Ex-Army private 'absolutely terrified' during mortar strike

uptherebels

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/exarmy-private-absolutely-terrified-during-mortar-strike-1301201.html

arybvtcw0eolkf

uptherebels wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/exarmy-private-absolutely-terrified-during-mortar-strike-1301201.html

From the site;


A former Army private was "absolutely terrified'' when his post in Lebanon came under mortar attack during an incident in which another young soldier was killed nine years ago.


David Concannon (28) said his lip was cut when he was hit with shrapnel which had come through the walls of the billets where soldiers were sleeping during the attack of May 31, 1999.

When he emerged from his billet to get to a bunker, he saw Private David Kedian, who was killed in the incident, lying covered in blood on the ground, he told the High Court yesterday

Mr Concannon and a colleague who was also injured in the incident, Pte Darren Clarke (28), claim they suffered post-traumatic stress disorder due to the incident and are suing for the Irish Army for damages.

They allege negligence by the Army in failing to ensure a safe place of work for them and that their billets were unsafe and unsuitable for use by peace-keeping forces.

It is also alleged that, had the Defence Forces responded more speedily in getting the soldiers from their billets to bunkers as soon as the mortar firing began, Pte Kedian may not have died and others may not have sustained injuries.

The Minister for Defence and State have denied their claims.

Mr Concannon, who left the army months later, said he felt unable to speak about the incident afterwards to his superior officers as he believed other soldiers would speak about him behind his back.

He also believed voicing his fears would not be good for his career and felt lonely and depressed.

The case continues.


Poor guy, and I do feel for him.

But, the defence forces had councilling services in place when that happened.

On his repat medical he should have been debriefed and asked was anything bothering him, and made aware of the Defence Forces councilling services. I'd be very surprised if he didn't, he'd also have known about the anonymity of seeing his BPSSO.

As for getting lads from their billets, well without sounding like an ass about it, but these are grown men, soldiers, you can't take them by the hands and lead them to the bunkers.

I've been in situations were lads refused point black to leave their beds when in 'ground hog' (sheltering in the bunkers), nothing you can do about it except charge them for their actions.

As for the billets being unsafe - damn right. They were letal.

Guys, Billy Kedian was killed in Bra-sh*te. His billet was a portacabin, at best protected by T-walls and Gabions. But he was killed running from his billet to the bunker.

Like I said, I genuinely feel for the lad but I think it would be hard to prove that the Defence Froces are negligent in this incidence.

***Oh, what was it someone said in another thread about the Irish soldiers doing what they're best at "drinking and getting a sun tan" or words to that effect***

Lebanon was a very dangerous place, let us not forget that. Just because it was a peace keeping force only mean's that the forces mandate as laid down by UN resolutions 425 & 426 was weak, not the mission!.

uptherebels

Mairt wrote: »

I've been in situations were lads refused point black to leave their beds when in 'ground hog' (sheltering in the bunkers), nothing you can do about it except charge them for their actions.

They wouldnt get out of bed when their being shelled/mortared?
and whats a BPSSO?

arybvtcw0eolkf

uptherebels wrote: »

They wouldnt get out of bed when their being shelled/mortared?

Yup, exactly.. It used to happen alot, and mostly way into the trip when lads would be used to shelling in the area and would drop their guard or become complicent. At the start of a trip lads are running for cover for everything or the guard is calling 'ground hog' for silly things.

So after awhile you just don't bother until the shelling creeps closer. Its silly, but it happens.

uptherebels wrote: »

and whats a BPSSO?

Barrack Personnel Support Services Office - They provide a range of services in every base, both at home and abroad - offereing services from councilling, marriage guidence, financial advice etc..

Manic Moran

We're the same. You can tell the new arrivals at a US base in Iraq as they're the people running to the bunkers whenever a round lands anywhere on the base.

After a while you realise that the attacks are so short that by the time you get to a bunker, it's over. They've learned that if they drop any more than four or five mortar rounds, they won't get out before counter-battery nails them.

NTM

helimachoptor

Ok I'm not in the army, but he's taking the government to court for getting injured on a peacekeeping mission??

He's a soldier FFS it's not exactly a safe job!

The judge should tell him to cop on.

uptherebels

helimachoptor wrote: »

Ok I'm not in the army, but he's taking the government to court for getting injured on a peacekeeping mission??

He's a soldier FFS it's not exactly a safe job!

The judge should tell him to cop on.

It's not just the fact that he was injured,hes claiming that the government didnt provide adequate reinforcements to his billet which would have stopped him from being injured

helimachoptor

Sure how many lawsuits are the americans going to have with Iraq... "your honour the DOD didnt provide me with an invincible vehicle that I could do my soldiering in"

TBH it's very sad. If you sign up to be a soldier accept the risks of what might happen.

c-90

they should have given him a hard hat and highvis vest so they dindt run into each other:rolleyes:

arybvtcw0eolkf

Lads unless you've served don't slag the guy off.

A lot of guys suffered P.T.S.D. from service in Lebanon, and in alot of ways we escape far many more deaths just by the grace of god.

First time I was in Lebanon there wasn't enough flak jackets and helmets to go around. I had an old WWII tin helmet, and that wasn't so long ago!.

No matter what your job, your employer has a duty of care to you. This guy just has to prove that the Irish Defence Forces failed in looking after his welfare.

As regards the billets and protection, I'm not sure thats the Defence Forces concern more so than the United Nations!.

And remember something lads, he claims to have ran out to see one of his buddies blown to bits, give him some credit please.

Something else to consider lads, after one particular trip I had to get councilling as I was found to be suffering P.T.S.D. but although I knew about the services available to me I didn't seek help because I was afraid of being labled like you guys have labelled this chap.

It was other stress related matter's that led my doctor to dig deeper and dig up this sh*t.

Only difference with me (and other lads) is that I don't believe that anyone was negligent in protecting me.

So lads, cut him a bit of slack please.

return guide

Mairt wrote: »

Lads unless you've served don't slag the guy off.

A lot of guys suffered P.T.S.D. from service in Lebanon, and in alot of ways we escape far many more deaths just by the grace of god.

First time I was in Lebanon there wasn't enough flak jackets and helmets to go around. I had an old WWII tin helmet, and that wasn't so long ago!.

No matter what your job, your employer has a duty of care to you. This guy just has to prove that the Irish Defence Forces failed in looking after his welfare.

As regards the billets and protection, I'm not sure thats the Defence Forces concern more so than the United Nations!.

And remember something lads, he claims to have ran out to see one of his buddies blown to bits, give him some credit please.

Something else to consider lads, after one particular trip I had to get councilling as I was found to be suffering P.T.S.D. but although I knew about the services available to me I didn't seek help because I was afraid of being labled like you guys have labelled this chap.

It was other stress related matter's that led my doctor to dig deeper and dig up this sh*t.

Only difference with me (and other lads) is that I don't believe that anyone was negligent in protecting me.

So lads, cut him a bit of slack please.

Excellent post ,well put.


I hope that this guy is genuine because the DF morale suffered from the hearing cases.

cp251

While I can understand that a soldier would suffer from PTSD after being involved in something like that. It does seem to be a common reaction. The courtcase itself seems absurd though. Either it was opportunism on his part or he was seriously ill advised.

After the army deafness claims managed to reinforce the publics negative opinion of the army. We now have an ex soldier

alleging negligence by the Army in failing to ensure a safe place of work for them and that their billets were unsafe and unsuitable for use by peace-keeping forces.

The public will draw the obvious conclusion that going to a war zone is dangerous and that he volunteered knowing that it was dangerous. No one who joins the army can have any illusions about the possibility of violent death on the battlefield.

I honestly don't think he's helping himself by doing this and he certainly is not going to improve the army's image in the public mind.

People will make the comparsion between what's going on in Afghanistan and Iraq right now. It could make the army a laughing stock again.:mad:

arybvtcw0eolkf

Just to remind you guys that an ex-Cpl from 2fld Engr Coy succesfully sued the Defence Forces for P.T.S.D. and was awarded £280,000 PUNTS!!!, that was back in or around 1990.

cp251

Mairt wrote: »

Just to remind you guys that an ex-Cpl from 2fld Engr Coy succesfully sued the Defence Forces for P.T.S.D. and was awarded £280,000 PUNTS!!!, that was back in or around 1990.

Indeed, the precedent. But was his PTSD disabling in some form or other?

Mrmotivator007

this story made laugh,this is a joke right,he was away on active duty in an area were their is fighting,and he wants to sue beacause someboady attacked him,this is part of the job

its stories like this that give the impresion that the Irish army is a joke,and how they cant be taken seriously,(only the other nigth wernt podge and rodge taking the piss out of them,sher arnt those the lads who play about in the curragh and come out when the bin men are on strike)

arybvtcw0eolkf

Mrmotivator007 wrote: »

this story made laugh,this is a joke right,he was away on active duty in an area were their is fighting,and he wants to sue beacause someboady attacked him,this is part of the job

its stories like this that give the impresion that the Irish army is a joke,and how they cant be taken seriously,(only the other nigth wernt podge and rodge taking the piss out of them,sher arnt those the lads who play about in the curragh and come out when the bin men are on strike)

You've been to Lebanon?

Mrmotivator007

no but im hopefully going to be going away with the brits to iraq and afghan but acoording to the article he is suing them because they didnt provide a safe area for them,could you imagine this in any other army!

HES BASICALLY SAYING HE WANTS TO SUE BECAUSE HE CAME UNDER FIRE :rolleyes:

arybvtcw0eolkf

Mrmotivator007 wrote: »

no :

Mrmotivator007 wrote: »

but im hopefully going to be going away with the brits to iraq and afghan

You've no idea what your talking about so.

The rest of your discussion is for the courts to decide upon, so I'll leave you to it.

Mrmotivator007 wrote: »

no but im hopefully going to be going away with the brits to iraq and afghan :

According to your other posts here you have been been wondering about the Irish Defence forces, never mind the Brits & war laddie - get some service under your belt first..

(This guy has got to be having a laugh)

rednik

I served in Lebanon as well as other missions abroad and I think its a joke. Anybody who goes overseas knows the risks involved,ffs act like a soldier. What will be next suing for turbulence on the flight on the way to the AO.

Connrang

Guys,
I was in Lebanon at the time of this incident. Had there been T Wall's in front of the billets they would have had some safety. A very decent guy will killed that day after he left the safety of his post to warn the lad's of the shelling, he was killed by a 81mm mortar shell that landed in front of him as he was returning to his post, may he rest in peace.
Two others were wounded that day, one very seriously, only for the meatball surgery by the Polish medics that took place on the Medevac chopper there would have been two dead. The second guy (Bones Clarke) was blown across the room and his locker was turned into shrapnel by the force of the blast which was where he received the shrapnel woulds, was this was preventable had their been T Wall's ?
The question is whether it's the Irish or UN's responsibility ?, well since they were serving under Irish command its plain where the responsibility lies, T Wall's were needed, a fact that is acknowledged. In 1993 that same post received several direct hits from 155 shells and made the place look like Mon's in 1914. If my memory serve's me well there were one or two DSM's awarded for the 1993 incident.
Billy Kedian who was killed that day was a model soldier, one who had a bright future in the military and respected by all who had contact with him, his reward for saving lives, a Military Star, no bravery award.
If you ever met a guy who suffered PTSD then you'll know the money is the thin edge of the wedge, they would much prefer their health.
I've done my bit there, 5 tours over twenty odd years and have sheltered many many times, not a nice experience and little else you can do but wait for it to stop. We were not very well equipped to do anything else but watch, listen and report.
Let's await the outcome of the court case, a jury will decide....

PS
The day of the Medal Parade that year the IDF flew a jet low over the ceremony......I was later told by an Israeli it was to commemorate Billy, even the IDF said it was a waste of a good life, the shelling was the action of the Militia not the IDF.....

arybvtcw0eolkf

Connrang wrote: »

Guys,
I was in Lebanon at the time of this incident. Had there been T Wall's in front of the billets they would have had some safety. A very decent guy will killed that day after he left the safety of his post to warn the lad's of the shelling, he was killed by a 81mm mortar shell that landed in front of him as he was returning to his post, may he rest in peace.
Two others were wounded that day, one very seriously, only for the meatball surgery by the Polish medics that took place on the Medevac chopper there would have been two dead. The second guy (Bones Clarke) was blown across the room and his locker was turned into shrapnel by the force of the blast which was where he received the shrapnel woulds, was this was preventable had their been T Wall's ?
The question is whether it's the Irish or UN's responsibility ?, well since they were serving under Irish command its plain where the responsibility lies, T Wall's were needed, a fact that is acknowledged. In 1993 that same post received several direct hits from 155 shells and made the place look like Mon's in 1914. If my memory serve's me well there were one or two DSM's awarded for the 1993 incident.
Billy Kedian who was killed that day was a model soldier, one who had a bright future in the military and respected by all who had contact with him, his reward for saving lives, a Military Star, no bravery award.
If you ever met a guy who suffered PTSD then you'll know the money is the thin edge of the wedge, they would much prefer their health.
I've done my bit there, 5 tours over twenty odd years and have sheltered many many times, not a nice experience and little else you can do but wait for it to stop. We were not very well equipped to do anything else but watch, listen and report.
Let's await the outcome of the court case, a jury will decide....

PS
The day of the Medal Parade that year the IDF flew a jet low over the ceremony......I was later told by an Israeli it was to commemorate Billy, even the IDF said it was a waste of a good life, the shelling was the action of the Militia not the IDF.....

Good post, well balanced.

As for T-Walls same thing happened with us in the (I think) 65th. We looked for T-walls for be put in place, nothing happened until the billet was hit by a solid fired from Rashaf (Coukoo's nest).

Thankfully it was a solid, but it still seriously injured two lads - guess what, the T-Walls were put in place when a new port-a-cabin was installed.

Like I said earlier, its only by the grace of god that more lads weren't killed.

Do I agree on him suing?.. I personally couldn't give a rat's ass if he does or not, and furthermore if he does get a few bob he still has to suffer his P.T.S.D. (I'd rather my health).

To the lads who haven't served, show some respect ffs.

AckwelFoley

I dont see the news here?

Id probable sh1t in my kacks if i was in the same situation. Hes Human.
Some ppl watch too many films.


Whats next for news? "Fisherman was terrified when shark bit his pecker off "

Connrang

Mairt,
Sat a good few nights in front of that new billet with those lovely new T Walls.
Sad thing is a good soldier was forgotten, paid the ultimate price and those who knew him are better people for having met him.

So let's await the verdict...unless the DOD do the sneaky one and tie it up without admitting anything, just throw money at it.... as per normal. While the DOD are the one's in court where are those lovely gentlemen who failed their duty to their men....promoted....remind me, is'nt one of them leading the Chad mission as Lt Gen......

Mrmotivator007

Mairt wrote: »

You've no idea what your talking about so.

The rest of your discussion is for the courts to decide upon, so I'll leave you to it.




According to your other posts here you have been been wondering about the Irish Defence forces, never mind the Brits & war laddie - get some service under your belt first..

(This guy has got to be having a laugh)

easy their no need to take the piss,calm down thier;)just cause i havnt been to the lebanon doesnt mean i can not have an oppinion!is it?from what ive heard in the papers this is basically what thier saying"hes sueing the department of defence because they didnt provide them with a safe place"am i wrong?

arybvtcw0eolkf

Mrmotivator007 wrote: »

easy their no need to take the piss,calm down thier;)just cause i havnt been to the lebanon doesnt mean i can not have an oppinion!is it?from what ive heard in the papers this is basically what thier saying"hes sueing the department of defence because they didnt provide them with a safe place"am i wrong?

You entitled to your opinion, I just don't value it.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Connrang wrote: »

Mairt,
Sat a good few nights in front of that new billet with those lovely new T Walls.
Sad thing is a good soldier was forgotten, paid the ultimate price and those who knew him are better people for having met him.

Aye, I knew Bra-sh*t well.

I was out there when the lads were killed up at 6-9B and the story that came out from that was also far from the truth!.

We could go on, but my hands are tied here. However I'm sure you'll agree with me when I say that its only by the grace of god that more (lots more) weren't killed in Lebanon.

Mrmotivator007

im not saying it wasnt dangerous,but theese are the risks you take when you go to a war torn area,you wernt going as tourists were you?these things happen,they dont care if you were peacekeepers or trociare or the us army,you were their they didnt want you their,in know way can you justify suing the state,theese are part of the risks you take,you know the dangers before you go.what was he expecting a nice site seeing trip take a few photos and go home?

return guide

Mairt wrote: »

Aye, I knew Bra-sh*t well.

I was out there when the lads were killed up at 6-9B and the story that came out from that was also far from the truth!.

We could go on, but my hands are tied here. However I'm sure you'll agree with me when I say that its only by the grace of god that more (lots more) weren't killed in Lebanon.[/QUO

Can you enlighten those of us that dont know, although I think i have a good idea, without going into classified/legal specifics.

I think the Df went through in the Leb, what the BA are going through in Afghan as regards public perception.

When I was growing up I had a cousin who did a couple stints in the Leb, and from a family point of view he was on holiday for six months, this opion changed around '81 and pressure was put on him to "retire"

Manic Moran

I can't say I agree with the concept of sueing the government for this sort of thing. It could lead to extremely dodgy precedent. "Why did the Government send us to Chad in MOWAGs when MRAPs would have been much more survivable?" or "Why didn't they buy reactive armour for the APCs to protect against RPGs?"

I am unfamiliar with a T-Wall, but if it's what I think it is, is there no reason that a good, old-fashioned sandbag revetment wouldn't have done the same job? If so, why didn't someone on scene insist on one being built?

NTM

Fionn

this is probably a very emotive issue!! anytime someone loses their life anyone in the imediate group is gonna feel a huge loss!! thats the way it is for people in an operational situation!
whether the guy has a case or not I dunno

T walls are defensive ramparts (for want of a better word) like an inverted T made of concrete, last time i was there - Gabions were the current thing these were chain link cages which were put in position and then filled with rocks of which there were an abundace of! they were very good protective walls against all sorts of fire. the T walls were most effective against direct fire not so much good against a mortar round impacting behind one, really you'd need T walls to line both sides of a billet to have any protection.
I'd agree with the concept of the Bunker - it wasn't really used much at least as far as i saw!! The locals always robbed all the water and pack rations out of them lol.. lads used to use them for parties and stuff!!
I haven't a clue if you could have much of a claim coz the dff or whoever fired on your position.. :cool:

Fionn

funny i just before i read this thread had posted some UNIFIL pics on flickr!!

arybvtcw0eolkf

Manic Moran wrote: »

I can't say I agree with the concept of sueing the government for this sort of thing. It could lead to extremely dodgy precedent. "Why did the Government send us to Chad in MOWAGs when MRAPs would have been much more survivable?" or "Why didn't they buy reactive armour for the APCs to protect against RPGs?"

I am unfamiliar with a T-Wall, but if it's what I think it is, is there no reason that a good, old-fashioned sandbag revetment wouldn't have done the same job? If so, why didn't someone on scene insist on one being built?

NTM

I'm not saying its right or wrong, personally I wouldn't do it no matter what.

But one only has to read this thread and some of the replies in it, indeed one from a member who has recently retired on pension to understand how the lad felt in not reporting his P.T.S.D. for fear of ridicule.

Another thing I feel I should draw the threads attention to.

Some here have tried to compare our service in Lebanon to the British & American's in Iraq & Afghanistand.

There is no comparision.

UNIFIL was mandated to do a peacekeepers job by the invitation of all warring parties in Lebanon. Both the Israeli's and the Lebanese set down conditions on things like what arnaments we could bring, no cyphered radio systems, no airpower etc & we offered huge humanitarian assistance to ALL sides + all that = Good guys (if you like )


Britain and America brought war to Iraq and Afghanistan, they are on the offensive in both countries, bringing misery & destruction to people's lives = Bad guys!..

So there is not real comparision between us.

But back to the lad who is suing, a quick google search will dig up lots of British and American soldiers who are also suing their governments.

And besides all that, I'm sure the older lads here will remember the routine order's from year's ago, and remember all the officers suing for things like deafness & arthritis & looking for witnesses to their range practices and service in the Congo - these are the guys who set precendent in the army for suing, not 'the bods'.

You guys might think I'm pro-sue, I'm not. But I am pro-compassion and understanding because I know what the short comings of Lebanon were.

rednik

Personally I have no time for soldiers suing for ridiculous claims. I think your post is very well put Mairt and I too remember ROs with every retiring offr submitting disability claims but I don't think this makes it right for somebody to claim while on o/seas service ref an unsafe working enviroment. But behind every claim is a good solicitor!

arybvtcw0eolkf

rednik wrote: »

Personally I have no time for soldiers suing for ridiculous claims. I think your post is very well put Mairt and I too remember ROs with every retiring offr submitting disability claims but I don't think this makes it right for somebody to claim while on o/seas service ref an unsafe working enviroment. But behind every claim is a good solicitor!

Oh I'm not in disagreement with you, like I said. I wouldn't sue either, in fact I got a broken wrist whilst running into 'ground hog' (I was swanning on a roof & fell off it, lol).

Another thing, the Engineer who sued - pure bluffer & got a ton of money. However I'd still try to have some understanding for the this lad, I don't doubt he was traumatised by this one incident but he still has to prove negligence on behalf of the Defence Forces.

Another point, and this failed in court. But Pte Sean Courtney tried claiming in court that as a result of experiences with the 63rd (including shooting a hairy on the Ayta Zutt [my spelling might not be correct] checkpoint) that he suffered P.T.S.D. which led to him murdering that lady up on Mount Venus Rd, Rathfarnham.

Another lad from the 2nd Bn (same trip) had to be medically repatriated after witnessing, and lending medical assistance to two young Israeli soldiers killed by an IED up at the 'Black Hole' - he didn't sue.

As I said earlier, if this guy really does suffer from P.T.S.D. and its impinging on his quality of life, if he gets a few bob - fair play to him. But I'd rather have my health.

rednik

Its distinguishing the bluffers from the real victims. I saw enough fools trying it on as I'm sure you have. In one particular case a lad from my unit went for his hearing test and never pressed the button once. He was called in and told he was not allowed to sign back on. He took the hearing test again and came out H1.Its clowns like him who give the rest of us a bad name. I agree with you about the compassion but when on o/seas service you must expect the worst. However I could'nt believe the difference between the UN missions and the first NATO mission I served on.

Manic Moran

Well, here's a different question, then.

Is he sueing because he got PTSD and did not receive adequate mental medical attention from the State to deal with it, or is he sueing because the Army didn't provide physical protective equipment at the time?

I'm paying more attention to the latter, and believe it should not be a sueable offense. However, if PTSD was a recognised problem at the time (and I believe it was), and the State did not provide a reasonable amount of care for this issue, then yes, I could see an argument for taking the State to court.

NTM

arybvtcw0eolkf

Manic Moran wrote: »

Well, here's a different question, then.

Is he sueing because he got PTSD and did not receive adequate mental medical attention from the State to deal with it, or is he sueing because the Army didn't provide physical protective equipment at the time?

I'm paying more attention to the latter, and believe it should not be a sueable offense. However, if PTSD was a recognised problem at the time (and I believe it was), and the State did not provide a reasonable amount of care for this issue, then yes, I could see an argument for taking the State to court.

NTM

I think I covered those questions in reply #2.

triskell

I'm shocked at the ignorance and disrespect shown by some the comments here, but not very surprised The attitude that you went to the Leb for a 6 month Paid holiday is still around, which is what the general irish population thinks about the PDF in the Lebanon, very little on the news about it unless there was a fatality
I doubt any solidier who has been in the leb came home mentally uneffected,
1. To be in a bunker for 2 or 3 days and wonder is this going to be your end,
2.To go out on a mine sweep to see the bits, foot, arms, bits of hair intestines scattered across the the road.
3. To see someone you worked with a few days earlier with their chest ripped apart by a heavy machine gun.

all these things have a tendency to stay in your head
"Oh but your a solidier deal with it, thats your job" Bollocks, your a human wearing a green/kaki suit. Its very easy to watch Ross kemp from the comfort and safety of your armchair and think thats a doddle
Most lads did a trip or two and never siad a word, but they suffered their wives and families suffered, Go and get so drunk so to get those images out your head. No help in the early days, and when there was it was frowned upon, unofficially it would effect your promotion chances or maybe you would not be considered suitable for other overseas trips. not to mention the peer issue
This guy has my sympathy and respect, but he's the tip of the iceberg.
As another poster siad a jury will decide
To all those posters who were critical of this Guy, go and see some service in a war zone and then you have the right to comment

Irish_Army01

triskell wrote: »

I'm shocked at the ignorance and disrespect shown by some the comments here, but not very surprised The attitude that you went to the Leb for a 6 month Paid holiday is still around, which is what the general irish population thinks about the PDF in the Lebanon, very little on the news about it unless there was a fatality
I doubt any solidier who has been in the leb came home mentally uneffected,
1. To be in a bunker for 2 or 3 days and wonder is this going to be your end,
2.To go out on a mine sweep to see the bits, foot, arms, bits of hair intestines scattered across the the road.
3. To see someone you worked with a few days earlier with their chest ripped apart by a heavy machine gun.

all these things have a tendency to stay in your head
"Oh but your a solidier deal with it, thats your job" Bollocks, your a human wearing a green/kaki suit. Its very easy to watch Ross kemp from the comfort and safety of your armchair and think thats a doddle
Most lads did a trip or two and never siad a word, but they suffered their wives and families suffered, Go and get so drunk so to get those images out your head. No help in the early days, and when there was it was frowned upon, unofficially it would effect your promotion chances or maybe you would not be considered suitable for other overseas trips. not to mention the peer issue
This guy has my sympathy and respect, but he's the tip of the iceberg.
As another poster siad a jury will decide
To all those posters who were critical of this Guy, go and see some service in a war zone and then you have the right to comment

Very well said..

dahamster

Irish_Army01 wrote: »

Very well said..

i concur on that!(3 trips some better than others , but all had their ****ty moments)

Hard Larry

Hey all long time no argue

Just browsing this forum and i saw this post thought I'd throw in my two cents on the incident.

I was on duty the morning of this incident in the Black Hole heard the lot over the radio. Nasty stuff listening to a Medivac report for one of your own lads...and no I was never PTSD debriefed by the DF and no I don't wake up with nightmares or cold sweats thinking about the incident.

A lot of people are slatting this guy for suing the DF and saying "youre a soldier do your job and STFU!" well the guy did do his job. Its not like he was on the first plane out of there after this happened AFAIK he stayed in that post until his platoon rotated to a new post. He carried on doing his duty as any good soldier would. Hindsight and the experience of age are probably motivating this guy to do what hes doing realising that what happened that day could have been averted.

Sure i've slept through my share of GroundHogs and even been drunk for a couple

But the Defence Forces and DoD can be held accountable here and its easy to point the finger at the UN too...but plenty of Taoiseachs, Ministers and Generals visited them posts in the past and they were all molly-coddled into believeing that everything was rosey in the garden in Sunny South Lebanon. Its a fairly easy job to reinforce a post with a few T-Walls but it was never done as IMO the attitude the DF has is "meh, someone else will do it, it'll be grand for now sure the CO gave us the thumbs up.'

Just another point to bring up which might be hard for some of you who don't really know the area of South Lebanon or how things worked but... The Irish post was hit by a DFF 81mm Mortar, now those of you that are familiar with the Leb will know that every post and town has an AMR (grid reference) and that the 81mm Mortar is a fairly acurate weapon as long as you have the right charges and elevation set on the weapon. So therefore the guy who fired the Mortar must have known exactly where he was firing at the time. So was it on purpose?

The hairys were'nt firing that close to the UN post and all towns and posts were df'd by the Israelis/DFF. Makes ya wonder.

And for anyone who says maybe the guy firing the mortar was inexperienced...well to be honest they got a lot of practice firing those weapons before that incident nearly twice a week if my memory serves well.

Just thought I'd throw that in there hope it gives some people a different perspective on the incident

RIP Billy Kedian.

Dirty Knuckles

Its reported in this mornings papers that the chap has dropped his claim.

cp251

Interesting but then I read this:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/harassment-by-civilians-led-border-troops-to-suffer-stress-1308890.html

Oh dear.

I can claim experience on this one as I did a few weeks in various barracks along the border. I was called a free state barsteward a few times. Monaghan town could be a little scary at one time. But.............

On the other hand, would I qualify for the medal? Guard duty could be scary, some nights you could hear shooting and explosions on the Northern side.

Oilrig

My experiences echo the article cp251 has quoted. I was "in" during the Gleeson Commision etc, some of the stats that emerged were horrible, guys doing 48 on and 12 off in extreme cases were recorded. I personally lay in a wet ditch for what seemed like a day and a half during Peter Robinson's District Court appearance in Ballybay. Wouldn't happen now...

As for Lebanon. Quite simple, if you haven't been there or similar then you're not qualified to offer a definitive view. An opinion yes but unless you have actually experienced it, sorry, I don't care how many books you've read or films you've watched you just won't understand.

PTSD was unheard of when I was serving, I buggered off for six months and my folks never got so much as a phone call while I was away.