Disaster at Hamburg narrowly avoided

RedorDead

Not sure how to embed it.

See link for video of it. Is it safe to even attempt a landing in those winds???


http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/check/player/nol/newsid_7270000/newsid_7274600?redirect=7274640.stm&news=1&bbram=1&nbram=1&nbwm=1&bbwm=1&asb=1

vulcan57

RedorDead wrote: »

Not sure how to embed it.

See link for video of it. Is it safe to even attempt a landing in those winds???


http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/check/player/nol/newsid_7270000/newsid_7274600?redirect=7274640.stm&news=1&bbram=1&nbram=1&nbwm=1&bbwm=1&asb=1

I saw that on another site. Bet there were plenty of sick bags to be disposed of. Seriously, though, thank god they eventually all got down safely, really frightening.

*Kol*

lostexpectation

wow excellent wait around long enough get an excellent pic

Darwin

Big debate on pprune.org forums about this some saying that Boeing aircraft are easier to manage in a situation like this (due to flight software logic on the Airbus) The general consensus seems that the initial approach was good but they flared too early exposing themselves to the severe gusts. An alternative runway was available that offered more of a headwind (I think) that they could have opted for. Another interesting point mentioned was that crosswinds from the left are to be favoured as wind gusts can veer by 30 degrees or so (thus turning more into a headwind).

pclancy

Fecking hell that was worrying to watch, what was the wind gusting to?

Biro

pclancy wrote: »

what was the wind gusting to?

The left...

Run_to_da_hills

Thats why Ryanair planes have their wings bent up, so that they won't scrape off the ground.

FlutterinBantam

pclancy wrote: »

Fecking hell that was worrying to watch, what was the wind gusting to?

Biro wrote: »

The left...

Clancy was referring to wind speed Biro....

Wind doesn't gust to a direction ,it gusts from....

In this case it was from the right.


All right Bigboy??

Biro

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Clancy was referring to wind speed Biro....

Wind doesn't gust to a direction ,it gusts from....

In this case it was from the right.


All right Bigboy??

Bit of a killjoy tonight, aren't we?!?

FlutterinBantam

Aviation itself is not inherently dangerous,but to even a greater capacity than the sea,it is terribly unforgiving of any CARELESSNESS INCAPACITY or NEGLECT

pclancy

Yeah I meant as in windspeed as in in an ATIS of "wind 25 at 360 gusting 40" or whatever. Either way it just looked like a crazy amount of wind to be landing in.

Oilrig

Flutter,

I notice a trend with your posts that tend to be inciting tabloid type responses.

You sir, in my book are a Troll.

AngryHippie

German Pilot ?

Good save whoever he was, bear in mind, with flaps down at that speed that plane would have been as heavy fcuk, and what a nightmare cross wind, gale force, gusting.

Biggles Award to that man.
And a salary bonus
and fresh boxers, stat.

PhoenixRising

Oilrig wrote: »

Flutter,

I notice a trend with your posts that tend to be inciting tabloid type responses.

You sir, in my book are a Troll.

Put him on your ignore list like I have. I no longer have to suffer those incoherent sound bites he posts as responses. He is a Walter Mitty flight sim expert. Ignore.

FlutterinBantam

PhoenixRising wrote: »

Put him on your ignore list like I have. I no longer have to suffer those incoherent sound bites he posts as responses. He is a Walter Mitty flight sim expert. Ignore.

Girls!!! you obviously can't handle someone who knows what he is talking about.

I have no interest whatsoever whether you ignore or not.;)

RoundyMooney

Stop stirring the pot Bantam.

Biro's comment was, to me at least, tongue in cheek, and raised a chuckle. His retort however, was not. Tabloid kneejerks, or responses, while not to be encouraged, at least incite debate.

Serious incident, yes, but it doesn't mean we suspend all levity.

On topic, that was one frightening incident, and no doubt questions will be raised as to crosswind limits and the like...

ImDave

Found these images of the damage caused to the left wing tip section of the Airbus in question:





Not too bad damage, considering. The aircraft was supposed to return to service on Monday. I read that surface wind conditions were reading at 64kts, but not sure if that was gusting or not. And there was me feeling proud of just about landing a 172 in 20G30!

RoundyMooney

You should be proud.

It's more than I've done so far, for my own part.

At the end of the day, if the guy in the left seat was putting down within tolerances, as I would hope he was, then indeed, a good recovery.

pclancy

64kts! Seems a bit high but it was their call.

EI-DAV 20 gusting 30 in a cessna is hairy i'd say, what was it like?

*Kol*

Inquiry details moments before LH A320 wing-strike in storm
David Kaminski-Morrow, London (22May08, 16:17 GMT, 488 words)


Preliminary investigations into the Lufthansa Airbus A320 wing-strike incident at Hamburg during a storm two months ago show that the twin-jet was under dual control at a critical point of the landing, following an approach conducted by the less-experienced of the two pilots.

Initial information into the 1 March landing, released by German investigation agency BFU, states that flight LH044 from Munich was established on the instrument landing system approach to runway 23 when Hamburg tower informed the crew of 28kt crosswinds, gusting to 47kt.

BFU’s preliminary report contains an excerpt from the quick-reference handbook giving a 30kt limit for a manually-flown crosswind landing. The 2min average wind for runway 23 was 33kt, although the 300° bearing would have lowered the crosswind component.

While the captain had over 10,200h flight experience, with more than 4,120h on type, the crew had previously agreed that the sector would be flown by the 24-year old co-pilot who had accumulated just 579h with 327h on type.

The pilots were told that 50% of approaches in the previous 10min had resulted in a go-around. Tower controllers offered the alternative runway 33 but the crew declined. The pilots, however, were prepared for the possibility of a missed approach.

Flight-data recorder information shows that, in the final moments of the approach, both pilots were applying sidestick input. A320 aircraft are able to accept dual input; the inputs from the two sidesticks are numerically summed.

At a height of 75ft the aircraft began to drift to the left, and the co-pilot moved the sidestick 10° right, while at 50ft the sidestick was moved left accompanied by a 28° left-rudder input. The captain gave 4.5° right-hand input to his sidestick at 15ft, and the co-pilot also moved her sidestick from left to right.

The aircraft banked 4° left, touching down briefly with the left main landing-gear, before the roll angle increased to 23° left and the wing-tip struck the runway.

While the crew had noticed the lifting of the right wing, neither realised the aircraft had contacted the ground. Both the co-pilot and the captain deflected their sidesticks to the right, and there was 14° right-rudder input.

The co-pilot called a go-around, which was confirmed by the captain, and then the captain took full control of the aircraft by pressing his sidestick button to transfer input priority.

After completing the go-around the captain returned control of the aircraft to the co-pilot, who conducted a localiser-DME approach to runway 33 and landed without further incident. None of those on board was injured.

The wing-strike occurred at about 450m (1,480ft) from the runway 23 threshold and damaged the A320’s wing-fence, slats and guide tracks. “A runway inspection was then carried out but no parts were found,” states the BFU.

It has not completed its investigation into the incident and has yet to reach any conclusions about the event. Lufthansa states that both pilots are still employed by the airline.

Biro

A crash caused by a woman - nothing new there then!
Looking like the pilots will take a rap though.

Kevster

Jesus, I can [partially] imagine what the passengers were going through. I was on an Aerolineas Argentinas flight from Buenos Aires to Puerto Iguazu a few years ago and the wind was intense. The pilot basically approached the runway at an angle and then landed on one set of back-wheels before banking to get the other set down. A few people on the airplane were terrified, including myself.

I know that that is a standard way of landing in severe cross-winds. However, I didn't know that at that particular time.