Goal scoring wingers

Tusky

Was just thinking about the various wingers in the league. How many goals is a winger expected to score during a season ? What is a good return ?

The figures below are off the top of my head so correct me if Im wrong & help me add in new players.

Figures are in all comps.

Ronaldo - 29 (4 pens)
Benayoun- 10
Bentley - 9
Babel - 8
Downing - 5
Hunt - 5
Petrov - 4
Young - 4
Sean Wright Philips - 4
Kranjcar - 3
Nani - 3
Malouda - 2
Giggs - 2
Park - 1
Pennant - 0
Kewell - 0

It probably would have been better to assess assists as well as goals as this is as much a a part of a wingers game as anything else. For exmaple, Ashley Young has a whopping 14 assists from 28 starts.

The most notable player is Ronaldo. The season isnt over and it looks like he will score a fair bit more than 30 goals. No winger has the right to score that many! Amazing.

From my team, I think Benayoun has been a great buy. Hes no Ronaldo but hes a good option coming off the bench. He only cost around 4m yet has scored 10 goals. A good return. Babel has had a rocky start to his Liverpool career. He has been inconsistent in his performances but 8 is a decent return from him as well.

I'm surprised Malouda hasnt scored more. I thought he would do very well in the EPL.

~Rebel~

David Bentley has 9 goals and a fair few assists (7 assists in the league i think), contributes to a lot more then that as well.

Downings got 5goals I think.

Petrov has 4goals and 8 assists.

Hunt has 5 goals 4 assists.

Kranjcar has 3 goals 4 assists

To be fair to Malouda, he's not played anywhere near as much as he probably should have. Coming out over the Mourinho thing after he left has possibly stopped his Chelsea career before it ever really started..

<edit> more added

Tusky

~Rebel~ wrote: »

David Bentley has 9 goals and a fair few assists (7 assists in the league i think), contributes to a lot more then that as well.

To be fair to Malouda, he's not played anywhere near as much as he probably should have. Coming out over the Mourinho thing after he left has possibly stopped his Chelsea career before it ever really started..

He played a fair bit at the start of the season didnt he ? Added Bentley.

Unearthly

Ronaldo doesn't have that many assists I believe, infact I think Nani nearly has 3 times as much as him for assists.

Tusky

Unearthly wrote: »

Ronaldo doesn't have that many assists I believe, infact I think Nani nearly has 3 times as much as him for assists.

Why pass when you can put it in the net yourself ?

Necronomicon

Yeah not many assist from Ronaldo, but we'll forgive him with that goals return

England actually have a bit of an embarrassment of riches on the right now; Bentley, SWP, Lennon, I'm sure Young could switch to the right as well.

Unearthly

Tusky wrote: »

Why pass when you can put it in the net yourself ?

Indeed

I was still shocked seeing he doesn't have that many assists though

homerjay2005

nani has 12 assists, 3 goals. nani is one of the best crossers of the ball in england and will only get better. 2 of his 3 goals have been up there for goal of the season.

i think benayouns stats are misleading, 6 of those goals came in 2 games, against shall we say, not the best of opposition. 3 against besiktas 8-0 and 3 in the havant and waterlooville game. hardly inspiring! i think he has been poor and is not a liverpool player.

~Rebel~

added a few more into my post, mostly league totals though some are overall, depending on what i found.

Malouda did start a lot at the start and I thought looked really good, since Mourinho left he hasn't played as much. Only started 13 prem games this season. Doesn't seem as interested when he does play either. Was pretty stupid to get in Grants bad books straight away really. Made life very hard for himself.

Raekwon

Necromomicon wrote: »

I'm sure Young could switch to the right as well.

Ashley Young is naturally a right-winger but Martin O'Neill plays him on the left (to great effect I might add).

Tusky

homerjay2005 wrote: »

nani has 12 assists, 3 goals. nani is one of the best crossers of the ball in england and will only get better. 2 of his 3 goals have been up there for goal of the season.

i think benayouns stats are misleading, 6 of those goals came in 2 games, against shall we say, not the best of opposition. 3 against besiktas 8-0 and 3 in the havant and waterlooville game. hardly inspiring! i think he has been poor and is not a liverpool player.

Do goals against crap opposition not count or something ? Even if you take away the two hatricks hes still got 4 goals which is more than alot of the wingers on that list. I think hes a handy little player to have on the bench.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Nahh he is such an ardent hater of Liverpool Tusk that he will not bother to make any kind of decent argument, just say goals against weaker opposition make him a lesser player.

Of course if anybody were to work out the number of goals ronaldo has scored against the so called lesser teams and it left them off his tally, then I am sure he would change the definition to suit him again. :rolleyes:

Like maybe, sporting lisbon, birmingham, wigan, a sh1t newcastle team both times...

Necronomicon

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

Like maybe, sporting lisbon, birmingham, wigan, a sh1t newcastle team both times...

I was going to say you can't compare Newcastle to Havant & Waterlooville, but it doesn't sound too crazy now

Guy:Incognito

If we're deducting points for goals being against crap teams then surely Ronaldo should be struck off because he plays as part of a front three most of the time and not really on the wing at all?

PHB

I think in terms of stats, ignoring league cup isn't the worst idea to be honest. I think league stats and CL stats show a real picture in terms of quality

Xavi6

PHB wrote: »

I think in terms of stats, ignoring league cup isn't the worst idea to be honest. I think league stats and CL stats show a real picture in terms of quality

What if the player doesn't play Champions League like Young, Bentley or Petrov? Should be league only then if you're gettin rid of the league cup.

Savman

Naturally most will lump in for one of their own, so I have to point out that Ashley Young's assists this season is quite phenomenal.

rossie1977

Stekelly wrote: »

If we're deducting points for goals being against crap teams then surely Ronaldo should be struck off because he plays as part of a front three most of the time and not really on the wing at all?

i would say the same thing, is c.ronaldo really playing as a winger currently, if so surely thierry henry also played as a winger at arsenal. there is no way ronaldo would play in the position he plays at man utd currently if they had an out and out striker like andy cole or Ruud van Nistelrooy. in fact alongside van nistelrooy ronaldos stats in the league read

2003/04 PL: 29 Scored 4
2004/05 PL: 33 Scored 5
2005/06 PL: 33 Scored 9

stick-dan

rossie1977 wrote: »

i would say the same thing, is c.ronaldo really playing as a winger currently, if so surely thierry henry also played as a winger at arsenal. there is no way ronaldo would play in the position he plays at man utd currently if they had an out and out striker like andy cole or Ruud van Nistelrooy. in fact alongside van nistelrooy ronaldos stats in the league read

2003/04 PL: 29 Scored 4
2004/05 PL: 33 Scored 5
2005/06 PL: 33 Scored 9

haha, sure ronaldo winger,,more like whinger....

to be fair he has played as a striker for most of the season lol

can someone make up the goals he has actually scored against the top ten this year and also highlight the peno's...

that would be interesting reading.

Savman

stick-dan wrote: »

haha, sure ronaldo winger,,more like whinger....

to be fair he has played as a striker for most of the season lol

can someone make up the goals he has actually scored against the top ten this year and also highlight the peno's...

that would be interesting reading.

Warning: any attempt to try paint the PL's leading goalscorer in a bad light will result in you looking very silly indeed, so tread very softly

PHB

Ronaldo doesn't play as part of a front 3, he plays as part of a front 4. United have played a 4-3-3 once this season really, maybe twice.

If you take the Pitch as 15 positions

--RB---CB---CB----LB
-RWB--DMC--DMC-LWB
--RM---MC---MC--LM
--RW--AMC--AMC--LW
--RWF--CF--CF---LWF-

United play a

--RB--CB--CB--LB-
----DMC--DMC----

---

-RW---AMC---LW-

---

CF

---

Henry played like Rooney does imo. Plays the withdrawn CF role, up front a lot behind the lines, but also likes to drop deep and drop to the left, although not as much as Henry does.

Ronaldo plays in that right wing. He however has utterly redefined the position (although I'd argue it's a lot like how Best used to play right wing)

He's not part of a front 3, he's part of a front 4. He does have defensive duties in theory, which he does when Neville is in the team, and gets given out to when he doesn't do it when it matters, like the Arsenal game this year. In the other big games he's played this year, he's had to do a lot more tracking back.

That said, three or four times this season, especially towards the ends of games, although once or twice starting, Ronaldo played as the CF in that formation, alongside Rooney who played the AMC role.

PHB

Also

1st place to 5th place

Arsenal - 1
Everton - 2 [1 pen]

6th place to 10th place

Villa - 1
Blackburn - 2
West ham - 1
Portsmouth - 2

11th place to 15th place

Spurs - 2 [1 pen]
Sunderland - 1
Newcastle - 5

16th place to 20th

Fulham - 2
Reading - 1
Brum - 1
Wigan - 2
Derby - 1 [1 pen]

CL Teams:

Kiev - 3 [1 pen]
Lisbon - 2

1st place to 5th place - 3 [1 pen]
6th place to 10th place - 6
11th place to 15th place - 8 [1 pen]
16th place to 20th place - 7 [1 pen]
CL - 5 [1 pen]

PHB

So whan we conclude?
Ronaldo doesn't score more penalties than anybody else really, and doesn't score them against bad teams more than good teams.
There isn't a huge difference between the amount of goals he scores from the 6th to the 20th place, nor the CL.
There is a difference between the top 1st and 5th and the rest, but not imo a huge difference that would exist with any other player.

rossie1977

ronaldo has also scored just 3 goals in something like 30 games against Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal. hasn't scored against Liverpool or Chelsea yet in nearly 20 games

~Rebel~

I think these arguments are kinda pointless, seems a guy cant be fantastic unless he does absolutely everything possible? If it was a case that he had never scored against any top team then fair enough, but he has, so now he gets punished for not scoring against all of them. In any big games, the big players are double or triple marked, leaving space for other players. In most cases these players dont just disappear, they take up a lot of the oppositions resources.

herbieflowers

it's typical that most threads on this forum turn into endless arguments on the merits of Ronaldo's footballing abilities, yawn.

Savman

It really is quite simple. As already stated:

~Rebel~ wrote: »

In any big games, the big players are double or triple marked, leaving space for other players. In most cases these players dont just disappear, they take up a lot of the oppositions resources.

Saves me the bother of typing it

Xavi6

That Ronaldo didn't score against City this season either, just so ya know.

rossie1977

this thread started off by saying most of yossi benayouns goals don't count because he scored them against fenerbahce and the like, you guys can't have it both ways

The big clubs don't triple mark ronaldo that would just be playing into man utds hands, who would mark giggs, rooney, saha and tevez then :rolleyes: arbelo was assigned to him last game at anfield but he didn't man mark him and still ronaldo didn't get a kick. If he doesn't get the ball he can't score so the big teams limit the amount of ball he gets, simple really.

the same argument can be made about torres and i have seen it made in numerous different forums, the guy has barely scored away from home yet and until he does regularly or starts popping them in against the top 3 (either or for me) the jury will still be out. In spain he got slated for not scoring against Real in matches

Average-Ro

Scored a few against Barcelona though didn't he?

herbieflowers

triple mark would be an exagerration, but it makes sense. You over-mark the player who can do the most damage, thus limiting his POWERS OF DESTRUCTION! Or something...but I'd disagree with you anyway, when you play against top sides you're not going to get as much space anyway, and that cpunts for all the players, not just a Ronaldo or a Torres, chances thus are few and far between, and oftentimes such 'big' games are decided from a bit of luck, a set-piece, or a moment of individual brilliance.

rossie1977

Average-Ro wrote: »

Scored a few against Barcelona though didn't he?

true that he did

rossie1977

thierry henry had no problems scoring against the big 3, man marked or not, a fine player that lad was and i am no gunners fan

Melion

Are people still saying Ronaldo isnt top class?

rossie1977

well he ain't the best player in the world or of all-time (whatever the british media are saying this week)

Rooney is a better player imo

Average-Ro

Against the top teams, Ronaldo shouldn't be triple marked.

TOP teams should have players of good enough quality to mark Ronaldo on their own.

Though in saying that, Nakamura and McGeady were double marked last year by Milan in the Champions league. That argument is out the window...

Average-Ro

Rooney could well be a better player, but Ronaldo is riding high on confidence. After his injury, it took Rooney awhile to get back into the swing of things. He's hitting form now though, over the last few matches.

Melion

rossie1977 wrote: »

well he ain't the best player in the world or of all-time (whatever the british media are saying this week)

Rooney is a better player imo

Messi is the only player in the world who can rival him for the spot as the best in the world

Mr Alan

rossie1977 wrote: »

well he ain't the best player in the world

yes he is.

rossie1977 wrote: »

Rooney is a better player imo

ha ha ha ha ha ha, not even nearly. works harder, but not near better this year i'm afraid.

herbieflowers

how can anyone complare two completely different players?

Average-Ro

Imagine one team having Messi and Ronaldo on the wings...drool...

herbieflowers

PES2008 - the place of where fantasy becomes a virtual reality

DSB

herbieflowers wrote: »

how can anyone complare two completely different players?

Really easily.

herbieflowers

ha good one. cough

rossie1977

Melion wrote: »

Messi is the only player in the world who can rival him for the spot as the best in the world

well he had a chance to prove that last year versus AC Milan, remind me what happened. The British media hailed it as kaka versus Ronaldo, i think kaka may have won that one

i would have kaka, henry, messi, rooney on my team ahead of c.ronaldo, i know most here disagree but then i suspect if i went back in time about 9 years we would be having the same argument about a certain mr beckham being the best in the world :eek:

rossie1977

Average-Ro wrote: »

Imagine one team having Messi and Ronaldo on the wings...drool...

imagine how much silverware a team with zidane, ronaldo (the ugly brazilian dude), figo, carlos, raul, beckham all in their primes would win..... oh wait

whatawaster

Messi is the best winger/attacking midfielder in the world, and is going to get so much better. He could be one of the greatest of all time. He is in a different league to Rooney and Ronaldo, who are both fantastic players. I'd also rate him ahead of Kaka.

rossie1977

herbieflowers wrote: »

how can anyone complare two completely different players?

if you can't compare two different players, how are you ever to determine who is the best in the world???

Average-Ro

rossie1977 wrote: »

imagine how much silverware a team with zidane, ronaldo (the ugly brazilian dude), figo, carlos, raul, beckham all in their primes would win..... oh wait

Fine fine, point taken. Though we'll see in about two years how United's current youngsters (Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez, Anderson, Nani etc.) are playing together. I can't really see much personality clashes there in fairness. Ronaldo, Anderson and Nani are all portugese speakers and apparently get on really well with each other. Rooney and Tevez both have that 'die for the team' attitude.

rossie1977

whatawaster wrote: »

Messi is the best winger/attacking midfielder in the world, and is going to get so much better. He could be one of the greatest of all time. He is in a different league to Rooney and Ronaldo, who are both fantastic players. I'd also rate him ahead of Kaka.

messi plays deeper than ronaldo too. I attended the betis match in the Camp Nou in November and messi started each half playing just in front of the right back

whatawaster

rossie1977 wrote: »

imagine how much silverware a team with zidane, ronaldo (the ugly brazilian dude), figo, carlos, raul, beckham all in their primes would win..... oh wait

carlos is the most over rated player who ever played the game.