The Freemasons

eithneoneill

A money making group.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Any chance you could expand on this?

I will just take 2 simple examples, without revealing anything which is not in the public domain.

1- Entered Apprentice should remain silent for the first year, to learn better.
But in the GLI, it is notorious that degrees are passed very quickly, in order to cash in, without real care for candidates proficiency. They are heavily prompted and not expected to actually know or understand the answers.
As a result, they can get to the 3rd degree within the same year they were initiated, but be quite ignorant of the significance of the various symbols and tools of the craft.

2- When you hear some Masons from the GLI talk about some of their symbols and their meaning, you quickly understand that either they do not have a clue or they do not care, or they are repeating a heavily deformed version of what they actually mean.

If you are a Master Mason, try it yourself: ask any older member the proficiency questions asked of an Entered Apprentice before they are raised to the 2nd degree.
Most will not recall having heard the questions, and most will not be able to answer the questions, and even less explain them.
Among them, some Past Masters.

(I get that story from a GLI Past Master who is transitioning to one of the other 2 orders. We had a very interesting debate on symbols over coffee this afternoon, and he told me he did not recall such interesting and in-depth debates in the 25 years he has been an officer in various GLI lodges.
He decided to move on after of the "inspectors" chaired one of the lodge meetings, and humiliated the R.'.W.'.M.'., whilst making inaccurate statements on some symbolic aspects of an initiation [he did not tell me more about the details!])

He also told me how most GLI Freemasons think that clocking in the degrees makes them better masons, or even higher masons.
Most GLI Master Masons seem to ignore that the highest degree is the third degree!

Brown Bomber

A group to make contacts.

I think I've found a woman performing in a masonic lodge. It's a bit creepy...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wD12enuDtho

Absolam

A money making group.

Torakx wrote: »

I dont know if it was the Knights Templar faction of Freemasons or another when I was researching the councils relating to the northern Irish comments of mine, but I did come across the sigil of two knights sharing a horse, which supposedly represented the fact that they came from humble backgrounds and had to share etc.

The seal of the Knights Templar depicts two Knights on a horse, and there are varying explanations for it, depending on who you read. The seal is used by the appendant order of Knights Templar in Freemasonry, but not by Councils of Knight Masons, who are a different appendant order.

Torakx wrote: »

So it makes me wonder did Rofl Harris have several meanings for this song in mind? Was he possibly a Freemason? And what might his other songs represent? As in, are their any other possible Masonic meanings in those too.
One song = possible coincedence, but a few songs makes me really wonder.
I have only had time to search on the one so far though.
Any other info appreciated, for my curiosity.

He might have done, although the care of comrades as brothers is a common martial tradition, arguably far more common than the Masonic tradition. I believe his grandfather was a Freemason, but the only people who have claimed Rolf Harris as a Freemason are the Getz/David Icke CTers of this world. He could be, I don't know for certain he isn't, but if he is I'm pretty sure he won't be if the latest allegations prove true.

eithneoneill

A money making group.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

I think I've found a woman performing in a masonic lodge. It's a bit creepy...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wD12enuDtho

Are you the kind of person who thinks that the porn website pretending to show women in the shower from a "hidden" camera are real?
Do you think the Da Vinci code is an historical thesis?

Women Freemasons are doing as serious a work in Lodge as men Freemasons.
What you found is just trash soft porn.
And female Freemasons are likely to be just as out of shape, wrinkly and flabby as their male brethren.

Yitzhak Rabin

A money making group.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

I think I've found a woman performing in a masonic lodge. It's a bit creepy...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wD12enuDtho

I think that could be fake BB.

The 3 men behind her certainly don't look interested in what's going on. I know if I was sitting that close, my eyes would be fairly well glued on her

It looks like a green screen behind her and the 3 masons sitting at the top superimposed over it. Certainly nothing that exciting has ever happened at any lodge I've been to!

Torakx

eithneoneill wrote: »

Are you the kind of person who thinks that the porn website pretending to show women in the shower from a "hidden" camera are real?
Do you think the Da Vinci code is an historical thesis?

Women Freemasons are doing as serious a work in Lodge as men Freemasons.
What you found is just trash soft porn.
And female Freemasons are likely to be just as out of shape, wrinkly and flabby as their male brethren.

From knowing BrownBombers postings for years, I am guessing he is highlighting your points previously made.
Consider it a representation of the Grand lodges stance on women masons.Although Id say myself it seems a little exagerated lol

Absolam

A money making group.

eithneoneill wrote: »

1- Entered Apprentice should remain silent for the first year, to learn better.
But in the GLI, it is notorious that degrees are passed very quickly, in order to cash in, without real care for candidates proficiency. They are heavily prompted and not expected to actually know or understand the answers.
As a result, they can get to the 3rd degree within the same year they were initiated, but be quite ignorant of the significance of the various symbols and tools of the craft.

That's not actually true, but of course you couldn't be expected to know whether it is or isn't, since you're relying on someone elses' opinion...

eithneoneill wrote: »

2- When you hear some Masons from the GLI talk about some of their symbols and their meaning, you quickly understand that either they do not have a clue or they do not care, or they are repeating a heavily deformed version of what they actually mean.

Have you heard this? Or are you again repeating someone elses' opinion? Considering that you aren't a Freemason, and haven't been instructed as one in the meaning of the symbols, it's hard to understand why you think you can comment on someone elses' understanding?

eithneoneill wrote: »

If you are a Master Mason, try it yourself: ask any older member the proficiency questions asked of an Entered Apprentice before they are raised to the 2nd degree. Most will not recall having heard the questions, and most will not be able to answer the questions, and even less explain them.
Among them, some Past Masters.

If you're a Master Mason you'll know Entered Apprentices aren't asked proficiency questions before taking their Second Degree, nor are they raised to the Second Degree. Which only demonstrates the inaccuracy of the information you're using to deride something you don't know about.

eithneoneill wrote: »

(I get that story from a GLI Past Master who is transitioning to one of the other 2 orders. We had a very interesting debate on symbols over coffee this afternoon, and he told me he did not recall such interesting and in-depth debates in the 25 years he has been an officer in various GLI lodges.
He decided to move on after of the "inspectors" chaired one of the lodge meetings, and humiliated the R.'.W.'.M.'., whilst making inaccurate statements on some symbolic aspects of an initiation [he did not tell me more about the details!])

I honestly don't think you did. A Past Master wouldn't make the basic errors in information or terminology you have, nor would he relate a story about 'inspectors' who don't exist, or an R.W.M of a Lodge, which isn't an office in Irish Freemasonry. Sounds like you were conned. Or just made it up yourself.

eithneoneill wrote: »

He also told me how most GLI Freemasons think that clocking in the degrees makes them better masons, or even higher masons.
Most GLI Master Masons seem to ignore that the highest degree is the third degree!

Hmm. Did he use the GL Freemasons term you were using earlier, or the GLI Freemasons term you're now using since I pointed our your mistake?

Brown Bomber

A group to make contacts.

Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »

I think that could be fake BB.

The 3 men behind her certainly don't look interested in what's going on. I know if I was sitting that close, my eyes would be fairly well glued on her

It looks like a green screen behind her and the 3 masons sitting at the top superimposed over it. Certainly nothing that exciting has ever happened at any lodge I've been to!

Damn! I wanted that to be real so bad. I think the giveaway is the blokes in the audience in normal clothes. If watching the Sons of the desert has taught me anything it is that they'd all be decked out in the full gear all nice and smart. That's one thing about masons they are always well turned out, there a throwback to a better era, or at least one that I romantacise when men were expected to be gentlemen.

I'm starting to warm to masons it's just a shame about the luciferianism

Torakx

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Damn! I wanted that to be real so bad. I think the giveaway is the blokes in the audience in normal clothes. If watching the Sons of the desert has taught me anything it is that they'd all be decked out in the full gear all nice and smart. That's one thing about masons they are always well turned out, there a throwback to a better era, or at least one that I romantacise when men were expected to be gentlemen.

I'm starting to warm to masons it's just a shame about the luciferianism

Actually the Lucifarianism is one of the few things I do consider noteworthy lol
Well some of the principles that is.
Satanism not at all though.

eithneoneill

A money making group.

Absolam wrote: »

Hmm. Did he use the GL Freemasons term you were using earlier, or the GLI Freemasons term you're now using since I pointed our your mistake?

He did not use abbreviations,.
You used the term so I wanted to be amicable to you, rather then just using "Freemasonry", as GLI is only a third of Irish Freemasonry. That third that rejects 1/2 the population on principle.

Absolam

A money making group.

Well, unless irregular Freemasonry has grown exponentially in the last few days, I think it's more like 98% of all those who call themselves Freemasons in Ireland are members of regular Freemsaonry, even though we only draw our membership from 50.05% of the population. Tell you what, if irregular Masonry ever hits 10% in my lifetime, I'll buy you a pint in the Grand Lodge bar to celebrate

eithneoneill

A money making group.

Absolam wrote: »

Well, unless irregular Freemasonry has grown exponentially in the last few days, I think it's more like 98% of all those who call themselves Freemasons in Ireland are members of regular Freemsaonry, even though we only draw our membership from 50.05% of the population. Tell you what, if irregular Masonry ever hits 10% in my lifetime, I'll buy you a pint in the Grand Lodge bar to celebrate

Deal.
Just to be clear, that's 10% of all 3 Orders, between the two "irregular" orders.
(Now, I just hope you are not 98 year old and just after falling down the stairs!)

robroy1234

Will you buy me a pint as well Absolam? May have to get myself over the Dublin more often...

Absolam

A money making group.

We could ask the Internet lodge to host a Boards evening and everyone from CT could join us to check for lizard people

studiorat

Absolam wrote: »

Tell you what, if irregular Masonry ever hits 10% in my lifetime, I'll buy you a pint in the Grand Lodge bar to celebrate

A pint of what? Virgins Blood?

robroy1234

That would be nice Studio - Virgin Blood.....Are there any Virgins in Dublin?

Absolam

A money making group.

Bit of a filler puff piece in the Irish Times today... presumably the CTers will find some fodder in there

Deconstructing a few secrets of the Freemasons

robroy1234

Similar article from Sligo recently. Very good articles and pretty much dispel the rubbish that is touted about by CTers...

robroy1234

Gone quiet here......has everyone left the country and moved to Australia?

getz

The puppet masters.

robroy1234 wrote: »

Gone quiet here......has everyone left the country and moved to Australia?

its gone quiet in the UK as well,its seems all the masons have been arrested for sex offences,its the bonking of chickens and the showing of bare legs at lodge meetings has twisted their minds.

djethro

A money making group.

Around our parts the freemasons aint what they used to be. their demographic has shifted greatly. All in all their demographic is sliding Northwards kinds like the church. in a few more year their wont be many around.

I know a few lads who got the nod dont even know if they signed up or not but

Brown Bomber

A group to make contacts.

robroy1234 wrote: »

Gone quiet here......has everyone left the country and moved to Australia?

If you'd oblige me I'd love to know your or anyone else's take on the Triads. They are a good example in my opinion of the dangers of secret societies.

Absolam

A money making group.

robroy1234 wrote: »

Gone quiet here......has everyone left the country and moved to Australia?

Well, some of us have, albeit temporarily :-)

Brown Bomber wrote: »

If you'd oblige me I'd love to know your or anyone else's take on the Triads. They are a good example in my opinion of the dangers of secret societies.

Well, my take is they're a good example of a dangerous secret society.

Sacksian

Absolam wrote: »

...Well, my take is they're a good example of a dangerous secret society.

What about the Yakuza? Or Westies?

The Freemasons probably aren't relevant to discussion of transational organised crime syndicates.

robroy1234

The only dangerous secret society I know of is the group of women that my wife is a part of, when they go out for a night out.....

getz

The puppet masters.

Sacksian wrote: »

What about the Yakuza? Or Westies?

The Freemasons probably aren't relevant to discussion of transational organised crime syndicates.

dont tell that to the italians, all mafia godfathers were freemasons,who even the goverment down

robroy1234

Getz - you do talk a load of rubbish., I think your own perverted sex obsession is exagerating your paranoia. Somehow in your twisted mind to attempt to link the UK and Italy to Ireland....I think you should just stick to the Daivd Icke forums with the space lizards ruling the world.

Mod: User was banned for this post

Paddy De Plasterer

Absolam wrote: »

Well, some of us have, albeit temporarily :-)


Well, my take is they're a good example of a dangerous secret society.

Bit like the Roman Catholic Church, some of whose priests abuse kids and then make them swear an oath of secrecy to keep quiet or they will go to hell ?

Absolam

A money making group.

Sacksian wrote: »

What about the Yakuza? Or Westies?

The Freemasons probably aren't relevant to discussion of transational organised crime syndicates.

I'd say the Yakuza are also a good example of a dangerous secret society, and the Westies are a more overt organised crime syndicate. But you're right, Freemasons are not relevant to a discussion of transnational organised crime syndicates.

getz wrote: »

dont tell that to the italians, all mafia godfathers were freemasons,who even the goverment down

That's simply not true, never mind grammatically correct. That said, at least it's a little less vitriolic than the biased and unfounded nonsense you've previously posted about Freemasons.

Paddy De Plasterer wrote: »

Bit like the Roman Catholic Church, some of whose priests abuse kids and then make them swear an oath of secrecy to keep quiet or they will go to hell ?

I don't think so, the Roman Catholic Church is a religious organisation, not a secret society, though I suppose it might also be called a society with secrets. But comparing a major world religion to a (relatively) small criminal gang like the Triads seems to be reaching a bit....

Jumpboard

Now I'm not going to make assertions of plots and world orders but I have found something that truly puzzles me. 

Irish Freemasons?! I work for a British institution and have encountered a large amount of English Freemasons. They are partially connected to Royalty and the English upper class. 

Of the ones I have met, to put it nicely, they are totally bigoted colonial minded individuals. Extremely anti-Irish, anti-Catholic, and hardline Ulster supporters. They have a history of being linked with corruption i.e Kenneth Noye, Jimmy Saville etc etc 

I would not join on account of seeing it as betrayal  of my Irish Heritage to a bunch of nasty rich bast**** 

I discovered on the Internet today to my shock that there is such a thing as 'Irish' Freemasons. Now I am not about to pass down judgement on this group but please could someone tell me how that works? 

Do you have to spit in a mirror to join? 

Brown Bomber

A group to make contacts.

nah, you just need to buy a suit of entrails.

Absolam

A money making group.

Jumpboard wrote: »

Irish Freemasons?! I work for a British institution and have encountered a large amount of English Freemasons. They are partially connected to Royalty and the English upper class.  

Historically in the Victorian era, clubs, particularly Freemasonry, were very popular amongst the gentry in the British Empire. Since quite a few sons often follow their fathers footsteps it shouldn't be surprising that there are still quite a few 'upper class' individuals in English Freemasonry today. It might be more surprising to know that if you venture into the East End of London, or take a wander around Southampton, Portsmouth, or Liverpool or Manchester, a lot of the working mens clubs are actually Masonic Lodges; these days there are a hell of a lot more 'working class' Freemasons than 'upper class' or Royals.

Jumpboard wrote: »

Of the ones I have met, to put it nicely, they are totally bigoted colonial minded individuals. Extremely anti-Irish, anti-Catholic, and hardline Ulster supporters. They have a history of being linked with corruption i.e Kenneth Noye, Jimmy Saville etc etc  

To be more accurate, Freemasons have a history of being accused of being linked with corruption. Far less actual/proven links. I've met some nationalistic English Freemasons, but I've met nationalistic Irish and Australian Freemasons too. No more, proportionately, than nationalistic non-Freemasons though.

Jumpboard wrote: »

I would not join on account of seeing it as betrayal  of my Irish Heritage to a bunch of nasty rich bast****  

I know a couple of rich Irish Freemasons, but a lot more poor Irish Freemasons and luckily, practically no nasty ones at all!

Jumpboard wrote: »

I discovered on the Internet today to my shock that there is such a thing as 'Irish' Freemasons. Now I am not about to pass down judgement on this group but please could someone tell me how that works? Do you have to spit in a mirror to join? 

There are three 'original' Constitutions of regular Freemasonry; English, Irish, and Scottish, governed by the three main Grand Lodges. Most countries in the world have their own Grand Lodge, originating from one or more of the three originals, and recognised by them as a regular Masonic body. There are other Masonic-like bodies, such as the Grand Orients, which are generally similar to Freemasonry, but differ sufficiently that the mainstream of Freemasonry doesn't recognise them as being Masonic.
There is no international governing body; each Constitution is independent but in 'amicable communication' with the others.
To join you must be male, over 21, and profess a belief in a supreme being. No spitting required.

Penn

Threads merged.

Emme

Absolam wrote: »

Historically in the Victorian era, clubs, particularly Freemasonry, were very popular amongst the gentry in the British Empire. Since quite a few sons often follow their fathers footsteps it shouldn't be surprising that there are still quite a few 'upper class' individuals in English Freemasonry today. It might be more surprising to know that if you venture into the East End of London, or take a wander around Southampton, Portsmouth, or Liverpool or Manchester, a lot of the working mens clubs are actually Masonic Lodges; these days there are a hell of a lot more 'working class' Freemasons than 'upper class' or Royals.

To be more accurate, Freemasons have a history of being accused of being linked with corruption. Far less actual/proven links. I've met some nationalistic English Freemasons, but I've met nationalistic Irish and Australian Freemasons too. No more, proportionately, than nationalistic non-Freemasons though.


I know a couple of rich Irish Freemasons, but a lot more poor Irish Freemasons and luckily, practically no nasty ones at all!


There are three 'original' Constitutions of regular Freemasonry; English, Irish, and Scottish, governed by the three main Grand Lodges. Most countries in the world have their own Grand Lodge, originating from one or more of the three originals, and recognised by them as a regular Masonic body. There are other Masonic-like bodies, such as the Grand Orients, which are generally similar to Freemasonry, but differ sufficiently that the mainstream of Freemasonry doesn't recognise them as being Masonic.
There is no international governing body; each Constitution is independent but in 'amicable communication' with the others.
To join you must be male, over 21, and profess a belief in a supreme being. No spitting required.

Thanks for telling us that again, Absolam, but the conspiracy theorists will say the working class masons are a smoke screen for the posh masons who get up to all sorts of evil deeds behind closed doors, including spitting!

Absolam

A money making group.

In all fairness I do recall seeing an antique spittoon in the Museum in Molesworth St, so before anyone else says there's no smoke without fire I'll admit there may have, on occasion, been some spitting.... But it probably wasn't compulsory

djstanford

<snip>

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Paddy De Plasterer

Absolam wrote: »

In all fairness I do recall seeing an antique spittoon in the Museum in Molesworth St, so before anyone else says there's no smoke without fire I'll admit there may have, on occasion, been some spitting.... But it probably wasn't compulsory

So its not a secret society so if you are privvy to those details . Many decent Protestants, artisan workers are FMs, after all that may account for set squares, etc in their logo >

Absolam

A money making group.

Paddy De Plasterer wrote: »

So its not a secret society so if you are privvy to those details . Many decent Protestants, artisan workers are FMs, after all that may account for set squares, etc in their logo >

Well, no it's not a secret society, but I am a member, though neither a protestant nor an artisan. The tools used in Masonic emblems are generally those of olden day builders and architects.

robroy1234

Not a Secret Society but a Society with Secrets. The tools and emblems used in Masonry are visual reminders to moral behaviour and some phrasing is pretty well known outside Freemasonry, such as : when questioning someone whether they are being honest about something "On the level?" etc., Reasoning that someone is "on the level" and "being upright" and "being square" etc., the list goes on

Absolam

A money making group.

Bit of a tour of the Grand Lodge building on Molesworth St on RTEs Morning Edition http://youtu.be/CyvoS-r5Qeo

Oracle

On this week for Heritage Week, Guided Tours of Freemasons' Hall, Molesworth Street, Dublin: http://www.heritageweek.ie//index.php/whats-on/event-search/#8706

St.Crusader_G

Well, YOU must really think about it. Just take it as, freemasonry being indeed, a organization. Understated, it Please.

Richard tea

A group to make contacts.

St.Crusader_G wrote: »

Well, YOU must really think about it. Just take it as, freemasonry being indeed, a organization. Understated, it Please.

hansfrei

A group to make contacts.

St.Crusader_G wrote: »

Well, YOU must really think about it. Just take it as, freemasonry being indeed, a organization. Understated, it Please.

Speaking in tongues.

constance tench

A money making group.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qanWGmUunfM

beans

The puppets

Hoping a Mason could answer something for me...

Is there a link between the freemasonic 'Degree of Knight of Malta' and the 'Sovereign Military Hospitaller Order of Saint John of Jerusalem of Rhodes and of Malta', or just Sovereign Military Order of Malta for short? Or is this a just a coincidence?

Some sources seem to conflate the two, when in fact they may be two very separate things.

Absolam

A money making group.

SMOM is the modern day remnant of the Knights Hospitaller. The Masonic Knight of Malta degree is based on the history of the Knights Hospitaller. There are plenty of organisations that are based on, or stem from the original Religious/Military Orders (the Johns Ambulance Brigade being a notable derivative of the Knights Hospitaller), but the only thing they have in common is that they take something of their character from the original Orders.

eithneoneill

A money making group.

robroy1234 wrote: »

I think that you should contact and join the Grand Orient.

I did join the Droit Humain, but now I have resigned because the news broke:

A man who had more than 50 images of child pornography on his computer at his Dublin home has been spared a jail term.

Instead of being punished, he has been promoted, and that I am not happy with. And we were kept in the dark. Worst than the Catholic Church!

I do not blame the Order, but the miscreants that lied to us and to the Order.

Torakx

Well lets just say, when you have a group of individuals who work around keeping secrets, some of them eventually will abuse that system. It's inevitable.

eithneoneill

A money making group.

Torakx wrote: »

Well lets just say, when you have a group of individuals who work around keeping secrets, some of them eventually will abuse that system. It's inevitable.

That is not the kind of secrets they are suppose to keep.
They are suppose to respect the law 100%.