Introduction of Speed Cameras

astraboy

BnA wrote: »

I am simply stunned at the level of stupidity and immaturity running through this thread.

I mean, some brain surgeon even tried to suggest that speed cameras will even make the roads more dangerous...!!!!!

Some of the arguments against them are astoundingly idiotic.

If you are arguing against the introduction of Speed Cameras. You are saying...
"I break the speed limit and I would like to continue to do so un-opposed "
You cannot possibly have any other reason to oppose them.

It would be like the Mountjoy Union of Prisioners and general Scummers complaining against the introduction of an armed police force.

Let me spell in out in plain and simple English.

If you do not break the law, it will not matter a snot to you.

Do your research genius, unlike you we have done ours and it pretty much point out that while a small number of well placed cameras reduces accidents, lots of them cause more accidents. People automatically brake when they see one weather they are speeding or not, making the road more dangerous. Also, speeding and actually driving dangerously are rarely if ever the same thing. Yes I break the speed limit on national secondary routes and motorways, marginally and when it is safe to do so. If you really believe these will make a difference to road safety you are less intelligent then your post suggests.

chris85

astraboy wrote: »

Do your research genius, unlike you we have done ours and it pretty much point out that while a small number of well placed cameras reduces accidents, lots of them cause more accidents. People automatically brake when they see one weather they are speeding or not, making the road more dangerous. Also, speeding and actually driving dangerously are rarely if ever the same thing. Yes I break the speed limit on national secondary routes and motorways, marginally and when it is safe to do so. If you really believe these will make a difference to road safety you are less intelligent then your post suggests.

+1

BnA, everyone against the cameras them has used statisitc to back themselves up and to good effect. You have not givin any statisitics and all you do is say we are wrong without any proof to say otherwise.

TheNog

TheNog wrote: »

I believe it is true that the government will make €70m each year from the speed cameras so maybe that money could used for more gardai and better education.

We would hope anyway :cool:

Nog - you know well the profile of fatal accidents. Most are at weekend after pub closing times. Most are males. That most have alcohol in their bloodstreams.

You know well how the traffic units spend their time checking for tax, insurance, speeding (revenue revenue revenue) rather than sit outside some pubs at closing time.

Dude I left the Gardai I was so disgusted with what went on. When I was a student I was horrified to be told by my tutor that tax and insurance was going to be the "bread and butter" of my police work. While on phase 4 I watched a member of the unit issue summonses for RTA left right and center. Ruthless, she would do people for having no mud flaps - check there is a summons for it.
Anyway she got onto the DDU unit because of her sterling work. Having kicked any assault cases or non rta crimes to touch.

When I joined I was foolishly idealistic - like most Gardai when they start. I never joined with the intention of doing checkpoints so that I could be a glorified tax collector.

The way forward with our roads are following the German example with autobahns, fixing our shocking waiting lists for the driving test, implementing a proper driving training program for learners, sitting out side a few pubs at the weekend to change the views of the die hard drink drivers.

I study economics now and car insurance in Ireland is an oligopoly. The Govt make lots of money out of this scenario. Our car tax is misallocated and toll roads are a double taxation.

You tell me TheNog whats the % of cases in court that are tax and insurance?? what 99% at district court level? ridiculous

Why not put car tax on at the pumps? And break the oligopoly and do the same with insurance. Do what they do in Australia NZ and some states in the US when it comes to insurance. There would be no uninsured drivers! Insure the car not the driver - they do this in some of the countries above! VRT in some of these countries cover the most basic 3rd party insurance thus nobody is uninsured and the insurance companies must fight for business creating a competitive market.

In one swoop we would be relieving the courts and the Gardai of massive amounts of work so that they can focus on REAL CRIME NOT TAX COLLECTING.

The relevance of the above in regard to speeding cameras is to paint the picture - the true picture - of what goes on

---

REVENUE GENERATING...
Its all so very cynical.
In the name of safety yeah right......

Steve

Excellent post blindjustice.

javaboy

I'm disgusted and surprised at the turn this thread has taken. Somebody comes on making rational points that the majority don't agree with and gets branded a troll. He replies defending himself reasonably and people resort to insults about Gay Byrne having his you-know-what up his you-know-where. It will be interesting to see on Q&A tonight when the majority will more than likely be on the opposite side, if they brand anyone who disagrees with speed cameras a troll or if they tell them to take Speed Racer's d*ck out of their hole.

astraboy

Javaboy, if you don't like it, don't come here and post. We are here having a discussion, arguing various sides of this and putting forward our points of view. In fairness to sandwich he stands by his points and can take a joke. We all put forward research to counter his points. Just because we don't all lie down and believe the governments bull **** about this being a safety initiative like you, and not agreeing with your points of view regarding ridiculous enforcement of speed limits, you consider this thread "disgusting". Jog on to the knitting forum and talk about how evil all cars/speeders/boy racers/SUV's are unless you are willing to contribute to the debate without spewing the same drivel we are fed by the government.

Research your facts and figures on how, when and where fatal accidents occur, and look up the UK to see how "safety camera partnerships" faired when they replaced police on the roads. Meanwhile, the areas that used correct policing saw a notable drop in accidents. Figures are all on the net if you have time to compare.

Cyrus

ok astraboy have you read the links i posted on the thread re the state of victoria?

also you do realise the cameras are being run by a private co, therefore the gardai will not be the ones doing the detecting therefore they wont be taken away from other police work

javaboy

astraboy wrote: »

Javaboy, if you don't like it, don't come here and post. We are here having a discussion, arguing various sides of this and putting forward our points of view. In fairness to sandwich he stands by his points and can take a joke. We all put forward research to counter his points. Just because we don't all lie down and believe the governments bull **** about this being a safety initiative like you, and not agreeing with your points of view regarding ridiculous enforcement of speed limits, you consider this thread "disgusting". Jog on to the knitting forum and talk about how evil all cars/speeders/boy racers/SUV's are unless you are willing to contribute to the debate without spewing the same drivel we are fed by the government.

Research your facts and figures on how, when and where fatal accidents occur, and look up the UK to see how "safety camera partnerships" faired when they replaced police on the roads. Meanwhile, the areas that used correct policing saw a notable drop in accidents. Figures are all on the net if you have time to compare.

If you read through my posts you'll find I don't lie down and believe all the rubbish the government spouts. You'll also see that I've been able to see things from other people's points of view and that I don't for a second think that speed cameras are a silver bullet.

In reference to the UK speed cameras, I don't want to see speed cameras replace police on the roads. Whoever thought that little gem of an idea up ought to be battered about the head with an all in one edition of the encyclopedia Brittanica. Speeding is one of the problems on the road (probably a very small one) and I have already admitted that the speed camera decision has been taken for the wrong reasons. I've also said that I believe the government has a misguided obsession with speed being the root of all evil.


"Just because we don't all lie down and believe the governments bull **** about this being a safety initiative like you, and not agreeing with your points of view regarding ridiculous enforcement of speed limits, you consider this thread "disgusting"."

That's way off the mark. I was complaining that somebody was posting with an opinion that disagreed with the majority and was subsequently branded a troll. Then there was comments about buggery from Gay Byrne and sh1t about knitting. That doesn't sound too much like "We are here having a discussion, arguing various sides of this and putting forward our points of view." I know my opinion is in the minority on this thread (as the poll results prove) but that's not why I was disgusted at the thread. Reread my previous post again.


P.S. I am banned from the knitting forum for posting unsavoury crochet squares

astraboy

Fair enough man, looks like you grasp the bigger picture of road safety. I just feel that a lot of people are blinded by the constant sound bites from the RSA and the Government about speeding, and don't realize that road safety is a far far more complex thing then people obeying the speed limits.

javaboy

astraboy wrote: »

Fair enough man, looks like you grasp the bigger picture of road safety. I just feel that a lot of people are blinded by the constant sound bites from the RSA and the Government about speeding, and don't realize that road safety is a far far more complex thing then people obeying the speed limits.

Glad we're friends again.

I agree about the soundbites blinded people. The scary thing is that Gaybo genuinely wants to sort out road safety but he alienates so many people with the things he says (I am suffering from young male driver disease btw :rolleyes:) and he doesn't seem to understand "that road safety is a far far more complex thing then people obeying the speed limits."

Hope tonight's questions and answers isn't a one-sided blood bath. tbh I'd say it's gonna be very frustrating for anyone anti-speed cams, embarrasing for anyone who's pro-cameras but also pro common sense (that's me ) and I'd say the porridge will be just right for the SPEED=DEATH soundbiters.

Rovi

George Hook will be doing an item on 'speed over-rated in road safety' (or words to that effect) later in today's show (which has just started)-
http://newstalk.ie/newstalk/programmes/6/the-right-hook.html

Listen live-
http://www.blueface.tv/newstalk/live/radio.html


edited to add:
The item will be on at 5:00pm, after the news headlines I presume.
He's going to be discussing it with Kevin Myers.

D_murph

Deleted User wrote: »

Nog - you know well the profile of fatal accidents. Most are at weekend after pub closing times. Most are males. That most have alcohol in their bloodstreams.

You know well how the traffic units spend their time checking for tax, insurance, speeding (revenue revenue revenue) rather than sit outside some pubs at closing time.

Dude I left the Gardai I was so disgusted with what went on. When I was a student I was horrified to be told by my tutor that tax and insurance was going to be the "bread and butter" of my police work. While on phase 4 I watched a member of the unit issue summonses for RTA left right and center. Ruthless, she would do people for having no mud flaps - check there is a summons for it.
Anyway she got onto the DDU unit because of her sterling work. Having kicked any assault cases or non rta crimes to touch.

When I joined I was foolishly idealistic - like most Gardai when they start. I never joined with the intention of doing checkpoints so that I could be a glorified tax collector.

The way forward with our roads are following the German example with autobahns, fixing our shocking waiting lists for the driving test, implementing a proper driving training program for learners, sitting out side a few pubs at the weekend to change the views of the die hard drink drivers.

I study economics now and car insurance in Ireland is an oligopoly. The Govt make lots of money out of this scenario. Our car tax is misallocated and toll roads are a double taxation.

You tell me TheNog whats the % of cases in court that are tax and insurance?? what 99% at district court level? ridiculous

Why not put car tax on at the pumps? And break the oligopoly and do the same with insurance. Do what they do in Australia NZ and some states in the US when it comes to insurance. There would be no uninsured drivers! Insure the car not the driver - they do this in some of the countries above! VRT in some of these countries cover the most basic 3rd party insurance thus nobody is uninsured and the insurance companies must fight for business creating a competitive market.

In one swoop we would be relieving the courts and the Gardai of massive amounts of work so that they can focus on REAL CRIME NOT TAX COLLECTING.

The relevance of the above in regard to speeding cameras is to paint the picture - the true picture - of what goes on

---

REVENUE GENERATING...
Its all so very cynical.
In the name of safety yeah right......

im sure a few die hard members of the do-gooders club will still try to justify their comments here, even after this but you sir have given them one hell of a task .

you have actual experience in this matter so these posters, (you know who you are!!!) haven't a leg to stand on after this IMO.

maybe they will just go away now after you have spelled it out for them in plain and simple terms that even they should be able to understand.

we need more posters like you man. i salute you

GTC

+1 BlindJustice, absolutely correct.

Traffic Corps has been taken off speed detection and placed on checkpoints, so the speed camera initiation will result in a massive rise in detections. All good for Bertie.

Yeah, that's right folks. Bertie is letting people die in their hundreds so he can have a few months good publicity.

Well done to all our resident FF voters!!

GTC, Garda Traffic Corps

javaboy

GTC wrote: »

+1 BlindJustice, absolutely correct.

Traffic Corps has been taken off speed detection and placed on checkpoints, so the speed camera initiation will result in a massive rise in detections. All good for Bertie.

Yeah, that's right folks. Bertie is letting people die in their hundreds so he can have a few months good publicity.

Well done to all our resident FF voters!!

GTC, Garda Traffic Corps

Em is it not a good thing that traffic corps won't have to do as much speed detection (since a machine can do it) and are being placed on the checkpoints which enforce drink driving etc?

A member of GTC campaigning against speed cameras would probably have a lot more weight to their opinion than Joe Public. I'm curious, has the GTC been given directions from on high about sticking to the party line? e.g. would you be given a bollockin in the morning if you were on questions and answers tonight and spoke against speed cams?

For the record I'm not a FF voter [shudder].

Steve

GTC wrote: »

+1 BlindJustice, absolutely correct.

Traffic Corps has been taken off speed detection and placed on checkpoints, so the speed camera initiation will result in a massive rise in detections. All good for Bertie.

Yeah, that's right folks. Bertie is letting people die in their hundreds so he can have a few months good publicity.

Well done to all our resident FF voters!!

GTC, Garda Traffic Corps

TBH I think it's a better use of resources if you are catching drunk drivers.

Edit: I also think time would be better spent pulling up right lane hoggers and giving them an education.

I think what GTC means is that they will be out looking for tax and insurance etc and not drunken driving.

To target drunken driving you need to put people out at certain times, change shifts around. A proper operation would probably be needed or else a permanent change in shift patterns.

basically the GTC will be freed up to do more checkpoints *during the day* to target tax collecting in the way of no tax/insurance or mudflaps LOL

Seth Brundle

For the record, I frequently see unmarked cars patrolling our roads. I frequently see garda speed traps and although I haven't seen the Talivan in a while they are often on the N4. I pass by the speed camera at the Spa every day on my commute. I occasionally come across a tax checkpoint (maybe twice a month).

Now, when was the last time I came across a drink drive checkpoint? September!
When was the last time I was checked for drugs? Never
When was my car last checked if it was roadworthy? Almost two years ago.
When was I last checked to see if I knew how to drive? Nearly one and a half decades ago!

There is no emphasis on any other offence apart from speed. I do believe that the majority of gardai use a fair bit of common sense in their policing and I would like to think that is why I still have not earned any points (touchwood!). When Speedbusters Ltd arrive on the scene, they will not use common sense. Whilst they are not being paid based on performance, it is part of their contract and renewal of their contract is certainly going to be based on their 'successes'. I also object to some company policing the streets in the smae manner that many of the clamping companies operate!

Feck it, its going to happen. We have a government who on the one hand want loads of cars so that the money keeps coming in and then we ahve the other shower of saps who want us all to cycle! What hope does an element of realism have in this poxy country!

Niall1234

Anyone listen to Hook earlier.

Anyone with a quick summary ?