PR or ER

itsallaboutheL

brianthebard wrote: »

I disagree, when i got up to 92.5/95kg for twenty I set a new 1rm for myself, 15kg over my previous max, after lifting nothing heavier than that max 20 reps for a year.

in fairness at our level of squatting a 15kg jump in a year is a gigantic fail




I didn't say you won't get stronger i said you won't get as strong as you could have.... i can't believe it can be the optimal way... can you not see why???

and i really don't think its any where near the most efficient way for people still squatting tidily-winks like us.......

cardio,shoot me

brianthebard

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

in fairness at our level of squatting a 15kg jump in a year is a gigantic fail

Ahem, I did mention that I was injured for ten months of that-I was saying that I hadn't done a max lift in a year.

I didn't say you won't get stronger i said you won't get as strong as you could have.... i can't believe it can be the optimal way... can you not see why???

and i really don't think its any where near the most efficient way for people still squatting tidily-winks like us.......

But you haven't shown me how? I explained that you add weight to the twenty reps or to the close to max lifts your on about, its the same idea! If you add weight you get stronger. Tbh I think you're just on a smolov fad and can't see past the percentages!

itsallaboutheL

brianthebard wrote: »

Ahem, I did mention that I was injured for ten months of that-I was saying that I hadn't done a max lift in a year.





But you haven't shown me how? I explained that you add weight to the twenty reps or to the close to max lifts your on about, its the same idea! If you add weight you get stronger. Tbh I think you're just on a smolov fad and can't see past the percentages!

its not the same idea because 20reps is still an endurance rep range regardless of wether you're adding weight or not... i just dont think its the optimum way to add weight to your max

we might as well agree to disagree unless some one else wants to join in!!



okay so why dont you do 20reppers for bench??

Hanley

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

i told ya when i can do a 140kg widow maker i will!!

What are you calling it a widow maker for? Are you doing it after training biceps, forearms, calves and hamstrings, and a heavy 5-8 rep quad movement? Cos if you're not, it's not a widow maker. It's a 20 rep squat.

kevpants wrote: »

I had a 190kg squat in Dec 08. I started 5/3/1 in Jan. I squatted 215kg in April having never lifted more than 77% of that weight in the gym between Dec and April.

The theory that sub maximal weights will leave you with a less than optimum max is balls. Though it's not like you're the only one who believes it! It's pretty much an accepted fact.... an accepted fact made of balls. Big hairy ones.

Win.

And no, 20 rep squats were never popularised by Dante Trudel. They've literally been around forever, but if you want to attribute their current popularity to anyone, give it to Randall Strossen and his book Super Squats.

Hanley

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

okay so why dont you do 20reppers for bench??

Endurance...? That's the point - your legs are designed to do 2 things - be really fcuking strong, and carry you really long distances. THAT's why 20 rep squats works so well. It teaches you how to grind thru hard reps, how to keep your positions even when you're shaking and tired, and makes your legs grow like fcuking weeds.

And it's obviously not the optimum way. I don't think anyone is trying to argue that it is, Brian?? It is effective, and it will lay the foundation for even greater gains going forward.

And what's all this sh!t about either doing 5 reps OR 20 reps. Has Kev not told everyone how great a result he had combing both???

itsallaboutheL

77% of 215 is ~90% of your original max there by negating the arguement for 75% squats.... i think!!


Hanley do you not see my point about training 20 reppers being sub-optimal for max progress

Hanley

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

77% of 215 is ~90% of your original max there by negating the arguement for 75% squats.... i think!!

Kev went no higher than 167.5kg before he squatted 215 as far as I remember.

167/215 = 77%. I know this because I made such a big deal over how I couldn't get over it.

He can lift 215kg, but trained to do it using no more than 167.5kg. He got a new max while using no more than 77% of that weight. So no, it doesn't negate the argument!

Hanley do you not see my point about training 20 reppers being sub-optimal for max progress

Do you not see that you have your blinkers on?? You're latching onto certain training styles and programs and completely disregarding everything else. If you spend a couple months on 20 rep squats, and then move onto lower rep work I'd nearly bet my house you'd have a higher max at the end of it all than if you just did 20 reppers or 5 rep sets only.

itsallaboutheL

Hanley wrote: »

Kev went no higher than 167.5kg before he squatted 215 as far as I remember.

167/215 = 77%. I know this because I made such a big deal over how I couldn't get over it.




Do you not see that you have your blinkers on?? You're latching onto certain training styles and programs and completely disregarding everything else. If you spend a couple months on 20 rep squats, and then move onto lower rep work I'd nearly bet my house you'd have a higher max at the end of it all than if you just did 20 reppers or 5 rep sets only.

that was what started this off!! Brian is talking about only doing 20 reppers and it was the effectiveness of this i was questioning,,,,,, so in a way i do have my blinkers on coz i cant see it being the most efficient way, and that was what i was trying to say!!!

kevpants

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

that was what started this off!! Brian is talking about only doing 20 reppers and it was the effectiveness of this i was questioning,,,,,, so in a way i do have my blinkers on coz i cant see it being the most efficient way, and that was what i was trying to say!!!

This is feckin great! I suppose I was being pretty annoying L!

Let me play Devil's advocate. Training in the heavy rep range is probably optimal for lifting a big 1RM IF you can progress on it and keep adding weight. My point was there is no sense in slogging away lifting heavier weights and not setting PR's but telling yourself that because you're training the heavy rep range you are efficient at moving heavy weights.

If you backed off to 75% or 80% and did more reps but were progressing better i.e setting PR's and constantly adding weight then THAT is the best way to train for a big 1RM.

On the other side of the coin if you suck at 20 reppers or sets of 5 with 75% or whatever and make progress with heavy reps then that is the best way to train!

The part of your theory I have the difficulty with is that because you are regularly under heavy weight you'll be more used to it. It seems to make sense but I can tell you it is just one approach and it's not gospel. If you bring your 20 rep weight from 120kg to 150kg your old 1RM is gonna feel like a piece of piss.

brianthebard

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

that was what started this off!! Brian is talking about only doing 20 reppers and it was the effectiveness of this i was questioning,,,,,, so in a way i do have my blinkers on coz i cant see it being the most efficient way, and that was what i was trying to say!!!

Grr, I hate it when people misinterpret me, I never said you should only do 20 reps, if I had said that I'd be a hypocrite cause I'm not doing that right now. 20 reps is effective because of the reasons Hanley outlined. If you start talking about more or less efficient programmes then you're going down the route of finding that magic formula that doesn't exist-20 reps is proven to work, and its different to what you've been doing for the length of this log as far as I can see, so that's why I suggested it. I have to say your argument is pretty flawed-there are plenty of inefficiencies in your training right now! There is no "most" efficient way of training.

itsallaboutheL

brianthebard wrote: »

Grr, I hate it when people misinterpret me, I never said you should only do 20 reps, if I had said that I'd be a hypocrite cause I'm not doing that right now. 20 reps is effective because of the reasons Hanley outlined. If you start talking about more or less efficient programmes then you're going down the route of finding that magic formula that doesn't exist-20 reps is proven to work, and its different to what you've been doing for the length of this log as far as I can see, so that's why I suggested it. I have to say your argument is pretty flawed-there are plenty of inefficiencies in your training right now! There is no "most" efficient way of training.

i wasn't talking about my own training!!!

Can i revert back to my very first point and see if anyone agrees with it!!


I had said to brian that im not going to do 20reppers untill i could do them with 120 or whatever


It was that if Mr.A trains 20reppers to get stronger till hes repping 120 and Mr.B trains with near maximal weights to get stronger untill he too can drop down and rep 120 for 20, then Mr Bs max is going to be higher

which in fairness was all i said!! then i decided to play disagreeable tennis with Kev!!

itsallaboutheL

Hai I can haz training liek Bodybuilder

Hang Snatches
50kg x 8
55kg 2 x 5
60kg x 3

Power Snatches
60kg x 2
62.5kg x 2
65kg x 2
67.5kg x 2
70kg x 2
72.5kg x um.... 1

For some reason i've stopped dropping to catch powersnatches

1 arm snatch
30kg 2 x 3 each side
35kg x 3 each side
40kg x 3
42.5kg x 3

V. Close Grip Bench
60kg x 10
70kg x 10
80kg x 10
90kg x 10
60kg x 20

Rolling Tricep Extentions Kinda (more of a skull crusher)
40kg x 10
50kg x 10
45kg 3 x 12

Close Grip Push downs
not sure wat weight, man i hate doing these on lat pulldown machines
2 x 20

DB Alternating Curls
'20kg 'bells
4 x 30 booooo yup yup yup yaaa buddy

Reverse Curls
40kg x mine grip is atrocious!!
30kg
3 x 20

:pac:I do like a good pump now and again:rolleyes:

the drifter

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

:pac:I do like a good pump now and again:rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

itsallaboutheL

the drifter wrote: »

:rolleyes:

you am... can't bate it

the drifter

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

you am... can't bate it

:rolleyes:

cardio,shoot me

would you get the feckin vid of your 1 arm snatch up you lazy hoe.

itsallaboutheL

cardio,shoot me wrote: »

would you get the feckin vid of your 1 arm snatch up you lazy hoe.

ya i'll get another vid!

itsallaboutheL

Today

Front Squats
60kg
3 x10

Squats
60kg x 10
70kg x 5
80kg x 5
90kg x 5
100kg x 5
110kg x 5
120kg 5 x 5

60kg Floor Wipers setted with floor press


And yes i realise i'm squatting air!!

the drifter

i dont think i could do 120 5x5 now

cardio,shoot me

i could... if i wanted to..

itsallaboutheL

the drifter wrote: »

i dont think i could do 120 5x5 now

Will you start logging again you lazy skinny bastard!!:P

the drifter

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

Will you start logging again you lazy skinny bastard!!:P

no my epic failure of some light weight is embarrassing :P

Hanley

the drifter wrote: »

no my epic failure of some light weight is embarrassing :P

At least post a pic of the guns!

the drifter

Hanley wrote: »

At least post a pic of the guns!

mwhaaaaa no ....

itsallaboutheL

Tonight

Reverse Grip BORs
60kg x 10
70kg x 10
80kg x 10
85kg 2 x 10
80kg x 10

Pendlay Rows
60kg x 10
70kg x 5
80kg x 5
90kg x 5
100kg x 5
90kg 3 x 5*

I've always done these slightly different to Hanley and what they are really is a strict Bent over row from the floor

Shovel Deadlifts (new best exercise ever!)
40kg x 5 each side
45kg 4 x 5 each side


Massive Giant Set Drop Set
Lat Pull Downs/ Pulldowns to neck / Reverse Grip Pulldowns

i spent at least 5 minutes lifting constantly it nearly killed me
absolutely vicious!!

mmm nice sessions i was sweatin buckets

itsallaboutheL

Aerobics 3hrs.............

and 30 chin-ups

PWO 10 pints and a park of Marly Lights...................,:p

the drifter

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

Aerobics 3hrs.............

and 30 chin-ups

PWO 10 pints and a park of Marly Lights...................,:p

fixed for you!

RHunce

aerobics? :rolleyes:

:pac:

cardio,shoot me