Ireland recognizes Kosova

shqipshume

These post hold no water trying to twist the truth as per usual,

Still waiting for these links:rolleyes: They were ethnically cleansed w.e show me the mass graves of Serbians been ethnically cleansed in Kosova? there is none except the fake pictures Serbians claimed were Serb but in actual fact are Albanian victims.
I have shown my proof were is ur's?

Now this is a thread about the facts Kosova has Independence and i wish them all the most happy future

regedit

Aimed at the Serb posters here:
Do you acknowledge that Kosova Albanians were massacred then sent to Serbia (Kladovo, Batajnica etc) and buried in mass graves. Some trucks were dumped in the Danube river and the extremities floated out a few years later to the surface. Do you acknowledge that Serbs committed mass crimes in Racak and many many other villages. Are you aware that bodies were dumped in the Trepca smelter and burned! All this happened in 1999. I am sure you know this well but one thing is interesting about many Serbs, they live surrounded by myths. they think that Bosniaks bombed themselves in Sarajevo, that 8000 men and children in Srebrenica committed suicide, that Vukovar was shelled by Croats themselves (to speed-up recognition (1991)), that they shot down 100+ enemy aircraft during the NATO campaign, that Kosovar Albanians orchestrated the murders of over 10.000 people only during 1999, that they won the Kosova battle a few centuries ago and that they are a heavenly nation.
There was a poll conducted by one of the faculties in belgrade a few years ago about the crime where most participant justified the crimes committed by serbs by saying that this was done in passion and that the intent was not to commit the crime!
They believe that they are a heroic nation while they lost every war they started. That is why other nations (even Montenegrin's who are very close to Serbs) did not want to live with them any longer.

This is a quote of their most prominent intellectual:
A lie,trait of our patriotism" “We lie to deceive ourselves, to console others, we lie for mercy, we lie to fight fear, to encourage ourselves, to hide our and somebody else’s misery. We lie for love and honesty. We lie because of freedom. Lying is a trait of our patriotism and the proof of our innate intelligence. We lie creatively, imaginatively and inventively."

Japan and Canada recognised Kosova yesterday. Croatia, Hungary and Bulgaria will apparently recognise it today. All these are democratic countries. Do ye think that they would proceed and recognise the independence if they thought it was not justified!

andala

What I cannot really understand is why Albanians stayed in Serbia (Kosovo) if they were so persecuted there. Couldn't they go back to their homeland?

As for recognising Kosovo by most EU countries, you can't be naive enough to think it was because they support illegal independence declarations of imaginary nations. Most of them just followed the majority of EU that had followed US. And US business there is obvious.

And what's happening there now? Anybody expected Serbs to cordially welcome new nation born on the land stolen from them? I wonder what kind of deal US had with Albanians to support violation of international laws.

shqipshume

andala wrote: »

What I cannot really understand is why Albanians stayed in Serbia (Kosovo) if they were so persecuted there. Couldn't they go back to their homeland?

As for recognising Kosovo by most EU countries, you can't be naive enough to think it was because they support illegal independence declarations of imaginary nations. Most of them just followed the majority of EU that had followed US. And US business there is obvious.

And what's happening there now? Anybody expected Serbs to cordially welcome new nation born on the land stolen from them? I wonder what kind of deal US had with Albanians to support violation of international laws.

Why should the true people go to their homeland when Dardania is their true homeland.
Dardania is the true name of the land!They were there before the Serbians!
It was not stolen! they lost all rights to hold someone else's land thru the atrocities they brought upon Albanian's.

regedit

andala wrote: »

What I cannot really understand is why Albanians stayed in Serbia (Kosovo) if they were so persecuted there. Couldn't they go back to their homeland?

As for recognising Kosovo by most EU countries, you can't be naive enough to think it was because they support illegal independence declarations of imaginary nations. Most of them just followed the majority of EU that had followed US. And US business there is obvious.

And what's happening there now? Anybody expected Serbs to cordially welcome new nation born on the land stolen from them? I wonder what kind of deal US had with Albanians to support violation of international laws.

Andala,
Serbs came to the Balkan's at the end of VII century (AD to be precise). Albanians share a common trait with the Ilyrsa who were there always.
On the question why did the Kosovars stay so long under Serbia, the answer is because the Communist state (ruled by the Serb majority in the military and police) made this an impossible task. the opression was great.

andala

Oh, I see. Thanks guys for explanations. There's just one thing bugging me now. Do you think Americans should be expelled from the US as they came there no sooner than in 15th century (or even later)?

How far back can you trace your origins and demand that this land is given "back" to you. Borders have been changing all the time around the world. It has been proved in one of the threads here that Kosovo is an illegal creation according to international law. Besides, if you want to dig in history. There has never been a nation like Kosovars, has there? (even my spell-check doesn't recognise this word )

shqipshume

andala wrote: »

Oh, I see. Thanks guys for explanations. There's just one thing bugging me now. Do you think Americans should be expelled from the US as they came there no sooner than in 15th century (or even later)?

How far back can you trace your origins and demand that this land is given "back" to you. Borders have been changing all the time around the world. It has been proved in one of the threads here that Kosovo is an illegal creation according to international law. Besides, if you want to dig in history. There has never been a nation like Kosovars, has there? (even my spell-check doesn't recognise this word )

Spell check Dardania with Google PIK...........:rolleyes:

The Corinthian

andala wrote: »

Do you think Americans should be expelled from the US as they came there no sooner than in 15th century (or even later)?

I hope not - they might come back to Europe then...

Seriously though. One can argue ad nausem on this issue, but the reality is this:

• Whether or not the declaration was illegal is irrelevant in the eyes of history. That means that legal or not it will succeed or not in the long term based upon economic and political means.
• Whether Albanian or Serbian it is evident (even from this thread) that they're going to continue killing each other.
• Presently, Kosovo has a basket case economy which is entirely dependent on aid. Additionally its security is entirely dependent on NATO and the EU.

No matter what happens in terms of sovereignty, it appears that we have a brand new banana republic in Europe where bloodshed is almost certain to follow. Even Somalia seems to have a better chance at statehood, FFS.

I remember a cartoon in the Irish Times in the early nineties depicting individual Yugoslav's in foxholes each flying a flag for the 'Republic of Ivan' or the 'Republic of Boris' as the ultimate end of the fragmentation - to non-viable, Micky Mouse states.

Good luck with it, but this time I suggest someone else foot the bill on this clusterfsck.

shqipshume

Sorry to burst ur bubble,
As far as one can see in the world the only violent outbursts are coming from the Serbians.
Ukrainian UN police officer dies after Kosovo riots
18 Mar 2008 09:42:28 GMT
Source: Reuters

(Updates with Kiev confirmation, more injuries) MITROVICA, Kosovo, March 18 (Reuters) - A Ukrainian police officer serving with the United Nations in Kosovo died of injuries sustained in violent clashes with Serbs on Monday, Ukraine's interior ministry said, confirming earlier reports. The number of Ukrainians injured in the clashes, the worst since Kosovo's Albanian majority declared independence from Serbia a month ago, has risen to 20 from the 14 that were earlier announced, the ministry said on Tuesday. It said the officer died late on Monday "after a surgical operation, from multiple injuries". It had said before that some 50-60 grenades had been levelled at the forces. Ukraine has contributed 155 police and 182 military personnel to the peacekeeping force in Kosovo. (Reporting by Matt Robinson, Branislav Krstic and Sabina Zawadzki)

God bless him and his family and all those who were hurt

The Corinthian

shqipshume wrote: »

Sorry to burst ur bubble,
As far as one can see in the world the only violent outbursts are coming from the Serbians.

I suggest you wake up and smell the Molotov...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3551571.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3525168.stm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/03/28/wkos28.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/03/28/ixnewstop.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3553837.stm
http://www.hrw.org/reports/1999/kosov2/

regedit

The Corinthian wrote: »

I suggest you wake up and smell the Molotov...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3551571.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3525168.stm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/03/28/wkos28.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/03/28/ixnewstop.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3553837.stm
http://www.hrw.org/reports/1999/kosov2/

Do not dare and try to sway the public opinion you moron. You are referring to events from 2004 and we do not live in that year. Why did you not make references to the 1999 masacres!
Weather you like it or not, Kosova is the newest state in Europe and as I said, even in poverty, they will not have toendure the serb boot over their head.

regedit

andala wrote: »

Oh, I see. Thanks guys for explanations. There's just one thing bugging me now. Do you think Americans should be expelled from the US as they came there no sooner than in 15th century (or even later)?

How far back can you trace your origins and demand that this land is given "back" to you. Borders have been changing all the time around the world. It has been proved in one of the threads here that Kosovo is an illegal creation according to international law. Besides, if you want to dig in history. There has never been a nation like Kosovars, has there? (even my spell-check doesn't recognise this word )

Go and sell your sarcasm somewhere else. Kosova was part of Serbia since the 1912. Before that, it was occupied from time to time.
Kosova is not an artificial creation. One could argue that the East Timor is an artificuial creation or many of the former CCCP states but each of them is independent now. If you read up a little more you will finsd that Serbia and its regime (imperialism and hegemony) is a cause of the instability in the region for a long time (Serb terrorists assasinated Archduke Franz Ferdinand and his pregnant wife in Sarajevo) and this cause the start of WW1. Throughout history, the same thing happened.
As for your word spellchecker, once it marks the term Kosova, Kosovar just tell it to add to dictionary and it will recognise it as a new word!

The Corinthian

regedit wrote: »

Do not dare and try to sway the public opinion you moron. You are referring to events from 2004 and we do not live in that year. Why did you not make references to the 1999 masacres!

For someone who is accusing me of being a moron you don't appear too bright yourself. You made a ridiculous statement, about how blameless the Albanian Kosovars were with regard to ethnic violence, and I pointed out after only a minute of searching how you were talking rubbish. I could also make reference to the Serbian massacre of Albanian Kosovars, but that is not being denied by anyone.

My point is that the ethnic division is such that violence on both sides in inevitable. The only thing that may stop it is foreign troops and even that is debatable.

Also swaying 'public opinion' is part of debate, although this may be a difficult concept for you to grasp.

Weather you like it or not, Kosova is the newest state in Europe and as I said, even in poverty, they will not have toendure the serb boot over their head.

Whether I like it or not? That's a moot point as I don't really care either way. However I do care that Western Europe will end up footing the bill for another banana republic that seems more interested in settling old scores than anything else.

You want to be a sovereign state? Good, then pay for it yourselves.

shqipshume

The Corinthian wrote: »

I suggest you wake up and smell the Molotov...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3551571.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3525168.stm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/03/28/wkos28.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/03/28/ixnewstop.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3553837.stm
http://www.hrw.org/reports/1999/kosov2/

oh bo bo bo

Source: http://www.hic.hr
Accessed 06 May 1999
Translation by the Croatian Information Centre

[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]PRESS CUT - Croatian Press News in English[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]April 27, 1999[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]* KOSOVO CRISIS [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]Zeljko Kruselj, ‘Etnicko Ciscenje Kosova sesti je val zlocina Srba nad Albancima u stotinu godina’[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]Vecernji list, April 27, 1999, p. 17. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]ETHNIC CLEANSING OF KOSOVO IS SIXTH WAVE OF CRIME AGAINST ALBANIANS IN 100 YEARS[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]ZAGREB - As much as people do not like to hear it, the worst victims of NATO attacks against FRY are the Kosovo Albanians. The reason for this is that Milosevic is taking advantage of a state of war to finish the plan of ethnically cleansing Kosovo of Albanians, as was planned by ‘Greater Serbian’ ideologists a long time ago. Close to 600 thousand Albanians have already fled Kosovo over the last month, while tens of thousands are still hiding in the mountains of Kosovo in search of safer routes toward the southern border. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]Though the Belgrade regime probably realises it will, in the end, lose the war and that it will have to unconditionally agree to the return of refugees, as well as a probable international protectorate in Kosovo, it still has the goal of preventing at least some of the Albanians from returning to Kosovo. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]That is how the Kosovo myth about the region being the ‘birthplace of Serbism’ - although it stopped being just that after the failed uprising against the Turks at the end of the 17th century - continues to be a source of inspiration in the present day. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]Generations of Serbian politicians and intellectuals have created plans for the final solution to this problem, not hiding their hegemonism and aggressive chauvinism based on religious, cultural and even racist prejudices. Experts who deal with the history of Kosovo have no doubts that the genocidal policies toward Kosovo Albanians have been obvious since 1878, when Serbia and Montenegro were internationally formally recognised, in spite of their defeat from the Turks and thanks to Russian diplomacy and the Berlin Conference. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]‘DENSE ALBANIAN VILLAGES’ CONQUERED ONE BY ONE [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]Seeing as the Albanians used to live in present day southern Serbia, the direct consequence of that fact was their brutal expulsion from the wider vicinities of Nis, Pirot, Palanka, Leskovac and Vranje. Serbian historians attempted to portray that exodus as voluntary moving, to spite some other later writers who wrote of the authorities after 1878 secretly torching villages and Albanian quarters in cities. It is difficult to talk about any precise numbers, primarily due to the fact the Serbian authorities back failed to conduct a census, but it is presumed that no less than 30,000 Albanians were expelled from Serbia. Some of them moved to Kosovo, which was not under Serbian rule at the time, while others settled in Asia Minor and other areas of the Ottoman Empire. What was actually happening at that time can be seen through a text by Vasa Cubrilovic - a participant in the assassination of the Austro-Hungarian heir to the throne, Franjo Ferdinand, in Sarajevo - who later became an ideologist of genocide against the Albanians. Here is a quote from Cubrilovic from Ljubica Stefan’s book ‘Serbs and Albanians’ (three volumes), which had to be published in Ljubljana without an author’s name, due to the political psychosis in 1989. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]"The moment the first Serbian units began their penetration toward Kursumlija, Prokuplje and Leskovac, they came across densely grouped Albanian villages that refused to surrender. They will be the central point of Serbian battles. Village by village had to be taken. The Albanians retreated toward the south, hiding in refugee camps and continued to fight. When the Serbian Army would approach refugee camps, they would retreat toward the South Morava Valleys, Veternica, Medvedje, Pusta Reka and Laba, then further on to Kosovo… After 1878, Serbia had to colonise the regions abandoned by the Albanians and Turks. The border with Kosovo had to be settled with nationally loyal residents in order for the border with the Albanians to be secure." [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]RESPONSIBILITY FOR ‘SERBIAN MISFORTUNE’ [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]A new wave of crimes against the Albanians, this time in Kosovo and in western regions of Macedonia, began in the first of the Balkan wars, when the Serbs and Montenegrins - assisted by the Bulgarians and Greeks - expelled Turkey from the Balkans. In an analysis of the Serbian press of the period, Ljubica Stefan noticed the leader of the murders and expulsions of Albanians was the Serbian Orthodox Church, that sent Serbian soldiers to battle with the slogan "avenge Kosovo!" That is how Albanians ended up bearing the burden of blame for the "Serbian misfortune" on religious grounds, though they were also rebelling against the Sultan for their own independence. Serbs and Montenegrins at the time were not too interested in Kosovo, rather in the northern part of Albania, especially the regions surrounding Skadar and Drac. Belgrade and Cetinja reached their goal, but had to leave those regions due to the pressure of the world powers of the time. At the 1913 London Conference an independent Albania was created with borders almost identical to the ones existing today. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]The total figures for Serbian and Montenegrin army crimes, who’s countries divided Kosovo between themselves, were never published. Judging by individual reports from the field, which was often written by the leader of the Serbian Social Democratic Party, Dimitrije Tucovic, tens of thousands of Albanians were massacred, in addition to masses of displaced persons. [/SIZE][/FONT]

shqipshume

[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]"WHOEVER SURVIVES TO NIGHTFALL…" [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]A Tucovic text, with an indicative title - ‘Blood Revenge for Wild Soldiers’ - includes descriptions such as the following: [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]"The ghost of death hung over the heads of Pec, Djakovica and Prizren Albanians day and night. Whoever survived to nightfall was not sure to see the next sunrise… With the fall of Kumanovo, the entire Albanian population, which was being pushed by the Serbian Army coming in from the north, flocked to Skopje in hope of finding sanctuary. Most found death instead." [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]At the time there were also a lot of forceful baptisms of Muslim Albanians to the Serbian Orthodox faith and the Catholic priest from Djakovica warned his bishop that the Montenegrin authorities are forcing both Albanians and Catholics to embrace the Orthodox religion. When the world powers demanded the Belgrade authorities recognise basic civil and religious rights for Albanians, Nikola Pasic angrily replied, "Serbia cannot agree to that demand because it is in opposition to the right to state sovereignty." It is interesting that the Milosevic regime today is using the same arguments to camouflage their crimes. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]After the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes (SHS) was created, the Albanian position did not get any better and that was the time when the actual colonisation of Kosovo began. The first cycle of colonisation of Serbian ‘Salonikans’ and Montenegrins was staged between 1922 and 1929, and the other was between 1933 and 1938. Belgrade sources admit the arrival of 12 thousand colonial families to Kosovo, which could mean some 60 thousand people. It is presumed that some of those people shared their land or there was no official record of any other new arrivals because in the end there were "34,528 agricultural units with land." They received land confiscated through the agricultural reforms, as well as the majority of municipal land and private property that was owned primarily by expelled Albanians. The confiscation of parts or all Albanian land, according to post-war revisions of the communist authorities, 6,342 Albanian families suffered damages. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]The methods implemented in the colonisation in the field between the two world wars, is best testified by one Serbian colonist from the Prizren area: [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]"There were many cases where Serbs were given land, orchards or fields, owned by Albanians, outside of a limited complex, from the authorities. The Albanians received no compensation in money or land. Every Serb with less than 10 hectares could receive an additional 10 hectares from the authorities. All that had to be done was to go to the authorities and say: "I want you to give me this or that orchard that belongs to this or that Albanian because I have less than 10 hectares," and the authorities would give it to the Serb requesting it." [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]OTHER METHODS: FINES, ARRESTS, TAXES… [/SIZE][/FONT]

shqipshume

[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]It has been estimated that only up to 1921 some 40 thousand Kosovo Albanians fled to Albania because of state terror. However, in the period between the wars, the population in Kosovo was still 66 percent in favour of Albanians, as opposed to Serbs and Montenegrin who could only ‘muster up’ 22 percent. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]Not even the drastic methods of political and economic pressures did not satisfy Belgrade political and intellectual circles. The Serbian Cultural Circle, the brain of ‘Greater Serbianism’ of that time, organised on March 7, 1937, a debate on the Kosovo question. The officer in charge was the respected historian Vasa Cubrilovic and the topic of the debate was ‘Eviction of Albanians’. The point of his deliberation was to motivate a complete cleansing of Albanians from Kosovo, using all possible methods ranging from the agreement with the Turks on accepting emigrants to the most brutal methods of terrorism and crime: [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]"The other method would be pressure on the state authorities. They should use the laws to their limits in order to make the survival of Albanians in our land very bitter: fines, arrests, merciless implementation of all police regulations… merciless tax collection and all public and private debts, confiscation of state grazing pastures… The Albanians are the most sensitive concerning religion, hence they should be touched where they hurt the most. This can be achieved by harassing their clergy, clearing cemeteries, forbidding polygamy… The displacement of villages has to be a priority, as well as in the cities. The villages are more stable, hence are more dangerous. After that, we should not make the mistake of only expelling the poor." [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]The development of Cubrilovic’s theories was entrusted to Ivo Andric in 1939, who was the Yugoslav deputy foreign minister at that time. He put the displacement of Albanians in an international context, which was to be used in further talks with Turkey, while the most important Yugoslav goal was to divide Albania with Mussolini, in order for the Kosovo Albanians to be assimilated more easily. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]Cubrilovic joined the communist authorities in 1944 as a minister, but did not relinquish his theories, which he reiterated, but this time in the form of fear that the Albanian element, "which was opposed to the old Yugoslavia, will also be opposed to the new one." That document was kept under lock and key for decades in the Belgrade military archive. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]In the final battles to liberate Yugoslavia, tens of thousands of young Albanians were forcefully drafted for military service and used as cannon fodder on the Srijem (Sirmium) Front. An example was recorded and was mentioned by Aleksandar Rankovic in 1945, when an Albanian killed his superior (Serbian) officer. 300 novice soldiers (Albanians) were immediately massacred. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]In the mid-sixties, just before the fall of Rankovic, every third employee in Kosovo was a Montenegrin, every fourth was a Serb and every seventeenth was an Albanian. When Milosevic cancelled Kosovo autonomy in 1989, in a very short period some 150,000 Albanians were dismissed from work. Only "honest Albanians" - i.e. Serb obedient Albanians - were able to keep their public and national company jobs. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]In the post war period, the pressures to evict Albanians continued, especially through economic measures, as well as political and legal persecution, in principle, against the "Albanian irredenta." In the eighties, 3,340 Albanians were jailed for alleged political crimes, while another 10,000 were prosecuted and convicted of criminal acts. The former were sentenced to over seven years, or a total of 23,400 years imprisonment in total for all of those sentenced. The latter, mostly younger people, were sentenced to a total of 25,000 years imprisonment. According to those figures, the former Yugoslav federation was the record holder in Europe. Furthermore, up to the beginning of the open conflict in Kosovo, 223 Albanians were killed during police operations.[/SIZE][/FONT]

oscarBravo

regedit, no personal abuse - read the charter. TC, retaliation isn't allowed either. shqipshume, if you've copied & pasted from somewhere else, attribute the source.

This thread had better get a damn sight more civilised if it's to stay open.

shqipshume

oscarBravo wrote: »

regedit, no personal abuse - read the charter. TC, retaliation isn't allowed either. shqipshume, if you've copied & pasted from somewhere else, attribute the source.

This thread had better get a damn sight more civilised if it's to stay open.

I am trying to keep it civilised, i am just supporting what i believe is right.
Thanks
And this is the source
http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/kosovo/Kosovo-Background15.htm

The Corinthian

Look, when someone actually manages to address the issue of reciprocal violence raise rather than post slabs of text about what a hard time the Albanians had (no one is denying they did, btw) then I'll be happy to engage.

If on the other hand regedit and shqipshume insist on ignoring these blatantly obvious issue and prefer to stick to a romanticized view of the situation then I will leave you to it.

shqipshume

The Corinthian wrote: »

Look, when someone actually manages to address the issue of reciprocal violence raise rather than post slabs of text about what a hard time the Albanians had (no one is denying they did, btw) then I'll be happy to engage.

If on the other hand regedit and shqipshume insist on ignoring these blatantly obvious issue and prefer to stick to a romanticized view of the situation then I will leave you to it.

U posted violence towards Serbians from 2004 and 1999 so i brought u back to when and how long it has been going on.Serbians oppressing Albanians,
There is no issue of Violence from Albanians on Serbians in the region at the present time.
You have no grounds to stand on.I will not go delving thru the many video's and news reports of the amount of Albanians who were murdered and post them to make u happy.I could spend all nite going over it.
This is not what this thread was about until some people tried to make it as such.And u i might add were one of these people.
These people deserve peace in Kosova and by means of ejecting Serbian government was the only way it was going to ever happen.
Or how many others would have died while the world as u would have wished it looked the other way.
P.S
How much funding and foreign investment did Ireland receive should we have been told to do it on ur own?

The Corinthian

shqipshume wrote: »

U posted violence towards Serbians from 2004 and 1999 so i brought u back to when and how long it has been going on.Serbians oppressing Albanians,

Irrelevant. The grudges are there as we have seen from even this thread and violence has broken out previously. At present the only thing holding back such violence by either side is the presence of foreign troops.

Indeed your incessant need to revisit how hard done by the Albanians have been is indicative of this 'us versus them' mentality.

This is not what this thread was about until some people tried to make it as such.And u i might add were one of these people.

Oh terribly sorry for not bleating my agreement with you :rolleyes:

These people deserve peace in Kosova and by means of ejecting Serbian government was the only way it was going to ever happen.
Or how many others would have died while the world as u would have wished it looked the other way.

TBH, people are going to die either way. I think the grudges that exist on both sides have made this inevitable.

How much funding and foreign investment did Ireland receive should we have been told to do it on ur own?

Actually we managed to be a viable, albeit poor, state for a long time before we joined the EEC. Kosovo is not even in a position to do that.

andala

regedit wrote: »

Go and sell your sarcasm somewhere else.

Thank you for your good advice. I'm afraid you got a bit too personal. I am entitled to my opinion and I don't recall telling you to mount your donkey or attend an anger control class. That's why I'd appreciate that you kept to your arguments without going personal. Thanks in advance.

Kosova was part of Serbia since the 1912. Before that, it was occupied from time to time.
Kosova is not an artificial creation. One could argue that the East Timor is an artificuial creation or many of the former CCCP states but each of them is independent now. If you read up a little more you will finsd that Serbia and its regime (imperialism and hegemony) is a cause of the instability in the region for a long time (Serb terrorists assasinated Archduke Franz Ferdinand and his pregnant wife in Sarajevo) and this cause the start of WW1. Throughout history, the same thing happened.

This argument only proves that Serbs are guilty of some crimes. Definitely not only them. It doesn't prove how this region's independence is legal in the light of international law.

As for your word spellchecker, once it marks the term Kosova, Kosovar just tell it to add to dictionary and it will recognise it as a new word!

I'd rather not do it, before long it will be Albania - and my spell-checker recognises this one.

cabinteelytom

The history illuminated by shiqushume certainly seems very serious offences, which I did not know about ( many thanks, you have explained a lot), and exposes some of the methods and rationalisations used by self-righteous ethnic groups (in this case Serbs) to get 'only what we deserve'.
But, is it right that a body as ignorant as EU foreign ministers (most of them will be pretty shaky on their 'Balkan History over the Centuries') should have such a major say in what happens in this unhappy corner of Serbia?
The autonomous Kurdish region of Iraq has made a different choice - assuring Iraqis that it is not seeking independence; very constructively I have thought. Maybe mistrust and fear is too established in Kosovo for that.