Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Unionist wearing orange sash addresses Sin Fein Ard Fheis
Options
-
29-02-2008 10:29pm#1Can I just say how brilliant it was to see this.
I am a nationalist and Sinn Fein supporter and I believe the unionist people, their cultures and traditions, are an integral part of this island.
I would absolutely love to someday see unionists and nationalist living in harmony in a united Ireland. Some may think that will never happen, but today was a step towards that, no matter how small.
What are peoples opinions on this?0
Comments
-
Can I just say how brilliant it was to see this.
I am a nationalist and Sinn Fein supporter and I believe the unionist people, their cultures and traditions, are an integral part of this island.
I would absolutely love to someday see unionists and nationalist living in harmony in a united Ireland. Some may think that will never happen, but today was a step towards that, no matter how small.
What are peoples opinions on this?
Would you not be happy enough just to see unionists and nationalists living in harmony full stop?
It's good to see this kind of thing as it's about time that each side dropped its uncompromising hatred of the the other... I'm sure Sinn Féin realise that it will take a hell of a lot more time and effort to gain the trust of Unionists, however, and be in a situation where the idea of a united Ireland isn't written off from the outset.0 -
The whole unionist/nationalist thing is over.We're ruled from Brussles.We have mass immigration from eastern europe.The Irish language is dead.There's virtually no Irish culture left.0
-
-
Would you not be happy enough just to see unionists and nationalists living in harmony full stop?
It's good to see this kind of thing as it's about time that each side dropped its uncompromising hatred of the the other... I'm sure Sinn Féin realise that it will take a hell of a lot more time and effort to gain the trust of Unionists, however, and be in a situation where the idea of a united Ireland isn't written off from the outset.
No, I dont see why I should be. As I stated I believe Ireland should be a united 32 county republic.
I would be a lot happier if unionists and nationalists lived in harmony rather than hating/killing/maiming each other but ultimately I believe the six counties should be part of the republic. Bottom line is we all know that there is only one way now that will ever happen and that has nothing to do with violence, physical force or hate.0 -
No, I dont see why I should be. As I stated I believe Ireland should be a united 32 county republic.
I would be a lot happier if unionists and nationalists lived in harmony rather than hating/killing/maiming each other but ultimately I believe the six counties should be part of the republic. Bottom line is we all know that there is only one way now that will ever happen and that has nothing to do with violence, physical force or hate.
All a bit rich after Sinn Fein/PIRA has just been trying to bomb unionists out of the north for 35 years.
You don't seriously expect to be taken seriously ?
.
If it wasn't for the FRU etc in the north you would still be planting bombs.
The only reason you stopped is because the war was taken to you.
Why should people you have bombed for 35 years have any time for you ?0 -
Advertisement
-
Pathfinder wrote: »All a bit rich after Sinn Fein/PIRA has just been trying to bomb unionists out of the north for 35 years.
You don't seriously expect to be taken seriously ?
.
If it wasn't for the FRU etc in the north you would still be planting bombs.
The only reason you stopped is because the war was taken to you.
Why should people you have bombed for 35 years have any time for you ?
well why not??? there seems to be alrge part of the population taking us seriously as it is.
the war was fought to a standstill. the ira said it couldn't win the war though military means alone and so did the british army. it was an evolution of the past struggle so unless you have a problem with change i would suggest to you to wake up to the modern forward looking world.
and to answer your last question, because we have more time for them now. violence is not the way forward now.
and you would be quite suprised to hear that i know for a certainty that some 30%+ of people who come to SF in my area are from the community that you seem to imply we tried to "bomb for 35 years"
they come to SF because they know SF we take the strongest line when it comes to being let down by the government and the police.
but back on topic, it was a great sight to see. and his speech to me was very powerful.0 -
The British armies mandate was not to militarily win the war, rather to allow an environment to prevail where democracy could prevail and the civil powers keep authority, which it did.
Violence is not the way forward because too many of your members were getting killed, its all a bit transparent.
It was less then 20 years ago your members were beating people to death at funerals and mutilating them.
And you still destroy wreaths left by families of those who were murdered at Warrenpoint/Narrow water.
I for one would not want such people to have political authority over me and nor would I trust them if they did.
You even have one senior politician in the south (whom I wont name) who is responsible burning 12 members of the NI collie club to death at the La Mon restaurant/hotel and has never shown remorse for his evil actions.
I think of it every time I see him laughing and joking on the telly.
http://www.iraatrocities.fsnet.co.uk/lamon.htm
Twelve people were "Incinerated" when the Provisional IRA/Sinn Fein left a fire-bomb at "La Mon House", Gransha, a country hotel outside Belfast. Of the twelve people killed seven of the victims were women. All who died were attending the Annual dinner dance of the Irish Collie Club and were Protestant Civilians. Three married couples were amongst the dead. Over 400 people were packed into the La Mon hotel on the night of the bombing. Members of the Irish Collie Club and the Northern Ireland Junior Motorcycle Club were settling down to enjoy dinner dances at the popular hotel.0 -
It was the brits (army)that the provos bombed for 28years not the unionists people the FRU SAS ect murdered and tortured innocent Irish and it has stopped now because of decent men (Adams Hume Clinton Blair) to name a fewPathfinder wrote: »All a bit rich after Sinn Fein/PIRA has just been trying to bomb unionists out of the north for 35 years.
You don't seriously expect to be taken seriously ?
.
If it wasn't for the FRU etc in the north you would still be planting bombs.
The only reason you stopped is because the war was taken to you.
Why should people you have bombed for 35 years have any time for you ?0 -
Mr stone was doing the brits dirty work a few days before and if the sas firing guns had kept away the would not have been killed at the funeral of stones victims you have to understand an armed brit in Ireland at that time was a terroristPathfinder wrote: »
It was less then 20 years ago your members were beating people to death at funerals and mutilating them.
And you still destroy wreaths left by families of those who were murdered at Warrenpoint/Narrow water.0 -
No, I dont see why I should be. As I stated I believe Ireland should be a united 32 county republic.
I never said you should be - just asking if you would.
I personally would like to see a United Ireland but only one based on true consent and one formed for social and economic reasons rather than historical idealogical ones. I certainly despise the concept of simply achieving a 50+1 nationalist majority in Northern Ireland and bulldozing through a "united" Ireland from there.
Do you?I would be a lot happier if unionists and nationalists lived in harmony rather than hating/killing/maiming each other but ultimately I believe the six counties should be part of the republic.
To me, peace on the island comes first. If I had to choose between peace and unity I'd go with the former every time.Bottom line is we all know that there is only one way now that will ever happen and that has nothing to do with violence, physical force or hate.
Glad to see you and the party you support accept that. God only knows how much closer we'd be to a United Ireland had the IRA's "war" ended decades ago.The whole unionist/nationalist thing is over.
Someone should tell the MLAs, soWe're ruled from Brussles.
It's true - sure I don't know why anyone cares if Bertie's corrupt; he has no power anyway.We have mass immigration from eastern europe.
And they're going to wipe out Irish culture here just like the Irish wiped out Australian culture decades ago, right? Or just like the British wiped out Irish culture over a period of 800 years, right?The Irish language is dead.
And that's Europe's fault, the Government's fault, the immigrant's fault but most certainly not the individual's fault.There's virtually no Irish culture left.
Not since the Government ordered the burning of all those trad instruments last year and the GAA was shut down anyway.... oh wait...0 -
Advertisement
-
berliner: further deliberate off-topic postings from you in this forum will not be tolerated. Consider this an offical warning.
Everyone else: before you reply to this thread, take your hands off the keyboard for thirty seconds and remember that people aren't always trolling for a reaction. There can be very strongly held beliefs on both sides which others will find distasteful or even reprehensible. The way to tackle this is to debate the positions with respect and civility. Personal attacks get us nowhere and will lead to the thread being locked if it continues.0 -
I seen this on the news tonight. It was great to see a person from a unionist background addressing a Sinn Fein conference and receiving a warm reception. Will we see a republican addressing a Unionist conference next, hope so. Could not have seen this happening 10 years ago but its another small positive step towards bringing both sides closer together.0
-
Mr stone was doing the brits dirty work a few days before and if the sas firing guns had kept away the would not have been killed at the funeral of stones victims you have to understand an armed brit in Ireland at that time was a terrorist
If Micheal Stone had been "armed by the Brits", he would hardly have been given home made blast grenades and a handgun that jammed.
The cpls murdered at the funeral and who's bodies were mutilated were not SAS or Det or E4, if they had been they would have been far heavier armed. Further they would not have been in such a position, the driver was a signaller giving his replacement a tour of Belfast and they got lost.
(Apologies for going off topic mod but these constant false accusations and claims need to be challenged).0 -
I was going to continue the debate regarding Stone & the SAS but I think the reason the unionist was allowed speak at the Ard Fheis was because as a society we have moved on so maybe this thread should too.
When I heard first about the fact that a unionist was going to speak I thought that it was a brilliant coup for peace.
However, when I heard that he was speaking to discuss security force collusion, I thought that it was using the traditional SF talking point about the North which I feel is why they got trashed in the last general election here. They can't really talk about anything else!
Who have they brought in to talk about the economy, crime, health, etc.?0 -
Pathfinder wrote: »All a bit rich after Sinn Fein/PIRA has just been trying to bomb unionists out of the north for 35 years.
You don't seriously expect to be taken seriously ?
.
If it wasn't for the FRU etc in the north you would still be planting bombs.
The only reason you stopped is because the war was taken to you.
Why should people you have bombed for 35 years have any time for you ?
Thats a pretty skewed view of events imo. What happened over the last 35 years is history. Its in the past, surely its beneficial for all concerned if we move on? both sides have commited atrocities in the past http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitchcapping
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_%281972%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_and_tans
Are you suggesting that because of what happened in the past we should never trust each other and never move on?I personally would like to see a United Ireland but only one based on true consent and one formed for social and economic reasons rather than historical idealogical ones. I certainly despise the concept of simply achieving a 50+1 nationalist majority in Northern Ireland and bulldozing through a "united" Ireland from there.
Do you?
I think if the people of Northern Ireland vote in favour of a united Ireland then it should be so.
There are definately strong economic reasons for wanting a united Ireland imo. I have heard many times how getting the 6 counties back would somehow destroy the Irish economy which tbh I think is rubbish. Transport and communication links are already strong between the republic and the north and northern Ireland has a highly skilled and well educated work force, strong tourist and manufacturing sectors. Add to that GDP of around €37 billion, a low unemployment rate and markets that are already well integrated with those of the republic and I think there is definite economic incentive for a united Ireland.
Given that the North has such rich cultures and traditions (both nationalist and unionist) which are so inextricably linked with the Republic there are strong social reasons as well.0 -
Thats a pretty skewed view of events imo. What happened over the last 35 years is history. Its in the past, surely its beneficial for all concerned if we move on? both sides have commited atrocities in the past http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitchcapping
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_%281972%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_and_tans
Are you suggesting that because of what happened in the past we should never trust each other and never move on?
I think if the people of Northern Ireland vote in favour of a united Ireland then it should be so.
There are definately strong economic reasons for wanting a united Ireland imo. I have heard many times how getting the 6 counties back would somehow destroy the Irish economy which tbh I think is rubbish. Transport and communication links are already strong between the republic and the north and northern Ireland has a highly skilled and well educated work force, strong tourist and manufacturing sectors. Add to that GDP of around €37 billion, a low unemployment rate and markets that are already well integrated with those of the republic and I think there is definite economic incentive for a united Ireland.
Given that the North has such rich cultures and traditions (both nationalist and unionist) which are so inextricably linked with the Republic there are strong social reasons as well.
Pitchcapping was a punishment used in the 1800s.
THe PIRA was chaining and tarring and feathering young Catholic women in Belfast in the 1970s, justify that ?
Why not mention the Green and tans ?(formerly Dublin IRA brigade), after all they killed more IRA members the black and tans ever did, maybe thats a bit inconvenient.
History must be turned into propaganda to suit your needs,
You are obviously new to Sinn Feins lies and spin, heres the reality of what they do with power.
Council to vote on removal of unionist symbols
Limavady Borough Council will vote tonight on whether to back a report which favours the removal of British and unionist symbols from Council property.
Members of the nationalist-controlled authority will meet this evening to consider a working group report that recommends the removal of emblems and artefacts from council-owned facilities.
The report is the outcome of a Sinn Fein/SDLP working group that was set up in 2005 to consider creating a 'neutral working space'. Limavady's unionist councillors refused to take up their positions on the group.
Items up for removal include a statue of William Ferguson Massey, an Orangeman who left Limavady as a teenager and went on to become Prime Minister of New Zealand.
Others include a Charles and Diana wedding mug, a Royal British Legion certificate, plates, pictures and paperweights given to the town by visiting soldiers.0 -
If stone was not there for the brits why did the van that he was running to (admitted by the ruc that it was one of thairs) drive away and leave him when the people who were being shot and bombed by stone got to close. all gun jam including brit ones and the grenades were not home made they were from a consignment shipped in from south Africa concerning the sas men killed at the funeral you mean to tell me that at one of the most dangerous times in the North that they just happened to be driving past a highly charged crowd at that particular time ( they most likely were there to lift another guy like stone after he had murdered a few more republicans and when all went wrong he cleared off)Pathfinder wrote: »If Micheal Stone had been "armed by the Brits", he would hardly have been given home made blast grenades and a handgun that jammed.
The cpls murdered at the funeral and who's bodies were mutilated were not SAS or Det or E4, if they had been they would have been far heavier armed. Further they would not have been in such a position, the driver was a signaller giving his replacement a tour of Belfast and they got lost.
(Apologies for going off topic mod but these constant false accusations and claims need to be challenged).0 -
Pathfinder wrote: »Pitchcapping was a punishment used in the 1800s.
THe PIRA was chaining and tarring and feathering young Catholic women in Belfast in the 1970s, justify that ?
My point exactly. The past is the past end of story! doesnt matter if its the 1970's or the 18th century.
My point is this. We can grow up and accept what is done id done and try to look forwards or continue to dwell on the atrocities carried out by both sides. I know which one I would prefer.Pathfinder wrote: »Why not mention the Green and tans ?(formerly Dublin IRA brigade), after all they killed more IRA members the black and tans ever did, maybe thats a bit inconvenient.
Never heard of them but why would I mention them if they killed IRA members? my point was to illustrate atrocities carried out in the past. Dont see how it is inconvenient at all? I dont care if a person is British, Irish, catholic or protestant.Makes absolutely no difference to me. You seem to be missing my point completely.Pathfinder wrote: »History must be turned into propaganda to suit your needs,
Again you miss the point, I was not posting those links for propaganda.0 -
If stone was not there for the brits why did the van that he was running to (admitted by the ruc that it was one of thairs) drive away and leave him when the people who were being shot and bombed by stone got to close. all gun jam including brit ones and the grenades were not home made they were from a consignment shipped in from south Africa concerning the sas men killed at the funeral you mean to tell me that at one of the most dangerous times in the North that they just happened to be driving past a highly charged crowd at that particular time ( they most likely were there to lift another guy like stone after he had murdered a few more republicans and when all went wrong he cleared off)
Repeat they were not members of the SAS at that funeral, yet you still repeat untruths.
One had an ID card saying Herford, a base in Germany, the PIRA presumed this was Hereford and claimed they were SAS.
Undercover members of the Det, E4 or SAS would not just be armed with a single handgun, which was issued to serving personal in NI when travelling between army bases in civilian vehicles.
Stone was rescued by an RUC unit at the edge of the funeral, who at first were unaware what was happening, all they saw was a crowd running towards them. that does not mean they were in league with him.0 -
My point exactly. The past is the past end of story! doesnt matter if its the 1970's or the 18th century.
My point is this. We can grow up and accept what is done id done and try to look forwards or continue to dwell on the atrocities carried out by both sides. I know which one I would prefer.
Never heard of them but why would I mention them if they killed IRA members? my point was to illustrate atrocities carried out in the past. Dont see how it is inconvenient at all? I dont care if a person is British, Irish, catholic or protestant.Makes absolutely no difference to me. You seem to be missing my point completely.
Again you miss the point, I was not posting those links for propaganda.
But its not the end of story because the PIRA is still beating people to death and still has some weapons and explosives stored, as the SIS are fully aware.
Some are chemicals imported from Holland in the late 90s and used in the potential production of IEDs, stored in barrels.
The reality is, MI5 have Sinn Fein where they want them, militarily compromised, with limited support in the south. Its better to have them as as a power sharing civil govt with limited power, in support of the GFA then planting bombs.0 -
Advertisement
-
So the 11 killed at Enniskillen in Nov 1987 were 'the brits (army)', as were the protestant workmen who were ambushed one there way home from work in early 1990s (can't remember exact details but there was a furor afterwards when Peter Brooke sang on The Late Late Show the same nightIt was the brits (army)that the provos bombed for 28years not the unionists people
[/QUOTE]0 -
Well, Unionist and crown forces in a dominant position terrorised the Catholic population and, lets face it, treated them like **** since time immemoriable. From being discriminated for jobs, to the torture chambers where Catholics (often randomly picked up) were tortured for hours while "loyalists" whiled away the hours drinking and torturing them. Some ended their lives there, others in a nearby ditch or alley. FRU indirectly participated in and covered up these activities. Hardly something to be proud of.Pathfinder wrote: »All a bit rich after Sinn Fein/PIRA has just been trying to bomb unionists out of the north for 35 years.
You don't seriously expect to be taken seriously ?
.
If it wasn't for the FRU etc in the north you would still be planting bombs.
The only reason you stopped is because the war was taken to you.
Why should people you have bombed for 35 years have any time for you ?0 -
Pathfinder wrote: »Repeat they were not members of the SAS at that funeral, yet you still repeat untruths.
One had an ID card saying Herford, a base in Germany, the PIRA presumed this was Hereford and claimed they were SAS.
Undercover members of the Det, E4 or SAS would not just be armed with a single handgun, which was issued to serving personal in NI when travelling between army bases in civilian vehicles.
Stone was rescued by an RUC unit at the edge of the funeral, who at first were unaware what was happening, all they saw was a crowd running towards them. that does not mean they were in league with him.
Regardles of ID and German bases and so on You should know that the sas it a very secret group and you have to understand are classed as terrorist by the nationalist people in the six county's I know enough about the brits as to no believe a word of there propaganda (try weapons of mass destruction for a start)
Regarding stone
You need to check the facts stone ran to the M1 moterway towards a waiting white transit van that had been parked there for several hours to the left side of where he entered the M1 when it drove off he ran to the right side away from the city was caught by the mourners put in a passing and rescued by his comrades a short while later0 -
More weapons of mass destruction that have not or will never be found because they don't exist (ask the tooth fairy)Pathfinder wrote: »Some are chemicals imported from Holland in the late 90s and used in the potential production of IEDs, stored in barrels..0 -
[/quote]Benedict XVI wrote: »So the 11 killed at Enniskillen in Nov 1987 were 'the brits (army)', as were the protestant workmen who were ambushed one there way home from work in early 1990s (can't remember exact details but there was a furor afterwards when Peter Brooke sang on The Late Late Show the same night
Pick and chose Benedict there was dreadful thing happened on both sides if you want a few visited on the nationalist side let me know0 -
For heaven's sake, will you use some p.u.n.c.t.u.a.t.i.o.n? your posts are impossible to read sometimes.TOMASJ wrote:Regarding stone
[/B] You need to check the facts stone ran to the M1 moterway towards a waiting white transit van that had been parked there for several hours to the left side of where he entered the M1 when it drove off he ran to the right side away from the city was caught by the mourners put in a passing and rescued by his comrades a short while later0 -
Tea drinker wrote: »Well, Unionist and crown forces in a dominant position terrorised the Catholic population and, lets face it, treated them like **** since time immemoriable. From being discriminated for jobs, to the torture chambers where Catholics (often randomly picked up) were tortured for hours while "loyalists" whiled away the hours drinking and torturing them. Some ended their lives there, others in a nearby ditch or alley. FRU indirectly participated in and covered up these activities. Hardly something to be proud of.
But thats not actually true though.
The BA was brought in to protect Catholics from ethnic cleansing which it did.
Relations were good until the IRA decided to start bombing and shooting.
NI was simply the opposite refection of the Catholic state in the south.
"Catholics were randomly picked up and tortured by the security forces".
Listen to your madness, whatcould doing that possibly achieve.
If your were honest it might read, suspected IRA members and their supporters were picked up and sometimes beaten up during interrogation (as were loyalists), sometimes mistakes were made.....bit of a difference.
Many were suspected of mass murder.
The FRU only came about after 85, when the PIRA tried to murder the British govt and crossed the line.
The BA was reacting to violence the PIRA orchestrating it.0 -
The Bottom Line Here:
THE NATIONALISTS KILLED INNOCENT PEOPLE
THE UNIONISTS KILLED INNOCENT PEOPLE
Who do you think yee are trying to say one side is better than the other?
Haven't yee actually read a bit of history, other than a select article on Wikipedia? Because if you do read history you will realize it was all a case of one side committing an atrocity, and the other replying as such.
SO ALL THAT HAS TO BE PUT IN THE PAST
Hearing of an unionist speaking at an Ard Deis is absolutely fantastic. Since I watched the reinstatement of power sharing, all I see are things becoming better. Whether the north is a part of Britain, Ireland, England, Scotland, Germany is NOT the main thing - once there is peace0 -
Can I just say how brilliant it was to see this.
I am a nationalist and Sinn Fein supporter and I believe the unionist people, their cultures and traditions, are an integral part of this island.
I would absolutely love to someday see unionists and nationalist living in harmony in a united Ireland. Some may think that will never happen, but today was a step towards that, no matter how small.
What are peoples opinions on this?
United Ireland??
We are long past that, sure havent the whole lot of us been swallowed up into a united Europe?
I came to a realisation that the people pushing for a united ireland, or the scots pushing for independance is a non issue as we are all one in the EU Union racket.0 -
Advertisement
-
I came to a realisation that the people pushing for a united ireland, or the scots pushing for independance is a non issue as we are all one in the EU Union racket.
I dont think thats strictly true. And its all about the political ideology of wanting a separate country. I mean in practice what will a independent Scotland achieve? Even though I am for it....0
Advertisement