Introduction of Speed Cameras

Niall1234

Ireland to me can be a strange strange country at times.

We complain about the government constantly yet vote them in time and time again.

The issue of speed cameras is no different.

On one hand, we are appauled by the deaths on our roads. The Irish media has a lot to do with this, exagerating statistics and not mentioning figures which show reducing deaths yada yada.

Anyways, on the other hand, most people I talk to hate speed traps etc.

So it raises the point, if so many people are against speed cameras (I'd say the majority are) why is the Irish population just letting the Government install speed cameras.

I have a lot of problems with speed cameras.

1. They cost an awful lot.
2. They are placed on Motorways where deaths simply do not happen.
3. They only catch speeders. Do nothing for dangerous driving.
4. Deaths went up in the UK after their introduction.
5. Instead more Gardai could be hired to clamp down on dangerous driving.

javaboy

Niall1234 wrote: »

We complain about the government constantly yet vote them in time and time again.

It doesn't matter who you vote for, the government always get in

DonJose

I'd like to see surveillance cameras placed at traffic lights and roundabouts to catch people breaking red lights, people using mobiles and people not indicating at roundabouts.

Niall1234

DonJose wrote: »

I'd like to see surveillance cameras placed at traffic lights and roundabouts to catch people breaking red lights, people using mobiles and people not indicating at roundabouts.

Saw a person going straight through a red light a few nights ago. They were stopped in front of me. I came up to the back of them. They just took off straight through the junction with the light red. Absolutely crazy.

conneem-TT

I'd like to see surveillance cameras placed at traffic lights and roundabouts to catch people breaking red lights, people using mobiles and people not indicating at roundabouts.

I agree, it's not speed but a lack of driver awareness combined with alot of impatience that I see when I notice bad driving on the roads.

Steve

I think we should do as they ask

Everyone SLOW DOWN, stay within the speed limit!

tell your friends, tell your family, tell strangers: SLOW DOWN!

if enough of us do it then they won't generate enough fines and go bust - end of problem!

The gov are expecting to generate €70m a year from this scam - that's after the operator gets their cut. :mad::mad:

Tropheus

It all depends on where they put them. If they put them in the same places where they put mobile speed traps, then I definitely don't agree. That's just a gimmick to fill the government coffers.

90% of speed traps I have seen are on wide open roads, usually in the dry and some with an inappropriately low speed limit. It's like shooting fish in a barrell.

If they put them in real accident black spots on back roads, I'll support them, but I doubt that will happen. It will be motorsways and dual carriage ways where the money is.

D_murph

ksimpson wrote: »

It all depends on where they put them. If they put them in the same places where they put mobile speed traps, then I definitely don't agree. That's just a gimmick to fill the government coffers.

90% of speed traps I have seen are on wide open roads, usually in the dry and some with an inappropriately low speed limit. It's like shooting fish in a barrell.

glad to see that you have sense . these speed scameras are just going to be another method to squeeze more money out of the irish motorist.

there will claims that they will be put on the dangerous places where accidents happen but in reality you can look forward to a load of motorway photography :rolleyes:

Niall1234

My view is that the gov is doing this for three reasons.

1. They want to be seen doing something about road safety, even if speed cameras aren't going to do jack ****.
2. To make money. If this wasn't true, they would drop fines and have only penalty points for speeding.
3. To shut Gay Byrne up.

briano1984

dont see the speed cameras doing anything to helping dangerous drivings. the stupid thing bout speed cameras is that they have a sign signalling there's one 20 feet ahead. everyone comes to know where the cameras are, slow down and then go back to speeding. its all bout getting more money and catching ppl who dont realise.

Niall1234

briano1984 wrote: »

dont see the speed cameras doing anything to helping dangerous drivings. the stupid thing bout speed cameras is that they have a sign signalling there's one 20 feet ahead. everyone comes to know where the cameras are, slow down and then go back to speeding. its all bout getting more money and catching ppl who dont realise.

Is it written in the law that there must be signs up to indicate a speed camera ahead ?

briano1984

i have no idea but any time theres a speed camera anywhere its sign posted previously. one on m50 after dundrum and then theres another on the n4 near lucan. maybe i could have it wrong but im pretty sure they're all signposted.

Steve

Niall1234 wrote: »

Is it written in the law that there must be signs up to indicate a speed camera ahead ?

No - their original plan was to have it overt for 6 months, after that they'd be hidin in the hedges.

Seth Brundle

stevec wrote: »

The gov are expecting to generate €70m a year from this scam - that's after the operator gets their cut. :mad::mad:

WHich is exactly where I have a problem with the proposed system. What is this figure based upon? Its acknowledging failure before it starts!

Niall1234 wrote: »

Is it written in the law that there must be signs up to indicate a speed camera ahead ?

Is it actually written into law or is that just a myth?
ANyhow, I presume its for fixed cameras only. Mobile checks don't need signposting.

WHITE_P

If they want to stop speeding on motorway's / dual carriageways, they should put up average speed camera's and let people know they are there and how they work, (ie measure your average speed over a given distance).

Then it would be only the really stupid, or non observant drivers who get caught, these are usually the same drivers that do all the other dangerous sh!t on our roads that really p!sses other motorists off.

We all know the one's, on the mobile while tailgating, won't move back into the left lane when its clear, that sort of thing.

This new proposal is just stealth taxation and window dressing.

Put the money into driver education, and improved roads.

Steve

WHITE_P wrote: »

We all know the one's, on the mobile while tailgating, won't move back into the left lane when its clear, that sort of thing.

Yes we all know them - theyre the ones that sit in the outside lane at 10kmh under the speed limit and frustrate everyone else.

How are the cameras going to stop this?

javaboy

stevec wrote: »

Yes we all know them - theyre the ones that sit in the outside lane at 10kmh under the speed limit and frustrate everyone else.

How are the cameras going to stop this?

They're not obviously but as everybody's favourite supermarket/petrol station/mortgage provider/car insurer says:

Cyrus

Niall1234 wrote: »

Ireland to me can be a strange strange country at times.

We complain about the government constantly yet vote them in time and time again.

The issue of speed cameras is no different.

On one hand, we are appauled by the deaths on our roads. The Irish media has a lot to do with this, exagerating statistics and not mentioning figures which show reducing deaths yada yada.

Anyways, on the other hand, most people I talk to hate speed traps etc.

So it raises the point, if so many people are against speed cameras (I'd say the majority are) why is the Irish population just letting the Government install speed cameras.

I have a lot of problems with speed cameras.

1. They cost an awful lot.
2. They are placed on Motorways where deaths simply do not happen.
3. They only catch speeders. Do nothing for dangerous driving.
4. Deaths went up in the UK after their introduction.
5. Instead more Gardai could be hired to clamp down on dangerous driving.

Lads to be fair the amount of misinformation on this forum regarding the camera project is staggering.

A private co will be selected from those that tendered, they will be paid an hourly rate based on hours spend monitoring speeds, payment will have nothing to do with no of prosecutable images. There are 600 or so accident black spots identified and thats where the efforts will be concentrated.

Numerous studies have shown that the introduction of mobile cameras reduces speed and every 5km/h reduction in overall speed in an area reduces raod accident trauma by a multiple.

im not saying im for them but everyone is assuming there will be cameras all over motorways and the operator will be paid based on the no of people caught, thats just wrong

WHITE_P

stevec wrote: »

Yes we all know them - theyre the ones that sit in the outside lane at 10kmh under the speed limit and frustrate everyone else.

How are the cameras going to stop this?

Camera's won't stop this and you are right about them fustrating everyone else.

However if the camera's are there to watch the speeder's, then maybe if the Traffic Cops, were given a mandate to tackle the other problems, we might see less of this stupid behaviour.

Before anyone else say's it, I know this sounds like a load of Bullsh!t. I'm not in favour of my taxes being p!ssed away on these camera's so I can have more of my hard earned cash extorted from me, by a private company for the state.

Speed is just an easy target for the politicians, and its something they can be seen to take action against, even if that action amounts to nothing and has zero affect on the death toll on our roads. Better to be seen to do something than nothing at all, in their minds.

Steve

WHITE_P wrote: »

However if the camera's are there to watch the speeder's, then maybe if the Traffic Cops, were given a mandate to tackle the other problems, we might see less of this stupid behaviour.

I agree however, as it's not illegal to be stupid, what can the cops do?

I would love to see more traffic corps units out there with the task of educating drivers who are just plain dumb and are oblivious to the effects their actions have on other road users.

WHITE_P wrote: »

Before anyone else say's it, I know this sounds like a load of Bullsh!t. I'm not in favour of my taxes being p!ssed away on these camera's so I can have more of my hard earned cash extorted from me, by a private company for the state.

It won't actually cost the taxpayer anything unless the system actually works and stops people speeding.
The gov. have already admitted that it won't work by saying they expect a €70m profit after they pay the €25m running cost to the operator.

Even if they pledged to ring-fence the revenue back into providing better policing it would be a consolation. This has never been mentioned.
The money they make will go towards another pay rise for the bertie bunch and don't forget mary harney who needs the government jet to go to the superbowl every year.

WHITE_P

stevec wrote: »

I agree however, as it's not illegal to be stupid, what can the cops do?

I would love to see more traffic corps units out there with the task of educating drivers who are just plain dumb and are oblivious to the effects their actions have on other road users.



It won't actually cost the taxpayer anything unless the system actually works and stops people speeding.
The gov. have already admitted that it won't work by saying they expect a €70m profit after they pay the €25m running cost to the operator.

Even if they pledged to ring-fence the revenue back into providing better policing it would be a consolation. This has never been mentioned.
The money they make will go towards another pay rise for the bertie bunch and don't forget mary harney who needs the government jet to go to the superbowl every year.

I know what you mean. what a wonderful country we live in.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

DonJose wrote: »

I'd like to see surveillance cameras placed at traffic lights and roundabouts to catch people breaking red lights, people using mobiles and people not indicating at roundabouts.

But not catch people speeding???

ghouse

Apollo Hollow Waterworks wrote: »

But not catch people speeding???

I think the general idea is that there are much worse, and more serious driving offences than speeding. Most of which can be fixed by adequate training. Speeding has never been a large factor in the number of accidents, but I agree that it can increase the severity of accidents.

But you and I both know that these cameras will not be placed in locations where they can save lives. They will be posted on large motorways, dual carriageways and busy city roads where feck all accidents happen, not to change behaviour. Not to change thinking patterns.

Simply, to generate revenue and make Bertie look good with a sudden increase in detections.

And I for one, think it's disgusting.

D_murph

ghouse wrote: »

I think the general idea is that there are much worse, and more serious driving offences than speeding. Most of which can be fixed by adequate training. Speeding has never been a large factor in the number of accidents, but I agree that it can increase the severity of accidents.

But you and I both know that these cameras will not be placed in locations where they can save lives. They will be posted on large motorways, dual carriageways and busy city roads where feck all accidents happen, not to change behaviour. Not to change thinking patterns.

Simply, to generate revenue and make Bertie look good with a sudden increase in detections.

And I for one, think it's disgusting.

all very true and well said .

Bertie can look to the people with something to hang up like a carrot in front of a donkey and say theyre making progress.

worst part is that there are a lot of brainwashed morons out there that welcome this, yet another infringement on our freedom and privacy by this nanny state :rolleyes:. no capacity to think for themselves :rolleyes:.

the money they will spend on this load of BS would be better spent on driver training and improvement of what passes for roads here IMO.

whatever happened to the Irish fighting spirit that was here less than 100 years ago i wonder? i guess its ok when our own try to screw us apparently :rolleyes: although i suspect that a few burnt out scameras will be evidence that some still exists here after all

javaboy

D_murph wrote: »

all very true and well said .

Bertie can look to the people with something to hang up like a carrot in front of a donkey and say theyre making progress.

worst part is that there are a lot of brainwashed morons out there that welcome this, yet another infringement on our freedom and privacy by this nanny state :rolleyes:. no capacity to think for themselves :rolleyes:.

the money they will spend on this load of BS would be better spent on driver training and improvement of what passes for roads here IMO.

whatever happened to the Irish fighting spirit that was here less than 100 years ago i wonder? i guess its ok when our own try to screw us apparently :rolleyes: although i suspect that a few burnt out scameras will be evidence that some still exists here after all

Your freedom and privacy? You don't have the freedom to speed and I don't think there's a privacy issue here if you're on a public road.

"the money they will spend on this" - A lot of people seem convinced that it's a revenue generation tactic so won't there be a profit to the government if that's true?

While I agree that driver training and the state of the roads should be higher on the list of priorities than rolling out heaps of speed cameras, I think that you just want to be allowed break the law. I think the comparison between the current government introducing a load of cameras and the oppression we suffered at the hands of them next door ~100 years is a bit hysterical.

Speed limits are not the modern equivalent of the Penal code. The ROTR are there for safe driving. The selective enforcement of certain 'easy target' rules may be a bit cynical, but [mounts high horse] if you don't break the speed limit, you shouldn't have a problem.


One more thing, I resent the "brainwashed morons" and "no capacity to think for themselves" comments.

Steve

javaboy wrote: »

"the money they will spend on this" - A lot of people seem convinced that it's a revenue generation tactic so won't there be a profit to the government if that's true?

I would be so happy to be proved wrong here - the gov. are expecting to make €70m per annum. By this they are admitting it doesn't work!

javaboy

stevec wrote: »

I would be so happy to be proved wrong here - the gov. are expecting to make €70m per annum. By this they are admitting it doesn't work!

I'm not disputing that there is a revenue generation aspect to this decision, I was just pointing out the contradiction of complaining on one hand that the money is being misspent and then complaining about revenue generation.

I agree with you about the annual forecasts though. If they were expected to work well, then the money generated each year should fall.

orbital83

Undoubtedly some of the idiots out there will be caught by this initiative, but they'll be in good company with all the rest of us unless some common sense is taken.
I have visions of a private operator approaching their task with all the gusto of Dublin clampers... meander up to 101km/h in the wrong place on a national road six times in three years, and you're getting the bus.

A little more imagination please? Something other than switching to driving on the right.

Some of the other implications of this:
* Drivers will become preoccupied with watching their speedo instead of the road
* "slow overtaking" on WS2 roads will result in a greater risk of head-on collisions, or being trapped on the wrong side of the road as the target space is filled by the time the maneouvre is completed.
* inability to safely overtake any vehicle travelling within 20km/h of speed limit will lead to frustration and resultant tailgating, dangerous driving etc
* carnage will continue as cameras fail to detect pedestrians disobeying rules, cyclists disobeying rules, drunks staggering along country roads late at night, idiots driving too slowly for the prevailing conditions, drug drivers etc

javaboy

John J wrote: »

* "slow overtaking" on WS2 roads will result in a greater risk of head-on collisions, or being trapped on the wrong side of the road as the target space is filled by the time the maneouvre is completed.
* inability to safely overtake any vehicle travelling within 20km/h of speed limit will lead to frustration and resultant tailgating, dangerous driving etc

Have to agree with you on this point. The 70km/h in an 80 zone types can be a real catch 22 but unless there's a big long empty stretch ahead I just err on the side of caution. A novel idea might be to use these same cameras to enforce minimum speeds:D

John J wrote: »

* carnage will continue as cameras fail to detect pedestrians disobeying rules, cyclists disobeying rules, drunks staggering along country roads late at night, idiots driving too slowly for the prevailing conditions, drug drivers etc

In fairness nobody's talking about disbanding the traffic corps/Gardai. The cameras won't reduce welfare benefit fraud either but it doesn't mean they should be scrapped.

There might even be a positive knock on effect if less manpower has to be devoted to catching speeders.

D_murph

javaboy wrote: »

Your freedom and privacy? You don't have the freedom to speed and I don't think there's a privacy issue here if you're on a public road.

"the money they will spend on this" - A lot of people seem convinced that it's a revenue generation tactic so won't there be a profit to the government if that's true?

While I agree that driver training and the state of the roads should be higher on the list of priorities than rolling out heaps of speed cameras, I think that you just want to be allowed break the law. I think the comparison between the current government introducing a load of cameras and the oppression we suffered at the hands of them next door ~100 years is a bit hysterical.

Speed limits are not the modern equivalent of the Penal code. The ROTR are there for safe driving. The selective enforcement of certain 'easy target' rules may be a bit cynical, but [mounts high horse] if you don't break the speed limit, you shouldn't have a problem.


One more thing, I resent the "brainwashed morons" and "no capacity to think for themselves" comments.

well it seems to me that we are letting ourselves be herded like sheep by our own government who are doing it in a more sneaky, "its for your own good" way. its not violent opression but the results will be the same.

i dont see why actual competent motorists should suffer this load of crap because of a minority of idiots who cant actually drive properly despite their years of "experience" :rolleyes:

we all drift over the limit at times but thats not the same as blatantly speeding but these machines will not be able to tell the difference so you might get knocked off that high horse some day when your leg gets heavy on the pedal in the wrong place

you resent the brainwashed morons who cant think for themselves comment? :eek:

why?

are you one????? :rolleyes:

because if you are not, then you should not have a problem :D

javaboy

D_murph wrote: »

well it seems to me that we are letting ourselves be herded like sheep by our own government who are doing it in a more sneaky, "its for your own good" way. its not violent opression but the results will be the same.

i dont see why actual competent motorists should suffer this load of crap because of a minority of idiots who cant actually drive properly despite their years of "experience" :rolleyes:

we all drift over the limit at times but thats not the same as blatantly speeding but these machines will not be able to tell the difference so you might get knocked off that high horse some day when your leg gets heavy on the pedal in the wrong place

you resent the brainwashed morons who cant think for themselves comment? :eek:

why?

are you one????? :rolleyes:

because if you are not, then you should not have a problem :D

Ok for a start the results of violent oppression at the hands of a colonial power will not be the same as the results of a government's somewhat misguided obsession with one aspect of the rules of the road. It is ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

What load of crap are you 'suffering'? Having to obey the speed limits? If you're not happy with the speed limits, campaign to get them raised where appropriate. Contact your local representative or something constructive.

You'll be the first to know when I get caught for speeding. Besides, I don't have license plates on my high horse so the cameras can't catch me.

I'm not a brainwashed moron but your original statement was "worst part is that there are a lot of brainwashed morons out there that welcome this, yet another infringement on our freedom and privacy by this nanny state ."

I welcome this move (although not necessarily the reasons why it is happening, which I suspect has a lot to do with €€€) and I resent being considered a 'brainwashed moron' because of it. You can make your point without insulting a vast amount of people in one sweeping statement.