stopping for customs dipping diesel

alo1587

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Customs have more powers than the cops when it comes to search warrents and seisures of property including your car. If they are dipping they can insist on taking a sample from the fuel pump if they suspect you are using a false tank. As regards not wearing a hat I would not like to challenge them on that one

Well it says full uniform including hat in their document, they made the rules didnt they?I wouldnt regard a hi viz vest as being "proper official uniform" would you?

Stephen

Good luck challenging them on it, they'll just deny it.

cashmni1

Stekelly wrote: »

How is stopping people doing something illegal a witchhunt?

Not what was said. Lets call it revenue collection.
Innocent people are also caught up in this too. What about the garages who buy agri diesel and sell it as regular (washed and all that)?
What about the people who pay for what they think is regular diesel and get the washed stuff?
They too get fined by the customs.

Fyr.Fytr

alo1587 wrote: »

I've read up a fair bit on the revenue website before about customs checkpoints and it states that you can only be stopped by a customs officer if they are wearing their full uniform including hat.You may laugh at this but its true.I'll try and find the section/act where it is stated.

alo1587 wrote: »

Found it:

http://www.revenue.ie/services/foi/s16_2001/min_pt4.pdf

Check Part 4 MOTOR VEHICLE FUEL, Section 3 POWERS OF OFFICERS.Around page 21/22.
Elstemed, I wouldn't be too inclined to stop for a lad wearing a hi viz vest standing in the road either

Hope this helps..

Elstemed wrote: »

after reading the document from te revenue next time i come across a checkpoint i will stop check the officers are in full uniform and the likes and then point it out to them and head off on my merry way. easy lads this guy wasnt using green diesel he just didnt stop for them because they didnt look official. will pass on that document alo

Dare you to try it in court, i personally witnessed a defendant try this only for the judge to reply "He was hardly the milkman now was he??"

No one has ever to my knowlege been let off for an officer not wearing a hat

worded wrote: »

If you are caught with the wrong diesel whats the fine?

€2,000 i think for first offence anything after that can result in vehicle being seized

Fyr.Fytr

cashmni1 wrote: »

Not what was said. Lets call it revenue collection.
Innocent people are also caught up in this too. What about the garages who buy agri diesel and sell it as regular (washed and all that)?
What about the people who pay for what they think is regular diesel and get the washed stuff?
They too get fined by the customs.

They can contest it in court and customs will check the service stations involved, a station full of MGO or Washed is a far better result then one car

Same goes for all crime where innocent people are decieved

Steve

Fyr.Fytr wrote: »

Dare you to try it in court, i personally witnessed a defendant try this only for the judge to reply "He was hardly the milkman now was he??"

No one has ever to my knowlege been let off for an officer not wearing a hat

I sincerely doubt you heard that.

It's fairly black and white in the finance act that the customs & excise officer must be in uniform - it's not specified for a Guard.

The Judge cannot choose to ignore a point of law and must dismiss the case. in laymans terms it's called getting off on a technicality and it happens all the time.

Fyr.Fytr

I was there in the court and heard it with my own two ears

The judge in question must be one of the few people in the judicial system with any common sense

Steve

Fyr.Fytr wrote: »

I was there in the court and heard it with my own two ears

The judge in question must be one of the few people in the judicial system with any common sense

Was the guy still convicted?
any solicitor worth his salt would have got that thrown out.

I agree that a Judge should be allowed to apply common sense to the situation - they can't.
Criminals (sorry, suspects) walk free all the time because of this.
e.g. the Kerry Judge who got off because even though they had stacks of evidence, it couldn't be used because the Guards were an hour late searching his house.

BTW couldn't find anything in the act to say there had to be signs up at a checkpoint.

alo1587

Fyr.Fytr wrote: »

Yes you do you are required to stop for customs, if you look at the customs or vat acts itll be contained somewhere there

Found this during a google search

"Revenue officers engaged in Customs or Excise duties may request
a driver to bring a motor vehicle (and this includes a container or
trailer) to a halt, where it is reasonably believed that smuggled
goods or excisable products are being carried. They may also
request a vehicle to stop in order to check payment of Vehicle
Registration Tax. Normally, a vehicle will be stopped by uniformed
officers and clearly visible signs will be placed at appropriate
intervals at the roadside. Inspection of the vehicle and goods will be
carried out as quickly as possible. Officers may also request that
Statement of Practice SP- Gen/1/94 (Revised February 2006)
boats, vessels, and other conveyances be brought to a halt for
examination."

As in your quote Fyr.Fytr, it said "a vehicle will be stopped by uniformed officers".If there's no signs up and the guy standing by the road is not wearing a uniform, why should you stop?

Fyr.Fytr

The case in question involved a checkpoint with customs signs stating STOP CUSTOMS CHECK POINT, a customs vehicle with a matrix sign in the back window flashing CUSTOMS STOP STOP STOP and the officer was wearing a hi-vis jacket with customs markings

alo1587

Well the poster that started this thread, stated that there were no customs checkpoint signs present, so i'm just replying to his particular situation.

Elstemed

so if there were sign up it doesnt make a difference how the officer would be dressed but if there were no signs present the officer would have to be in full uniform (hat and all).

Fyr.Fytr

Well the officer in this case was wearing a customs hi-vis and youd need to be driving too fast or blind not to notice CUSTOMS and CUSTAIM written all over it

MAKE MY DAY

Below is the legislation that governs the stopping of vehicles in relation to "dipping" for diesel etc..


Finance Act, 2001



Power to stop vehicles.
134.—(1) An officer in uniform may stop any vehicle in order—

(a) that such officer, or any officer accompanying such officer, may exercise any power conferred on them by section 135 in relation to excisable products or any other products chargeable with a duty of excise, where there are reasonable grounds to believe that such products are being transported in or on such vehicle, or

(b) to examine and take samples of mineral oil under section 135 (2)(a).

(2) An officer in uniform or a member of the Garda Síochána may stop any vehicle for any purpose related to vehicle registration tax or the registration of vehicles in any of the registers established and maintained under Chapter IV of Part II of the Finance Act, 1992 .

(3) Any person in charge of a moving vehicle shall, at the request of an officer in uniform or a member of the Garda Síochána, stop such vehicle.

(4) Any person in charge of a vehicle shall, whether such vehicle has been stopped by an officer or member of the Garda Síochána under this section, or is already stationary, at the request of an officer or member of the Garda Síochána—

(a) keep such vehicle stationary for such period as is reasonably required to enable an officer or member to exercise any power conferred on such officer or member by section 135 , or

(b) where such vehicle is in the opinion of such officer or member situated in a place unsuitable for the exercise of any power conferred on such officer or member by section 135 , take such vehicle or cause it to be taken to such place as such officer or member may consider suitable for the exercise of such power.

Elstemed

Just talking my friend that drove through the checkpoint and he says that there were no signs leading up to the checkpoint but the officers were fully dressed. the officer was standing dangerously in the middle of a crossroads. he said it all looked a bit dubious. they only had an unmarked car and no flashing lights and there were 2 officers and the other officer was dipping/talking to an other car