US missiles strike two houses in Somalia; District commissioner: 3 women, 3 children

BostonFenian

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The United States attacked a "known terrorist target" with precision missiles in southern Somalia on Monday, a U.S. military official said.
The strike near Dhoobley, which is close to the Kenyan border, was aimed at a "facility where there were known terrorists" affiliated with East African al Qaeda operations, according to the official.
The strike destroyed two houses -- killing three women and three children, and wounding another 20 people -- Dhoobley's District Commissioner Ali Nur Ali Dherre told CNN. Dherre said the remains of the missiles were marked "US K."
The U.S. military official said the United States is still collecting post-strike information and is not yet able to confirm any casualties.
He described Monday's strike as "very deliberate" and said forces tried to use caution to avoid hitting civilians.
Villagers have fled in fear of another strike, Dherre said.
"We woke up with a loud and big bang and when we came out we found our neighbor's house completely obliterated as if no house existed here," Fatuma Abdullahi, a resident of the town, told The Associated Press. "We are taking shelter under trees. Three planes were flying over our heads."
Clan elder Ahmed Nur Dalab told AP that said a senior Islamic official, Hassan Turki, was in town Sunday to mediate between his fighters and a militia loyal to the government. Turki's forces took over Dhoobley last week, AP reported.
Dherre told CNN he did not know of any Islamist extremists in the village.
The United States conducted similar strikes in southern Somalia in January 2007 against al Qaeda targets, hoping to kill some of the militants suspected in the 1998 attacks against the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania.
U.S. officials later confirmed they did not believe they achieved that goal.
The 2007 targets also included members of the Islamic Courts Union, who had recently been driven out of power in Somalia by Ethiopian-backed Somali troops.
Washington accuses the Islamic movement of harboring fugitives from the al Qaeda terrorist network, including a suspect in the 1998 embassy bombings.
Somalia has been mired in chaos since 1991, when warlords overthrew dictator Mohamed Siad Barre and then turned on each other

Thoughts?

gandalf

I think the idea is you give your thoughts first as per the charter.

BostonFenian

gandalf wrote: »

I think the idea is you give your thoughts first as per the charter.

Sorry, at work, and just wanted to put it up quickly.

I'd like to know what intelligence was so actionable that we needed to strike in Somalia, and how it would be worth the obvious causualties of innocents. Was it so urgent that another safer method couldn't be found?

GuanYin

OP, read the charter - we're not a newsfeed, we're a discussion forum.

Gandalf - *AHEM* backseat modding???

BostonFenian

PSI: Las Vegas wrote: »

OP, read the charter - we're not a newsfeed, we're a discussion forum.

I was already chastised, and already apologized, but thank you all the same.

Zombrex

BostonFenian wrote: »

Thoughts?

War crime.

Imagine if Al Queda had said they were just trying to kill one person in Tower 2. Would everyone have gone "Oh, thats ok then"

BostonFenian

Wicknight wrote: »

War crime.

Imagine if Al Queda had said they were just trying to kill one person in Tower 2. Would everyone have gone "Oh, thats ok then"

hehe, fair enough, I think.

Would it be alright if they had hit only their target?

Akrasia

BostonFenian wrote: »

Sorry, at work, and just wanted to put it up quickly.

I'd like to know what intelligence was so actionable that we needed to strike in Somalia, and how it would be worth the obvious causualties of innocents. Was it so urgent that another safer method couldn't be found?

America (and israel) don't consider the families and neighbours of 'terrorists' to be innocents. And if anyone complains about the deaths of children they claim that it's the 'terrorists' fault for using them as human shields.

GuanYin

BostonFenian wrote: »

I was already chastised, and already apologized, but thank you all the same.

Next time I see a response like that from you, you won't be posting in politics.

BostonFenian

Akrasia wrote: »

America (and israel) don't consider the families and neighbours of 'terrorists' to be innocents. And if anyone complains about the deaths of children they claim that it's the 'terrorists' fault for using them as human shields.

True enough, and another thing I wish would be spoken of more is how many of those innocents who are affected by these strikes are radicalized and become that which the original strike was meant to fight.

I know if I was an 8 year old kid and lost my mom or dad in a botched bombing run, I'd become pretty angry, and look for my opportunity to hit back.

Riddle101

It's just like America to do it the lazy way. I mean what ever happened to these famous Navy Seals or Delta Force soldiers that everybody talks about. Why couldn't they send them in instead. Then again they would be at risk going into an area that could be hostile but hey, he who dares wins

speedboatchase

My thoughts are that I don't really care. Clearly America never meant to target a family for no apparent reason. Hopefully the "civilised" Somalis wont see fit to burn a few Westerners and drag their carcasses down the street.

And to the OP, you don't care about the Somali families either, you just hate the U.S military and want to smear them in any way you can. Does Somalia hold a moral ecquivalence over America to you? If it does, fine then, enjoy sharia law

Playboy

speedboatchase wrote: »

My thoughts are that I don't really care. Clearly America never meant to target a family for no apparent reason. Hopefully the "civilised" Somalis wont see fit to burn a few Westerners and drag their carcasses down the street.

And to the OP, you don't care about the Somali families either, you just hate the U.S military and want to smear them in any way you can. Does Somalia hold a moral ecquivalence over America to you? If it does, fine then, enjoy sharia law

Troll ..

BostonFenian

speedboatchase wrote: »

My thoughts are that I don't really care. Clearly America never meant to target a family for no apparent reason. Hopefully the "civilised" Somalis wont see fit to burn a few Westerners and drag their carcasses down the street.

And to the OP, you don't care about the Somali families either, you just hate the U.S military and want to smear them in any way you can. Does Somalia hold a moral ecquivalence over America to you? If it does, fine then, enjoy sharia law

Sure of that? What else does your crystal ball say?

But seriously, I could list tons of negative consequences of this war on terror, and at the same time, I don't believe I could list a reduction in terror planning and recruitment as a benefit.

That being said, what are we risking killing innocent civilians for?

speedboatchase

Not trolling at all mate, i just have a "difference of opinion" - look it up.

The OP for this article doesn't care about the Somali family, they'll just trawl through Google News to find any post that makes the US Military look bad, then a few guys will mention Israel, Bush etc. It's just how a lot of these threads work.

As I said, there is no way in hell these families were targeted, without the US Military believeing there was some connection to terrorism. The OP is just trying to tell you all that the US deliberately target civilians, which is not true. Maybe an extremist Islamic militant group in Somalia might target civilians instead though?

EDIT - to the guy above me, I don't agree with the War in Iraq at all, though I believe the War in Afghanistan is just. But just spinning article like this is the kind of defeatist attitude that I hate, that all Middle East and North African countries were peaceful utopias until any kind of U.S. incursion

BostonFenian

speedboatchase wrote: »

Not trolling at all mate, i just have a "difference of opinion" - look it up.

The OP for this article doesn't care about the Somali family, they'll just trawl through Google News to find any post that makes the US Military look bad, then a few guys will mention Israel, Bush etc. It's just how a lot of these threads work.

As I said, there is no way in hell these families were targeted, without the US Military believeing there was some connection to terrorism. The OP is just trying to tell you all that the US deliberately target civilians, which is not true. Maybe an extremist Islamic militant group in Somalia might target civilians instead though?

Who said they were targeted? I fail to see how that's the point. I didn't need to google it; I saw it on television. My point is that all this president's war on terror has done is drive recruiting way up, and cement his rush on expanding the executive powers of the presidency.

If in that environment we continue to blindly target these terrorists (which coincidentally always seems to coincide with political events here) and continue to kill innocents, I'm not sure how we can claim any high moral ground. Almost every time I hear of a strike, it's botched, or kills way more civilians than targets.

Collateral damage is acceptable, if it's a do or die war situation, and you're fighting for your right to survive. What are we fighting for here, and what do we tell these families?

MeatProduct

I get really tired of this carry on. Can we not just look at history and LEARN? Rather than killing folks all over the world could we not put some time into researching into why they wish us harm. We might find out that their reasons are not as irrational as we may think. Find out the source and solve that. It's like trying to cure acne by picking at the spots when it might be a bad diet that is causing the problem and no amount of picking will change the root cause.

But fixing the root cause isn't a money spinner and that's our problem. It's our fault since we eat this crap they feed us when they know exactly what they are doing. My goodness, I wonder if we'll ever wake up out of this cycle of fear.

Nick

edanto

I think it's a bit strange. I don't have an opinion on the morality of it, there isn't enough information. For 2 missiles to hit a house, they must have had a pretty good idea who they were targeting.

There's been a lot of activity in Somalia lately, with the government shutting down (source misna.org) several radio stations - something's going on. So far, all we know is that the US is involved.

Perhaps they are killing dangerous terrorists (who presumably hate the Americans because of their freedoms or SUVs), or maybe the US are helping their chums in the Somali government take care of some troublemakers while everyone is looking at Kenya. Me, I'd say it's the latter.

Gurgle

BostonFenian wrote: »

Thoughts?

Some brown people died pointlessly, justifiable for the greater good of the white people.
Same sh`it, different day.

RedPlanet

It's a War Crime.
Imagine if Britain lobbed a missle at a house here in the Republic when an RIRA member was allegdely inside, and 3 women and children were killed.

jonny72

speedboatchase wrote: »

My thoughts are that I don't really care. Clearly America never meant to target a family for no apparent reason. Hopefully the "civilised" Somalis wont see fit to burn a few Westerners and drag their carcasses down the street.

And to the OP, you don't care about the Somali families either, you just hate the U.S military and want to smear them in any way you can. Does Somalia hold a moral ecquivalence over America to you? If it does, fine then, enjoy sharia law

The Sharia law in Somalia was working pretty damn well actually, they had relative peace in the capital, trade, etc was picking up, but the powers that be have to fight communism Islam.

Gurgle

jonny72 wrote: »

The Sharia law in Somalia was working pretty damn well actually, they had relative peace in the capital, trade, etc was picking up, but the powers that be have to fight communism Islam.

You haven't been paying attention.
The enemy is communism Islam OPEC terrorism

BostonFenian

Gurgle wrote: »

You haven't been paying attention.
The enemy is communism Islam OPEC terrorism

Hehe, that made me laugh... Too bad it's true. Always need an enemy.

Moriarty

RedPlanet wrote: »

It's a War Crime.
Imagine if Britain lobbed a missle at a house here in the Republic when an RIRA member was allegdely inside, and 3 women and children were killed.

You reckon Ireland and Somalia are comparable?

Does war have to be declared before there's such a thing as a war crime? Isn't there the small matter of a trial beforehand aswell?

Or are you unconcerned with facts and law when it suits your needs?

905

I notice thing have developed further:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7280887.stm

The Islamists are on the move again.