lads, I've spoken to someone who's "very close" to this whole process and here's what he's explained to me:

Irish Cars

1) Changes to road tax only affect cars registered here after 1st Jan '08.

2) If you bought your new car since 1st January and you've taxed it already, you'll be allowed to avail of the lower road tax rates after 1st July.
I.e. if you taxed your car for a year in January, you'll get the lower rate next January. If you're buying a car off me tomorrow I'd advise you to tax it for 6 months and then when you renew your tax in August you'll get the lower rate.

3) If you're in a car that should be in the higher rate, you won't be forced into the higher rate.

Imports

1) Only cars that would qualify for a '08 plate as an import will qualify for the new road tax rate. If you bring in a '06 car from the UK it'll be taxed on the CC based road tax EVEN IF IT'S IMPORTED AFTER JULY.

2) The only exception to the above is if you import a car that is >225g/km, if you import and tax one of those then you'll automatically be put into the €2,000 road tax bracket from 1st July.

That's my understanding and it's from someone who knows...

As I guessed!

vectra · 27-02-2008 3:54pm

Lex Luthor wrote: »

but I still couldn't afford to buy a '08 car this year in the car of my choice

Sometimes you just gotta compromise.
I would have dearly loved to buy a BMW 520D this year but ... Dreams are cheap

Riskymove · 27-02-2008 4:11pm

E92 wrote: »

They said originally that any used car imported after July will be done on emissions no matter what.

Under the new system, does this mean if I import a used car before July with more than 225 g/km CO2 that I will have to pay €2k tax a year and 36% VRT on it though? Or just simply if I import a car after July with more than 225 g/km CO2 then I'll pay the higher road tax and VRT?

I dont think imports before July are affected but its not fully clear.

While the original plan was for all imports after July to be on the new system, the latest suggestion (see audichris post) is that cars imported after july WONT be put on new system UNLESS they are 08 onwards or are over 225g/km

but my point was about the suggestion that ALL existing cars over 225 would also be put on the new system. I think thats a very difficult thing to do.

Riskymove · 27-02-2008 4:12pm

3ps wrote: »

anyone?

if I import a 1992 car tomorrow that has no CO2 cert then do I pay under the current system or 2000?????

the "suggestion" has been that if you cant produce a cert stating CO2 emmissions you will be hit with highest tax,i.e. €2,000

Padraig Mor · 27-02-2008 4:14pm

Slightly OT: Does anyone know if there will be any changes to the new VRT system? i.e. will a 07 or earlier imported car be liable to VRT at the "old" rate? Some of the articles refer to "motor tax" but that could be interpreted as including VRT.

Riskymove · 27-02-2008 4:17pm

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Slightly OT: Does anyone know if there will be any changes to the new VRT system? i.e. will a 07 or earlier imported car be liable to VRT at the "old" rate? Some of the articles refer to "motor tax" but that could be interpreted as including VRT.

no only motor tax - VRT is for Finance not Environment, new change generally to give those who bought a lower emmission car a chance to opt into tax rates.

The VRT would remain until July I guess as so many cars would have been bought by now and I doubt there is gonna be a refund on the VRT

Robbo · 27-02-2008 4:35pm

From what I read of the new proposals, it's quite obvious they've come directly from the SIMI. To preempt a glut of 2-3 year old low Co2 cars that will benefit from the new system, the stay on the old motor tax rates up to Dec 31st 2007 will make it far less atractive to do this.

The figleaf is the reduction in VRT rates which allow us to pretend this is an entirely environmental thing. It'll allow SIMI members to have a complete monopoly on the new car market (as before) but also to regain ground lost in the secondhand market to people importing from the UK for at least a year.

Personally, I'm raging because I have a 330d touring bought to be registered in July. I'm looking at my expected motor tax going from €600 p.a. to €1109 (+9%) p.a.

May as well look at 330i petrols now, Co2 be damned...

-Chris- · 27-02-2008 4:38pm

3ps wrote: »

anyone?

if I import a 1992 car tomorrow that has no CO2 cert then do I pay under the current system or 2000?????

Nope, your 1992 car will get an 02 registration and so will be under the engine size based system.

stevec wrote: »

Your statement contradicts itself.

If the first two examples you gave both arrive on the forecourt a few months later then they will have different tax rates on the same car.

No it doesn't...

AudiChris wrote: »

If your import gets an Irish plate that's 07, 06 or 05 and you bring it in before 1st July you'll pay VRT & Road Tax based on the current system.

If your import gets an Irish plate that's 07, 06 or 05 and you bring it in after 1st July you'll pay VRT based on the new system & Road Tax based on the current system.

... both cars are road taxed on the current system.

E92 wrote: »

They said originally that any used car imported after July will be done on emissions no matter what.

Under the new system, does this mean if I import a used car before July with more than 225 g/km CO2 that I will have to pay €2k tax a year and 36% VRT on it though? Or just simply if I import a car after July with more than 225 g/km CO2 then I'll pay the higher road tax and VRT?

This is the one bit I'm a little unclear on, but I think in your example if you import before July you'll be on engine size VRT and normal road tax and if you import after 1st July you'll be on CO2 VRT and €2,000.
Imports will be on engine size Road Tax unless they qualify for a '08 plate, the only anomoly is if they're >225g/km where they'll be charged at €2,000.

Steve · 27-02-2008 4:55pm

AudiChris wrote: »

No it doesn't...

... both cars are road taxed on the current system.

Apologies, I mis-read your post.

MuffinsDa · 27-02-2008 5:24pm

DJ Hafez wrote: »

Right, So i import a car in June 08. Its a '02 Golf GT TDI. I pay current VRT rates and CC Tax.

I import in August 08. Same car - I pay new VRT and CC tax? Is that right?

No. READ! You'll get CC Tax and current VRT rate in both cases.

-Chris- · 27-02-2008 5:33pm

stevec wrote: »

Apologies, I mis-read your post.

Nae bother

Riskymove · 27-02-2008 5:52pm

MuffinsDa wrote: »

No. READ! You'll get CC Tax and current VRT rate in both cases.

In fairness this is what's not clear at present. we have no definite position!!

Under the announcment in December ALL imports, regardless of age, after July were to be on the new VRT and new Motor Tax rates based on emmissions

Now we are not so sure, we will have to wait for official details. The latest talk seems to suggest that if you import a car aged before 08 it stays on the current Motor Tax (unless it has emmissions over 225g/km where it will get the top rate of the new system, i.e. €2,000)

but if you import an 08 (presumably july 08!) or later car you are on new Motor tax system.

Nothing was mentioned about VRT thats for Finance not Environment.

Flankerb · 27-02-2008 5:55pm

Hi Chris,
I had a plan to bring a 07 car in from the uk after july 1st. It would have been in the new band b tax bracket 150 euro's. Does this mean that the car will now fall into the current tax system and go up to 590euro as it is a 1.9tdi. I think SIMI have a new member. SimiGreen Party.

:mad: karl

Riskymove · 27-02-2008 6:03pm

Flankerb wrote: »

Hi Chris,
I had a plan to bring a 07 car in from the uk after july 1st. It would have been in the new band b tax bracket 150 euro's. Does this mean that the car will now fall into the current tax system and go up to 590euro as it is a 1.9tdi. I think SIMI have a new member. SimiGreen Party.

:mad: karl

see above, we dont know for sure yet...

some consolation....if it is true then you could import an 08 next year instead to be on the new system!!

All 08 cars may have road tax done on emissions.

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