Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Mind/Body Problem...

Options
  • 04-03-2008 4:37pm
    #1
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭


    Hello folks, I'd like to open a discussion about the nature of the mind.

    I like to hear opinions on whether you think thoughts and ideas are a purely physical process or is the mind something other that matter? Are you a monist or a dualist?

    To quote from Wikipedia:

    "The question, then, is how it can be possible for conscious experiences to arise out of a lump of gray matter endowed with nothing but electrochemical properties."

    How can our minds, if they're nothing more than electrochemical processes, produce abstract thoughts about ideas such as justice, freedom, mathematics, metaphysics, encryption, morality etc. Ideas are not material. Clearly a notion such as "the self" is not composed of atoms.

    Another related question is why is man capable of asking philosophical questions and using abstract thought? Why can't animals do this? Why are we the only species capable of these things? It's obviously not determined by brain size because there are animals with bigger brains than ours.

    Personally, I think the only satisfying answer is spirit. I believe it is a spirit which gives us intelligence and the ability to love. I know spirit is unsatisfactory to atheists because spirit is mostly undetectable. I find atheists a stubborn in this regard. Spirit is a good explanation for how the mind works and I also think infinite spirit (God) is a good explanation for what kicked off the big bang, the point at which something came out of nothing and the reason why physics breaks down. But now I'm digressing. Back to mind matters....

    Any thoughts?

    Regards,
    Noel.


«134

Comments

  • Options
    #2
    CerebralCortex
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭CerebralCortex


    kelly1 wrote: »
    Hello folks, I'd like to open a discussion about the nature of the mind.

    I like to hear opinions on whether you think thoughts and ideas are a purely physical process or is the mind something other that matter? Are you a monist or a dualist?

    To quote from Wikipedia:

    "The question, then, is how it can be possible for conscious experiences to arise out of a lump of gray matter endowed with nothing but electrochemical properties."

    How can our minds, if they're nothing more than electrochemical processes, produce abstract thoughts about ideas such as justice, freedom, mathematics, metaphysics, encryption, morality etc. Ideas are not material. Clearly a notion such as "the self" is not composed of atoms.

    Another related question is why is man capable of asking philosophical questions and using abstract thought? Why can't animals do this? Why are we the only species capable of these things? It's obviously not determined by brain size because there are animals with bigger brains than ours.

    The brain is vastly complex. The ability to love and reason is probably written or hardcoded into the brain when we're born. I'm no expert.
    kelly1 wrote: »
    Personally, I think the only satisfying answer is spirit. I believe it is a spirit which gives us intelligence and the ability to love. I know spirit is unsatisfactory to atheists because spirit is mostly undetectable. I find atheists a stubborn in this regard. Spirit is a good explanation for how the mind works and I also think infinite spirit (God) is a good explanation for what kicked off the big bang, the point at which something came out of nothing and the reason why physics breaks down....

    Merely a guess a what gives us our thoughts and it requires a lot of blind faith.


  • Options
    #3
    Wreck
    Registered Users Posts: 2,139 ✭✭✭Wreck


    kelly1 wrote: »

    "The question, then, is how it can be possible for conscious experiences to arise out of a lump of gray matter endowed with nothing but electrochemical properties."

    How can our minds, if they're nothing more than electrochemical processes, produce abstract thoughts about ideas such as justice, freedom, mathematics, metaphysics, encryption, morality etc. Ideas are not material. Clearly a notion such as "the self" is not composed of atoms.

    Another related question is why is man capable of asking philosophical questions and using abstract thought? Why can't animals do this? Why are we the only species capable of these things? It's obviously not determined by brain size because there are animals with bigger brains than ours.

    Personally, I think the only satisfying answer is anti-spirit. I believe it is an anti-spirit which gives us intelligence and the ability to love. Anti-spirit is mostly undetectable. Anti-spirit is a good explanation for how the mind works.

    Probably one of my more convincing arguments. Everything explained satisfactorily?


  • Options
    #4
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    kelly1 wrote: »
    Personally, I think the only satisfying answer is spirit.
    I think this is the key point here. You require an answer.

    Consciousness is an amazing thing - but we know it comes from the brain. A simple crack on your head with a lump hammer will prove that! But just because we can't de-construct the entire workings of the human brain, doesn't mean we have to resort to a paranormal explanation.

    There is nothing about humans to suggest they have a spirit, any more than animals. If you shoot a human and a giraffe the exact same thing happens. They both die and decompose.

    It's okay to not have all the answers, as long as the search for those answers continues.


  • Options
    #5
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    Wreck wrote: »
    Personally, I think the only satisfying answer is anti-spirit. I believe it is an anti-spirit which gives us intelligence and the ability to love. Anti-spirit is mostly undetectable. Anti-spirit is a good explanation for how the mind works.

    Probably one of my more convincing arguments. Everything explained satisfactorily?
    Looking for the children's forum?


  • Options
    #6
    Tim Robbins
    Registered Users Posts: 9,000 ✭✭✭Tim Robbins


    kelly1 wrote: »
    How can our minds, if they're nothing more than electrochemical processes, produce abstract thoughts about ideas such as justice, freedom, mathematics, metaphysics, encryption, morality etc. Ideas are not material. Clearly a notion such as "the self" is not composed of atoms.
    Cleary? I think it is anything but clear.
    It's obviously not determined by brain size because there are animals with bigger brains than ours.
    If you compare human brain size to body mass and body volume, it far exceeds the rest of the animal kingdom.
    We have a massive brain / body mass compared to our closest cousins and primates. It's about 6 times their size. The intellegience / brain size correlation has been thrown out by science a long time ago. It is more the ratio of brain size: body mass / volume.
    Personally, I think the only satisfying answer is spirit. I believe it is a spirit which gives us intelligence and the ability to love. I know spirit is unsatisfactory to atheists because spirit is mostly undetectable. I find atheists a stubborn in this regard. Spirit is a good explanation for how the mind works and I also think infinite spirit (God) is a good explanation for what kicked off the big bang, the point at which something came out of nothing and the reason why physics breaks down. But now I'm digressing. Back to mind matters....
    Well I don't accept that answer because it is more of the same old mantra:
    "I don't know, so it must be God!" This is why I don't like theology. While I appreciate your type of Theology searches for some intellectual reasoning as opposed to some creationist nutters, I really don't like the suspension of questioning, investigation and invoking the proverbial God of Gaps.

    I'll believe in God when there is positive evidence for one, not every time we come across a puzzle in Science.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    lookinforpicnic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 143 ✭✭lookinforpicnic


    Wreck wrote: »
    Personally, I think the only satisfying answer is anti-spirit. I believe it is an anti-spirit which gives us intelligence and the ability to love. Anti-spirit is mostly undetectable. Anti-spirit is a good explanation for how the mind works.

    Probably one of my more convincing arguments. Everything explained satisfactorily?

    Ha, or maybe its our ingestion of alcohol, clearly people who don't drink are not nice people and most probably stupid, thats why the Irish are such a holy nation you know...


  • Options
    #8
    pH
    Registered Users Posts: 4,188 ✭✭✭pH


    kelly1 wrote: »
    Personally, I think the only satisfying answer is spirit. I believe it is a spirit which gives us intelligence and the ability to love. I know spirit is unsatisfactory to atheists because spirit is mostly undetectable. I find atheists a stubborn in this regard. Spirit is a good explanation for how the mind works and I also think infinite spirit (God) is a good explanation for what kicked off the big bang, the point at which something came out of nothing and the reason why physics breaks down. But now I'm digressing. Back to mind matters....

    This would be a satisfying answer if we found that our cranium was full of empty space, but it isn't - there's a brain in there, and we know that this brain produces all of these abstract thoughts and ideas. How do we know this you may ask? Well brain damage for one.

    If we have an incorporeal spirit inside us that gives rise to the things you mention then damage to the physical brain shouldn't affect these things, but we find it does. Your ability to do mathematics and what moral choices you make can be altered by damaging parts of the brain or even by using drugs. Your conciousness and self is clearly produced by your physical brain, if it wasn't then what's the purpose of this grey matter, surely this incorporeal spirit would make it unnecessary?

    On a side note, do those with severe brain damage or mental health problems recover their full faculties in heaven? Is Schizophrenia a disease of the brain or the spirit in your view?


  • Options
    #9
    Wreck
    Registered Users Posts: 2,139 ✭✭✭Wreck


    kelly1 wrote: »
    Looking for the children's forum?

    Sorry, it was a little facetious of me. I was merely trying to point out that your 'satisfying answer' explains nothing and is essentially meaningless.


  • Options
    #10
    Tim_Murphy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,995 ✭✭✭Tim_Murphy


    Originally Posted by kelly1
    Personally, I think the only satisfying answer is spirit. I believe it is a spirit which gives us intelligence and the ability to love. I know spirit is unsatisfactory to atheists because spirit is mostly undetectable. I find atheists a stubborn in this regard. Spirit is a good explanation for how the mind works and I also think infinite spirit (God) is a good explanation for what kicked off the big bang, the point at which something came out of nothing and the reason why physics breaks down....
    The word 'spirit' the way you are using it is basically interchangeable with words like God or Magic. You call it a good explanation but it really doesn't explain anything. It doesn’t tell us anything and effectively amounts to a ‘We don’t know’. It would be much more honest of course just to say we don’t know.


  • Options
    #11
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    Dades wrote: »
    I think this is the key point here. You require an answer.
    And what's wrong with that? There has to be a reason for everything. Would you say the same thing to those scientists who are trying to understand the cause of the Big-Bang? Give up boys, you don't need to know everything.
    Dades wrote: »
    Consciousness is an amazing thing - but we know it comes from the brain.
    A simple crack on your head with a lump hammer will prove that! But just because we can't de-construct the entire workings of the human brain, doesn't mean we have to resort to a paranormal explanation.
    No, we don't know that consciousness comes from the brain. Has some new discovery been made that I'm not aware of?
    Dades wrote: »
    There is nothing about humans to suggest they have a spirit, any more than animals.
    How does a material object come up with concepts such as infinity. How can matter produce something which is totally unrelated to matter e.g the concept of justice? Justice isn't physical, it's not composed of atoms so what produced it?
    Dades wrote: »
    It's okay to not have all the answers, as long as the search for those answers continues.
    I believe progress in science is asymptotic i.e. we creep closer and closer to the limit of knowledge but ever more slowly. The theory of everything seems to be frustratingly elusive. Are we making any progress with string theory, brane theory and M theory? I predict there will never be a theory of everything because science ignores the spiritual world.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    Obni
    Registered Users Posts: 424 ✭✭Obni


    Kelly1,
    I believe Dades was questioning your requirement to resolve the issue and obtain a final answer immediately; and if science can't join all the dots then fill the gaps with spirituality.
    I don't think anyone suggested that you stop looking for answers, just that you shouldn't settle for so impoverished an answer as 'We can't explain that bit, so it must be spirit'.

    By the way, have you ever considered that if we discover a final TOE (theory of everything), that it could be seen as a key piece of evidence of divine presence?
    The probability that a short-lived organic life-form would develop a full understanding of the staggeringly complex universe in which it finds itself, is surely so low, that if we do figure it all out it could only be by divine intervention?

    I predict there will never be a theory of everything because we're on our own in this search, and it may prove beyond us.


  • Options
    #13
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    kelly1 wrote: »
    No, we don't know that consciousness comes from the brain. Has some new discovery been made that I'm not aware of?
    If I deprive your brain of oxygen what happens? You lose consciousness.
    Maybe that's a new discovery for you.
    kelly1 wrote: »
    How does a material object come up with concepts such as infinity. How can matter produce something which is totally unrelated to matter e.g the concept of justice? Justice isn't physical, it's not composed of atoms so what produced it?
    How does an intangible, invisible, undetectable spirit come up with these concepts?!! The matter explanation seems more realistic!


  • Options
    #14
    lookinforpicnic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 143 ✭✭lookinforpicnic


    kelly1 wrote: »
    And what's wrong with that? There has to be a reason for everything. Would you say the same thing to those scientists who are trying to understand the cause of the Big-Bang? Give up boys, you don't need to know everything.
    Of course nothing is wrong with searching for answers, but what is wrong (and plainly a bit thick) is substituting the word spirit in somewhere as an explanation, the idea of a spirit doesn't explain anything, why does it give you intelligence? why can you feel love with it? its just ridiculous. Read some cognitive neuroscience and you might see what a real explanations looks like.
    kelly1 wrote: »
    I predict there will never be a theory of everything because science ignores the spiritual world.
    Thats just nonsense, science deals with evidence give some evidence for the spiritual world and it can be included in the theories.

    Be interesting to hear what you think on pH's question do you think that schizophrenia (or any other neuropsychological disease) is a disease of the spirit or the brain?


  • Options
    #15
    LaVidaLoca
    Closed Accounts Posts: 277 ✭✭LaVidaLoca


    "Personally, I think the only satisfying answer is spirit. I believe it is a spirit which gives us intelligence and the ability to love. I know spirit is unsatisfactory to atheists because spirit is mostly undetectable. I find atheists a stubborn in this regard. Spirit is a good explanation for how the mind works and I also think infinite spirit (God) is a good explanation for what kicked off the big bang, the point at which something came out of nothing and the reason why physics breaks down. But now I'm digressing. Back to mind matters....

    This is just white noise.

    You find atheists stubborn because they dont admit to beleiving in things there is no evidence for? Spirit is an explanation, sure, but not one for which there is any evidence. Therefore it's not a good one. You're free to beleive it of course, but dont ask anybody to respect you for it.


  • Options
    #16
    ghouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21 ✭ghouse


    Can we stay on point pls and stop attacking the OP's opinions.

    From the point of view of evolution, the human mind is a difficult road-block. Many of the functions we have that are not mirrored in animals we are apparently closely related to, give some cause for confusion.

    Until we have more information on the brain and the development of the thought processes unique to man, we should avoid ascribing the currently inexplicable to the paranormal and equally inexplicable.


  • Options
    #17
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    pH wrote: »
    This would be a satisfying answer if we found that our cranium was full of empty space, but it isn't - there's a brain in there, and we know that this brain produces all of these abstract thoughts and ideas. How do we know this you may ask? Well brain damage for one.
    There is also the theory that the brain is the vehicle and the spirit is the driver. The brain obviously is required to send signals to the muscles etc to produce motion. But where does the will to move a muscle come from? If I'm standing there with a gun pointed at some-one, what decides whether I pull the trigger?
    pH wrote: »
    If we have an incorporeal spirit inside us that gives rise to the things you mention then damage to the physical brain shouldn't affect these things, but we find it does. Your ability to do mathematics and what moral choices you make can be altered by damaging parts of the brain or even by using drugs. Your conciousness and self is clearly produced by your physical brain, if it wasn't then what's the purpose of this grey matter, surely this incorporeal spirit would make it unnecessary?
    Cleary the brain is used in the thought process but is it the ultimate source of all our thoughts or just a funnel? I'm inclined to think that drugs act like a tap either restricting the flow of thoughts or opening up to allow a greater flow of thoughts.
    pH wrote: »
    On a side note, do those with severe brain damage or mental health problems recover their full faculties in heaven? Is Schizophrenia a disease of the brain or the spirit in your view?
    Everyone separates from their physical bodies at the point of death so there is no physical brain present to obstruct the workings of the spirit. So yes, I do believe the dead will have full use of their thinking faculties. As regards schizophrenia, I don't know. I think it's difficult to separate mind and spirit so I imagine both are involved.


  • Options
    #18
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    ghouse wrote: »
    Can we stay on point pls and stop attacking the OP's opinions.
    Noel's post is the point of this thread!


  • Options
    #19
    Wreck
    Registered Users Posts: 2,139 ✭✭✭Wreck


    kelly1 wrote: »
    But where does the will to move a muscle come from? If I'm standing there with a gun pointed at some-one, what decides whether I pull the trigger?

    A purely physical process based on cause and effect taking place in the matter contained in your skull.


  • Options
    #20
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,417 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    kelly1 wrote: »
    I like to hear opinions on whether you think thoughts and ideas are a purely physical process or is the mind something other that matter? Are you a monist or a dualist?
    At the risk of self-labelling, I'd tend to the monist point of view. I don't see how declaring the existence of an undefined "spirit" clarifies the matter in any way. It's rather like a creationist claiming "god did it" in response to some question, and hoping that this explains the problem.
    kelly1 wrote: »
    Ideas are not material. Clearly a notion such as "the self" is not composed of atoms.
    Yes, not of atoms alone. It seems that ideas and feelings all the rest of the state-based paraphernalia of a living mind is encoded in the unending interplay of neurons, electrical signals and an assortment of chemicals. How consciousness, or the feeling of consciousness, arises from that is a complete mystery, but at lower levels, some progress is being made. Researchers have identified how bits and pieces of the visual subsystem works, and how bits of the aural and other subsystems work. In time, this knowledge will probably increase, but at the moment, it's woefully incomplete.

    The fact that the human brain is very sensitive to the presence of mood-altering substances -- alcohol, caffeine, LSD and so on -- suggests that mood and the sense of self is, bizarrely, a chemical phenomenon, no matter how much we might like to think otherwise.

    If an immaterial "spirit" somehow controlled the mind, then how come it's so sensitive to material chemicals?


  • Options
    #21
    monkeyfudge
    Registered Users Posts: 23,216 ✭✭✭✭monkeyfudge


    Memory plays a huge part in what makes you who you are.

    Thoughts and ideas would be created from the juxtapositions of different memories and experiences you have. Jumble that up with the built in biological and genetic impulses and you come up with a unique consciousness.

    And memory is very much a function of the biological brain.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    Obni wrote: »
    By the way, have you ever considered that if we discover a final TOE (theory of everything), that it could be seen as a key piece of evidence of divine presence?
    The probability that a short-lived organic life-form would develop a full understanding of the staggeringly complex universe in which it finds itself, is surely so low, that if we do figure it all out it could only be by divine intervention?
    Interesting thought. That a tiny part of the universe, a by-product of the big-bang, would have a complete understanding of the whole of the universe including it's origin, seems a little unlikely to say the least.
    Obni wrote: »
    I predict there will never be a theory of everything because we're on our own in this search, and it may prove beyond us.
    I really do think we're approaching a limit of knowledge. The particle accelerators are getting bigger and bigger and the particles being produced are getting shorter lived. Intuitively speaking, I'd say physicists are running out of ideas.


  • Options
    #23
    monkeyfudge
    Registered Users Posts: 23,216 ✭✭✭✭monkeyfudge


    Yeah... but you're trying to study something from the point of view of being inside the petri dish... I can't see how with that limited perspective how fully understanding the universe will ever be within our grasp.


  • Options
    #24
    Wreck
    Registered Users Posts: 2,139 ✭✭✭Wreck


    kelly1 wrote: »
    I really do think we're approaching a limit of knowledge.

    How is the idea that there is a limit to knowledge compatible with the existence of an omniscient god (i.e. a being with infinite knowledge)

    Way off topic I know.


  • Options
    #25
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    kelly1 wrote: »
    I really do think we're approaching a limit of knowledge.

    "Everything that can be invented has been invented."

    Charles H. Duell, U.S. Office of Patents, 1899


  • Options
    #26
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    Dades wrote: »
    If I deprive your brain of oxygen what happens? You lose consciousness. Maybe that's a new discovery for you.
    That doesn't prove that the brain is the source of consciousness. The brain could be an "interconnect" between the physical body and the spirit. I think we could use the analogy of a puppet and a puppeteer.

    Puppeteer corresponds to spirit
    Strings correspond to brain
    puppet corresponds to body

    Without the strings(brain) the puppet falls down lifeless.
    Dades wrote: »
    How does an intangible, invisible, undetectable spirit come up with these concepts?!! The matter explanation seems more realistic!
    Really? How does matter produce ideas (non-matter)?


  • Options
    #27
    Wreck
    Registered Users Posts: 2,139 ✭✭✭Wreck


    kelly1 wrote: »
    That doesn't prove that the brain is the source of consciousness. The brain could be an "interconnect" between the physical body and the spirit. I think we could use the analogy of a puppet and a puppeteer.

    Puppeteer corresponds to spirit
    Strings correspond to brain
    puppet corresponds to body

    Ok so in your analogy the puppeteer makes physical contact with the strings to control the puppet.

    How does an immaterial spirit contact or manipulate or connect with the material brain?


  • Options
    #28
    pH
    Registered Users Posts: 4,188 ✭✭✭pH


    kelly1 wrote: »
    That doesn't prove that the brain is the source of consciousness. The brain could be an "interconnect" between the physical body and the spirit. I think we could use the analogy of a puppet and a puppeteer.

    Puppeteer corresponds to spirit
    Strings correspond to brain
    puppet corresponds to body

    Without the strings(brain) the puppet falls down lifeless.

    We know that when we lose consciousness it's not just the the body that falls down limp, you don't continue to think and be self aware whilst you're unconscious.

    And not all brain damage purely affects the the ability of the consciousness to control the body, certain types of brain damage can dramatically affect a person's morality, who they love, their ability to solve complex problems etc.

    Have a read here. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that part of 'us' is separate from the actual physical brain and immune to physical damage. Everything we observe is entirely consistent with our consciousness, personality and faculties emerging purely from electrical and chemical reactions within the brain.


  • Options
    #29
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    lookinforpicnic wrote: »
    Of course nothing is wrong with searching for answers, but what is wrong (and plainly a bit thick) is substituting the word spirit in somewhere as an explanation, the idea of a spirit doesn't explain anything
    Why doesn't it? Scientists may not like the idea but that doesn't mean it's wrong. It's wrong of scientists to assume that they will some day have the answer to these questions. Can scientists not accept that everything might not have a natural/physical explanation? Of course if scientists allowed for the possibility of the supernatural, then they would also have to accept that they might never get to the bottom of these questions and that would bring an end to science as we know it. So the only possible way forward for science is to deny the possibility of the supernatural, thereby keeping their egos afloat.
    lookinforpicnic wrote: »
    , why does it give you intelligence? why can you feel love with it? its just ridiculous.
    I think something immaterial is more likely to be the source of immaterial things such as concepts, ideas, love etc.
    lookinforpicnic wrote: »
    Read some cognitive neuroscience and you might see what a real explanations looks like.
    Does it fully explain the source of ideas, decision-making, passion for knowledge etc or just offer theories?


  • Options
    #30
    Xhristy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 510 ✭✭✭Xhristy


    This post has been deleted.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #31
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,857 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    kelly1 wrote: »
    Personally, I think the only satisfying answer is spirit. I believe it is a spirit which gives us intelligence and the ability to love. I know spirit is unsatisfactory to atheists because spirit is mostly undetectable. I find atheists a stubborn in this regard. Spirit is a good explanation for how the mind works and I also think infinite spirit (God) is a good explanation for what kicked off the big bang, the point at which something came out of nothing and the reason why physics breaks down. But now I'm digressing. Back to mind matters....

    Don't be f*cking ridiculous........

    How about this for a satisfying answer: I DO NOT KNOW

    There's a crazy phrase you don't often hear coming from theists' mouths! It's usually translated into the following: GOD DID IT :rolleyes:

    I tend to leave sh*t like this to people who have studied it for years and experimented and analysed their results. Y'know, like we did with physics and biology and chemistry........ You'll find they tend to yield results when they're not being undermined by moronic sh*t like this. Psychology as a scientific subject is relatively young, so give it time to develop as a discipline and you'll have adequate answers which you can then force into your Biblical interpretation of everything, like an ill-placed jigsaw piece.


Advertisement