iphone launch

Dman001

I think I will wait for the 6G. iPod.

art

rc28 wrote:

You are beating around the bush and it's getting pathetic now. The fact is the n95 is 679euro sim free right now in ireland while the iPhone is $600 on 2 year contract on BILL PAY which means hefty monthly installments.
Also as guiguy said above the n95 can be got for much cheaper (450) but retailers know they can milk this because of the n95 amazing feature list which is unmatched by any other manufacturer, especially not the iPhone.

that's a laugh, I'm being pathetic for explaining where I took my figures from? Nice :rolleyes: And I'm supposed to be taking you seriously after you've mixed up data on battery life, mixed up data on prices, have posted links to data that contradicts your own argument, and now are taking recourse to ignoring completely information provided to you in my posts? (ps: in order to use the N95, you need to actually also pay money to an operator. It's not just the iPhone that has a monthly operating cost!)

Now cop on ffs with this silly ranting and get some perspective. Until the iPhone has a carrier in Europe, and a release plan, comparisons of costs are completely phony - though if the price does translate to 600 euros sim free, I doubt that would be considered by people in general to be excessively expensive.

rc28

art wrote:

rolleyes: And I'm supposed to be taking you seriously after you've mixed up data on battery life, mixed up data on prices

Excuse me?? I havn't mixed up anything about the prices or the battery life. I said that the iphone battery starts dying after 300 charges which is a fact:
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/apple/everything-we-know-about-the-iphone-272827.php
What prices have I mixed up? I have stated the cost of the n95 and the iphone in the us as it currently stands.
The following is taken directly from gizmodo just to clarify some things:

What it doesn't have:
• Support for all iPod accessories—doesn't support all car adapters for playing back, only charging
• An easy way to transfer phone numbers,from an existing phone
• Copy and paste support
• MP3/iTunes music ringtones
• Built-in game support
• Flash support anywhere (including browser)
• Instant Messaging
• Picture messaging (MMS)
• Video recording
• Voice recognition or voice dialing
• Wireless Bluetooth Stereo Streaming (A2DP support)
• One-size-fits-all headset jack (May have to buy an adapter for certain headphones)
• 3G (EV-DO/HSDPA)
• A hardware keyboard
• GPS
• Removable battery
• Expandable Storage
• Direct iTunes Music Store Access (Over Wi-Fi or EDGE)
• BlackBerry support
• Flash or zoom on the camera
• Windows Media support


Known Problems:
• Can get a little warm after use
• Battery will need to be replaced by Apple after 300-400 charges
• Levy had problems with one of his email accounts, due to his ISP blocking port 25. Apple's engineers "suggested a fix and said that this was something that would probably be addressed in an update."
• EDGE data is very slow
• No hardware playback buttons make you go back to the iPod app to change songs or stop music
• Takes more taps to reach the phone interface than other smartphones
• Getting your contacts onto here from your old phone may be a hassle
• No real-time navigation
• The few web-app programs Mossberg tried weren't' impressive
• Camera is only good with ample light and no motion
• Only 200 text messages included on any calling plan
• Playing back music through an iPod dock may cause interference, so the iPhone "offered to switch to airplane mode". Doing so means you get no calls.

art

rc28 wrote:

Excuse me?? I havn't mixed up anything about the prices or the battery life. I said that the iphone battery starts dying after 300 charges which is a fact:

Read the thread back, you've already been corrected on your mis-reading of that, not just by me.

also, you seem to have, for some reason, left out a considerable chunk of the article you link to - though this list does leave out some things too.

What it has:
• Built-in iPod with Video playback
• Intelligent predictive typing
• Multi-touch interface (fast)
• Great scratch resistant screen (easily cleaned with your sleeve)
• Tilt sensors that lock the screen when up to your face, but unlocks it when you lower it to type numbers
• Screen that's visible in direct sunlight
• Software upgrades over time
• Decent voice quality
• Call and song control from its headphones
• Viewing Word, Excel and PDF documents
• Free live traffic in Google Maps
• Turn by turn directions that simulate a GPS (need to tell the phone when you're turning)
• Dedicated volume control and mute switch
• Microsoft Exchange support if your IT staff enables a setting on the server
• Push email via Yahoo Mail
• Syncing via Outlook calendar and contacts through iTunes (works even on Vista with the latest Outlook)
• Ability to play with other applications while you talk
• Good battery life
• A "real" browser
• Yahoo, Gmail, AOL, EarthLink, and various other email support
• Visual voicemail (support for rewinding, fast forwarding like a song)
• YouTube support
• Decent 2-megapixel camera
• It's thin
• Lots of eye candy
• Conference call with up to 5 people
• Built-in speakers if you don't want to use headphones
• Quicktime support in Safari
• Activating the phone requires iTunes and internet access
• A speakerphone

flogen

rc28 wrote:

What it doesn't have:
• Support for all iPod accessories—doesn't support all car adapters for playing back, only charging

When have apple ever released a new product that is compatible with accessories from other products? Even newer generations of standard iPods don't fit accessories from previous ones, so why is this a surprise?

• An easy way to transfer phone numbers,from an existing phone

This could be a pain - I don't really keep my contacts on my PC, I keep them (or at least all my numbers) on my phone

• Copy and paste support

Meh.

• MP3/iTunes music ringtones

For some reason I'm not surprised by this, but I hope they'll open up the ringtones and allow people to add their own.
edit: apparently you will be able to make your own... at a cost. 99c to edit an available song down to a 30 second clip? Fúck off - i'll stick with my tame built-in tones, thanks. Maybe they might let you edit songs you already own for free... it'd be criminal if they don't.

• Built-in game support

Weird, given that they've been working on games for iPod lately - but it's not something that would bother me personally as I never play games on my phone.

• Flash support anywhere (including browser)

This would be more of an issue if it wasn't for the YouTube feature

• Instant Messaging

Never IM'd on my phone - a lot of that's because I hate trying to talk in real time on a numeric key pad...

• Picture messaging (MMS)

I think I may have once sent an MMS in the 3 years or so of having phones that were able to do it - that said it's weird to have a phone with a camera that can't send MMSs - even the few phones left that don't come with cameras can do that, sure!

• Video recording

A shame and hopefully one they'll review - I imagine a firmware upgrade could solve this tbh

• Voice recognition or voice dialing

Never use this... might be a pain for people with hands free kits etc.

• Wireless Bluetooth Stereo Streaming (A2DP support)

Meh

• One-size-fits-all headset jack (May have to buy an adapter for certain headphones)

Can anyone expand on this? I assume it's a standard 1/4 inch headphone jack just like on an iPod?? I mean, not all headsets fit in that either, but the predominant type used in portable music players do.

• 3G (EV-DO/HSDPA)

This needs to change for a European launch - if it doesn't they're idiots.

• A hardware keyboard

Eh, duh... that's one of the main fúcking selling points.

• GPS

Meh.

• Removable battery

Kinda-meh

• Expandable Storage

Considering the fact that 700MB goes on computer software, you're effectively left with a 3GB and 7GB model... it'd be nice to be able to drop a 2GB SD card in there, and God knows they're far from obtrusive (especially when you look at SDmini and micro, which are capable of massive sizes despite being as big as a midget's freckle.)
The reason for this? They're already at risk of canibalising the nano market and don't want to do any more damage in that regard. My prediction is that the Nano is upgraded to 10 and 15gb models in the coming months, and opening the iPhone to removable storage could eat into that too, so they're cutting that off at the pass.

• Direct iTunes Music Store Access (Over Wi-Fi or EDGE)

This is a shame too, a real missed opportunity... Imagine hearing a song in HMV, whipping out your iPhone and getting onto the (3G!) network, downloading it in iTunes and walking out, chuckling at the huge saving you've just made!

• BlackBerry support

Wha'? Why would they have Blackberry support? Wouldn't that be like having support for some Nokia services too?

• Flash or zoom on the camera

From experience with my N80 the flash makes a tiny difference except in the rarest of environments. And are they talking about digital zoom, because they hardly mean optical zoom... If they want digital zoom tell them to take the photo, put it on their PC and enlarge in on it in whatever photo editor they use. It's the same thing.

• Windows Media support

Again - this is Apple, why would they encourage use of their competitor's products unless they had to?

flogen

Can I add - watching the walk-through on the site, some of the features are just really, really well thought out.

At the same time, it does feature RDS moments that Jobs himself would be proud of, such as their trumpeting of changeable ringtones and such.

dal

I can't believe it they have focussed so much on the youtube support and yet you can't even take video with the iphone.
Would have been so cool to be able to take a video and then seamlessly upload it to youtube.

Owen

I presume we all saw the link on engadget.com that says Vodafone will probably be the carrier for the iPhone in Europe?

Chardee MacDennis

yeh and that they will be ready to go by 4th quarter with 3G! bloody hell if that is true thats some great work by Apple.

flogen

Call_me_al wrote:

yeh and that they will be ready to go by 4th quarter with 3G! bloody hell if that is true thats some great work by Apple.

Is that sarcasm?

I mean, it would mean having around to 5/6 months to add a new chip to an otherwise finalised device...

Chardee MacDennis

well the fact that they would have 5million ready to go would be impressive considering i would have though they would have to thave waited to finalise a contract with a phone network.

also its a bold move stiffing the american market for the 4/5months that would be in it.

eamon234

alanmurphy83 wrote:

Nobody is going to pay the money if they are only going to use it as a phone. T.

Wanna bet - look at how sales go over the next few weeks

Spud83

eamon234 wrote:

Wanna bet - look at how sales go over the next few weeks

Be hard to bet as I'm sure the thing is gonna sell like crazy, but we wont know why people are buying it. I even want one already.

My point was that people are mainly gonna buy it so they no longer have to carry arouns there phone and ipod nano. Plus they get everything else like video and web access.

culabula

Check the news this morning -in a seemingly brilliant marketing coup (after two weeks of marketing coups) it would appear that AT&T have upped the speed of their EDGE network considerably, allowing youtube to be used properly among other things, furnishing acceptable browsing speeds and also showing readiness for the several million iPhones that will be accessing the network overnight.

art

That stuff about not having game support was wrong too, one game has launched for the device already::

http://www.product-reviews.net/2007/06/29/apple-iphone-to-get-logic-game-aha/

It says in the article the iPhone is expected to be able to run almost all cell phone games - don't really know what they mean by that. But what is does show is that the iPhone has been changing considerably the closer it got to launch so potentially it could change a lot more before it gets here.

Chardee MacDennis

if they sell the 10 million iphones by year end as they predict, where will that put them in terms of market share and is their manyif any other devices with those kind of user numbers?

Spud83

10 million iPhones by the end of the year I think was there target which is 1% of the market share.

Chardee MacDennis

is there any other two models of phones which will hold as much market share?

Spud83

From here

It's dominated globally by Finland-based Nokia, which has a nearly 36 percent market share, with Motorola second at about 17 percent. In the U.S., Motorola is still market-share king, despite the weakness in its cell phone business over the past nine months.

The main problem apple has is that the iPhone is locked to one network and AT&T have an exclusive 5 year contract with them. That means not only do people have to want the iPhone the also have to want to use AT&T which is one of the worst networks in America apparently.

Also apple said 10 million by the end of the year, which means it will probably only be American sales, as it wont reach Europe till late this year if not next year.

Apple always think long term the ipod did not become that big until the third/forth generation + the release of nano/minis and shuffles. The want to get to people interested in the iPhone so that when people look in the future at changing there phone they will think "Hmm wonder whats up with that iPhone now"

flogen

Call_me_al wrote:

well the fact that they would have 5million ready to go would be impressive considering i would have though they would have to thave waited to finalise a contract with a phone network.

also its a bold move stiffing the american market for the 4/5months that would be in it.

I dunno - Apple allegedly began production of the iPhone in December 2006 or January 2007, so that's around 5/6 months of production too (with rumours of 7 million units available at launch and a steady weekly stream after that).

If that's the case the European launch won't be any great feat... I'm not sure what you mean by "stiffing" the competition either...

And the 10 million unit figure isn't for 31st December 2007, it's for the first full year of iPhone availability - some are even saying it's year end 2008. Either way, bar some mad catastrophe, I don't see that figure being a problem for them.

Spud83

flogen wrote:

And the 10 million unit figure isn't for 31st December 2007, it's for the first full year of iPhone availability - some are even saying it's year end 2008.

Sorry this is correct my previous mention of 2007 was incorrect i didn't read the article i linked too fully. 10 million by the end of 2008, or even in its first year (June 2008) wont be a problem if they launch the European version with 3G.

mollser

alanmurphy83 wrote:

Be hard to bet as I'm sure the thing is gonna sell like crazy, but we wont know why people are buying it. I even want one already.

My point was that people are mainly gonna buy it so they no longer have to carry arouns there phone and ipod nano. Plus they get everything else like video and web access.

Seriously, if the main reasons people are buying it is for those reasons, then they need to take a little look around at whats on offer elsewhere, very few phones on the market now that don't offer all of those features.

My SEW810i is equipped with a 4gb card I bought for €36 on ebay, phone cost €169, and it appears to do just about everything that the iphone does, while also having a Radio and ability to record video.

Don't see any additional features on the iPhone which are in anyway essential. Seriously, real time traffic from google earth?? oooooh :rolleyes:

Anyway, isn't the iPhone not just a rip off of the LG Prada phone which has been available for 9 months or so?? Don't see where Apple have been revolutionary with the touch screen

Chardee MacDennis

flogen wrote:

If that's the case the European launch won't be any great feat... I'm not sure what you mean by "stiffing" the competition either...

never said anything about the competition - i said stiffing the american market - imagine you uy an iphone today for 600 dollars and then 5 months down the line its available with 3g, you;d be pretty pissed.

flogen wrote:

pple allegedly began production of the iPhone in December 2006 or January 2007, so that's around 5/6 months of production too (with rumours of 7 million units available at launch and a steady weekly stream after that).

they already have the supply for the american market now they will start producing another 5m 2nd gen units for europe for launch in q4, well quanta will!

fbradyirl

culabula wrote:

Check the news this morning -in a seemingly brilliant marketing coup (after two weeks of marketing coups) it would appear that AT&T have upped the speed of their EDGE network considerably, allowing youtube to be used properly among other things, furnishing acceptable browsing speeds and also showing readiness for the several million iPhones that will be accessing the network overnight.

Good move. EDGE is capable of handling data rates of 384 Kbps with a theoretical maximum speed of 473.6 Kbps. On average, EDGE can handle three times the data throughput of GPRS using existing 800, 900, 1800 and 1900 MHz radio spectrum bands.

Chardee MacDennis

fbradyirl wrote:

Good move. EDGE is capable of handling data rates of 384 Kbps with a theoretical maximum speed of 473.6 Kbps. On average, EDGE can handle three times the data throughput of GPRS using existing 800, 900, 1800 and 1900 MHz radio spectrum bands.

apparently speeds are up to 200kbps at the moment which would really be a great boost considering the reviewers were experiencing dial up speeds.

but once 3-7m people start loggin on thhe network could drop back to those rates depending on contention rates which i presume wont be great.

fbradyirl

Call_me_al wrote:

apparently speeds are up to 200kbps at the moment which would really be a great boost considering the reviewers were experiencing dial up speeds.

but once 3-7m people start loggin on thhe network could drop back to those rates depending on contention rates which i presume wont be great.

More on this:
http://www.smartphonetoday.com/articles/2007/6/2007-6-7-AT-T-Boosting.html

Not sure if the AT&T Ericsson "EDGE Evolution" upgrade is supported by the iPhone though.

It looks pretty, but there are much better phones that cost much less.

Spud83

fbradyirl wrote:

Not sure if the AT&T Ericsson "EDGE Evolution" upgrade is supported by the iPhone though.

It would be very strange for AT&T to upgrade there EDGE network the day before the iPhone is released and not have the iPhone support it. Although it could be a reaction to the reviews as most reviewers have pointed at the network as being the weakest selling point, and AT&T want to make sure they aren't the ones to be blamed if the selling doesn't go well.(Unlikely)

Spud83

mollser wrote:

My SEW810i is equipped with a 4gb card I bought for €36 on ebay, phone cost €169, and it appears to do just about everything that the iphone does, while also having a Radio and ability to record video.

Apple have never siad the iPhone is going to do things other phones cant. What they have said is that are going to make it alot more easier to use and improve on all the features using there UI. I have no experience of the SEW810i but I doubt its browser stands up to the version of safari on the iPhone, can it play videos downloaded from your computer? Does it have the visual voicemail? Is it backed up with a never ending list of accessories? Is it ever evolving due to firmware upgrades every month? I doubt it does many of these things. How does it support your email and attachments?

art

mollser wrote:

Seriously, if the main reasons people are buying it is for those reasons, then they need to take a little look around at whats on offer elsewhere, very few phones on the market now that don't offer all of those features.

There's no phone on the market that can play tracks downloaded from the iTunes store, for a start. There's no phone on the market running a complete OSX - where that will lead is hard to determine yet til we know how Apple will approach opening the iPhone to external development. There's no phone with the iPhone GUI. There's very few phones with the feature set and battery life Apple are claiming for the iPhone: eight hours talk time is substantial for that class of phone, 24 hours audio playback is not to be sniffed at either.