Ireland recognizes Kosova

King.Genti · 07-03-2008 5:48pm

The Corinthian wrote: »

I don't deny that Kosovo may have a legitimate argument for statehood, or that it may achieve this regardless of the legality of the declaration of independence. But neither am I going to kid myself into believing that it is not as clear cut as the jingoistic picture you're painting of the future.

Croatian president cautions Serbia on Kosovo
(AFP)

5 March 2008

TOKYO - Croatian President Stipe Mesic warned on Wednesday that Serbia would only be hurting itself if it seeks reprisals against countries that recognise Kosovo.
Croatia has not recognised Kosovo’s independence from Serbia declared on February 17. But Croatia says it will follow the lead of the majority of the European Union, whose major players have given Kosovo the nod.
“We hope to believe that the independence of Kosovo is not going to cast a long shadow over the region,” Mesic told a news conference during a visit to Tokyo. “I hope Serbia would realise that they made policy mistakes in Kosovo, an autonomous area with many Albanians.”
“They should realise that any act against those who recognise an independent Kosovo would in return harm themselves,” he added.
Serbia has vowed never to accept the independence of Kosovo, which is overwhelmingly Albanian though Serbs consider it a cradle of their civilisation.
Russia has stood beside Serbia, with which it has historically enjoyed strong ties.
“I know there are countries that oppose Kosovo’s independence. But Kosovo is different, for example, from former Soviet republics,” Mesic said. “Under the constitution of the former Yugoslavia, Kosovo has rights like other republics.”
Croatia declared independence from Yugoslavia in 1991, unleashing a war with members of the Serb minority backed by Belgrade. Relations have gradually improved since the war ended in 1995.
Mesic said that Croatia, which is in talks to join the European Union, has been working to address its wartime legacy and was cooperating with the war crimes tribunal in The Hague.
“The goal of our nation-building efforts is to put democracy firmly in place, to protect ethnic minority and human rights, to build a sense of national unity and to depart from the past wartime problems to resume relations with former enemy states,” he said.

King.Genti · 07-03-2008 5:56pm

The Corinthian wrote: »

Kosovo could succeed, but it won't be easy and it's by no rmeans certain.

There will be no more violence in Serbia nor in Republic of Kosova. The citizens of Republic of Kosova, particularly, the minorities, in this case Serbs, are starting to realize that a new reality has occurred.
THe reason why there were so many wars since 1918 when Republic Kosova was incorporated in The Kingdom of Yugoslavia after the agreements reached at the Treaty of Versailles in Paris. Ever since then, read archives of new york times, i'll find you tons of articles displaying and describing genocidal crimes against Albanian populace. We were held on the ground until 1999. There was no chance to live under serb. No chance.
If you want peace, the kind you're seeking, you better accept and understand the reality. The Republic of Kosova is the key of this stability that Europe and the United States of America is seeking and aspiring for.

As for the future and successes, not one's successes are certain, surely possible!

Socrates

shqipshume · 07-03-2008 6:36pm

How well are they doing. Excellent i would say.

27 countries in 19 days:) (16 EU)
2 more been processed
Norway
Lithuania(EU)

Announcement from
Bulgaria(EU)
Hungary
Czech republic
so i think i count 20 EU members ?

Peace for all in Kosova

mick72 · 07-03-2008 8:30pm

King Genti, please, spare us from your lecture about international law.
You have every right to be so optimistic about Kosovo's future; TBH I don't think so.

UN member states are supposed to recognize the territorial sovereignty of other member states. (See, e.g., UN Charter, Art. 2 ("All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations. "). Only Sebia is a member of the UN, not Kosovo by any means. UN has 192 members including every recognised independent state. Kosovo is not on that list.

In regards to UN Resolution 1244, I cannot see why you are so adamant not to accept it the way it is. The main effects of this resolution was to place Kosovo under interim UN administration (UNMIK), authorise NATO-led peacekeeping force, encourage local self-government, reaffirm sovereignty and territorial integrity of Federal Republic of Yugoslavia and the other states of the region, assure the safe return of all refugees, require the KLA to demilitarize and Serbian forces to withdraw.

The resolution is as it is and it cannot be changed.

King.Genti · 07-03-2008 8:58pm

mick72 wrote: »

King Genti, please, spare us from your lecture about international law.
You have every right to be so optimistic about Kosovo's future; TBH I don't think so.

UN member states are supposed to recognize the territorial sovereignty of other member states. (See, e.g., UN Charter, Art. 2 ("All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations. "). Only Sebia is a member of the UN, not Kosovo by any means. UN has 192 members including every recognised independent state. Kosovo is not on that list.

In regards to UN Resolution 1244, I cannot see why you are so adamant not to accept it the way it is. The main effects of this resolution was to place Kosovo under interim UN administration (UNMIK), authorise NATO-led peacekeeping force, encourage local self-government, reaffirm sovereignty and territorial integrity of Federal Republic of Yugoslavia and the other states of the region, assure the safe return of all refugees, require the KLA to demilitarize and Serbian forces to withdraw.

The resolution is as it is and it cannot be changed.

Kosovo has right to independence: Croatia
March 05, 2008 6:57 AM TOKYO, March 5-(Kyodo), Visiting Croatian President Stjepan Mesic dismissed concerns Wednesday that Kosovo's independence will trigger problems for countries with similar autonomous regions and stressed that Kosovo is entitled to declare its independence.
"Kosovo is different from autonomous regions in other countries because it is one that was given the same powers as other republics in the former Yugoslavia," Mesic told a news conference in Tokyo. "It is wrong to think that because of Kosovo's becoming independent, the same thing will happen in other countries with similar issues." Stjepan Mesic was the last president of Tito's Yugoslavia in 1991.
"I hope it (Serbia) will realize that Kosovo's declaration of independence to separate from it is because of the mistaken policies that Serbia has taken against the Albanian Kosovo up to now," the president said.
Stressing that it is possible for the Serbians to build good relations with the Albanians, the 73-year-old president also said that Serbia should apologize for what it has done in Kosovo.
Mesic, who held talks with Japanese Prime Minister Yasuo Fukuda later in the evening, said Croatia is expecting to join the North Atlantic Treaty Organization this spring and to become a member of the European Union by 2010.

ACP Copyrights

The Corinthian · 08-03-2008 11:40am

What is this? If you put things in a large enough font we'll believe them?

King.Genti wrote: »

There will be no more violence in Serbia nor in Republic of Kosova. The citizens of Republic of Kosova, particularly, the minorities, in this case Serbs, are starting to realize that a new reality has occurred.

With all due respect no one is simply going to take your word for that.

THe reason why there were so many wars since 1918 when Republic Kosova was incorporated in The Kingdom of Yugoslavia after the agreements reached at the Treaty of Versailles in Paris.

Incorrect. The Kosovo region was most recently annexed by Serbia from the Ottoman Empire as a result of the first Balkan war in 1912. Historically Kosovo had been under Serbian control on other occasions too - as far back as the ninth century.

You seem to have a very poor knowledge of your own history.

If you want peace, the kind you're seeking, you better accept and understand the reality. The Republic of Kosova is the key of this stability that Europe and the United States of America is seeking and aspiring for.

I understand your 'reality', but my point has only been that it is not as straightforward or certain as your rather nationalistic interpretation.

As for the future and successes, not one's successes are certain, surely possible!
Socrates

Where did Socrates say this?

mick72 · 08-03-2008 12:00pm

King Genti,

first of all I am not blind. What Croatian president is saying is simply not true. Why did Croatia not recognize Kosovo straight away, but is waiting on majority of the EU states to recognise it first? Croatia will recognise Kosovo for only one reason: to help its bid for eventual EU membership.

As far as I know Kosovo declared independence 15 or so years ago, and no one but Albania recognised it. If they have a right to do so now, why did they not have the same right 15 years ago if we are to follow your logic in terms of Kosovo status within Yugoslavia.

While it is true to say that Kosovo did have its representative on the federal level, it is also true that Yugoslav Constitution stated that Kosovo and Metohija ( as it was called) was a province within Serbia.

Mr Mesic's Croatia expelled about half a million ethnic Serbs from Croatia since they also wanted to exercise their right of self-determination. Even though Krajina was under the UN exclusive protection, it did not stop Croatia from launching their military offensive to get rid of the Serbs there.

regedit · 08-03-2008 3:14pm

mick72 wrote: »

King Genti,

first of all I am not blind. What Croatian president is saying is simply not true. Why did Croatia not recognize Kosovo straight away, but is waiting on majority of the EU states to recognise it first? Croatia will recognise Kosovo for only one reason: to help its bid for eventual EU membership.

As far as I know Kosovo declared independence 15 or so years ago, and no one but Albania recognised it. If they have a right to do so now, why did they not have the same right 15 years ago if we are to follow your logic in terms of Kosovo status within Yugoslavia.

While it is true to say that Kosovo did have its representative on the federal level, it is also true that Yugoslav Constitution stated that Kosovo and Metohija ( as it was called) was a province within Serbia.

Mr Mesic's Croatia expelled about half a million ethnic Serbs from Croatia since they also wanted to exercise their right of self-determination. Even though Krajina was under the UN exclusive protection, it did not stop Croatia from launching their military offensive to get rid of the Serbs there.

Again incorrect and in line with the now famous statement of your ex president (Quote from "Deobe"(Divisions)1961.Volume I,page 135: "A lie,trait of our patriotism" “We lie to deceive ourselves, to console others, we lie for mercy, we lie to fight fear, to encourage ourselves, to hide our and somebody else’s misery. We lie for love and honesty. We lie because of freedom. Lying is a trait of our patriotism and the proof of our innate intelligence. We lie creatively, imaginatively and inventively.").

In the 1974 Constitution, Tito foresaw that the Serb nationalism was about to destroy the country, he instructed Edvard Kardelj, the maker of the constitution to change many things. This was the first time citizens of now Bosnia and Herzegovina were allowed to call themselves Bosnians. Before that it was either Serbs, Croats or Yugoslav's). In the same constitution, Kosova (never mention of Metohija untill Milosevic and his deranged followers came to power)was declared a constitutive part of the Federation.
That is was Stjepan Mesic was stating. Mesic is a lawyer by trade and an ex Communist so he knows what he is talking. Croatia has not recognised Kosova (even though they will do so within the month-as sated by its Prime Minister yesterday, the 7 March 2008). They have not recognised Kosova up to now because of the fact that the Serb minority parties are part of the ruling coalition and Croatian businessmen have invested huge capital into Serbia.
So, the term Metohija was not mentioned in the 1974 Constitution.
Croatia had to launch a military operation in 1995 as Serbs had declared some kind of autonomous region (parallel state) and were causing huge disruptions. They would have not been able to manage this if not helped by the Serbo-Cetnik army and paramilitaries -again financed by the Serb state. They did the same in Croatia, Bosnia and attempted it in Kosova where they crushed their teeth and will not raise for the next few decades! Serbs in Croatia (just to get back to them) did not have any right to self determination as they were not guaranteed anything such under the Constitution. They were not expelled but they listened to their political and military leaders and left on the dawn of the offensive.
You do not seem to exercise any self-restrain in stating that it was your nation that committed mass crimes in 3 wars in the ex state.

King.Genti · 08-03-2008 5:59pm

mick72 wrote: »

King Genti,

first of all I am not blind. What Croatian president is saying is simply not true. Why did Croatia not r

Stjepan Mesic was the former President of Tito's Yugoslavia in 1991.
How could a former president of the country i lived in, can be wrong?
A lawyer, a constitutional lawyer, acknowledged by many lawyers of the EU.

They will recognize us as very soon.
Serbia is an aggressive terrorist state that does not respect nor understand law and order!
Burning embassies is a great example of what type of rogue government Serbia has. In shambles, in despair is that state of serbia. shall we have pitty for the monsters who still suck the blood of the quarter million innocent people?

CCCP^ · 09-03-2008 2:43am

I wish I could say everything will turn out okey-dokey, but this being the former Yugoslavia, rarely things work out like that. I admit I don't have much of a clue to Balkan politics. But if they (Kosovo) can't get into the UN because of Russia and China, well then it won't be up to much. I think it'll join into some union with Albania.

mick72 · 09-03-2008 10:05am

President? Is that the one that said "I have fulfilled my task. Yugoslavia is no more".

Regedit, you can leave the quotes out as they are not legally binding. The Yugoslav constitution of 1974 does place 'two autonomus provinces within territory of Socialist epublic of Serbia'. It also says that 'republics boundaries are not to be altered without reublic's exclusive consent'.

Lots of bull you're talking here trying to change historical documents. No, of course you are not going to become a member of United Nations. End of.

The Corinthian · 09-03-2008 12:01pm

King.Genti wrote: »

Serbia is an aggressive terrorist state that does not respect nor understand law and order!
Burning embassies is a great example of what type of rogue government Serbia has. In shambles, in despair is that state of serbia. shall we have pitty for the monsters who still suck the blood of the quarter million innocent people?

That kind of sentiment pretty much negates your earlier claims of the minority Serbian population being treated fairly in Kosovo.

I'm sorry to say that between your nationalist propaganda and your factual inaccuracies (be they the result of ignorance or dishonesty on your part), that I believe that the situation in Kosovo is far more likely to get a lot worse before it gets better. Ethnic violence is more than likely TBH.

regedit · 09-03-2008 5:31pm

The Corinthian wrote: »

That kind of sentiment pretty much negates your earlier claims of the minority Serbian population being treated fairly in Kosovo.

I'm sorry to say that between your nationalist propaganda and your factual inaccuracies (be they the result of ignorance or dishonesty on your part), that I believe that the situation in Kosovo is far more likely to get a lot worse before it gets better. Ethnic violence is more than likely TBH.

Is these a single documented case of abuse toward a Serb since Kosova declared its independence.
Based on what do you make your claims on the potential for violence. Is it probably that you also think that Albanians are people with tails (like the Serb propaganda portaried them about 100 years ago) and as such second class citizens? Is it probably the fact that you are a moderator here and know more than we, the plain Joe Bloggs do?
Do you know how many albanians were mistreated in Serbia since Kosova declared its independence? I am sure you do not. Check some relevant sources (independent should I say) and you will see. The Serb nation is nt genocidal but they have a genocidal Government. The people voted for the Governmet too... They voted for Milosevic even though they knew what he did. They voted for the Radicals even though they knew that Seselj and his followers were ultra nationalists!

mick72 · 09-03-2008 7:22pm

Based on over 150,000 Serbs that had to leave Kosovo after 1999.

Based on March 2004 and attacks on Serbs over there. Burned houses and churches.

The Corinthian · 09-03-2008 8:16pm

regedit wrote: »

Based on what do you make your claims on the potential for violence.

The recent history of the region.

Is it probably that you also think that Albanians are people with tails (like the Serb propaganda portaried them about 100 years ago) and as such second class citizens? Is it probably the fact that you are a moderator here and know more than we, the plain Joe Bloggs do?

What age are you?

oscarBravo · 09-03-2008 8:58pm

regedit wrote: »

Is it probably the fact that you are a moderator here and know more than we, the plain Joe Bloggs do?

He's not a moderator here. Stick to the facts of the topic if you want discuss it.

regedit · 09-03-2008 9:22pm

mick72 wrote: »

Based on over 150,000 Serbs that had to leave Kosovo after 1999.

Based on March 2004 and attacks on Serbs over there. Burned houses and churches.

Tit for tat is what you want to go for.
1.3 mil Albanians had to leave Koova in 1999-if you want to look at the things that way.
I will admit that there were cases of violence towards Serbs (by admitting this, I am not doiscovering warm water) and I condemn that-even though I am not a citizen of Kosova.
At the same time you should admit that life was made impossible for Kosovar Albanians in the past 20 or so years!
It is not true that 150.000 Serbs left Kosova in 1999 as this would make the population much bigger than it ever has in Kosova.
My point was for the both of you that since the declaration of independence, not a single Serb suffered harm!

regedit · 09-03-2008 9:25pm

mick72 wrote: »

of course you are not going to become a member of United Nations. End of.

Do I sense some anger here...

Tea drinker · 09-03-2008 10:08pm

King.Genti wrote: »

You don't seem to understand that Serbia had two options at the time.
A full scale invasion of 200,000 troops or accept the terms presented by NATO.
Too bad it didn't happen. Today, it'd be only Republic of Shumadia or Republic of Begradski Pashalluk.

Republic of Kosova is the newest state of Europe. The newest democracy in the world.

Everyone is happy

I don't think you read the right as far as I am concerned.

Slovakia will recognize it in within 4 months. Mark my words
Romania will do as well. Romania will lose more than gain. They got the Russians at the front yard, will be asking Uncle Sam for help. Don't worry about it.

Spain, they will wait until their general elections in march. they don't to spark a political havoc. Communist party of Spain runs the country.
Spain will recognize us. Madrid 's office in Prishtine has sent a letter to the President of Republic of Kosova.

Unfortunately, Serbia is not a democratic country. It does control media, it threatens press, it murders journalists, murders any democratic value.

If you keep your last hopes in Romania,Spain and Slovakia, you better start preparing yourself psycho-socially before you start burning down their embassies as well when they will do the recognition.

It's healthier for you to concede before the TRUTH and REALITY.

Serbia will recognize Republic of Kosova as well, it's gonna be your last news you will hear.

Have a good day!:)

Well, Serbia refused to accept NATO troops THROUGHOUT it's territory, that's why they were bombed for 78 days, Milosevic agreed to evberything else at Rambouillet, but "they needed a good bombing" so yeah they got it. After all the deaths, They still don't have NATO troops in entirety of their territory, what NATO had wanted. Do you think Iraq needed a good bombing? Well they got it.

IMHO You are wrong about no free press in Serbia.
B92 had a long history of opposing Milosevic, have you looked at this site? It makes no attempt to hide Serb attrocities.
http://www.b92.net/eng/

Tea drinker · 09-03-2008 10:38pm

regedit wrote: »

Tit for tat is what you want to go for.
1.3 mil Albanians had to leave Koova in 1999-if you want to look at the things that way.
I will admit that there were cases of violence towards Serbs (by admitting this, I am not doiscovering warm water) and I condemn that-even though I am not a citizen of Kosova.
At the same time you should admit that life was made impossible for Kosovar Albanians in the past 20 or so years!
It is not true that 150.000 Serbs left Kosova in 1999 as this would make the population much bigger than it ever has in Kosova.
My point was for the both of you that since the declaration of independence, not a single Serb suffered harm!

Fair play - like the warm water comment

This Canadian General who served in Bosnia during the conflict (with our own Colm Doyle) Claims 200,000 serbs were ejected, at the time of writing.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1112681/posts

A case in point was the latest crisis that exploded on March 15. The media reported that four Albanian boys had been chased into the river Ibar in Mitrovica by at least two Serbs and a dog (the dog's ethnic affiliation was not reported). Three of the boys drowned and one escaped to the other side. Immediately, thousands of Albanians mobilized and concentrated in the area of the divided city. Attacks on Serbs took place throughout the province resulting in an estimated 30 killed and 600 wounded. Thirty Serbian Christian Orthodox churches and monasteries were destroyed, more than 300 homes were burnt to the ground and six Serbian villages cleansed of their occupants. One hundred and fifty international peacekeepers were injured.
Totally ignored in North America were the numerous statements from impartial sources that said there was no incident between the Serbs, the dog and the Albanian boys. NATO Police spokesman Derek Chappell stated on March 16 that it was "definitely not true" that the boys had been chased into the river by Serbs. Chappell went on to say that the surviving boy had told his parents that they had entered the river alone and that three of his friends had been swept away by the current. Admiral Gregory Johnson, the overall NATO commander, further stated that the ensuing clashes were "orchestrated and well-planned ethnic cleansing" by the Kosovo-Albanians. Those Serbs forced to leave joined the 200,000 who had been cleansed from the province since NATO's "humanitarian" bombing in 1999. The '"cleansees" have become very effective "cleansers." In the same week a number of individuals posing as Serbs ambushed and killed a UN policeman and his local police partner. During the firefight one of them was wounded which caused an immediate switch from Serbian to Albanian as he screamed, "I've been hit"! The UN pursued the attackers and tracked them to an Albanian-run farm where they discovered weapons and the wounded Albanian who had died from his wounds. Four Albanians were arrested. Once again, the ambush had been reported in the United States but not the follow-up which clearly indicated yet another orchestrated provocation by the Albanian terrorists.

mick72 · 11-03-2008 12:17am

regedit wrote: »

Do I sense some anger here...

God love you, your senses are perfect. The issue remains; it does indeed.

It's not true that 150,000 Serbs fled Kosovo; they walked out of it as happy as ever. On the way out, they probably set the churches on fire themselves.

shqipshume · 13-03-2008 5:58pm

mick72 wrote: »

Based on over 150,000 Serbs that had to leave Kosovo after 1999.

Based on March 2004 and attacks on Serbs over there. Burned houses and churches.

Hey u know what those people were murdered and raped and i think pent up anger and trauma was relieved in the actions they carried out after,At least they werent burying bodies and trying 2 hide the evidence of Babies and little boys and girls that had been murdered :mad: Trucks with bodies caught going over the border, unable to identify ur children or husband or brother mother or brother

u want to throw dirt i will 2!

That is not what this thread is about, this is about Kosova independence they got it and they will do good with it. Mark my words Albanians will work and grow and if Serbians in Kosova except it and move on and decide to work together.maybe one day they will be like Ireland and England.It will take a long time for the wounds to heal.
It was not a war it was a massacre.:(

P.s And all the Albanians from Kosova jumped on planes so delighted to be dumped in mosney and such places in different countires?

Tea drinker · 14-03-2008 7:38pm

shqipshume wrote: »

Hey u know what those people were murdered and raped and i think pent up anger and trauma was relieved in the actions they carried out after,At least they werent burying bodies and trying 2 hide the evidence of Babies and little boys and girls that had been murdered :mad: Trucks with bodies caught going over the border, unable to identify ur children or husband or brother mother or brother u want to throw dirt i will 2!

I'm glad they could relieve their pent up anger by killing a few vulnerable people, sounds fairly reasonable. :rolleyes:
Regarding the bodies in trucks, yeah, but it's the SERBS who found out about those trucks and investigated it. Even ongoing attrocities from the Albanian community are not investigated, or are swept under the carpet by NATO.

shqipshume wrote: »

That is not what this thread is about, this is about Kosova independence they got it and they will do good with it. Mark my words Albanians will work and grow and if Serbians in Kosova except it and move on and decide to work together.maybe one day they will be like Ireland and England.It will take a long time for the wounds to heal.
It was not a war it was a massacre.:(

P.s And all the Albanians from Kosova jumped on planes so delighted to be dumped in mosney and such places in different countires?

Well, how they got their independance seems to be a bit wishy washy, serb attrocties can be discussed, but when albanian attrocities are discussed you imply we shouldn't discuss it. At the end of the day I think unless Kosovo is joined to Albania it is completely screwed, totally unviable. Another international fudge in the Balkans, fixing nothing.
But as there are political structures in place now these guys will not want to give that up. There is nothing to celebrate here, unless you celebrate mediocrity.

Now we have a nice precedent set (again) to ignore international law.
I'm sorry mosney didn't live up to their dreams, but short term refugees just need somewhere safe, while being provided for, not a hollywood lifestyle.

shqipshume · 15-03-2008 4:42pm

Tea drinker wrote: »

I'm glad they could relieve their pent up anger by killing a few vulnerable people, sounds fairly reasonable. :rolleyes:
Regarding the bodies in trucks, yeah, but it's the SERBS who found out about those trucks and investigated it. Even ongoing attrocities from the Albanian community are not investigated, or are swept under the carpet by NATO.[qoute/]

First off blah blah blah i am sick of ur anti Albanian campaign,

For all who want the truth read read read

2nd off Serbs swapped clothes of murdered Albanians to confuse investigators
"I want to show you something," he said. And we set off for Glogovac and a rain-soaked, muddy hill above a ferro-nickel mine. There were 50 people standing there, amid row after row of graves. Relatives, mothers and fathers, identifying trousers and shirts and belts. "There are 118 bodies here," the policeman said. "We've numbered them all and matched the clothes in the bags to the bodies. But, you know something very strange? Some of the clothes the bodies were dressed in didn't match the wounds. We found men with one bullet wound wearing a shirt with two bullet holes - and men with two bullet wounds in clothes with only one bullet hole." I asked the policeman why their killers would do such a thing. He shrugged. "To make it difficult for us?" he asked.

All this I reported in The Independent back in November, 1999. But neither investigators nor journalists could yet grasp the extent of the cover- up, the deliberate, pre-planned attempt to confuse the war crimes men. The Warwickshire cop only suspected the truth. This was long before the corpse-stuffed refrigerated lorry was found in the Danube and the mass grave of Batajnica was opened. And I recall Mr Krasniqi, back in October of 1999, talking about 2,000 Albanian prisoners still "missing" in Serbia. Were they missing. Or were they secretly buried?

small paragraph of the link below

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20010718/ai_n14415919

Well, how they got their independance seems to be a bit wishy washy, serb attrocties can be discussed, but when albanian attrocities are discussed you imply we shouldn't discuss it. At the end of the day I think unless Kosovo is joined to Albania it is completely screwed, totally unviable. Another international fudge in the Balkans, fixing nothing.
But as there are political structures in place now these guys will not want to give that up. There is nothing to celebrate here, unless you celebrate mediocrity.
Now we have a nice precedent set (again) to ignore international law.
I'm sorry mosney didn't live up to their dreams, but short term refugees just need somewhere safe, while being provided for, not a hollywood lifestyle.

I was referring to the smart comment as if Serbians lives were destroyed when they left Kosova.As if Albanians wanted to leave their country:mad: Point taken?

And u know what i have nothing futher 2 say 2 u cause u are anti Albanian no matter what and ur comments are nothing more then a idol attempt to discredit them.And it will not work!

Urime Kosova and Albanians everywhere :cool: Tu dua shume

Tea drinker · 16-03-2008 9:25pm

No mention of the 3000 missing Serbs in your post.
As for your comment that I am anti Albanian, I don't have to defend myself from this nonsense. You justified killing innocent Serbs by saying the Kosovo Albanians needed to release their pent up anger. This is blatantly anti Serb, yet you accuse me of bias.
You simply cannot accept that some Albanian hands drip with blood, just like some of the Serbs, and thats how you got "independance".

Lets face it, how independant is Kosova? You declare indepedance but will be wholly DEPENDANT on aid from west for many many years until such time as you can be joined to Albania. Even now Serbia still supplies your electricity.

For the Kosovo Albanians I wish them well and success. But I can voice my opinion that it won't be all rosy, and hasn't been. It would do a lot for my respect of Albanian if they owned up to some of the attrocities and put the perpetrators away.

shqipshume · 16-03-2008 9:33pm

Tea drinker wrote: »

No mention of the 3000 missing Serbs in your post.
As for your comment that I am anti Albanian, I don't have to defend myself from this nonsense. You justified killing innocent Serbs by saying the Kosovo Albanians needed to release their pent up anger. This is blatantly anti Serb, yet you accuse me of bias.
You simply cannot accept that some Albanian hands drip with blood, just like some of the Serbs, and thats how you got "independance".

Lets face it, how independant is Kosova? You declare indepedance but will be wholly DEPENDANT on aid from west for many many years until such time as you can be joined to Albania. Even now Serbia still supplies your electricity.

For the Kosovo Albanians I wish them well and success. But I can voice my opinion that it won't be all rosy, and hasn't been. It would do a lot for my respect of Albanian if they owned up to some of the attrocities and put the perpetrators away.

And no where did i justify killing anyone i was talking about the building's.

Show me the link from outside sources not Serbian and not Julia gorin.

Also as Ireland did got in so much depth all countries need to start somewhere?
They will make good!

I want peace for all and i have only posted facts to counter the anti Albanian posts,
I have yet to see Serbians admit anything they make to many excuses for what happened and try shift the blame,
The truth speaks for itself and all truths come out in the end.
I am Irish not Albanian!

And we all want peace for everyone in the region

kreuzberger · 18-03-2008 9:01pm

turgon wrote: »

"The reality is that the legacy of the conflict of the late 1990s made the return of Serb dominion in Kosovo unthinkable"
On the bal, dermot.

To all those anti kosovars here, would you have Ireland put back under the brutal regime of the Brits???Remember the black and tans?? Because Serbia didnt treat Kosovo any better whatsoever.

Give the Dublin governemnt enough time and theyll be erecting monuments to the Black and Tans also .

Dermot Ahern and all the other members of his crooked party were quite happy along with every other politician in Ireland to give up all claims to his own countrys territory in the north east to the Brits rather than persue their claim to their own countrys territory at the United nations under international law . Which was clarified in the McGimpsey case as a constitutional imperative .

Previous governemnts were more than happy to abandon Irish citizens in the north to what ever fate awaited them under the mercies of British rule . More than happy to do so . As they historically couldnt give a stuff about their own citizens , whether being pogrommed and massacred in Belfast or being bombed in Dublin Monaghan its unlikely any great concern for the welfare of Kosovar Albanians played the remotest part in their decision . Their desire to please Britian and the United states is what motivated them , just as it did in their support for the criminal war in Iraq and the decision to allow their own nation to be carved up without any counter claim to sovereignty over their own nation . They are crawlers . Crawlers whove put my planned summer vacation to Belgrade in serious stick too . Im quite annoyed .

Whilst its true serbia has behaved badly in the tragic wars which have plagued the balkans either international law is upheld or we have war everywhere . The vast majorities of countries in the world are refusing to recognise Kosovo as a nation on the basis its a breach of international law . International law has been broken on this occasion and as usual the Dublin governemnt is only acting as Britains and the United states poodle . This will lead to anarchy and not just in Kosovo and serbia .

Over 200,000 serbs have been ethnically cleansed from Kosovo since 1998 . No sign of NATO bombing the albanians . At least not on purpose anyway .

therewillbe · 18-03-2008 9:23pm

Independant ! bad idea .a large can of worms has just opened. The Basques ,Catalans .Then a few russian satelite states .Good for who ?

kreuzberger · 18-03-2008 9:27pm

King.Genti wrote: »

Burning embassies is a great example of what type of rogue government Serbia has.

Ahem..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/1972/feb/03/northernireland.bloodysunday

kreuzberger · 18-03-2008 9:31pm

therewillbe wrote: »

Independant ! bad idea .a large can of worms has just opened. The Basques ,Catalans .Then a few russian satelite states .Good for who ?

lets not even get into issues like sri lanka , Nigeria , Kurdistan , transniestra . Or the fact that the US and Britian can encourage regional , sectarian and tribal seperatism in oil rich regions , Venezuela for example ,in order to destabilise sovereign governemnts they dont like and accuse them of oppression . And then bomb them and invade . And then theres their refual to accept Chechnyan independence .

chaos will ensue on a global scale .

Ireland recognizes Kosova

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