France and their great players

AARRRGH

It seems over the past 15 - 20 years France has produced some brilliant footballers.

Did the French FA implement a new youth policy or something like that which we could copy in Ireland?

PHB

Large working class, large immigrant population (who in general tend to be better than normal people), huge population, colonies to pick from, active youth programs, strong national league that the top players leave once they get good enough to allow new players to break through

An Citeog

The French have an excellent national football academy at Clairefontaine where a lot of their youth stars go through. They also iirc spend the most per capita on sports facilites in the world. Think it was somewhere around €150 per head per year, while in England it was about €70. I may have plucked those figures out of my ass though!:D

I think the immigrant population from Africa and the unequal distribution of wealth play a big role in the development of players from an early age aswell.

Raekwon

dublindude wrote: »

It seems over the past 15 - 20 years France has produced some brilliant footballers.

Did the French FA implement a new youth policy or something like that which we could copy in Ireland?

I don't think it is as easy as just implementing a new youth policy.

In regards to France, they have had some amazing players over the years but alot of their players (since the 80's) have been mostly of foreign origin, just like Ireland. Here is a short list of a couple them:

Patrick Vieira (Senegal)
Patrice Evra (Senegal)
Marcel Desailly (Ghana)
Jean Tigana (Mali)
Basile Boli (The Ivory Coast)
Claude Makélélé (Zaire)
Rio Mavuba (Zaire)
Steve Mandanda (Zaire)
Jean-Alain Boumsong (Cameroon)
Florent Malouda (Guyane)
Frédéric Piquionne (New Caledonia)
Luis Fernández (Spain)
Jocelyn Angloma (Guadeloupe)

Plus if I was too get really technical I could say that Zinedine Zidane is Algerian & Thierry Henry is from the West Indies. But they were both born in France

PHB

Indeed, they are the New Zealand of football. That said, they do the same thing in football But it's fine for them, because their national identity isn't tied up with a geographical idea, it's more to do with an idea of citizenship. That's why they'd have no problem if Kaka declared for France, while people in Ireland would still question it.

Pigman II

PHB wrote: »

Indeed, they are the New Zealand of football.

After the last RWC they're also the New Zealand of rugby.

Xavi6

Raekwon wrote: »

Plus if I was too get really technical I could say that Zinedine Zidane is Algerian & Thierry Henry is from the West Indies. But they were both born in France

He's not Algerian, only his parents are. He was born and raised in Marseille.

Raekwon

Xavi6 wrote:

He's not Algerian, only his parents are. He was born and raised in Marseille.

Yeah I know. I said he was born in France.

_blank_

PHB wrote: »

strong national league

dum-didum...

homerjay2005

DesF wrote: »

dum-didum...

sorry des, what is your point here?

Guy:Incognito

homerjay2005 wrote: »

sorry des, what is your point here?

We're all "consumers", he's a "fan" , support the locals, Ireland would win the WC if we all started supporting Shes instead of evil English teams etc, etc, etc.:D

Xavi6

Stekelly wrote: »

We're all "consumers", he's a "fan" , support the locals, Ireland would win the WC if we all started supporting Shes instead of evil English teams etc, etc, etc.:D

We'd certainly have a better chance.

Guy:Incognito

Xavi6 wrote: »

We'd certainly have a better chance.

How many countries with populations of in and around 4million have even come close?(probably even moreso sonce all countries started entering)

Mr. Presentable

Stekelly wrote: »

We're all "consumers", he's a "fan" , support the locals, Ireland would win the WC if we all started supporting Shes instead of evil English teams etc, etc, etc.:D

We might have a better chance if he became a consumer as well as a fan

_blank_

homerjay2005 wrote: »

sorry des, what is your point here?

Hello

Stekelly wrote: »

We're all "consumers", he's a "fan" , support the locals, Ireland would win the WC if we all started supporting Shes instead of evil English teams etc, etc, etc.:D

yadda yadd.

The question was asked...

Did the French FA implement a new youth policy or something like that which we could copy in Ireland?

PHB then mentioned that

Large working class, large immigrant population (who in general tend to be better than normal people), huge population, colonies to pick from, active youth programs, strong national league that the top players leave once they get good enough to allow new players to break through

I agree with him, a strong national league is imperative if Ireland are to progress from the current pile of shíte it is.

Get the players staying in the league until they are 22/23 (Just like Doyle, if Reading go down, he'll be back in the PL within a year, either with them or another club (Sunderland?)), make it attractive for them to stay, make them think that staying here is better for their development than to go and play reserve games in England/Scotland.

IF the eL was stronger, it couldn't but have a positive impact on the national team.

That is my point.

Xavi6

Stekelly wrote: »

How many countries with populations of in and around 4million have even come close?(probably even moreso sonce all countries started entering)

I don't necessarily think we need all our players to play in our own league foe their entire careers but look at the likes of Croatia, Norway, Sweden etc, international teams I would consider around our level. The players all gain experience in their home leagues before deciding to go abroad. They play first team football in a good standard league. Many of them also play together which stands them to good stead for when they step up to the national team.

Sherifu

Happy birthday Xavi6.

As for the french, vavavoom and headbutter are world class alright.

AARRRGH

Considering we all support English teams, watch English teams on TV, and have hundreds of Irish players in the English leagues, couldn't you say the English leagues are kind of our own leagues too?

They just happen to be in a different country, but all our best players play there...

Pigman II

Sherifu wrote: »

headbutter

Is that like headcheese?

Xavi6

Sherifu wrote: »

Happy birthday Xavi6.

Cheers mate. Another year older...etc etc.

Guy:Incognito

dublindude wrote: »

, but all our best players play there...

and a few of our worst.:D

_blank_

dublindude wrote: »

Considering we all support English teams, watch English teams on TV, and have hundreds of Irish players in the English leagues,

What?

Is this a wind-up or what?

Are you serious?

I support Shelbourne, they play in the League of Ireland, ever heard of it?

Seemingly not...

dublindude wrote: »

couldn't you say the English leagues are kind of our own leagues too?

:rolleyes:

Er no.

Ireland has a league to call it's own.

My jesus, this attitude is seriously bewildering.

dublindude wrote: »

They just happen to be in a different country, but all our best players play there...

Yeah, a different country.

Hence, NOT Irish.

AARRRGH

No, you're misunderstanding and over simplifying.

Your argument is our solution to our poor national team is a strong national league.

I am saying since the vast majority of our best players already play in a strong league from a very young age, your argument holds no merit. Moving the English league and the Irish players within that league to Ireland would make no difference to our national team.

Apologies for assuming you supported an English team, although it's a fair statement to make considering you watch and comment on English soccer.

homerjay2005

DesF wrote: »

Hello



IF the eL was stronger, it couldn't but have a positive impact on the national team.

That is my point.

errm, not really.most of the top french players dont play in france and indeed, the french league is not near the top in europe. what we need, is the top irish player playing in england, not in ireland. the premiership is the yardstick, blame brian kerr, blame delaney, blame who ever the ***k u want, but at the end of the day, the el has no and never will have, an impact on the International team.

AARRRGH

homerjay2005 wrote: »

errm, not really.most of the top french players dont play in france and indeed, the french league is not near the top in europe.

Same for Brazil.

_blank_

dublindude wrote: »

Your argument is our solution to our poor national team is a strong national league.

Well, allow me to clarify.

My argument, and others here I might add, is that a strong National League (like, say, Norway, Sweden (countries where the Premiership is equally as popular by the way)) would go some way to improving our national team. I'm not suggesting it would solve all problems, but would play a part.

Thousands of kids go over every year, how many make it?

A tiny minority of those that come back don't go into the national league.

An academy, in tandem with a strong national league, is what is needed.

dublindude wrote: »

I am saying since the vast majority of our best players already play in a strong league from a very young age, your argument holds no merit. Moving the English league and the Irish players within that league to Ireland would make no difference to our national team.

I never said we should move the English league over here.

What?

dublindude wrote: »

Apologies for assuming you supported an English team, although it's a fair statement to make considering you watch and comment on English soccer.

Fairynuff.

AARRRGH

DesF wrote: »

I never said we should move the English league over here.

What?

What I'm saying is the English league, with all its Irish players, just happens to be in England. If we moved it to Ireland, i.e. have a strong national league here, it wouldn't improve our national team.

_blank_

homerjay2005 wrote: »

errm, not really.most of the top french players dont play in france and indeed, the french league is not near the top in europe. what we need, is the top irish player playing in england, not in ireland. the premiership is the yardstick,

But, the better French players don't leave France at 14/15/16 either.

Benzema, Ben Arfa. Recognise them names? Young French players, playing in France.

Where did Evra come from? At what age?

What age did Zidane leave France?

homerjay2005 wrote: »

the french league is not near the top in europe.

Last time I checked there was a French team in the CL QF, and ran a Premiership team close last week.

Top Level : Serie A, La Liga, EPL
Second Level : Bundesliga, Portugal,
Third Level : Eredivisie, Ligue 1

In European leagues standard, I would certainly have France in the top 10.

homerjay2005 wrote: »

blame brian kerr, blame delaney, blame who ever the ***k u want, but at the end of the day, the el has no and never will have, an impact on the International team.

Lie.

dublindude wrote: »

Same for Brazil.

Brazilian players play in the Brazilian league, then leave for europe when they are good enough.

Look at any Brazilian player, you'll see that they have a number of appearances for Brazilian clubs, perhaps even a couple of seasons worth, before coming to Europe.

_blank_

You bastards, I'm after forgetting to turn on The Premiership :mad::mad:

What have I missed?

Pigman II

DesF wrote: »

You bastards, I'm after forgetting to turn on The Premiership :mad::mad:

What have I missed?

You've missed the Villas of Aston vs the Nils of Arse in a war to settle the score.

_blank_

homerjay2005 wrote: »

what we need, is the top irish player playing in england, not in ireland.

I never once said the top Irish players shouldn't be playing abroad, where did you get that from?

I'm saying that if we have a strong national league, the players will stay and develop (like they do in France, Norway, Sweden, Holland (do the top Dutch players play in Holland?)), then move abroad, when they are good enough.

There are a few reasons for this.

1. Talented players won't be going over only to be told "not good enough, seeya", then just drop out of the game completely once they come home.

2. It's always better to be playing in competitive games than in reserve games, this is why the top EPL sides send players on loan to the lower leagues. Keep the Irish youngsters here, playing in the eL, then when they are good enough, happy days, let them go. I've absolutely no issue with that (Kevin Doyle for example).

3. If the players are kept here to be sold later, more money in the League = better league.

shane86

Stekelly wrote: »

We're all "consumers", he's a "fan" , support the locals, Ireland would win the WC if we all started supporting Shes instead of evil English teams etc, etc, etc.:D

Indeed. The majority of French first team regulars play in England, Spain or Italy anyway. Very few stay in the French league, it aint all that. As for the Brazil point IMO most Brazillian stars are in Europe by their late teens. Ditto AAfricans. ffs Eduardo was over so early the Croats rushed through a passport for him.

As for the EL, done to death. English clubs have more money. Brilliant, great, good and even average to poor players will be snapped up by anyone with as much cash as Chelsea to as little as Leicester and Leeds. As for the Brits apparently stealing our teenagers plenty of players have been 19/20 and even older before going to England

DesF wrote: »

My argument, and others here I might add, is that a strong National League (like, say, Norway, Sweden (countries where the Premiership is equally as popular by the way)) would go some way to improving our national team.
.

Since when has the Norwegian national team set the world on fire?

KdjaCL

PHB wrote: »

Indeed, they are the New Zealand of football. That said, they do the same thing in football But it's fine for them, because their national identity isn't tied up with a geographical idea, it's more to do with an idea of citizenship. That's why they'd have no problem if Kaka declared for France, while people in Ireland would still question it.

How do you explain the weekly race riots? They just as racist as us and fickle will abuse black people but cheer black players.

The emergence of the african nations teams as decent teams will hurt france the most, Drogba could have played for France but chose ivory coast, more will do the same as they can be africans and still get the wage a top player gets.

Some players were forced by clubs to declare for france due to the foreigner rule and and non eu quotas.

Eto drogba essien etc: proving you dont need to declare for european teams anymore.


kdjac

Peyton Manning

France are fairly spoilt when it comes to exciting young talent.

Samir Nasri and Karim Benzema are obviously the two big ones right now. Plus if reports about Henri Saivet's potential are true (from both media and football manager lol) then we have another one coming through.

KdjaCL

Archimedes wrote: »

Samir Nasri and Karim Benzema are obviously the two big ones right now.

Such a shame Algeria are not very good. Nasri had to declare for france to get his pro contract at marseille and Benzema got a 10 year contract to declare for france.

Maybe Pats can get Ndo to declare for ireland by threatening his career*.



*sarcasm ndo has 22 caps for Cameroon and played vs ireland in 2002 WC.



kdjac

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

MIN2511

It's all about growth, in Ireland we don't take soccer as seriously as France or England. We are more into Gaelic and Rugby, which is fair enough.

homerjay2005

MIN2511 wrote: »

It's all about growth, in Ireland we don't take soccer as seriously as France or England. We are more into Gaelic and Rugby, which is fair enough.

Rugby, are we???????? soccer is played by more youngsters now than any other sport. The grassroots soccer over the past 10 years has grown immensly and will continue to grow. there is trojan work being done that we cant see, but i have seen it at local level. soccer is thriving in ireland. GAA is number one, and perhaps will be for years, but that is a part of our heritage.

Rugby, your having a laugh. Rugby is something that we are only interested in when there is some big game on, nothing else. Rugby in Ireland is followed by a select bunch fanatically and then the rest is only a passing interest. Personally, i hate rugby fans but that is only my opinion. We may support Ireland and the likes of Ulster, Munster and Leinster when there are big games on, but how many people will be at a League game between say Shannon and some team outside of Munster? very little i can guarantee ya. It may come as a surprise (cos it did to me) that Rugby is only the 5th most played game in Ireland, Adults and Kids.

Everybody on here im sure could name every Eircom League Soccer club for example, whereas, how many people would actually know the names of alot of the top Rugby club teams? not that it matters, but just pointing it out that as far as most people are concerned, Rugby is about Ireland and the heineken cup. In soccer,there is now a local club in every area of ireland, you cant say that for rugby.



1st - Gaa Football
2nd - Gaa Hurling.
3rd - Soccer.
4th - BASKETBALL:eek:
5th - Rugby.

DSB

dublindude wrote: »

Considering we all support English teams, watch English teams on TV, and have hundreds of Irish players in the English leagues, couldn't you say the English leagues are kind of our own leagues too?

They just happen to be in a different country, but all our best players play there...

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

PHB

KdjaCL wrote: »

How do you explain the weekly race riots? They just as racist as us and fickle will abuse black people but cheer black players.
kdjac

It depends if you see them as race riots, or riots because they don't have jobs and their government ignore them. It's not about race, in reality, they are never really about race. Race is just an excuse, and an easy way for the government to tarnish them without addressing the real issues.

AARRRGH

DSB wrote: »

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Care to elaborate?

Harpy

DesF wrote: »

Well, allow me to clarify.

My argument, and others here I might add, is that a strong National League (like, say, Norway, Sweden (countries where the Premiership is equally as popular by the way)) would go some way to improving our national team. I'm not suggesting it would solve all problems, but would play a part.



What?


Fairynuff.

I agree here about sweden the support over there is very impressive but again sweden has double the population of ireland..also they have the facilities there.The teams have nice stadiums and good facilities.. I think these things have to be provided in ireland before people start taking a big interest..at the moment its to easy for us to just watch english football and because we are able to watch top class players play week in week out in premier league ,we just don't make the effort to go to the el matches..
I'm always saying to myself aw id love to start goin to watch my local team play but then im just like ah its windy or wet i couldn't be ar*ed i always just seem to make an excuse...

I agree with DesF and there's nothing more that id like to see then the EL develop more and all that but i think we're a long way off it and personally i don't know if we're going to see it happen at all.. people are happy to watch the premier league(myself included) so don't care about the EL that much

DSB

By your ridiculous, slanted and flawed logic, Fabregas and Ronaldo are Irish really. Since so many Irish fans support them. The Premiership is an English League, The League Of Ireland, is an Irish league. If you don't choose to support it, that's fair enough, but don't be so ignorant as to ignore its existence.

Edit: Directed at Dublindude.

AARRRGH

DSB wrote: »

By your ridiculous, slanted and flawed logic, Fabregas and Ronaldo are Irish really. Since so many Irish fans support them. The Premiership is an English League, The League Of Ireland, is an Irish league. If you don't choose to support it, that's fair enough, but don't be so ignorant as to ignore its existence.

Edit: Directed at Dublindude.

I never said anything like that.

DesF and others are saying the best solution to our national team is developing a strong national league.

I am saying this:

Most soccer fans in Ireland grow up watching English soccer and support English teams. They dream of playing for Liverpool, Man U, etc. They do not dream of playing for Shelbourne or Bohemians and in general have little interest in the Irish league.

Irish players who are good enough move to England at a young age and play in the English league. We have hundreds of players in England.

The English league just happens to be in England. If it was in Ireland, we'd still have the same players playing in the same league. I know this is hard to grasp. In simple terms, the location of the league is unimportant if it is strong and we have many players there.

As others have pointed out, the French league isn't particularly strong.

The problem is not where the players are playing, it's that we've a small population and we don't have a culture of nurturing soccer talent or encouraging creative play.

DSB

The location is definitely important, its far more stable for a young player to be living at home with his family and friends who will keep him with the right attitude to develop as a player.

Nunu

DesF wrote: »

Top Level : Serie A, La Liga, EPL
Second Level : Bundesliga, Portugal,
Third Level : Eredivisie, Ligue 1

The Portuguese league is definitely inferior to the French league.

Top Level : Serie A, La Liga, EPL
Second Level : Bundesliga, Ligue 1
Third Level : Eredivisie, Portugal

AARRRGH

You're probably right.

I would certainly love if we had a strong local league.

DSB

dublindude wrote: »

You're probably right.

I would certainly love if we had a strong local league.

It's developing slowly, but surely. The increased TV attention it's getting will only serve to help. And once peoples mindsets towards the league begin to change, who knows where the league can go?

LeixlipRed

I often wonder if when we have (if we ever have) 10k average attendances in the EL will people like me, DesF, KdjacL, etc, still bitch about how we were there first

Gavin "shels"

homerjay2005 wrote: »

1st - Gaa Football
2nd - Gaa Hurling.
3rd - Soccer.
4th - BASKETBALL:eek:
5th - Rugby.

Someresearch next time you want to back up an arguement. It's actually;

1st - Hurling
2nd - Soccer
3rd - Football

Mr. Presentable

dublindude wrote: »

Considering we all support English teams, watch English teams on TV, and have hundreds of Irish players in the English leagues, couldn't you say the English leagues are kind of our own leagues too?

They just happen to be in a different country, but all our best players play there...

Is this supposed to be a serious post? "We" don't all support English teams. No, you could not say the English league is "kind of" one of our own.