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33 Palestians/8 Israelis murdered and how the media reacts
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bartholomewbinn wrote: »I MO Israel today should be treated the same was as South Africa was treated until they were forced to get rid of their odious apartheid regime. And that is exactly what Israel has in place today, except they are murdering children as well. Not even the South Africans resorted to that. (Yes I am aware of Sharpsville where 60 innocent Africans were killed.) A drop in the bucket compared with the wholesale slaughter Israel is guilty of. Economic sanctions against Israel will not work. (The USA will just bail them out, they are subsidising them as it is) What should happen is a complete boycott of Israeli goods by the European Union. Don’t buy anything from them and don’t sell them anything. No travel to Israel and do not let them enter their football teams into European competitions (where they should not be in the first place). It won’t happen of course, but it should.
i agree with all your saying.
i also believe that the only real solution to the whole Irseal conflict is a settlement that will firstly give equal power to both states and the area's under conflict should be under UN control.0 -
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From Yahoo- posted three mins ago
Unter the title Rice "Hamas to Blame for latest bloodshed"RAMALLAH, West Bank - Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas declared Tuesday that "peace and negotiations are our strategic choice" but fell short of announcing a resumption of peace talks that his government cut off after an upsurge in fighting between Israel and Hamas-ruled Gaza. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice exhorted Israel to "spare innocent life," though she said it has a right to defend itself against Hamas rockets.
"I call on the Israeli government to halt its aggression so the necessary environment can be created to make negotiations succeed, for us and for them, to reach the shores of peace in 2008," Abbas said. He was referring to the goal — stated at a U.S.-sponsored Mideast peace conference in November — of reaching an Israeli-Palestinian peace treaty by the end of the year.
Abbas made his comments in a joint news conference with Rice, who also was holding talks Tuesday with Israeli leaders.
Abbas' public comments were a disappointment for the United States, which had hoped for a firmer commitment to renew negotiations launched by the Bush administration at a conference in Annapolis, Md. Rice looked on, lips pursed, as Abbas called Israel's action unjustified "under any pretext."
The top U.S. diplomat said that Israel must have the right to defend itself, but added that she will make the case to Israelis that they should make "a very strong effort to spare innocent life" in Gaza.
Earlier, she said that walking away from talks plays into the hands of militants, and Rice blamed Palestinian Hamas radicals for provoking an Israeli military onslaught in the Gaza Strip. The campaign has derailed an already troubled U.S-backed drive for peace terms this year.
"Negotiations are going to have to be able to withstand the efforts of rejectionists to upset them, to create chaos and violence, so that people react by deciding not to negotiate, " Rice said in Egypt at the start of two days of efforts to rescue negotiations. "That's the game of those who don't want to see a Palestinian state established."
At the White House, press secretary Dana Perino said that Abbas' comments "were encouraging," though he didn't say he was ready to resume peace talks.
"Obviously there's a lot of tension right now between Israelis and the Palestinians," Perino said. "We fully recognize that. Secretary Rice is in the region to help them bridge back together."
Perino continued to blame Hamas for inciting the bloodshed.
"Unfortunately, so many innocent people are caught up in the violence," she said. "And one of the reactions of the violence is to close in and to decide not to talk. But I think what President Abbas said today to Secretary Rice was that he is willing to try to reach out again, but that Israel has to meet him halfway."
The moderate, U.S.-backed Palestinian leadership in the West Bank suspended peace talks in protest after an Israeli military offensive that killed more than 100 Palestinians in Gaza. That made restoring two-way talks Rice's chief objective for a trip she had planned to check up on the negotiators' progress.
Israel launched the offensive to stop rocket attacks by the Hamas militant groups on nearby Israeli cities, but the assault prompted Abbas to suspend negotiations. Israeli aircraft sent more missiles crashing into Gaza on Tuesday after more rockets were fired on the southern town of Sderot.
"The people who are firing rockets do not want peace," Rice told reporters in Cairo. "They sow instability, that is what Hamas is doing."
Rice backed Israel's right to respond to the rocket fire, but said it must avoid causing civilian casualties.
"The rocket attacks against innocent Israelis in their cities need to stop. This can't go on. No Israeli government can tolerate that," she said. But the Israelis "need to be aware of the effects of these operations on innocent people."
She said Hamas, which took over the Gaza Strip last July, is armed "in part" by Iran and underlined the need for the United States and the West to train and develop the Palestinian security forces loyal to Abbas, whose government controls the West Bank.
"Hamas gets armed by the Iranians and if nobody helps to improve the security capabilities of the legitimate Palestinian Authority security forces. That's not a very good situation," she said at a news conference with Egyptian Foreign Minister Ahmed Aboul Gheit.
Rice said she still thinks the two sides can reach a deal for Palestinian statehood this year.
"I do think that negotiations ought to resume as soon as possible," Rice told reporters Monday on her way to the Middle East. "I understand that the situation has been complicated. But the longer the negotiations are not ongoing or the longer that they are suspended, if that's what one wants to call it, the more it is a victory for those who don't want to see a two-state solution."
Rice declined to call for a cease-fire, which many Israelis think would legitimize Hamas and its hold in Gaza. The Mediterranean coastal strip is the smaller, poorer of two Arab tracts that would form an independent Palestinian state alongside Israel.
Gheit, whose country has sought to isolate Hamas, also stopped short of calling for a cease-fire. He said Egypt was seeking to convince Israel "not to resort to excessive use of force.... The imbalance of power (between Hamas and the Israelis) must be taken into account." He said Egypt also urges the Palestinians to halt rocket fire.
Israel said it wants to continue negotiations, but suggested it also may launch a full-scale re-invasion of the Gaza territory it abandoned three years ago.
There is so much propoganda there I don't know where to begin. With that head in the sand attitude there will never be peace.0 -
There is no right in this conflict- they are both wrong. Israel however is the obvious bully.
This way of thinking I really dont understand. There is a right and there is a wrong .. Israel is wrong. The country should not exist and the people who used to live there are living in poverty and getting bombed out of existence. On top of all of this the Israelis are still expanding into the West Bank. I dont know why people are afraid to say what they fckin think about this .. Are people so afraid of being branded anti semitic or something?
Its as obvious in this conflict as it was obvious with Nazi Germany who is right and who is wrong.
Is blaming people going to solve the problem .. no it isnt and a two state solution is going to have to happen sooner or later. But in my mind I am very comfortable making a moral judgement that Israel is a terrorist and racist state and I would be more than happy if the country was disolved in the morning. I think people who try and justify Israel and its actions are no better than Nazi's. The information is there in black and white for everyone to see. Anybody who can objectively come to a conclusion that there 'is no right or wrong' or 'Israel is right' must either be smoking something or is a racist.
I dont care if people want to brand me anti semitic .. thats just an underhand tactic that Zionists use to deflect attention away from their actions. The fact that Zionists brand jews such Noam Chomsky and Norman Finkelstine as having some self hating jew mental illness just goes to show what lenghts they will go to when challegened by anyone .. even a member of the jewish community.0 -
The top U.S. diplomat said that Israel must have the right to defend itself, but added that she will make the case to Israelis that they should make "a very strong effort to spare innocent life" in Gaza.
Now isn’t that very big of the USA, well done, what a remarkable humanitarian gesture. I can see a Nobel peace prize on the horizon here.0 -
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Join Date:Posts: 6185
Just one question:
If Israel is a nation created for the Jewish diaspora, where is my Christian nation? We're not all going to fit in the Vatican City at this stage.
The best way to analyse a theory is bring it to its conclusion and see how ridciulous it turns out. Now, what people will we displace to make Christendom once again? Italians, French? Well, we do have a claim on Jerusalem as well - why don't we join in the fight for the 'Promised Land' as well?
The creation of Israel was one of the biggest mistakes this world has ever made. Unfortunately it exists now, and has the right to. Having said that, people shouldn't be under any illusions about the circumstances surrounding its foundation. Two wrongs don't make a right.0 -
Oh please, the sickening Irish contempt for Israel strikes back up again. As the only viable democracy in the Middle East I'm glad Isreal is on the map as I find Islamic dictatorships and general values backwards, archaic and contemptuous towards free speech/females/homosexuals.
I notice no-one ever brings up all the Palestinian honour killings by their families of women unfortunate enough to be raped? Ya, thought so. Lets all just blame Bush again0 -
speedboatchase wrote: »Oh please, the sickening Irish contempt for Israel strikes back up again. As the only viable democracy in the Middle East I'm glad Isreal is on the map as I find Islamic dictatorships and general values backwards, archaic and contemptuous towards free speech/females/homosexuals.
I notice no-one ever brings up all the Palestinian honour killings by their families of women unfortunate enough to be raped? Ya, thought so. Lets all just blame Bush again
What the fck has Palestinian culture got to do with anything?? That is a completley seperate issue .. AGAIN .. Zionist sympathisers deflect from the issues and try and sling mud.0 -
speedboatchase wrote: »Oh please, the sickening Irish contempt for Israel strikes back up again. As the only viable democracy in the Middle East I'm glad Isreal is on the map as I find Islamic dictatorships and general values backwards, archaic and contemptuous towards free speech/females/homosexuals.
I notice no-one ever brings up all the Palestinian honour killings by their families of women unfortunate enough to be raped? Ya, thought so. Lets all just blame Bush again
This is Irish contempt for the mass murder of civilians, men women and children by Israel, backed up and abetted by the USA. And yes, Bush is to blame, he is (god help us) the president of the USA. If you feel strongly about Palestinian honour killings please start a thread on that subject.0 -
unless there has been one in the last 48 hours ? But it is a wee bit of topic otherwise,
Try an picture what Palestinian society is suffering at the moment, its pretty anarchic and that breeds all sorts of inhumanity out of poverty, the means and motive are there and the Israelis have thrown fuel on the situation in an indiscriminate outburst of violence, Then they offend the families of the dead by trying to justify it to the international community. Shame on them. Ar least have some respect for them.0 -
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The Arab world in general is just loving this. It serves thier interest to keep the Palestians in the conditions they are at the moment.
Its very clear and very simple whats happening at the moment
HAMAS ATTACKED ISRAEL!!!!!!! Before the rockets it was the suicide bombers...infiltrating Israel and blowing themselves up in shopping centres,cafes,beach resorts...all aimed at no one else other than the typical Israeli citizen.
IDF missile and rocket attacks target the militant leadership...not the general Palestian population.
Israel at the moment is simply defending itself and trying to knock out a possible future threat.Its citizens are in primary concern...not the lives of the militants or those who allow militants to use thier properties to launch attacks against the IDF.
What the IDF should do now is mount a large scale ground incursion and sweep right through Gaza0 -
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this vid shows why so many civilians seem to be getting caught up in the fighting.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=09a_12045689300 -
The Arab world in general is just loving this. It serves thier interest to keep the Palestians in the conditions they are at the moment.
No, actually I doubt they like to see dead Palestinians. Now, if you talking about there governments, you would be right, all they care about is themselves in that case.Its very clear and very simple whats happening at the moment
HAMAS ATTACKED ISRAEL!!!!!!! Before the rockets it was the suicide bombers...infiltrating Israel and blowing themselves up in shopping centres,cafes,beach resorts...all aimed at no one else other than the typical Israeli citizen.
Before there was a single suicide attack by Palestinians, Israel began it colonial project. Apartheid existed long before any of this. The occupation and ethnic cleansing existed before this. The occupation is the root cause not Hamas. In fact the occupation was there long before Hamas. Hamas exists due to the occupation.IDF missile and rocket attacks target the militant leadership...not the general Palestian population.
Thats bull, we saw Israel indiscriminately cluster bomb the Lebanese country side in 2006 for example. Here is a Human Rights Watch report on the war.
Israel has no trouble with civilian causalities, hence why there tends to be so many. Also, Israel word on the matter is worthless.Israel at the moment is simply defending itself and trying to knock out a possible future threat.Its citizens are in primary concern...not the lives of the militants or those who allow militants to use thier properties to launch attacks against the IDF.
Grabbing more land is the primary concern of Israel, why else would they put there citizens in danger among a hostile populace in there West Bank Colonies.
Of course lets not forget the deputy defense minister comments from a few days ago.What the IDF should do now is mount a large scale ground incursion and sweep right through Gaza
Sweep and murder more innocent civilians? Which is a specialty of the IDF.0 -
The problem is America can never be too critical of Israel because they are guilty of the very same crimes the israelis are accused of ie. land grabs manopolization of resources both in the past (native americans any one ?) and the present, for all Bushes talk of a contiguous state for the palestinians the reality I fear will be closer to what befell the native americans.0
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speedboatchase wrote: »Oh please, the sickening Irish contempt for Israel strikes back up again. As the only viable democracy in the Middle East I'm glad Isreal is on the map as I find Islamic dictatorships and general values backwards, archaic and contemptuous towards free speech/females/homosexuals.
I notice no-one ever brings up all the Palestinian honour killings by their families of women unfortunate enough to be raped? Ya, thought so. Lets all just blame Bush again
Thank you 'speedboatchase', summed it up perfectly.
I love the way so many people in Ireland in general are so reluctant to criticise Islamic nations but love to criticise all things American, very odd.
Quick question : Which of these countries would you prefer to live in as a white Christain ? (assumed most Irish people are Irish Christains)
Syria
Jordan
Egypt
Isreal
Lebanon
Iran
Iraq
the answer is obvious I'd think.0 -
Benedict XVI I love the way so many people in Ireland in general are so reluctant to criticise Islamic nations but love to criticise all things American, very odd.
Quick question : Which of these countries would you prefer to live in as a white Christain ? (assumed most Irish people are Irish Christains)
Syria
Jordan
Egypt
Isreal
Lebanon
Iran
Iraq
the answer is obvious I'd think.
America's just too tempting a target I'm afraid Benedict its so active for good or ill in the world (and yes it does do some good no doubt) its bound to tread on toes and raise some ire , I'm not convinced we In ireland are any more critical of america or more specfically this administration then most americans.
as for your if you like them so much go live there question its a specious argument just because one is critical of the way certain Global and regional superpowers act in the middle east doesnt mean we are blind to the backward and sometimes abhorant policies of other countries in the region some of us just dont think its up to us to go in and sort them out real change must come from within not without.
Also maybe rather then complain about bias in a thread titled "33 Palestians murdered in 48 hours, and the world is silent " you should open a new one exhorting the inadequacies of your listed countries .;)0 -
Yes, the answer is LebanonBenedict XVI wrote: »Thank you 'speedboatchase', summed it up perfectly.
I love the way so many people in Ireland in general are so reluctant to criticise Islamic nations but love to criticise all things American, very odd.
Quick question : Which of these countries would you prefer to live in as a white Christain ? (assumed most Irish people are Irish Christains)
Syria
Jordan
Egypt
Isreal
Lebanon
Iran
Iraq
the answer is obvious I'd think.0 -
Again to the above posters .... What the hell has that got to do with anything? As usual Zionist sympathisers deflect from the issues and try to sling mud. You see there is no defence for Israel and its actions so people have to change the topic or sling mud.
Fact is that America and Israel are wrong. The policy of both these countries towards Palestine has been despicable. People are homeless and without food, water and sanitation because of these two countries. Men, Women, Children and new born infants are dying because of the actions of Israel.
I am a US citizen and I am disgusted at the actions of my own countries governments in regard to Palestine. I dont have a problem with America .. I have a problem with American foreign policy in the middle east ... two very seperate things. I dont have a problem with the Jewish people but I do have a problem with Zionism and the state of Israel .. also two very seperate things. But every time there is a discussion about this topic certain genuises reappear and accuse people of being anti-american or an anti-semite. They do this because they have no argument and are biased to the point of racism. It's a typical and well documented Zionist tactic.0 -
Join Date:Posts: 6185
Benedict XVI wrote: »Thank you 'speedboatchase', summed it up perfectly.
I love the way so many people in Ireland in general are so reluctant to criticise Islamic nations but love to criticise all things American, very odd.
Quick question : Which of these countries would you prefer to live in as a white Christain ? (assumed most Irish people are Irish Christains)
Syria
Jordan
Egypt
Isreal
Lebanon
Iran
Iraq
the answer is obvious I'd think.
Sorry but uh what does where I, or anyone else here, would want to live have do with this issue? Then again, no one answered my earlier question? WHere is my 'promised' Christian land?? Does every major religion in this world get its own nation or is there something extra special about Zionist Jews?
I think this article from the BBC highlights the fact that Israel have effectively turned Palestine into one big concentration camp. The irony boggles the mind:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7280026.stmThe groups' report, Gaza Strip: A Humanitarian Implosion, says the blockade has dramatically worsened levels of poverty and unemployment, and has led to deterioration in education and health services.
More than 1.1 million Gazans are dependent on food aid and of 110,000 workers previously employed in the private sector, 75,000 have now lost their jobs, the report says.
Actually seeing as we're on the subject of living preferences, where would you rather live oh holy one: the concentration camp that is Palestine or the Mediterranean resort of Israel?0 -
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Benedict XVI wrote: »
Quick question : Which of these countries would you prefer to live in as a white Christain ? (assumed most Irish people are Irish Christains)
Syria
Jordan
Egypt
Isreal
Lebanon
Iran
Iraq
the answer is obvious I'd think.
What the hell? Does this mean we have to make every country in the world a white christian country?
And to answer your question it would be Egypt or Lebanon. I have been to both.0 -
Alan Shatter gave a very good interview from Israel on this on Morning Ireland this morning.
I know people will lambaste him for being pro - Israel but he makes some good points.
Essentially by continuing to carry out rocket attacks on Israel, Hamas are demonstrating that they have no interest in a peace process.
http://www.rte.ie/radio1/morningireland/ Click on Thursday on the right hand side it is about 1ht 50min into the show0 -
Article about US involvement.
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/04/gaza200804
Vanity Fair has obtained confidential documents, since corroborated by sources in the U.S. and Palestine, which lay bare a covert initiative, approved by Bush and implemented by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Deputy National Security Adviser Elliott Abrams, to provoke a Palestinian civil war. The plan was for forces led by Dahlan, and armed with new weapons supplied at America’s behest, to give Fatah the muscle it needed to remove the democratically elected Hamas-led government from power. (The State Department declined to comment.)
But the secret plan backfired, resulting in a further setback for American foreign policy under Bush. Instead of driving its enemies out of power, the U.S.-backed Fatah fighters inadvertently provoked Hamas to seize total control of Gaza.0 -
Benedict XVI wrote: »Alan Shatter gave a very good interview from Israel on this on Morning Ireland this morning.
I know people will lambaste him for being pro - Israel but he makes some good points.
Essentially by continuing to carry out rocket attacks on Israel, Hamas are demonstrating that they have no interest in a peace process.
http://www.rte.ie/radio1/morningireland/ Click on Thursday on the right hand side it is about 1ht 50min into the show
Hamas has offered a truce repeatedly and it gets ignored.
Khalid Mish’al of Hamas
http://www.david-morrison.org.uk/other-documents/mishal-today-20060208.htm
BBC Radio 4 Today, 8 February 2006
Hamas can then say its position and possibly give a long term truce with Israel, as Ahmed Yassin said. This is a position that Hamas could take, but not now. Only after Israel recognises the rights of the Palestinians, to show and confirm its willingness to withdraw to the 1967 borders.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/02/08/world/main1294380.shtml
CBS/AP) Khaled Meshaal, the political leader of the Palestinian militant group Hamas, said Wednesday that a long-term truce with Israel would be possible, if it accepted conditions including a return to its 1967 borders.
However, they rejected demands by their Egyptian hosts to recognize Israel, describing recognition as out of the question, reports CBS News Correspondent Robert Berger.
"Hamas will not recognize Israel," Mashaal said. "We will not give legitimacy to occupation."0 -
Benedict XVI wrote: »Alan Shatter gave a very good interview from Israel on this on Morning Ireland this morning.
I know people will lambaste him for being pro - Israel but he makes some good points.
Essentially by continuing to carry out rocket attacks on Israel, Hamas are demonstrating that they have no interest in a peace process.
http://www.rte.ie/radio1/morningireland/ Click on Thursday on the right hand side it is about 1ht 50min into the show
haha .. what a great case you make. This point has already been made and it is a ridiculous one. Got no thoughts on the matter of your own? Read any books on the subject lately? Or do you just like to regurgitate this drivel from the media to try and back up your biased point of view.0 -
haha .. what a great case you make. This point has already been made and it is a ridiculous one. Got no thoughts on the matter of your own? Read any books on the subject lately? Or do you just like to regurgitate this drivel from the media to try and back up your biased point of view.
Ok here are my thoughts
The Palestinian people elected a terrorist organization, Hamas.
Hamas launched rockets into Israel.
Israel retaliated to defend its people.
The fact that Palestinian people are being killed is good for Hamas propaganda.Or do you just like to regurgitate this drivel from the media.
Is this below not also drivel from the media?, it works both ways you knowHamas has offered a truce repeatedly and it gets ignored.
Khalid Mish’al of Hamas
http://www.david-morrison.org.uk/other-documents/mishal-today-20060208.htm
BBC Radio 4 Today, 8 February 2006
Hamas can then say its position and possibly give a long term truce with Israel, as Ahmed Yassin said. This is a position that Hamas could take, but not now. Only after Israel recognises the rights of the Palestinians, to show and confirm its willingness to withdraw to the 1967 borders.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/02/08/world/main1294380.shtml
CBS/AP) Khaled Meshaal, the political leader of the Palestinian militant group Hamas, said Wednesday that a long-term truce with Israel would be possible, if it accepted conditions including a return to its 1967 borders.
However, they rejected demands by their Egyptian hosts to recognize Israel, describing recognition as out of the question, reports CBS News Correspondent Robert Berger.
"Hamas will not recognize Israel," Mashaal said. "We will not give legitimacy to occupation."0 -
“Alan Shatter gave a very good interview from Israel on this on Morning Ireland this morning.
I know people will lambaste him for being pro - Israel but he makes some good points.”
Of course Alan Shatter (an excellent TD and family law expert) is pro Israel, he’s a Jew. I would find it strange if he wasn’t pro Israel. But because Alan Shatter is defending Israeli actions do not make their murderous pogrom against the Palestinian people right.0 -
Before it was bombed to **** by you-know-who, Lebanon - Beirut was a beautiful city.Benedict XVI wrote: »Quick question : Which of these countries would you prefer to live in as a white Christain ? (assumed most Irish people are Irish Christains)
Syria
Jordan
Egypt
Isreal
Lebanon
Iran
Iraq
the answer is obvious I'd think.
I have no idea what this has to do with the current discussion.0 -
Benedict XVI wrote: »Ok here are my thoughts
The Palestinian people elected a terrorist organization, Hamas.
Hamas launched rockets into Israel.
Israel retaliated to defend its people.
The fact that Palestinian people are being killed is good for Hamas propaganda.
Is this below not also drivel from the media?, it works both ways you know
A bit simplistic as it ignores the fact that Israel has turned Gaza and the West Bank in giant prisons and is squatting illegally on their land.
There are no rockets being fired from the West back yet 26 Palestinians have been killed there recently and hundreds of military operations and incursions into it.0 -
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:rolleyes: Are those events supposed to be in chronological order?Benedict XVI wrote: »The Palestinian people elected a terrorist organization, Hamas.
Hamas launched rockets into Israel.
Israel retaliated to defend its people.
:rolleyes: FFS. So, I suppose all Muslims support Hamas?bartholomewbinn wrote: »Of course Alan Shatter (an excellent TD and family law expert) is pro Israel, he’s a Jew.0
This discussion has been closed.
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