33 Palestians/8 Israelis murdered and how the media reacts

speedboatchase

Are you Palestinian? No, you're probably Irish like me. If someone posts a thread with the arrogant follow up line ".. and the world is silent" to once again infantalise the Palestinians and glorify what is an apalling struggle for both sides, I'm perfectly entitled to ask why no one can argue for the other side of the struggle.

I wanted to discuss this incident to hopefully come to a consensus that both sides should be treated fairly, especially when non-combatants are being killed

Mike...

snyper wrote: »

No. Every time a palestinian is killed there is thread of hate towards Jews and America

Essentially, it actually boils down to an Anti American agenda

Yeah, but it stem's from our original Anti-British hatred, we see the poor people of Palestine as similar to the Irish, The israeli's are seen as similar to the black and tans with their brutal tactic's and mass murder of innocent kids etc....I know both side's kill innocent people in case anyone thinks i am taking a certain viewpoint

AckwelFoley

i too am simply making an observation. I frankly couldnt give a bollox if they all went up in smoke... but i can recognise the bias when i see it.

speedboatchase

Is that not incredibly simplistic though? The Palestinians do not share our western culture in any way, but the Israeli's do. Irish people also turn a blind eye to Palestinian honour killings, digusting murderous propaganda on childrens tv and treatment of homosexuality, as many hypocrtical lefties would rather infantalise the poor children of the Middle East than question some of their arhaic practises and beliefs.

Would you like to see Israel wiped off the map and a fully Islamic, dictatorship Middle East? Would that be better for stability in the world? Or would you like to see progressive reforms towards treatment of women, homosexuals, universal suffrage etc in the area?

Personally I want to see an independent Palestine and Israel living in some semblance of harmony, but I know in the long run I would like to see moves towards democracy and progressive values in the region

wes

speedboatchase wrote: »

Is that not incredibly simplistic though? The Palestinians do not share our western culture in any way, but the Israeli's do.

Western nations don't create roads for the exclusive use of a particular ethnic group. Israel does. Western nations don't define themselves based on race/religion, but rather as secular. Israel defines itself as a Jewish state, which is a ethnic/religious definition, of course this ignores all the Palestinians who just so happen to be there. Thats just a couple example of how Israel and the Wests values differ.

Everything you accuse others of, can easily be directed right back at you. With your own simplistic view of Israel, sharing western culture. It doesn't, its a unique culture unto itself and oddly probably has more in common with Arab nationalism as opposed to modern western democratic states.

speedboatchase wrote: »

Would you like to see Israel wiped off the map and a fully Islamic, dictatorship Middle East? Would that be better for stability in the world? Or would you like to see progressive reforms towards treatment of women, homosexuals, universal suffrage etc in the area?

Well, Israel can't seem to treat Palestinians within in her own borders, citizens even as full citizens. So I hardly see that country being that great an example of anything other than how to treat ethnic minorities like crap and get away with it.

Still the things you mention certainly are good thing to want for the Middle East, but lets try and not paint Israel as a wonderful western oasis, when it discriminates against ethnic minorities so blatantly and people somehow call this progressive.

speedboatchase wrote: »

Personally I want to see an independent Palestine and Israel living in some semblance of harmony, but I know in the long run I would like to see moves towards democracy and progressive values in the region

You see Israel doesn't want a Palestinian state. There active illegal colonization effort is slowly making such a state impossible. What Israel wants is facts on the ground to strengthen there claims to more land.

Finally the murder of the students was an appalling act of terrorism. No excuse for such a crime.

lostexpectation

Is it not newsworthy when Israel suffers losses?

top story in every media

speedboatchase

No, the point I was making is that every single Palestinian loss is covered in biased detail on this board, yet no-one can express any sympathy when innocent Israel lives are taken.

Black Swan

This is a sad commentary on the state of world affairs, considering that the conflict has been going on since recorded history, continues today, with no foreseeable end in sight. This recent school tragedy got plenty of press in the USA, as you may have guessed, but the Bush administration is clueless as to how peace may be achieved (as usual).

Rolo Tomasi

Finally the murder of the students was an appalling act of terrorism. No excuse for such a crime.

@Speedboat - that makes you last post invalid!

The attack on the school was completely appalling.

lostexpectation

speedboatchase wrote: »

No, the point I was making is that every single Palestinian loss is covered in biased detail on this board, yet no-one can express any sympathy when innocent Israel lives are taken.

your was the first post on it, you didn't give anyone a chance.

wes

Incidentally this was being discussed in the other thread as well btw, here is a link:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055246351&page=8

So, to say the board has been silent on this is inaccurate as this was being discussed since yesterday and people have condemned it as well in the aforementioned thread. This whole thread seems to be a rather large straw man, constructed to show a bias perceived by the op. The simple fact is that this horrific act has been condemned by posters yesterday when it happened.

speedboatchase

I never used the word terrorism? That quote you attributed to me was from Wes.

Moriarty

Merging this thread with the "33 palastinian's killed.." thread. Thread title modified too.

kryogen

[QUOTE=Benedict XVI;55271084 Half the world ?, any offical stats please ?

And how is wanton destruction and butchery of the innocent "defending their country":[/QUOTE]

Who says they are inncoent ?, the people may have been invloved in attacks against Isreal, the kids may have grown up to be bombers.

If you ask me 33 of these scum dead is a good result.

keep up the good work Isreal[/QUOTE]

that is one of the most disgraceful comments ever to be not deleted from boards by a mod, why is advocating murder tolerated?

KyussBishop

Moriarty wrote: »

Merging this thread with the "33 palastinian's killed.." thread. Thread title modified too.

Title should read something closer to: "120 Palestians/8 Israelis murdered and how the media reacts"

Moriarty

Can I please remind everyone that on-thread discussion of moderation may get you banned? If you have a problem with a post, report it and leave it at that. If you have a problem with the moderation of the board, please create a thread in Feedback about it.

Now that you've had your warning, any more off-topic posts will be deleted and the poster will recieve a ban.

Playboy

speedboatchase wrote: »

Define Innocent?


Are you kidding me?! A teen in school is innocent, a newborn Israeli baby is innocent. Anyone who has nothing to do with further fuelling tensions between both sides is innocent! I thought we could at least agree on that? Anyone who takes the life of innocents in such a callous and calculated cannot convince me, or most people, that their cause is just.

If you want to blame someone for the deaths of those 'innocent' teenagers then why dont you ask their parents why they would recklessly put their childrens lives in danger by living in the occupied West Bank .. one of the two most dangerous places in the world for an Israeli to be.

I am not condoning the murder of these people. What I am trying to do is give you a little perspective. Imo aggressive Israeli expansionist settlers are understandbly not considered 'innocent' by the Palestinians.

Israel is to blame for those dead teenagers make no mistake about it. They should never have been there in the first place and the government and the families of the murdered were aware of the danger. As I said earlier these types of deaths only serve to help the Israeli propoganda machine paint the Palestinians as sub human terrorist scum that we all should be 'afraid' of. If Israel was concerned about its citizens and these parents truly concerned about their children then would have never been there in the first place. But you have to understand the stubborn mindset of these people. They are willing to die for a Greater Israel .. the government considers them as collateral damage in the struggle for a Greater Israel.

If Israel wanted peace then there would be peace. The thing is Israel wants Peace on its own terms where they hold all the cards and nothing else will do. The Peace process will never move forward because the Israelis wont make any real concessions to the Palestinians .. and we will continue to see violence like this enacted against its citizens by an increasingly desperate Palestinian population.

What I am trying to say is these types of incidents are only going to get worse. The reason they will get worse is because of Israel .. People can fool themselves into believing that Israel is the victim here but even a moderate investigation into the situation will show that to be the opposite of the case.

People such as yourself speedboatchase would really want to think long and hard about what they are defending here. Why do you think the majority of these board is biased? Do you really think that we are all Irish anti semites or something. Bias does exist and it exists for a very good reason. Just like I would be biased against Hitler, Stalin, Milošević etc I am biased against a cruel and racist regime.

Would you blame a Jew in WW2 for murdering 'innocent' Germans? There is of course a certain sympathy you have with the victims when they are innocent children or people. But you would be able to 'understand' why they did it .. a people driven to desperation through grief will do some horrible things. But at the end of the day Germany is to blame for any of its citizens because they began a war and a genocide on a innocent people.

Sesshoumaru

Playboy wrote: »

If you want to blame someone for the deaths of those 'innocent' teenagers then why dont you ask their parents why they would recklessly put their childrens lives in danger by living in the occupied West Bank .. one of the two most dangerous places in the world for an Israeli to be.

I am not condoning the murder of these people. What I am trying to do is give you a little perspective. Imo aggressive Israeli expansionist settlers are understandbly not considered 'innocent' by the Palestinians.

Israel is to blame for those dead teenagers make no mistake about it. They should never have been there in the first place and the government and the families of the murdered were aware of the danger. As I said earlier these types of deaths only serve to help the Israeli propoganda machine paint the Palestinians as sub human terrorist scum that we all should be 'afraid' of. If Israel was concerned about its citizens and these parents truly concerned about their children then would have never been there in the first place. But you have to understand the stubborn mindset of these people. They are willing to die for a Greater Israel .. the government considers them as collateral damage in the struggle for a Greater Israel.

If Israel wanted peace then there would be peace. The thing is Israel wants Peace on its own terms where they hold all the cards and nothing else will do. The Peace process will never move forward because the Israelis wont make any real concessions to the Palestinians .. and we will continue to see violence like this enacted against its citizens by an increasingly desperate Palestinian population.

What I am trying to say is these types of incidents are only going to get worse. The reason they will get worse is because of Israel .. People can fool themselves into believing that Israel is the victim here but even a moderate investigation into the situation will show that to be the opposite of the case.

People such as yourself speedboatchase would really want to think long and hard about what they are defending here. Why do you think the majority of these board is biased? Do you really think that we are all Irish anti semites or something. Bias does exist and it exists for a very good reason. Just like I would be biased against Hitler, Stalin, Milošević etc I am biased against a cruel and racist regime.

Would you blame a Jew in WW2 for murdering 'innocent' Germans? There is of course a certain sympathy you have with the victims when they are innocent children or people. But you would be able to 'understand' why they did it .. a people driven to desperation through grief will do some horrible things. But at the end of the day Germany is to blame for any of its citizens because they began a war and a genocide on a innocent people.

With logic like yours we are going to be at war for a very very long time.

Playboy

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

With logic like yours we are going to be at war for a very very long time.

Explain?

Yes I think they are going to be at war for a very long time. Unless Israel decides to retreat behind the 1967 borders, stops its aggresive expansion into Palestinian territory, and stops its ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people then we are going to see much worse than we have already seen. As the persecution gets worse and the Palestinians become more desperate we will acts of horrific violence from both sides only increase.

Its not the way I want it to be .. its the way it is and the way it will continue.

djpbarry

Playboy wrote: »

Define Innocent?

Lacking intent or capacity to injure or cause harm.

Playboy wrote: »

These guys are not thinking logically though .. they are desperate.

Fine. They're desperate, murdering, sub-human scum.

Playboy wrote: »

Israel is to blame for those dead teenagers make no mistake about it.

Absolutely ludicrous logic. You are absolving the gun-man of all blame?

irish_bob

lostexpectation wrote: »

Is it not newsworthy when Israel suffers losses?

top story in every media

to me its only fair that indie media like this is more sympathetic to the palestinians as corporate media is overwhelmingly pro israel

fly_agaric

Clytus wrote: »

Israel is perfectly within thier sovereign right to defend their country from attack by whatever means they deem effective.

How about this one...

The Palestinians are perfectly within their rights to strike back against their occupying power and its people by "whatever means they deem effective".

See, its just plain wrong isn't it? It serves as an excuse for atrocities, just like your statement.

Sesshoumaru

Playboy wrote: »

Explain?

Yes I think they are going to be at war for a very long time. Unless Israel decides to retreat behind the 1967 borders, stops its aggresive expansion into Palestinian territory, and stops its ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people then we are going to see much worse than we have already seen. As the persecution gets worse and the Palestinians become more desperate we will acts of horrific violence from both sides only increase.

Its not the way I want it to be .. its the way it is and the way it will continue.

Well I suppose I could say the Palestinians had it coming to them

twinytwo

McArmalite wrote: »

Israeli shelling of Gaza, 33 including eight children killed in 48 hours. Four of the children were murdered when an Isreali shell landed while playing football.

http://www.imemc.org/article/53129?language=en&print_page=true

These Isreali murdering bast@rds are the scum of the earth, the scum of the earth and nothing less. I suppose we'll have the usual hypocirtes on defending poor little Isreal and screaming anti semitism, anti semitism, anti semitism, anti semitism. And they get away with it because Isreal is the first state of America.

Firstly why do Isreal attack palenstine,hamas etc??.. because they constantly launch rockets into Isreal but when Isreal hits back people bitch.. Palenstine is not even a real country. i believe it was jordan but im open to correction on that opened its borders to Palenstinein refugees and they try to set up their own police, government etc in Jordan... let the day come when they land rockets on tel aviv and the Isreali government wipe them off the face of the earth

dlofnep

twinytwo wrote: »

Firstly why do Isreal attack palenstine,hamas etc??.. because they constantly launch rockets into Isreal but when Isreal hits back people bitch.. Palenstine is not even a real country. i believe it was jordan but im open to correction on that opened its borders to Palenstinein refugees and they try to set up their own police, government etc in Jordan... let the day come when they land rockets on tel aviv and the Isreali government wipe them off the face of the earth

And worst post of the day goes to..

wes

twinytwo wrote: »

Firstly why do Isreal attack palenstine,hamas etc??.. because they constantly launch rockets into Isreal but when Isreal hits back people bitch.. Palenstine is not even a real country. i believe it was jordan but im open to correction on that opened its borders to Palenstinein refugees and they try to set up their own police, government etc in Jordan... let the day come when they land rockets on tel aviv and the Isreali government wipe them off the face of the earth

So your pro-Genocide then?!?

BlaasForRafa

dlofnep wrote: »

And worst post of the day goes to..

you.

BlaasForRafa

wes wrote: »

So your pro-Genocide then?!?

Hamas and their Iranian sponsors are certainly pro-genocide anyway.

A Dub in Glasgo

Oh no, BFR goes all pro-genocidal and side deflections

sceptre

It always helps if people check the date of the last post before replying with a discussion-continuing retort rather than something new. It was in March. This is May. Thread closed.