Is this forum getting too commercial?

cornbb

Yesterday, I took action to put a halt to a thread that was descending into mudslinging. This thread is an attempt to allow mature discussion on the matter. jtsuited, here is the soapbox you desire. Say what you have to say in a civilised, impersonal matter if you want this thread to go anywhere.

white_falcon

Hi guys,
I've been here a few times lately since a few months ago, and have been looking at threads and discussing stuff with people about advice on how to record, what hardware to use, etc.

My first opinion of this forum was that it was for amateur home recording all the way up to professional studio recording. However, lately I do feel that there has been a lot of "professional" engineers or people that own studios etc. that have been advertising their service slyly. I don't mean that to sound offensive at all. I just think that some people have replied to posts in a joking manner saying things like "well sure i have a place in dublin and do that for customers if you need to drop by lol" - now not those exact words, but things along that line.

Theres also sometimes things such as "We're having a X product day on X day to show of some of our new range of X, and there will be free tea and coffee and a discount for boardsters" etc. Thats nice and all, but its more on the commercial line, rather than what I was expecting from the forum

Also some of the threads like "some free things for you" that sign you up for music magazines that I just personally feel, are aimed at a commercial audience. I have no problem with that, but I didnt really think that was what this forum was about.

One other small thing. I have had great feedback from lots of people on here and advice etc. However, I have got the feeling now and again that some of the "professional sound/audio engineers" do almost look down upon you when asking a very simple question. I feel like asking a really simple question about something as simple as why am i getting background noise when recording X, or something even simpler, does get looked down upon almost by some posters

Just my opinion anyhoo

jtsuited

as far as i can see the only professional engineers here are studiorat and trackmixstudio.
I don't think they've been too guilty of any wrongdoing, bar the odd plug maybe (but that's only natural).
Strictly speaking I probably am, as I make money out of my own productions, remixes, and do an odd bit of mastering for a few dance labels.
I have done many engineering/production/session musician jobs and I have given many lectures on a City & Guilds Music Technology course.
But i'm not in the realm of engineer for hire with regular clients so I'm not going to pretend to be.
but it's probably relevant as well that both my grandfather and father are/were professional engineers (to the extent that my grandfather knew Rupert Neve personally), and i've spent my whole life around this kind of thing.

Yet I don't feel the need to go on about how 'pro' my experience is, and recommend things from a 'pro' perspective. Or namedrop (yes i know i just namedropped above).

My point is, there is a difference between people who are here who are professionals and those that are here solely in a professional context.

Niall - Dahlia

I voted no. It was't so long ago that we were inundated with a tide of "how do i record stuff on my pc?" threads, and people felt this place catered only for the amateur home studio. Then when some engineers come along who do this for a career, people complain.

The only thing that annoys me sometimes is when somebody's friend in the business recommends their service, basically you scratch my back I'll scratch yours. I think if you want to recommend your studio in a thread, you do it yourself, not have your mate on this forum do if for you. I rarely mention SALT on any threads because to honest by the time I see a thread of a band looking for a studio there's already a load of replies from people who rarely contribute here or somebody recommending their friends place.

This place has got pretty ugly and personal lately though.

frobisher

Niall - Dahlia wrote: »

I voted no. It was't so long ago that we were inundated with a tide of "how do i record stuff on my pc?" threads, and people felt this place catered only for the amateur home studio. Then when some engineers come along who do this for a career, people complain.

The only thing that annoys me sometimes is when somebody's friend in the business recommends their service, basically you scratch my back I'll scratch yours. I think if you want to recommend your studio in a thread, you do it yourself, not have your mate on this forum do if for you. I rarely mention SALT on any threads because to honest by the time I see a thread of a band looking for a studio there's already a load of replies from people who rarely contribute here or somebody recommending their friends place.

This place has got pretty ugly and personal lately though.

Great post and very well put.

I also agree that it's gotten too ugly and personal round here lately. It's as bad as I've ever seen it be in a few years hanging round round these parts.

jtsuited

Niall - Dahlia wrote: »

The only thing that annoys me sometimes is when somebody's friend in the business recommends their service, basically you scratch my back I'll scratch yours. I think if you want to recommend your studio in a thread, you do it yourself, not have your mate on this forum do if for you.

This particular thing has been rampant lately.

jtsuited

So we have one mod saying "it's borderline", and many others chiming in to talk about how the tone around here has seriously changed (ie "it has got more commercial, but maybe not too commercial").
yet we've had ban warnings, deleted posts and bans handed out for discussing it.

btw, while i know the mods' stance has been changed, surely there's no need for savman's ban now that we're allowed to discuss it. or is it 'he must be punished because he disobeyed the rules'? Even though the rules have clearly changed now.

PaulBrewer

And there I was thinking that all this was let out on the Feedback thread!

Here are few things -

1 . You become a music professional because people pay you because they think you're good. Therefore if you're any good....... you may become a Pro. (this is in no way dissing the Home Guy)

2. If you do something for a long time professionally one learns things through experience. I didn't know I knew so much til I started getting asked questions when I worked in Music Maker. I don't claim to know all but am prepared to share.

3. What Pros know applies directly to the home situation, I just posted to another thread with a little bit of info I hope will be of use to jimi_t . There's that statement in action.
It isn't , in my view, Home Recording and Pro Recording but Good Recording and Bad Recording.

4. I think that the quality of recording in Ireland is overall, abysmal. However I'd rather argue for Posh stuff rather than sell the 'dream' you can make great band recording on a 8-Track Multi tracker, unless your idea of 'great' is different to mine, which may be part of the problem as I see it.

5. Unbeknownst to myself I seem to have touched some nerves along the way which wasn't my intention - However I'll defend every post's content - you are, of course, welcome to disagree. However spare me the ranting.

6. I'm very disappointed at the low tone some of the discussions have taken. That's of no use to anybody - That kind of Negativity is bad for Music and Bad for the Music Business. I don't mind being taken to task as I know I can be a mouthy fecker but I feel that kind of thing ought not be tolerated.

7. I still work Semi - Professionally most weekends in the studio because I love the shizit! I also love bangin' on about it. If you don't like what I say don't read my posts.... or better still instead of giving out, Post something of more interest.

8. Some of you have been here a long time - unlike myself. I guess what's really happening is you need to decide do you want Professionals such as myself and StudioRat etc. who have stated Commercial interests posting - or do you not?

If you do, then you'll have to filter all we say with that in mind... you ain't stupid now are ya?

If not, then perhaps that should be in the rules, and we'll head off?

Remember it was me who suggested a (sub) forum for Pros at the name change. The valid point was made that there wasn't really enough of us. Perhaps the opposite might be an idea - a 'Newbie' Sub Forum where posters don't feel threatened by guys who know Pin 3 is hot.


And for fear things will get too quiet around here, just for my 'fans' is a picture of me and Rupert Neve in London on the pish....















P.S. Yea I know Pin 2 is hot, you fell for it!

dav nagle

PaulBrewer wrote: »

And there I was thinking that all this was let out on the Feedback thread!

Here are few things -

1 . You become a music professional because people pay you because they think you're good. Therefore if you're any good....... you may become a Pro. (this is in no way dissing the Home Guy)

I agree

2. If you do something for a long time professionally one learns things through experience. I didn't know I knew so much til I started getting asked questions when I worked in Music Maker. I don't claim to know all but am prepared to share.

cool,you are good for the info!

3. What Pros know applies directly to the home situation, I just posted to another thread with a little bit of info I hope will be of use to jimi_t . There's that statement in action.
It isn't , in my view, Home Recording and Pro Recording but Good Recording and Bad Recording.

Defo with you on that one

4. I think that the quality of recording in Ireland is overall, abysmal. However I'd rather argue for Posh stuff rather than sell the 'dream' you can make great band recording on a 8-Track Multi tracker, unless your idea of 'great' is different to mine, which may be part of the problem as I see it.

Poor old Irish engineers getting a bashing!

5. Unbeknownst to myself I seem to have touched some nerves along the way which wasn't my intention - However I'll defend every posts content - you are, of course, welcome to disagree. However spare me the ranting.

Cool

6. I'm very disappointed at the low tone some of the discussions have taken. That's of no use to anybody - That kind of Negativity is bad for Music and Bad for the Music Business. I don't mind being taken to task as I know I can be a mouthy fecker but I feel that kind of thing ought not be tolerated.

Does certainly be touchy around here!

7. I still work Semi - Professionally most weekends in the studio because I love the shizit! I also love bangin' on about it. If you don't like what I say don't read my posts.... or better still instead of giving out, Post something of more interest.

8. Some of you have been here a long time - unlike myself. I guess what's really happening is you need to decide do you want Professionals such as myself and StudioRat etc. who have stated Commercial interests posting - or do you not?

???

If you do, then you'll have to filter all we say with that in mind... you ain't stupid now are ya?

No IQ of 16

If not, then perhaps that should be in the rules, and we'll head off?

Dont head off!

(Remember it was me who suggested a (sub) forum for Pros at the name change. The valid point was made that there wasn't really enough of us.)

Fair enough

And for fear things will get too quiet around here, just for my 'fans' is a picture of me and Rupert Neve in London on the pish....

Cool,very small pic

jtsuited

paul brewer. Did you become a professional engineer/producer at any point in your life?

If so, how did you then end up in MusicMaker?

You are arguing for the Posh Stuff (fair enough), yet you have a clear vested interest in doing so. This kind of thing is sort of frowned upon, because you may not be giving accurate advice.

For instance, I noticed a while ago (can find the post if you want), you said something to the effect of you are not gonna get as good a sound from cheap plugins as you are from a 3 grand box of circuits and valves. Well do you as a dealer make more money from those big expensive boxes or from plugins that most people don't go to a dealership to buy?

This particular statement is wildly inaccurate, and when your only basis for saying it is 'i work in the pro-audio industry', I get understandably annoyed.


Granted some of your knowledge will be extremely helpful to many people, but much of your namedropping and general pushing of the posh stuff (your words, not mine) is simply not helpful in any way to the posters here. well not as far as i can see anyway.

many people coming here will generally not have much knowledge/experience in the area, so when you start recommending Apogee Duets to people whose budget is 20% of the cost of one, you are misleading people under your 'pro-this, pro-that' vibe.

add to that your sig, your Sonic Safari post, and numerous other times when you attempt to display some sort of profile in the recording industry, and you are easily going to lead many people down a route that while being beneficial to you, may not be in their best interest.

PaulBrewer

jtsuited wrote: »

paul brewer. Did you become a professional engineer/producer at any point in your life?

If so, how did you then end up in MusicMaker?

You are arguing for the Posh Stuff (fair enough), yet you have a clear vested interest in doing so. This kind of thing is sort of frowned upon, because you may not be giving accurate advice.

For instance, I noticed a while ago (can find the post if you want), you said something to the effect of you are not gonna get as good a sound from cheap plugins as you are from a 3 grand box of circuits and valves. Well do you as a dealer make more money from those big expensive boxes or from plugins that most people don't go to a dealership to buy?

This particular statement is wildly inaccurate, and when your only basis for saying it is 'i work in the pro-audio industry', I get understandably annoyed.


Granted some of your knowledge will be extremely helpful to many people, but much of your namedropping and general pushing of the posh stuff (your words, not mine) is simply not helpful in any way to the posters here. well not as far as i can see anyway.

many people coming here will generally not have much knowledge/experience in the area, so when you start recommending Apogee Duets to people whose budget is 20% of the cost of one, you are misleading people under your 'pro-this, pro-that' vibe.

"Did you become a professional engineer/producer at any point in your life?"

Yes , I've worked in studios here and the UK since I was 18. About 26 years now (last 5 mostly as a dealer).
I've worked in Westland and Windmill and Townhouse and Rockfield in the UK to name a few. I've also produced engineered played or programmed on Irish Multi Platinum selling albums. Including No. 1s. Mostly in the Country and Irish genre I'm afraid. Though I did record That Petrol Emotion and Christy Moore and Donal Lunny etc.

I've also played live with That Petrol Emotion on UK TV to 2.2 million people.

I've toured Uk, Europe (many times), The US (3 tours) and Australia or worked with live Andy White, Christy Moore , Something Happens, Voice of the Beehive, That Petrol Emotion, Madness (including their '92 comeback gigs to 72,000 people over 2 nights in Finsbury Park), Frank Black of the Pixies etc.

I've mixed Front-of-House at the Fleadh in Finsbury Park, London.

I've worked on Tours with Iggy Pop and Crowded House too.

I was house engineer at a studio in Athlone in the 80s and Monasterevin in the 90s.

I've also ran my own studio commercially for about 5 years in Tullamore. After that I was a bit worn out with the whole thing and got a great opportunity from Paul Lyttle in Musicmaker to manage and restructure the Hi-Tech floor where I learned an awful lot about Keyboards and the business.

After 3 months there I sold more in one month than anyone had since the store opened . I worked there for one year where I was the most successful saleman ever, over doubling the sales of my nearest colleague.

I now work semi-professionally Mixing, usually at weekends - My recent clients have been mixing The Blizzards and Glen Baker, son of Don, whose album we finish Saturday.

Anything else you'd like to know?

PaulBrewer

jtsuited wrote: »

. This kind of thing is sort of frowned upon, because you may not be giving accurate advice.

For instance, I noticed a while ago (can find the post if you want), you said something to the effect of you are not gonna get as good a sound from cheap plugins as you are from a 3 grand box of circuits and valves. Well do you as a dealer make more money from those big expensive boxes or from plugins that most people don't go to a dealership to buy?

This particular statement is wildly inaccurate, and when your only basis for saying it is 'i work in the pro-audio industry', I get understandably annoyed.


Granted some of your knowledge will be extremely helpful to many people, but much of your namedropping and general pushing of the posh stuff (your words, not mine) is simply not helpful in any way to the posters here. well not as far as i can see anyway.

many people coming here will generally not have much knowledge/experience in the area, so when you start recommending Apogee Duets to people whose budget is 20% of the cost of one, you are misleading people under your 'pro-this, pro-that' vibe.

add to that your sig, your Sonic Safari post, and numerous other times when you attempt to display some sort of profile in the recording industry, and you are easily going to lead many people down a route that while being beneficial to you, may not be in their best interest.

"This kind of thing is sort of frowned upon, because you may not be giving accurate advice."

Frowned upon by who, certainly not the Moderators who have consistently "frowned upon" your spiteful posts ? I refute entirely that I've ever given or will ever give accurate advice. That's how I make my living, giving good advice. Speaking of which .... have you ever posted anything relevant to music?

"you said something to the effect of you are not gonna get as good a sound from cheap plugins as you are from a 3 grand box of circuits and valves."
This is, in my opinion, the case,. If it wasn't then all manufacturers of high end gear wouldn't be in business, as everyone would simply buy the 'cheap plugins' - You've also quoted me out of context. My point was and is that it's manufacturers marketing that has home guys believe that a Euro 50 Plug-In will do the same job as a Hi End product.
Unless you've done a A/B comparison, you don't know.

"This particular statement is wildly inaccurate, and when your only basis for saying it is 'i work in the pro-audio industry', I get understandably annoyed."

No not 'understandably' and certainly not with the language, rudeness and implications in your posts.

"so when you start recommending Apogee Duets to people whose budget is 20% of the cost of one, you are misleading people under your 'pro-this, pro-that' vibe."
The Duet is a superb box at a fair price. Again you're quoting me out of context and there is NO misleading going on, again an unfair and untrue statement by you. If memory serves me my post was referring to the unit as an option that was/is getting great reviews. No more, no less.

"Granted some of your knowledge will be extremely helpful to many people, but much of your namedropping"
Get life will ya?, it's only a bit of craic- and as I said before, I've some nice names to drop.

"and general pushing of the posh stuff (your words, not mine) is simply not helpful in any way to the posters here. well not as far as i can see anyway."

Thats the real problem, Head, that's the real problem

jtsuited

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Anything else you'd like to know?

yes, are you going to respond to the rest of my post? edit i see you did.

i asked the question out of genuine curiousity. tbh, I'm quite underwhelmed as I know plenty of people who 'worked on huge albums' and 'worked with' mega-selling artists but come to me looking for advice all the time.

There used to be a lot of jobs in the industry in the time you're talking about, and hence this experience is not in anyway a sign of knowledge about today's recording world. Well not to me anyway.

If you had specifically been the producer on certain major albums, I would give you a lot more credit than I do. I personally know one engineer who engineered on 4 albums that sold over ten million copies back in those days, and he would be the first to admit that he's not the most knowledgeable about music technology. I'm not going to name obviously as he has a business to run.

My point is that while you may have all that experience, in the context of recommending products and whatnot, it is worth very little in terms of authority on the subject. I'm sorry but it's not.

jtsuited

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Unless you've done a A/B comparison, you don't know.

"

and you know i've never A/B'd any plugin against hardware? For the record I have, and have been around many A/B sessions when a certain large organisation was planning on purchasing a lot of plugins.

The only people who come out with misleading information like 'cheap plugins are never gonna sound as good as your posh hardware' are dealers like yourself.
theoretically and mathematically there is no reason why cheap plugins can't sound as good as expensive hardware.
I'm sure you know all about convolution technology and how it can accurately (to the extent that in a double-blind test the vast majority of skilled ears cannot tell the difference) recreate the quality of high end hardware. Or maybe not?
you seem like a person too obsessed with status, branding, and commerce, to give reasonable advice to people all the time.

and you don't get paid to give good advice. you get paid to sell gear and give advice that keeps the customers coming and buying. there is a world of difference.

But no, you will ignore that fact and present your own version of reality on the basis of 'pro-experience'.

PaulBrewer

jtsuited wrote: »

yes, are you going to respond to the rest of my post? edit i see you did.

i asked the question out of genuine curiousity. tbh, I'm quite underwhelmed as I know plenty of people who 'worked on huge albums' and 'worked with' mega-selling artists but come to me looking for advice all the time.

There used to be a lot of jobs in the industry in the time you're talking about, and hence this experience is not in anyway a sign of knowledge about today's recording world. Well not to me anyway.

If you had specifically been the producer on certain major albums, I would give you a lot more credit than I do. I personally know one engineer who engineered on 4 albums that sold over ten million copies back in those days, and he would be the first to admit that he's not the most knowledgeable about music technology. I'm not going to name obviously as he has a business to run.

My point is that while you may have all that experience, in the context of recommending products and whatnot, it is worth very little in terms of authority on the subject. I'm sorry but it's not.

"i asked the question out of genuine curiousity. tbh, I'm quite underwhelmed as I know plenty of people who 'worked on huge albums' and 'worked with' mega-selling artists but come to me looking for advice all the time."
I'm sure it's a dreadful burden .... what point are you trying to make- You're an expert?

"There used to be a lot of jobs in the industry in the time you're talking about, and hence this experience is not in anyway a sign of knowledge about today's recording world. "

Oh yeah? You obviously weren't around then now where you? In the 80s there were virtually no jobs for anyone, all my class mates left the country for work! I've worked consistently in the industry up to and including 'Today's recording world"
Also in Ireland at that time there was Nowhere to study recording- making it doubly hard to get into the industry.
You're clutching at straws now, remember everyone will read this tomorrow.
Also you will acknowledge my "dropped" names might be a source of a few nuggets of knowledge?

"Well not to me anyway." ah, the crux of the problem again.

"If you had specifically been the producer on certain major albums, I would give you a lot more credit than I do."
That sounds like an accusation of lying again? I didn't say major albums. As I said as well as the artists I mentioned I recorded a lot of Country and Irish albums, some as Producer, some as Engineer and some Programming. I worked with all the big names in that Genre , Daniel O'Donnell, Foster and Allen, Big Tom, Margo, Richie Kavanagh, Ray Lynam etc etc? I'll take that credit now, shall I?

"My point is that while you may have all that experience, in the context of recommending products and whatnot, it is worth very little in terms of authority on the subject. I'm sorry but it's not"

And what, exactly, in your educated opinion would be?

I really can't believe you're still posting this nonsense - when are you going to back down?
I'm not the baddie and you're just embarrassing yourself...

jtsuited

PaulBrewer wrote: »

" I worked with all the big names in that Genre , Daniel O'Donnell, Foster and Allen, Big Tom, Margo, Richie Kavanagh, Ray Lynam etc etc? I'll take that credit now, shall I?

lol. i think i need not say more on the matter.
i'm finished with this now, as I don't really have much faith in you actually using reason or logic in this discussion.
maybe drop a few names instead? that seems to work!:D

PaulBrewer

jtsuited wrote: »

and you know i've never A/B'd any plugin against hardware? For the record I have, and have been around many A/B sessions when a certain large organisation was planning on purchasing a lot of plugins.

The only people who come out with misleading information like 'cheap plugins are never gonna sound as good as your posh hardware' are dealers like yourself.
theoretically and mathematically there is no reason why cheap plugins can't sound as good as expensive hardware.
I'm sure you know all about convolution technology and how it can accurately (to the extent that in a double-blind test the vast majority of skilled ears cannot tell the difference) recreate the quality of high end hardware. Or maybe not?
you seem like a person too obsessed with status, branding, and commerce, to give reasonable advice to people all the time.

and you don't get paid to give good advice. you get paid to sell gear and give advice that keeps the customers coming and buying. there is a world of difference.

But no, you will ignore that fact and present your own version of reality on the basis of 'pro-experience'.

"and you know i've never A/B'd any plugin against hardware?" No, that's why I asked

" For the record I have, and have been around many A/B sessions when a certain large organisation was planning on purchasing a lot of plugins" Specifics Head, remember everyones watching...

"theoretically and mathematically" Oh? It's musically I'm interested in - and most of the best ears on the planet disagree with that...

"there is no reason why cheap plugins can't sound as good as expensive hardware." Perhaps, and maybe someday they will.

"you seem like a person too obsessed with status, branding, and commerce, to give reasonable advice to people all the time." You've never met me- that's just another petty comment. What exactly is your beef?

"you get paid to sell gear and give advice that keeps the customers coming and buying." They'd only do that if it's good advice, No? and gave them what they wanted to get from the transaction? - or are you dissing my customers now too?

PaulBrewer

jtsuited wrote: »

lol. i think i need not say more on the matter.
i'm finished with this now, as I don't really have much faith in you actually using reason or logic in this discussion.
maybe drop a few names instead? that seems to work!:D

I've answered all your questions accurately and honestly - that's all I can do. Lets see what the other board members think in the morning....

frobisher

Paul & jtsuited, you guys are taking this thread away from a very relevant discussion into a bit of a "did not/did too" willy measuring contest. Can we bring it back on topic or are we really facing pistols at dawn here? As 2 great posters it'd be nice to put this to bed and have you back contributing and growing the board rather than arguing, regardless of whether one or both of you is is right or wrong.

If it doesn't get brought back on topic straight away I'll have to delete some posts and I hate doing that. BUT, if you guys agree and request it I'll delete the above posts to bring the whole thread back on topic and we're all back on an even keel.

As a reminder here is an extract from this boards charter:
• No personal attacks or offensive remarks. Let’s be nice to each other round here. Warnings will be followed by bans for offenders.
• All levels of knowledge are welcome from the most advanced to the most basic. By answering simple questions and helping learners we grow our community. If you reeaaaally need to tell someone to RTFM, do it nicely!

PaulBrewer

Yea, I suppose.
I'm just annoyed at being constantly attacked and no answer being good enough - perhaps I ought not be too sensitive!
Anyways, Forum members can make up their own minds. Feel free to delete, though I'd prefer you to leave it so others can see what all the (pointless!) fuss was about.

Cheers from a slightly more relaxed me...

ogy

i think having everyone from novices to experienced pros/dealers all active on the one forum should be a massive advantage. its madness to be getting on someones case for sayin "heres a load of magazines that will help you get better at recording", "im organising a free day for you to meet some people who know loads of stuff and ask them questions/try out equipment" etc. of course such people have a vested interest in maintaining and encouraging our interest in music and recording but i don't think theyre doing it in a cold/corporate way. as theyve said we're free to take them up on all these things but then never buy anything from them:)
what theyre doing is about as underhanded as someone saying "hey, ive just finished these tunes, let me know what you think of the mixes" when secretely theyre hoping you'll like the music and maybe add them as a friend on myspace, scoundrels:)
if someone on the board was organising something like this and didn't tell us, knowing that a lot of readers would be interested, would it not be ridiculous?

on top of all this theyre more than happy to offer up advice whenever anyone asks. i think that advice is generally impartial and reflects theyre experience, its not like "well i think you should buy this from me, its the only thing that will solve your problems". why should my replies be ok to query despite my limited experience, and someone elses replies be called into question because they have more experience and more access to equipment than me, thats a bit ridiculous i think.

name dropping lends gravitas to someone point of view, its partly self gratifying but its partly shows that "i didn't just read this in sound on sound". if i landed a job engineering an album for someone pretty famous id probably mention it loads, and half the name dropping has occurred because the person has been baited into it.

i think all these general questions about "is this forum getting too commerical" all stems from personal questioning of one or two posters, who in my opinion have had a positive impact on the forum since they arrived, and if nothing else have generated a bit of variation to the types of posts and discussions on the forum.

Almost all the posts that have been called into question in my opinion have been maybe 80% helping the community and 20% in the persons own interest. This is fine with me, as we're all grown ups and Big Bad Mr. Paul isn't gonna trick me into buying anything i don't want:)

PS
- apogee duet is a brilliant recommendation for a starter interface, its less than €500 quid and will straight away be very close to pro quality. it might be a bit more expensive than a 200-300 quid m-audio yoke, but if the person wants a genuine response its definitely one product you could say "this might be a bit more expensive but it will do you a lot longer than any of that other stuff". And there was no added on "...which my shop sells if your interested".
- the in the box vs. out of the box debate is a massive area of contention throughout the industry as far as i know. using someones opinion on it as a criticism of them is daft. you could get some of the best engineers/mastering engineers/design engineers/programmers etc. and theyd all disagree on it. you can't call someones opinion on it "misleading" if it is there own opinion, which is a caveat you have to take into account when getting advice from anyone! start a thread on it if you want to stir up debate about it.

i think everyone should chill out:)

PaulBrewer

I think I have!

frobisher

PaulBrewer wrote: »

I think I have!

PaulBrewer

frobisher wrote: »

Well, until the next time............

dav nagle

Hi guys,

I for one have met some very interesting people through Paul's shin digs and in fairness never felt any pressure from him. Their are two types of dealers, one who sells less expensive gear that may improve your productions and someone who deals the expensive stuff that in general sounds sweet. Paul does say he is a PRO audio dealer not a BUDGET. There are of course times where I spend my money on less expensive product and it does help my recordings but please remember its not drugs he is pushing, its great equipment.

Buying great gear will save you money in the long time but for me and many on this forum it will be a while before we can buy the sweet stuff. However, when the time comes it will be Paul who I hand the cash to, for if I buy from well known web sites I could possibly get swindled and have no return policy. When we all make that glorious step to Pro gear we will need the likes of Paul to explain how to set it up and best use it. I personally know know-one else in the business who gives as much TIME AND FREE advice as Paul. Some of his advice, I don't want to hear because I cannot afford what he is going to say next but thats not his problem. The manufacture decide how much PRO gear costs not Paul.


P.S I have the biggest willie right!!

eoin5

I voted yes. I would like this board moderated a bit better, not a major overhaul but there are a few spammish threads hanging about this weather. I would favour people use their sigs as a way of promoting themselves instead of tiresome threads that dont add much to the board. Nothing major but one in particular is Sonic Safari, I've dealt with Paul once before and hes a good genuine guy but I dont think threads like my adventures in pro-audio land are particularly useful to this board. Something like that is never going to be a useful discussion here. Maybe putting a link in the sig and change it when something new pops up would save us the spam?

PaulBrewer

eoin5 wrote: »

I voted yes. I would like this board moderated a bit better, not a major overhaul but there are a few spammish threads hanging about this weather. I would favour people use their sigs as a way of promoting themselves instead of tiresome threads that dont add much to the board. Nothing major but one in particular is Sonic Safari, I've dealt with Paul once before and hes a good genuine guy but I dont think threads like my adventures in pro-audio land are particularly useful to this board. Something like that is never going to be a useful discussion here. Maybe putting a link in the sig and change it when something new pops up would save us the spam?

Point taken, just thought the post might be of interest - apparently not.

How do I know you Eoin?

eoin5

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Point taken, just thought the post might be of interest - apparently not.

How do I know you Eoin?

I bought an se2200 off you a while back, great vocal and acoustic mic for the price.

PaulBrewer

eoin5 wrote: »

I bought an se2200 off you a while back, great vocal and acoustic mic for the price.

Cool!

Seziertisch

As someone who has spent a hell of a lot of time tweaking recordings using the gear I have available and trying to achieve the sound I want to hear, learning through trial and error i.e. taking the long way, and from info garnered from various magazines I can say having some pro's or part time pro's on the board is a huge asset.

I did an introductory course to electronic music production (not in Ireland) a few years ago. The course was a bit of a mixed bag. But we did have some contact to working professionals as well as in-house teachers, and I can say that the former category were infinitely more knowledgeable and better informed than most of the in-house guys (a lot of whom would fall into the category of rich kids who did courses that cost 8 or 9 grand a year). So yeah, I don't care if you're not Brian Eno or Tony Visconti, if you know more than I do, and so long as they don't start shoving advertising down my throat or start working an agenda of blatantly promoting a product that you sell/use over another to the point of this being a falsehood, then I want to hear from you.

Just because they might have a certain agenda i.e as studio operators/dealers shouldn't make them unwelcome. Having someone with first hand experience of certain pieces of gear is a positive thing. As opposed to hearing I read in x or saw in y the following.

I mean nobody complains about ads in Sound on Sound or Tape Op or wherever, so gently stating that you offer particular services on Boards shouldn't be a big issue. Just because someone comes from a certain background shouldn't compromise the validity of what they have to say. I would imagine a fair share of us have leafed through pages of ads in publications such as Sound on Sound to get to a review of a certain product which we may be interested in buying, interested in what the review has to say, and never once stopping to think this review might be compromised by commercial interests. Well the reality is that if Sound on Sound started giving overwhelmingly positive reviews to everything or only to products from (certain) advertisers then, it would lose a lot of its readership. The same is true here; if someone wants to make a complaint about the commercialisation of the board, then they need to provide proof of these individuals with vested interests blatantly misleading or misinforming.