Asking flatmates to move out...how hard?

Calina

Hi folks,

I'm living in a house share and am sole lease signatory for historic reasons (people come and going etc). I like the house a lot, it's very near work and all that jazz. I keep the landlord updated with the names of the tenants.

Last year due to the usual movements, two people moved out and two people moved in. I'm now getting to the stage where I've had enough of the current two for an increasing number of increasingly petty reasons. Ultimately, the key difference between them and me is that this house is effectively my home (permanent job/can't afford to buy) but for them it's temporary and they behave accordingly.

I've been living in shared accommodation for 15 years plus and although there have been a few fruitcakes, I've never had to deal with two problematic flatmates at the same time.

Amongst their sins at this stage are

1) a tendency not to be quiet during unsocial hours such as 5am with the result that I'm not absolutely sure when I last got a full night's sleep. One of them does the "did I wake you trick" on a regular basis to which she gets yes and I get "oh sorry". The other one got politely requested to make less noise during the night following an incident involving showers running at 1 and 2.30am (pre and post sex with his girlfriend) last week. This morning again, both of them woke me up at 4.50.

2) a tendency to be obsessively "tidy" particularly about other people's belongings but not especially clean. I can cope with clutter far more easily than dirt and have already had to request both of them to deal with rinsing out stuff that's supposed to go into recycling (which neither of them are doing), a tendency to take dirty stuff out of the dishwasher and put it in cupboards. I also find that my stuff tends to get "tidied" or "hidden out of sight" with the result that sometimes I can't find it which is infuriating.

3) both of them have on a number of occasions paid rent late to me - as in I have to ensure rent on the whole house gets paid by a certain date but each of them has come to me and requested days grace "until they get paid" or spectacularly by text "cos I'm a little financially stretched at the moment". As a general rule I wouldn't have a problem with that on a once off basis but as it's happened with both of them inside a six month period twice I'm getting annoyed.

4) they don't appear to take care of other people's stuff. Other, in this case, is obviously me and amounts to most of the items in the kitchen.

Both are 10 or so years younger than me. I haven't worked out how much of this is linked to me being trampled all over and how much of this is linked to me being less flexible as I get older. What I do know is that five years ago I couldn't have tolerated 3) because I would have been financially stretched myself.

When they moved in, the verbal agreement all round was one month's notice on either side. There was a major argument with one of them a few weeks ago during which time she threatened to move out, on the understanding that I would back down (this related to cleaning and she was implying that she did all the cleaning) and I said fine, think about it over the weekend but remember I can ask you to move out too. I earned myself something like half an hour's abuse for this and eventually escaped it only because I happened to have to drive 250km to my parents' place for family reasons. Since then nothing has been said regarding whether she stays although she has paid rent. Prior to that I had never had any fight or argument with a flatmate before. Ever.

One of them is due to move out sometime around June-July direction and in part I was planning to hang in there until that one went and then perhaps re org the house share from three to two and split the rent equally (currently there's a weighting based on which room you're in). I already know from prior discussions that the other one who I think might be planning to go in September will not buy this as a) her rent will have to increase and b) her contributions to bills will have to increase. This wouldn't bother me so much except the latest ESB bill is 50% higher than I have ever seen before.

I know that the automatic response will be to suggest I ask them to move out. I just want advice on the modalities of doing so as I'm not an owner occupier. Although they are not named on the lease, in truth, I want to be reasonably fair about it. Following that I would look for just one other person to share the house with me.

iguana

What I would do is tell them that you can't afford to cover their rent for even a few days as it puts you under too much strain financially. So the next time they are even a day late with their rent they can consider themselves under notice to move out. That way they will either cop on a bit and stop taking advantage, or you will have an excuse to tell them to leave.

You may feel that some of the things that are bothering you are petty, but the fact is that when it's your home the little annoying things are massively magnified. And constantly being woke up in the early hours isn't a little thing.

the_syco

Calina wrote: »

This wouldn't bother me so much except the latest ESB bill is 50% higher than I have ever seen before.

Sounds like they have electric heaters. They rape your bill.

iguana wrote: »

What I would do is tell them that you can't afford to cover their rent for even a few days as it puts you under too much strain financially. So the next time they are even a day late with their rent they can consider themselves under notice to move out. That way they will either cop on a bit and stop taking advantage, or you will have an excuse to tell them to leave.

+1. They ask, you say no, and that's the end of it. If they give you abuse for it, put the foot down.

Latchy

Handy to have everything in writing in case of any misunderstandings/ potential legal issues .

Supercell

Calina, sounds like you need to share with people closer to your age at this point.

Its stuff like this that made me realise that I really didnt want to live with people living in their first gaff away from home.

If you are effectively their landlord, then just give them notice and advertise for older tenants or try and find your own place.

I'm at the point by now that I'd rather pay a little more/commute a little further if I dont have to share accommodation with anyone that I dont want to because I'm just past the bonking and noises at all hours sharing any more!

patrickolee

Have to agree with Longfield, you need to share with older people, or else you need stop sharing altogether and buy a place yourself. Imagine what it will be like in 15 years, when you're hitting your 50s.

Anyway, to your original question, they are tenants, just like you. The have as many rights and responsibilities. They have to pay their rent, themselves and on time. That being said, sounds like you won't have much longer to put up with them anyway.

Calina

First up, thanks for the contributions.

I've mixed feelings about it to be honest. I am not sure that age is the issue; but lifestyle and personality is. I base that on previous experience - I've lived with 20 year olds with zero difficulty and I've lived with 35 year olds with zero difficulty.

I could write an essay on how I think part of it might be cultural on the grounds that the house is multinational (three different nationalities) or gender related (one guy two girls) and it would probably do me a lot of good. I actually think it boils down to the fact that some people are impossible to live with and some people are not.

In terms of asking them to move out the impression I have is that in the event of a houseshare going sour, from a legal basis, it is hard to get people who don't want to move out to move out without a lot of aggravation. Normally in the past if I wasn't the leaseholder myself I would just issue one month's notice and walk. Lease is up for renewal in three and a half month's time. I may wait out those three months at least see where that takes me.

Personally i don't mind sharing with people no matter what their ages if they are reasonably responsible and flexible. What I am getting here is a lack of responsibility and total selfishness and in that case I would hold my hand up and say that the vetting failed in some respect.

eth0_

Calina - you can't really vet for people who are going to be up in the middle of the night having loud sex, taking showers, waking the house up coming in drunk at all hours.

People can act sweet and innocent and then turn on you once they move in.

If I were you i'd chalk it up to experience and kick them out.

AARRRGH

patrickolee wrote: »

they are tenants, just like you. The have as many rights and responsibilities.

Not true.

As she is the lease holder, they come under the "rent a room" scheme so she only needs to give them "reasonable notice" to get rid of them.

They do not have normal tenants rights.

(I went through all this myself before so I have researched the legalities.)

Ste.phen

They're most likely licensees if they never bothered to request full tenant status.
This is the same status held by people renting under the rent-a-room scheme, but this has nothing to do with the rent a room scheme.

And yes, this pretty much gives them no rights in many cases, but only if they're paying Calina directly.
If they're paying rent to the landlord, they probably have full tenancy rights, even without a printed lease or PRTB registration.

Firetrap

patrickolee wrote: »

Have to agree with Longfield, you need to share with older people, or else you need stop sharing altogether and buy a place yourself. Imagine what it will be like in 15 years, when you're hitting your 50s.

Erm...not everyone can afford to buy a place even though house prices are falling. Also, there are lots of people who have bought houses but then end up having to rent out rooms => back to sharing again.

patrickolee

dublindude wrote: »

Not true.

As she is the lease holder, they come under the "rent a room" scheme so she only needs to give them "reasonable notice" to get rid of them.

They do not have normal tenants rights.

(I went through all this myself before so I have researched the legalities.)

Think you're wrong there dude...

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/housing/buying-a-home/owning-a-home/rent_a_room_scheme

note the 'owning-a-home' part of the URL. Rent a room pertains to a home owner being allowed to earn a little extra cash from renting some of their rooms out, not someone subletting.

Anyway, thats neither here nor there, the decent thing to do would either be to wait the couple of months (way less hassle), or just ask them to leave in a month.

Treating them as licencees in this case would be a little sharp, don't you think?

patrickolee

Firetrap wrote: »

Erm...not everyone can afford to buy a place even though house prices are falling. Also, there are lots of people who have bought houses but then end up having to rent out rooms => back to sharing again.

Yep, thats true... that was why I wrote 'or'...

Jo King

patrickolee wrote: »

Think you're wrong there dude...

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/housing/buying-a-home/owning-a-home/rent_a_room_scheme

note the 'owning-a-home' part of the URL. Rent a room pertains to a home owner being allowed to earn a little extra cash from renting some of their rooms out, not someone subletting.

Anyway, thats neither here nor there, the decent thing to do would either be to wait the couple of months (way less hassle), or just ask them to leave in a month.

Treating them as licencees in this case would be a little sharp, don't you think?

The rent a room scheme is silent on the status of the guests. The owner can give a lease if he wants but would be unlikely to have any good reason for doing so. A sole lessee who is the occupier can contract with any sharers in the same way as an owner occupier and give licences rather that sub-leases or making the sharer co-lessees.
Sharp or not is is the occupier who makes the rules. It is the occupier who has the legal responsibility for the property.

DawnMc

Dear blahblah,

Due to unforseen circumstances, you will need to seek alternative accomodation from (date one month from now). Please accept this as your one month's notice as agreed when you moved in.

Sincerely,

Get The Hell Out.



I'm an owner/occupier and have done this in the past. Works a treat.

Mazeire

Can you not talk to the land lord abou all this? IMO ii sounds like the time has come for you to either rent or buy on your own.