Fire Regulations

Pete35

Hi,

I'm in the mist of a self build and my engineer tells me that I need to change the layout of my open plan Living - dining - kitchen as I have a stairs in the living room which is not permitted?? I have seen examples of this in every magazine I have read over the last 5-6 years and have self designed the house with this idea in mind. It is proving very difficult to change my design as it would require me to close off the living room with a double door and this just does not work. Have the regulations changed? Can anyone shed some light on the regs? My engineer will not sign off the house if the work is not done.

Pete

ircoha

Pete35 wrote: »

Hi,

I'm in the mist of a self build and my engineer tells me that I need to change the layout of my open plan Living - dining - kitchen as I have a stairs in the living room which is not permitted?? I have seen examples of this in every magazine I have read over the last 5-6 years and have self designed the house with this idea in mind. It is proving very difficult to change my design as it would require me to close off the living room with a double door and this just does not work. Have the regulations changed? Can anyone shed some light on the regs? My engineer will not sign off the house if the work is not done.

Pete

these are the regs
http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad,1640,en.pdf

I would imagine the design is failing the protected shaft provisions:

Protected Shafts
3.2.7 Any stairway or other shaft passing directly
from one compartment to another, should be
enclosed so as to delay or prevent the spread of fire
between compartments, and is termed a protected
shaft.

Just wondering if u can provide a fire escape route from all the habitable rooms upstairs and if the doors to these rooms were self-closing and fire-rated.

Mellor

How many stories is the building?
Its not allowed dependant on that. Have a look through the regs, its a big document but the relevent parts are easy to find.

Jimbo

Is your stairs discharging into a kitchen? If so, thats the problem.
In a dwelling, you can have it dischage into another habitable room (not a kitchen) but there has to be an exit within 4.5m of the bottom of the stairs

Mellor

Pete35 wrote: »

. It is proving very difficult to change my design as it would require me to close off the living room with a double door and this just does not work.
Pete

jimbo78 wrote: »

Is your stairs discharging into a kitchen? If so, thats the problem.

Its not just kitchen, in certain situation you can't have stairs into any room

Pete35

Hi all,
Thanks for the info.

The regs seem pretty clear as quoted by Ircoha. Glass Bi fold doors would look much better but having searched to internet the cost would be €5,000 - €6,000 approx. which is a bit too much for me. I have the required exit within 4.5m of the stairs. It's a single story house with the attic converted at the construction stage. My engineer is happy with the upstairs layout with just the one big issue as posted. I will keep racking my brain for a cheaper solution cause I can't stand the double doors & frame I had made up.

Pete

sydthebeat

Pete35 wrote: »

Hi all,
Thanks for the info.

The regs seem pretty clear as quoted by Ircoha. Glass Bi fold doors would look much better but having searched to internet the cost would be €5,000 - €6,000 approx. which is a bit too much for me. I have the required exit within 4.5m of the stairs. It's a single story house with the attic converted at the construction stage. My engineer is happy with the upstairs layout with just the one big issue as posted. I will keep racking my brain for a cheaper solution cause I can't stand the double doors & frame I had made up.

Pete

that layout is works ok from a fire reg point of view... the door 10-21-21l (?) is the door that will comply with escape regs. The double doors between the kitchen and the living space should have 30 mins fire resistance.

Fom an architectural point of view, you really should have a door between the corridor and the Lving room. The way it currently is, you have a through draugh whenever the front door and either living room door are opened together... very bad for energy efficiency..... plus, an open plan arrangement usually negates the use of a corridor, but since you have one, you should door it off from the living room.

Also, the location of the living room, kitchen and bathrooms really ought to be looked at....
having a utility and kitchen on the south wall when a living room is in the north west corner is not optional.

Mellor

As it is two story it is fine from a fire regs point of view. You couldn't do this in a converted attic in a regular house. This is likely the source of the confusion.

The part of the regs that ircoha quoted refers to compartments and doesn't apply to a two story house, its refers to larger buildings that may be separted off to reduce required facilities.

muffler

Mellor wrote: »

As it is two story it is fine from a fire regs point of view. You couldn't do this in a converted attic in a regular house. This is likely the source of the confusion.

The part of the regs that ircoha quoted refers to compartments and doesn't apply to a two story house, its refers to larger buildings that may be separted off to reduce required facilities.

Agreed. The compartments as mentioned by ircoha are not relevant in this instance.

The OP should look at the part of the regs that apply to dwelling houses of no more that 2 storeys.

sinnerboy

Agree with all above .

Main issue of stairs in living room , in this case , is non issue

Consider
as Syd said a door way between hall / living room
remove hall / kitchen door - make window 10-16-F an external door ( for when back from shops )
move the rear door closer to the foot of the stairs ( you may need to reach this door when building is smoke filled )
make the draft lobby min 2000 deep internally - DEAP only then considers it valid