doing it yourself?

CamperMan

Hi,

has anyone here actually drawn plans, site layouts, etc themselves without the use of an architect, submitted the plans to the council and got your planning permission?

Money is tight so we would like to do as much as possible ourselves, we have the land, what are the steps we should take to get plans ready for sending to the council? I know we will need a site assessment done (the land is in Leitrim), what other steps do we need to do?

thanks.

Simon

muffler

CamperMan wrote: »

Hi,

has anyone here actually drawn plans, site layouts, etc themselves without the use of an architect, submitted the plans to the council and got your planning permission?

Money is tight so we would like to do as much as possible ourselves, we have the land, what are the steps we should take to get plans ready for sending to the council? I know we will need a site assessment done (the land is in Leitrim), what other steps do we need to do?

thanks.

Simon

There have been one or two posts here in the past from users who have done this - some successfully, others not. There is a lot more to it than you think with design being a common stumbling block followed by details of vision lines, contour survey/levels, traffic impact statements, services, waste and storm water disposal, rural housing requirements etc etc.

As you will need a detailed construction drawing in any event I would advise you to engage an architect/engineer/technician to undertake the entire project.

Read the "planning issues" thread that is stickied on the front page or look back through the last few pages and you will see the problems that people face at times. Unless you are familiar with planning legislation, procedures and the requirements of the county development plan for your area then you should definitely engage a professional.

CamperMan

what sort of money does it cost to get architects/engineers involved?

Simon

I did my own plans & application etc, and as Muffler says there are a large number of pitfalls.
I was fortunate in the fact that where I was building many of the "gotchas" didn't apply, but I did spend a lot of time speaking to planners and others before submitting my application.

Most importantly; get an engineer to "supervise" what you do!

And yes they were approved & I am living in the resault!

davidoco

I'm moderately skilled in using CAD and was able to draw up plans for two planning application but I fell down on some of the finer details of the application which meant both were returned at validation stage. The number of little issues would break your heart, mine were the contour lines (which are usually easy enough to do), putting the wrong colour on a particular boundary, putting the site notice up too early (I actually entered a date on the app which was too early to put up the notice) etc etc.

All these silly mistakes would be covered naturally by somebody doing plans on a regular basis, perhaps if your looking to save some money look for a draughsperson to run off your plans and lodge the app. You’ll probably save up to half.

Jimbo

I have to say submitting a valid planning app is not as easy as it may sound. I have been doing it for years and I still get the odd application rejected because I forgot to tick a box, forgot a dimension or a line etc. We sometimes get people coming to us that tried to apply themselves and fail and then ask us to do it for them. They waste about a month in the process. Its not worth even tring IMO if you dont know what your doing

AckwelFoley

The one part of construction i refuse to do is design anything. Even for my own sisters house im working on, they decided after the house had started that they wanted to go ahead with the rooms upostairs in the dormer attic.

I told them to get a layout of what they wanted before i satrted to stud out the rooms

Its not as siimple as people think to properly design a house, best using the availinle space

smashey

I had one invalidated a few weeks ago.

Except the Council made the mistake, not me.

I spoke to the guy who validates the applications and he now owes me a favour.

A big favour.

Mellor

no north sign on your elevations again smashey

Mellor

Mellor wrote: »

no north sign on your elevations again smashey

I had my application delayed because I didn't have the north sign on the OS maps, why the OS maps, it's convention that north is always up! :mad:

smashey

Mellor wrote: »

no north sign on your elevations again smashey

I wish. The newspaper notice was published on the 2nd of the month and I lodged the plans on the 15th. The guy validating them sent them back with the reason that they were lodged outside the permitted period. As I said, he owes me a favour now.

Deleted User wrote: »

I had my application delayed because I didn't have the north sign on the OS maps, why the OS maps, it's convention that north is always up! :mad:

You no longer have to show the north sign on the OS map.

Slates

CamperMan wrote: »

Hi,

has anyone here actually drawn plans, site layouts, etc themselves without the use of an architect, submitted the plans to the council and got your planning permission?

Money is tight so we would like to do as much as possible ourselves, we have the land, what are the steps we should take to get plans ready for sending to the council? I know we will need a site assessment done (the land is in Leitrim), what other steps do we need to do?

thanks.

Simon

I'm done my own planning application and house design myself. I started the process in mid Oct, submitted the application mid Dec and got full planning on the 11 Feb.

I'm an Architectural technician but this was my first application, I went to a group preplanning meeting which was top class and took alot of care filling out the application and getting the supporting documentation.

The full thing cost me €450

muffler

Slates wrote: »

I'm done my own planning application and house design myself. I started the process in mid Oct, submitted the application mid Dec and got full planning on the 11 Feb.

I'm an Architectural technician but this was my first application, I went to a group preplanning meeting which was top class and took alot of care filling out the application and getting the supporting documentation.

The full thing cost me €450

How did it cost you that amount if you did the work yourself?

Mellor

Variation in newspaper price

Slates

muffler wrote: »

How did it cost you that amount if you did the work yourself?

I had to use an engineer with indemnity insurance to do the perc test

Mellor

Its a strange issue. Generally, I feel that anyone can prepare a planning permission if they can manage the drawings. Most LAs have a validation checklist (Dublin citys is quite good). If you follow all the guidelines and checklist, validation will not be a problem. After that it is down to design and merits of the job.

BUT that said, alot of the design elements will need to be sorted at this stage. Tackling the design of a house is alot harder than the planning. Sorting the design afterwards will not be easy. If you are not up to the job then you will need a professional to sort it.

muffler

Mellor wrote: »

Variation in newspaper price

You're being ripped off if you are being charged the cost of a site assessment for a newspaper notice

CamperMan

Slates wrote: »

I'm done my own planning application and house design myself. I started the process in mid Oct, submitted the application mid Dec and got full planning on the 11 Feb.

I'm an Architectural technician but this was my first application, I went to a group preplanning meeting which was top class and took alot of care filling out the application and getting the supporting documentation.

The full thing cost me €450

€450.... that's more like it, I got a price from a firm for €400 + VAT to do the site assessment, but I have to dig the holes myself.

CamperMan

if I were to draw the plans myself, what size do the planners need them, what I mean is, I only have an A4 printer, so the house plans would be on several A4 sheets, front elevation on one, rear on another and so on, would they accept this?

Simon

Jimbo

CamperMan wrote: »

if I were to draw the plans myself, what size do the planners need them, what I mean is, I only have an A4 printer, so the house plans would be on several A4 sheets, front elevation on one, rear on another and so on, would they accept this?

Simon

Sheet page isn't an issue. Scale is.

Absolute minimum scale allowed is 1:200 for house plans etc. 1:500 for the site layout. You could be hard pushed to fit you site layout on an A4. Could you not save the drawings to disk and print elsewhere?

CamperMan

jimbo78 wrote: »

Sheet page isn't an issue. Scale is.

Absolute minimum scale allowed is 1:200 for house plans etc. 1:500 for the site layout. You could be hard pushed to fit you site layout on an A4. Could you not save the drawings to disk and print elsewhere?

Thanks Jimbo78, nice idea saving it to disk and getting someone else to print it.

Simon

Once I was realy stuck for finding another A3 printer (the one I had died!, rip)
I got away with printing on two A4's and sticking them together for one site layout.
Then taking it into the local library and photocopying up to A3 (in hindsight it is also possible to print a scaled down A3 on A4 paper, and then enlarge to A3 on the photocopier (risky)).

sinnerboy

what are you hoping to "save" by doing your own application

buy some self build mags . buy some design mags . look at back episodes of relevant TV programmes .

an inciteful contextual design will repay many times over the investment you are about to make

you may spend 15k on a kitchen , to be ripped out in as many years .

spend that on a full design to completion service and you will be repayed many times over

250882

The injector pump on my jeep needs to be reconditioned, but even though money is tight and I know a little about mechanics I think I'll leave it to the professionals as I could try taking apart and fixing it but if i mess it up enough times it will start to cost me a lot of money, its the same with house design and planning.
Enough invalidations and reprints of newspaper notices and you'll get very sick of it.
The design of the house might suit you but will it comply with the regulations. Do you know the minimum height of a room, where escape windows are needed and what size, the requirements for part M (wheelchair accessable bathrooms, level access at main entrance, minimum door sizes etc.)
Where will you find the appropriate size and positioning of treatment plant and percolation areas, soak pits etc. gradients of roads, levels and site contours etc.
There are a lot of ways of saving money on the build but in my experience if ou cut out the professionals you could end up losing money through unrealistic budgets and timescales or building something that the enforcement section of the LA might have a problem with.

dfcelt

If you are handy with cad, know whats required of an application & have time (plenty of it :rolleyes:) then go for it. I submitted mine in January and decision is due in April.
Investigate plenty of other recent applications on your (county)coco.ie website to get a feel for what designs are a no etc. Most now put up all aspects of individual applicants including correspondence from planners to applicants etc.
Go through your counties development plan, don't skip anything!

I paid 600 for EPA certified engineer to carry out percolation tests & to survey the land & supply me with O.S. map imported into cad format with levels and cut sections. Worth every penny imo.

Image of site notice drg:

CamperMan

dfcelt wrote: »

If you are handy with cad, know whats required of an application & have time (plenty of it :rolleyes:) then go for it. I submitted mine in January and decision is due in April.
Investigate plenty of other recent applications on your (county)coco.ie website to get a feel for what designs are a no etc. Most now put up all aspects of individual applicants including correspondence from planners to applicants etc.
Go through your counties development plan, don't skip anything!

I paid 600 for EPA certified engineer to carry out percolation tests & to survey the land & supply me with O.S. map imported into cad format with levels and cut sections. Worth every penny imo.

Image of site notice drg:

I have a copy of the local county development plan, and I look at the granted & refused applications on the council website, the ones that seem to be refused are applications for a new build on less than 0.75 of an acre, or problems with sitelines, does anyone know about sitelines and the rules, our plot is on a little used country lane, maybe 10 or 20 cars use it each day.

Simon

Someone posted up the sightline details somewhere on this forum a few months ago. Have a search I'm sure there here somewhere.

dfcelt

Heres the Louth Coco drg. You'll need to investigate Dev.Plan for dimensions. I'm hoping to build on a similar type of lane, I believe in Louth its category C road or something to that effect. Basically "Y" was 75m when I checked it for my application.
In Louth .2 hectare (1/2 acre) is minimum site size.

Mellor

CamperMan wrote: »

if I were to draw the plans myself, what size do the planners need them, what I mean is, I only have an A4 printer, so the house plans would be on several A4 sheets, front elevation on one, rear on another and so on, would they accept this?

Simon

Their are a list of min scales available online, it varies for each drawing.
There are many places where you can print up to A0 for cheap enough. What program will you be drawing with?

Mellor

dfcelt wrote: »

If you are handy with cad, know whats required of an application & have time (plenty of it :rolleyes:) then go for it. I submitted mine in January and decision is due in April.

One thing that people don't consider is how much is their time worth.
How much do you value an hour of your time. Some people won't have a clue, but alot of people work work as a professional (in any field) might know.

If you do it your self, it might take you 5 times as long or more. Is your time worth this. For example, if youbody took time from work or other comittments to complete a package. It may cost more due to loss of income, even though their was no apparent cost.

sinnerboy

Mellor wrote: »

One thing that people don't consider is how much is their time worth.
How much do you value an hour of your time. Some people won't have a clue, but alot of people work work as a professional (in any field) might know.

If you do it your self, it might take you 5 times as long or more. Is your time worth this. For example, if youbody took time from work or other comittments to complete a package. It may cost more due to loss of income, even though their was no apparent cost.

About 8 years ago a sparky pal of mine built a house beside his mothers house ( large side garden infill )

1000 sq ft - he got a builder price for IR£ 65k , to builder finish .

Decided he would build it himself - direct labour , he decided he was a ( full time ) builder himself .

He ( with some justification ) felt proud to bring it in 12 months later , decorated , kitchen in , flooring down but no externals ( footpaths , garden walls / gates ) for ......IR£ 65k !

He smiled a little less when I asked "so how much sparky wage did you NOT earn last year ?"

He smiled again and thought - "best experience ever , learned a lot and the sense of satisfaction could not priced" .

Happy ending , but each can take from the tale what they wish .....

( Still no gates up )

dfcelt

Mellor, Sinnerboy, couldn't agree more with your comments.
In relation to time, I was able to spend time at work completing these drgs, I never let it effect social/family life. I know I'm lucky in that regard as most people will not be in a similar position, as such I would advise them to spend the money on a professional. I began on Dec 28th, set myself a deadline of 1month & submitted application two weeks after my own deadline i.e. six weeks (hours unknown). Others could do it in far less time, one aspect that stumped my own deadline was finding out that my 3000 sq ft design had to be reduced to 2400 sq ft when i was 70% complete :mad: Entirely my own fault & a competent individual whose at this lark daily would have known same from the beginning.
However the satisfaction on completing your own application in tandem with the knowledge gained, like the housebuild of sinnerboys mate, cannot be measured.
Its all down to the individual really. Competence, ability, relevant knowledge, personal situation, time available etc,etc. For the majority there is no question that a professional would be better suited.

Money: No question, unless your company is very understanding you're going to lose income. If you're self-employed its 100% certain you're going to lose out.

I know too many tradespeople to allow a builder to complete the project from start to finish
I will go down the direct labour route myself if successful, I have an understanding boss
I couldn't contemplate a self build project due to the timeframe & amount of time away from family, not to mention lack of ability!

Different strokes for different folks.....

CamperMan

Thanks for the advice, we ended getting an architect to do the plans and deal with the planners, I didn't want to risk f**king the planning application up, the house plans have been drawn up and the architect was on site today plotting the site plan and sorting out the percolation test...., hopefully the application should be submitted soon...

Simon

Tomboy

I recently found out not through the council but through my local TD that I have recently been successful in obtaining planning permission. I prepared the application myself. As some of the other posters mentioned there are a number pitfalls and "gotchas" that can fail or invalidate your application.

Before you start consult your local development plan. This will outline your local authorities guidlines with regard to development within their area. I would highly reccommend a pre planning meeting with the planner responsible for the area in which you propose to build. The planer will be able to tll you what designs will be acceptable for your site and whether or not you site would receive planning. Read the Guidlines for sustainable rural development. This is a department of environment publication and all local authorities will abide by this. There is so much more I can tell you. You will need letters from the landowner if the site is not in your name giving you permission to build on the site. You will require land holding information from the Land registry. If you war proposeing to join a group water scheme you will require a letter from them stating that it is your intention to join and that they have no objections. There is much much more. You local authority's website should have information with regards to making the applicaton. Roscommon Co Co website has some good information with regards what should be included in an application and will give you a taste to what is involved. On poster mentioned north signs. The north sign should be on all plans including floor plans. Best of luck with your application. If you need advice just PM me.

Slig

Tomboy wrote: »

I recently found out not through the council but through my local TD that I have recently been successful in obtaining planning permission. I prepared the application myself. As some of the other posters mentioned there are a number pitfalls and "gotchas" that can fail or invalidate your application.

Before you start consult your local development plan. This will outline your local authorities guidlines with regard to development within their area. I would highly reccommend a pre planning meeting with the planner responsible for the area in which you propose to build. The planer will be able to tll you what designs will be acceptable for your site and whether or not you site would receive planning. Read the Guidlines for sustainable rural development. This is a department of environment publication and all local authorities will abide by this. There is so much more I can tell you. You will need letters from the landowner if the site is not in your name giving you permission to build on the site. You will require land holding information from the Land registry. If you war proposeing to join a group water scheme you will require a letter from them stating that it is your intention to join and that they have no objections. There is much much more. You local authority's website should have information with regards to making the applicaton. Roscommon Co Co website has some good information with regards what should be included in an application and will give you a taste to what is involved. On poster mentioned north signs. The north sign should be on all plans including floor plans. Best of luck with your application. If you need advice just PM me.

Personally I put absolutely no faith in local TDs and planning applications, you might as well have gotten the news from the milkman.
Generally they have no knowledge of the planning process and I have seen them advising clients to sue their architects if they get an FI, apply for planning on sites where a pre-planning has said no and telling clients they have planning permission on a Friday just for the refusal to arrive on Monday.
Be Wary:mad:

CamperMan

We have already done the pre planning meeting, we own the land outright, there isn't a group water scheme in the area so a well will be bored...., site assessment has been carried out. I know what was needed, we just decided to get an architect to do it for us.

Tomboy wrote: »

Before you start consult your local development plan. This will outline your local authorities guidlines with regard to development within their area. I would highly reccommend a pre planning meeting with the planner responsible for the area in which you propose to build. The planer will be able to tll you what designs will be acceptable for your site and whether or not you site would receive planning. Read the Guidlines for sustainable rural development. This is a department of environment publication and all local authorities will abide by this. There is so much more I can tell you. You will need letters from the landowner if the site is not in your name giving you permission to build on the site. You will require land holding information from the Land registry. If you war proposeing to join a group water scheme you will require a letter from them stating that it is your intention to join and that they have no objections. There is much much more. You local authority's website should have information with regards to making the applicaton. Roscommon Co Co website has some good information with regards what should be included in an application and will give you a taste to what is involved. On poster mentioned north signs. The north sign should be on all plans including floor plans. Best of luck with your application. If you need advice just PM me.