Unionist wearing orange sash addresses Sin Fein Ard Fheis

leincar

murphaph wrote: »

That's the nub of the issue. I suggest (as do opinion polls) they are far fewer than their actual numbers. They have it good in Northern Ireland compared to here-higher spending on public services (the highest per capita in the UK with the possible exception of London), lower cost of housing and far lower general cost of living. They might vote for their local tribal leader at election time because they get more for their area than the other tribal leader but that is a world away from actually voting to seceed from a welfare state to join the RoI which is a much leaner beast.

I agree entirely. Also and I know this is going off thread but can anybody guesstimate just how many in the Republic would vote for it. It always intrigue's me as you never see an opinion poll about the topic.

Running Bing

leincar wrote: »

I agree entirely. Also and I know this is going off thread but can anybody guesstimate just how many in the Republic would vote for it. It always intrigue's me as you never see an opinion poll about the topic.

I think there would still be a strong majority for it tbh. Personally I think the "it would ruin our economy/ it would be economically infeasible" debates are rubbish but I do not think the majority of people in Ireland would even consider that.


I imagine a lot of people would just automatically vote for it. There is also the issue that Fianna Fail would have to get behind it as well as their hands are tied on the issue.


People will certainly argue but I feel it would be a very comfortable majority.

leincar

Babybing wrote: »

I think there would still be a strong majority for it tbh. Personally I think the "it would ruin our economy/ it would be economically infeasible" debates are rubbish but I do not think the majority of people in Ireland would even consider that.


I imagine a lot of people would just automatically vote for it. There is also the issue that Fianna Fail would have to get behind it as well as their hands are tied on the issue.


People will certainly argue but I feel it would be a very comfortable majority.

Sorry Babybing but I don't come at this at a pro or anti-United Ireland stance. I lived out of the country for a lot of years and I'm only back here 3 years and everyone I've met weather it be people in work or friends are totally ambivilent either way but, you never see an opinion poll about the topic.
If I'm honest if it is a full multi party state I would be for it. I fail to see how this would not benefit the Unionist tradition for they would have 20% of influence in the Dáil as against .5% in Westminister.

For me as a liberal I'd probably be more wary of that then anything else.

TOMASJ

leincar wrote: »

How many Nationalist voters genuinely want out of the U.K.?

100% in my opinion as all in the North is not as wonderful as you may have been led to believe, you do not pay rates on your houses in the 26 county's, the average in the North is £1000, Some people pay up to £4000 per year on a house valued at £700.000, Over the next couple of years we will be paying water rates £300 average per home, we do not pay to visit the local doctor but there is a 5 day on average waiting list, most dental practices are private and cost £25 to £50 per month, if you want to stay on their books, So as I say all is not what you may think.

Seth Brundle

Many people up North dislike the services and taxation systems inplace but do they realise that the alternative is pretty much as crap (if not worse)?
While rates have recently gone through the roof (my father in-law has to pay approx one months pension in rates), he can afford a better house, car and lifestyle in gneral than he would under an RoI government.
Most of the reason Nationalists want out of the UK is simply rooted from the bigotry and crap they endured over the years and they don't want to be part of the UK!

murphaph

TOMASJ wrote: »

100% in my opinion as all in the North is not as wonderful as you may have been led to believe, you do not pay rates on your houses in the 26 county's, the average in the North is £1000, Some people pay up to £4000 per year on a house valued at £700.000, Over the next couple of years we will be paying water rates £300 average per home, we do not pay to visit the local doctor but there is a 5 day on average waiting list, most dental practices are private and cost £25 to £50 per month, if you want to stay on their books, So as I say all is not what you may think.

I expect domestic rates and water metering to be implemented in the RoI. Water metering is curently being rolled out across commercial premises. This is a precursor IMO.

TOMASJ

kbannon wrote: »

Many people up North dislike the services and taxation systems inplace but do they realise that the alternative is pretty much as crap (if not worse)?
While rates have recently gone through the roof (my father in-law has to pay approx one months pension in rates), he can afford a better house, car and lifestyle in gneral than he would under an RoI government.
Most of the reason Nationalists want out of the UK is simply rooted from the bigotry and crap they endured over the years and they don't want to be part of the UK!

Your father in law is a lucky man and is in a better situation than 95% of the rest of people up North, if he is getting approx £1000 per month from his pension, most people get one third of that, and if they are lucky can drive a eight year old car and just about get by and the chances of affording a better house is nil,

murphaph

TOMASJ wrote: »

Your father in law is a lucky man and is in a better situation than 95% of the rest of people up North, if he is getting approx £1000 per month from his pension, most people get one third of that, and if they are lucky can drive a eight year old car and just about get by and the chances of affording a better house is nil,

Then why don't they just move south down Mexico way? It's not far. A couple of hundred thousand poles have moved here from much further.

K-9

turgon wrote: »

The Bottom Line Here:

THE NATIONALISTS KILLED INNOCENT PEOPLE
THE UNIONISTS KILLED INNOCENT PEOPLE

Who do you think yee are trying to say one side is better than the other?

Haven't yee actually read a bit of history, other than a select article on Wikipedia? Because if you do read history you will realize it was all a case of one side committing an atrocity, and the other replying as such.

SO ALL THAT HAS TO BE PUT IN THE PAST

Hearing of an unionist speaking at an Ard Deis is absolutely fantastic. Since I watched the reinstatement of power sharing, all I see are things becoming better. Whether the north is a part of Britain, Ireland, England, Scotland, Germany is NOT the main thing - once there is peace

+1. And I know a fair bit: Stalker Inquiry, Violation of European Human Rights by the RUC in the late 70's, Internment, gerrymandering, GAA grounds occupied/burned and members harassed and killed etc. etc.

Pathfinder

Seanies32 wrote: »

+1. And I know a fair bit: Stalker Inquiry, Violation of European Human Rights by the RUC in the late 70's, Internment, gerrymandering, GAA grounds occupied/burned and members harassed and killed etc. etc.

When is there going to be an inquiry into the human rights abuses by Sinn Fein leaders, now govt ministers ?

But surly all victims have civil rights ?

And that includes a right to inquries into the actions of SF/IRA, not just 19 year old Paratroopers ?

K-9

Pathfinder wrote: »

When is there going to be an inquiry into the human rights abuses by Sinn Fein leaders, now govt ministers ?

Would that necessarily be a good idea?

duggie-89

Pathfinder wrote: »

The British armies mandate was not to militarily win the war, rather to allow an environment to prevail where democracy could prevail and the civil powers keep authority, which it did.

Violence is not the way forward because too many of your members were getting killed, its all a bit transparent.

It was less then 20 years ago your members were beating people to death at funerals and mutilating them.

And you still destroy wreaths left by families of those who were murdered at Warrenpoint/Narrow water.

I for one would not want such people to have political authority over me and nor would I trust them if they did.

You even have one senior politician in the south (whom I wont name) who is responsible burning 12 members of the NI collie club to death at the La Mon restaurant/hotel and has never shown remorse for his evil actions.

I think of it every time I see him laughing and joking on the telly.

http://www.iraatrocities.fsnet.co.uk/lamon.htm

Twelve people were "Incinerated" when the Provisional IRA/Sinn Fein left a fire-bomb at "La Mon House", Gransha, a country hotel outside Belfast. Of the twelve people killed seven of the victims were women. All who died were attending the Annual dinner dance of the Irish Collie Club and were Protestant Civilians. Three married couples were amongst the dead. Over 400 people were packed into the La Mon hotel on the night of the bombing. Members of the Irish Collie Club and the Northern Ireland Junior Motorcycle Club were settling down to enjoy dinner dances at the popular hotel.

i must just say you really must be full of spite and bitterness. can you not move on???? its people like yourself who are destroying any hope of peace because you have a one track mind.

"attack the IRA, discredit SF, slag of republicans." now just grow up. and how did you move on to talk about atrocrities when the topic is on the ard fheis.

also have you any proof that it was SF members who attacked the warrenpoint memorial??? again you dont have the proof to name the person.

i would also like to point out that you haven't mention one thing about the ard fheis. so i have nothing more to say to you on this thread until you actually start talking about the topic

Pathfinder

The guy responsible for La mon is a senior Sinn Fein political figure, these people are not normal politicans, people like myself will never stop reminding you.

Pathfinder

Seanies32 wrote: »

Would that necessarily be a good idea?

All victims should have civil rights.

That includes the right of an inquiry into the actions of SF/IRA and its MPs, not just into the actions of 19 yr old Paratroopers.

duggie-89

Pathfinder wrote: »

Pitchcapping was a punishment used in the 1800s.

THe PIRA was chaining and tarring and feathering young Catholic women in Belfast in the 1970s, justify that ?

Why not mention the Green and tans ?(formerly Dublin IRA brigade), after all they killed more IRA members the black and tans ever did, maybe thats a bit inconvenient.

History must be turned into propaganda to suit your needs,


You are obviously new to Sinn Feins lies and spin, heres the reality of what they do with power.


Council to vote on removal of unionist symbols



Limavady Borough Council will vote tonight on whether to back a report which favours the removal of British and unionist symbols from Council property.
Members of the nationalist-controlled authority will meet this evening to consider a working group report that recommends the removal of emblems and artefacts from council-owned facilities.

The report is the outcome of a Sinn Fein/SDLP working group that was set up in 2005 to consider creating a 'neutral working space'. Limavady's unionist councillors refused to take up their positions on the group.

Items up for removal include a statue of William Ferguson Massey, an Orangeman who left Limavady as a teenager and went on to become Prime Minister of New Zealand.

Others include a Charles and Diana wedding mug, a Royal British Legion certificate, plates, pictures and paperweights given to the town by visiting soldiers.

ok i know i said before i wasn't going to respond but some one has to your bare faced spin.

as highlighted above neutral working enviroment. the actual aim was to have both traditions or none. once unionist refused which is what they did do the working group went on to try and secure a peaceful enviroment because the loyalsit tradition was being forced in their face.

i also note that you failed to mention that the two SF councillers were attacked by a loyalist mob one night after leaving their officers.

also the UDA tarred and feather two lads in belfast not so long ago, again i dont hear you say anything about that.

but lets move on from this tit for tat slaging all sides have committed and done terrible deeds in the past. but should we as a society always look in the past or the future????

can i just ask what political outlook do you have?? and what party do you support or vote for??? it seems unfair to me that you snipe all day but never show your hand. (and if you have i will stand correct but i haven't seen a post where you say who you vote for.)

duggie-89

Pathfinder wrote: »

But the civil rights movement had achieved its objectives by 71.

After that NI was democratic, one man one vote.

The killing of 13 civilians was obviously a tragic incident, but armies are a last tool of resort and if armed soldiers, many who are still teenagers, are in daily conflict with civilians such things will sometimes happen.

Loyalists were not shot on demos because they by and large were not constantly hostile to the security forces and had far fewer demos.

If the IRA had not risen again the whole thing could have been sorted 35 years ago.

is that what democracy is to you, one man one vote??? there are so many more aspect of a democratic society with freedom of speech to assemble and all the various rights of an individual or group.

your thrid paragraph i would agree with totaly. an army is an action of last resort. but do you realise that what you sad about bloody sunday can also be said for the ira and other terribles acts???? most IRA volunteers were young lads, and they were in daily conflict with the police and the unionist community.

K-9

Pathfinder wrote: »

All victims should have civil rights.

That includes the right of an inquiry into the actions of SF/IRA and its MPs, not just into the actions of 19 yr old Paratroopers.

Is either a good idea?

K-9

Pathfinder wrote: »

The guy responsible for La mon is a senior Sinn Fein political figure, these people are not normal politicans, people like myself will never stop reminding you.

Well Ian Paisley and the DUP seem to think they are normal politicians. Do you realise what you sound like? As bad as any extreme Republican stuck in the past.

TOMASJ

Pathfinder wrote: »

When is there going to be an inquiry into the human rights abuses by Sinn Fein leaders, now govt ministers ?

But surly all victims have civil rights ?

And that includes a right to inquries into the actions of SF/IRA, not just 19 year old Paratroopers ?

I could like yourself, 'without any evidence' call for inquires into certain unionist mp,s sitting in westminister for being involved in very serious human rights abuses, if you have any evidence on any of theses human rights abuses by Sinn Fein leaders, now govt ministers why not go to your old para commanding officer Mike Jackson, And he will sort out them Irish buggers.

Flex

Pathfinder wrote: »

All victims should have civil rights.

That includes the right of an inquiry into the actions of SF/IRA and its MPs, not just into the actions of 19 yr old Paratroopers.

Hi 'true/vesp'. So easy to spot your trademark bitter rants :rolleyes:

oscarBravo

Flex: if you have a problem with a post, report it. That kind of in-thread sniping won't be tolerated from you or anyone else.