Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Why Is There An Athiest Board?

Options
24

Comments

  • Options
    #32
    cormie
    Registered Users Posts: 20,836 ✭✭✭✭cormie


    I don't believe in God, but I'd like to. The same way I loved believing in Santa when I was younger. Something magical, something special and something to look forward to, be it at Christmas, or when I pass away. I don't know if the fact I'd like to believe in God and like to be somewhat spiritual makes me a non-atheist and to be honest, I don't care and I'm not bothered in finding out what group, if any, I fit into. I am what I am and I don't care for being categorised.

    Even though I don't believe in God, I've never had an interest in visiting this forum, I've clicked the odd post, as I would in any other forum, even the likes of the Muslim and Christianity forums. This is my first reply in this forum.

    One of the posts I have read here is the buying of catholic.ie, or christian or whatever one it was. I find this pretty pointless unless it was actually going to be used as a proper website or a commercial venture because of the "controversial" choice of domain name which could possibly spark more traffic.

    The only thread I could imagine myself starting here would be one asking for something like a list of schools that don't try push a certain belief on my child if I ever have one. But that would be probably more suited to the parenting or education forums:)


  • Options
    #33
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    cormie wrote: »
    I don't believe in God, but I'd like to. The same way I loved believing in Santa when I was younger. Something magical, something special and something to look forward to, be it at Christmas, or when I pass away. I don't know if the fact I'd like to believe in God and like to be somewhat spiritual makes me a non-atheist and to be honest, I don't care and I'm not bothered in finding out what group, if any, I fit into. I am what I am and I don't care for being categorised.
    At least you're not a cynical atheist (or don't appear to be). The world would be a better place if all atheists were like you!
    cormie wrote: »
    One of the posts I have read here is the buying of catholic.ie, or christian or whatever one it was. I find this pretty pointless unless it was actually going to be used as a proper website or a commercial venture because of the "controversial" choice of domain name which could possibly spark more traffic.
    Many atheists claim to simply have no belief in any god, and far from being impartial are in fact very anti religion. Those who rubbish Christianity are picking a fight with God.


  • Options
    #34
    Sir Digby Chicken Caesar
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,556 ✭✭✭✭Sir Digby Chicken Caesar


    if we rubbish dentists are we picking a fight with the tooth fairy?


  • Options
    #35
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    Mordeth wrote: »
    if we rubbish dentists are we picking a fight with the tooth fairy?
    Honestly I get tired of people comparing God with the tooth fairy, Santa, the Flying Spaghett Monster, Thor and Zeus etc. It's like me telling you that evolution is totally random. It's a bit childish really.


  • Options
    #36
    Sir Digby Chicken Caesar
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,556 ✭✭✭✭Sir Digby Chicken Caesar


    how so?

    what makes the jewish god any different than the roman, greek or celtic gods?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #37
    Beruthiel
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 42,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Beruthiel


    kelly1 wrote: »
    Honestly I get tired of people comparing God with the tooth fairy, Santa, the Flying Spaghett Monster, Thor and Zeus etc.

    They are one in the same. There is no proof of existance for any of the above.


  • Options
    #38
    Zulu
    Registered Users Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    Beruthiel wrote: »
    They are one in the same. There is no proof of existance for any of the above.
    Because they can't be proved doesn't make them the same.
    The tooth fairy, santa and the FSM are different.
    Completely different.


    ...the FSM doesn't actually give you anything.


  • Options
    #39
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    Mordeth wrote: »
    how so?

    what makes the jewish god any different than the roman, greek or celtic gods?
    We know that the tooth fairy, FSM and Santa are fabrications and have absolutely nothing to do with God. So why bother mentioning these fables unless you're just trying to wind people up?

    Some religions can be eliminated on the basis that they contradict logic so not all hold up to close scrutiny. Hinduism is self-contradictory because it incorporates a myriad of conflicting beliefs so I think that can safely be ruled out. Islam was fabricated and is derived from Judaism and Chrisianity but with the inconvenient bits thrown away. It came after Christianity and contradicts it.

    Of course nobody can prove that any religion is the true but it's logical that either all religions are false or at most one is true. And in my opinion, in the context of theism, the one that most stands up to scrutiny is Christianity.

    So please don't insult people by comparing God to the tooth fairy. Atheists need to start having respect for people beliefs and stop being so arrogant.


  • Options
    #40
    Sir Digby Chicken Caesar
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,556 ✭✭✭✭Sir Digby Chicken Caesar


    well of course you think christianity stands up the best to scrutiny, you're christian.

    ye gods.


  • Options
    #41
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    kelly1 wrote: »
    Hinduism is self-contradictory because it incorporates a myriad of conflicting beliefs so I think that can safely be ruled out. Islam was fabricated and is derived from Judaism and Chrisianity but with the inconvenient bits thrown away. It came after Christianity and contradicts it.
    kelly1 wrote: »
    Atheists need to start having respect for people beliefs and stop being so arrogant.
    I think that's priceless!


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #42
    Jim
    Registered Users Posts: 14,181 ✭✭✭✭Jim


    People do love to label themselves.


  • Options
    #43
    pH
    Registered Users Posts: 4,188 ✭✭✭pH


    kelly1 wrote: »
    We know that the tooth fairy, FSM and Santa are fabrications and have absolutely nothing to do with God.
    How do we know this? (this is a serious question - on what basis can we distinguish a fabrication from reality?)

    Some religions can be eliminated on the basis that they contradict logic so not all hold up to close scrutiny. Hinduism is self-contradictory because it incorporates a myriad of conflicting beliefs so I think that can safely be ruled out. Islam was fabricated and is derived from Judaism and Chrisianity but with the inconvenient bits thrown away. It came after Christianity and contradicts it.

    The above is so self-contradictory that I originally thought you were joking! Christianity is so self-contradictory it's not funny, incorporating many conflicting beliefs, and came after and contradicts Judaism therefore it *must* be wrong by your own logic.
    Of course nobody can prove that any religion is the true but it's logical that either all religions are false or at most one is true. And in my opinion, in the context of theism, the one that most stands up to scrutiny is Christianity.

    And of course in my opinion (and I presume some other atheists) none of them stand up to scrutiny *any more* than the tooth fairy, Santa Claus or the FSM.
    So please don't insult people by comparing God to the tooth fairy. Atheists need to start having respect for people beliefs and stop being so arrogant.

    Dades has said all that needs to be said about this one I think!


  • Options
    #44
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    Mordeth wrote: »
    well of course you think christianity stands up the best to scrutiny, you're christian.

    ye gods.
    So you just attack at the weakest point and ignore the rest of my post?


  • Options
    #45
    Obni
    Registered Users Posts: 424 ✭✭Obni


    kelly1 wrote: »
    We know that the tooth fairy, FSM and Santa are fabrications and have absolutely nothing to do with God. So why bother mentioning these fables unless you're just trying to wind people up?
    [clipped]
    So please don't insult people by comparing God to the tooth fairy. Atheists need to start having respect for people beliefs and stop being so arrogant.

    Clearly, the role played by god in a believer's life is immeasurably more important that played by the character's listed above. If your comments on hinduism or islam plunge you into a debate with other believers, then while you differ in your beliefs, the different gods you believe in hold a comparable significance in both of your lives.

    Apart from the fact that treating the sombre and serious doctrines of a religion from which you have lapsed in a facetious manner is mildly amusing (or if you prefer you can replace factiousness with arrogant disdain) , there is a more serious dimension to the comparison of god to the tooth-fairy etc...
    When you stop believing in god, religion's temporal components - the role it plays in an individual's psychology, its political power, and its cultural and social influence - remain a very real factor in your life. However, the spiritual component immediately loses all significance. Belief in god has as much influence over your intellect as belief in the tooth-fairy.

    Don't forget, this is the atheist and agnostic forum (although it seems to be primarily the former). If you consider many atheists in Ireland were brought up as roman catholics, then god can legitimately be defined within this forum as a fictional character, that we believed in when we were children, but which we outgrew as we matured. The fact that you still choose to take it seriously not only is not, but indeed should not, be a primary concern of ours.


  • Options
    #46
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    Dades wrote: »
    I think that's priceless!
    How so? Because my belief is not based on science as if science was the only thing that mattered!? Your attitude is just so blinkered and pompous! Are you so arrogant that you can't see that?
    Jimeatsmenu wrote: »
    People do love to label themselves.

    Do you guys ever stop and think to yourselves, "hmm, maybe I am being an arrogant prig"?!?!?


  • Options
    #47
    pH
    Registered Users Posts: 4,188 ✭✭✭pH


    kelly1 wrote: »
    How so? Because belief on science as if science was the only thing that mattered!? Your attitude is just so blinkered and pompous! Are you so arrogant that you can't see that?

    Dades was comparing and contrasting your arrogant and disrespectful dismissal of the Hindu faith (among others) with your accusation that atheists are arrogant and lack respect for religious beliefs. I don't believe it has anything to do with science.
    Do you guys ever stop and think to yourselves, "hmm, maybe I am being an arrogant prig"?!?!?
    Do you?


  • Options
    #48
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    pH wrote: »
    How do we know this? (this is a serious question - on what basis can we distinguish a fabrication from reality?)
    Nobody has any reason to believe in the tooth fairy etc. These are clearly childrens fables. So why compare these with the Judeo-Christian God of revelation? The Judeo-Christian God is not a fabrication. It is my belief that God revealed Himself to the Jews over many, many years. You have no basis for saying that this God is a fabrication unlike the FSM etc.
    pH wrote: »
    The above is so self-contradictory that I originally thought you were joking! Christianity is so self-contradictory it's not funny, incorporating many conflicting beliefs, and came after and contradicts Judaism therefore it *must* be wrong by your own logic.
    Your lack of understanding does not make Christianity contradictory. I suggest you educate yourself.


  • Options
    #49
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    kelly1 wrote: »
    Your attitude is just so blinkered and pompous! Are you so arrogant that you can't see that?
    Noel, the only difference between you and me is that where you dismiss two of the worlds biggest religions, I would dismiss three! How does that make me arrogant!

    I'm not the one who thinks the entire universe was created for me, one of God's chosen squadron. I think we evolved from pond life - and back to the pond we'll go. :)


  • Options
    #50
    Wreck
    Registered Users Posts: 2,139 ✭✭✭Wreck


    kelly1 wrote: »
    We know that the tooth fairy, FSM and Santa are fabrications and have absolutely nothing to do with God. So why bother mentioning these fables unless you're just trying to wind people up?

    Some religions can be eliminated on the basis that they contradict logic so not all hold up to close scrutiny. Hinduism is self-contradictory because it incorporates a myriad of conflicting beliefs so I think that can safely be ruled out. Islam was fabricated and is derived from Judaism and Chrisianity but with the inconvenient bits thrown away. It came after Christianity and contradicts it.

    Of course nobody can prove that any religion is the true but it's logical that either all religions are false or at most one is true. And in my opinion, in the context of theism, the one that most stands up to scrutiny is Christianity.

    So please don't insult people by comparing God to the tooth fairy. Atheists need to start having respect for people beliefs and stop being so arrogant.

    How can you even suggest this? The whole Christian definition/desription of god is logically inconsistent. On the other hand it is at least arguable that it is not logically impossible for the tooth fairy to exist. The bible itself is full of contradictions and inconsistencies, and for you to state that it holds up to scrutiny is laughable.

    And can you please tell me why I need to respect your beliefs? You obviously don't respect other religions, and the hypocritical attack on the 'arrogance' of atheism just shows the lack of rigour in your thinking.


  • Options
    #51
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    Obni wrote: »
    Apart from the fact that treating the sombre and serious doctrines of a religion from which you have lapsed in a facetious manner is mildly amusing (or if you prefer you can replace factiousness with arrogant disdain) , there is a more serious dimension to the comparison of god to the tooth-fairy etc...
    When you stop believing in god, religion's temporal components - the role it plays in an individual's psychology, its political power, and its cultural and social influence - remain a very real factor in your life. However, the spiritual component immediately loses all significance. Belief in god has as much influence over your intellect as belief in the tooth-fairy.
    The point I'm making is that we all know the tooth fairy etc are fabrications designed to amuse and delight children. You can't say with any certainty that the God of Abraham and Jesus Christ is a fabrication. People have very good reasons for believing in this God and your lack of belief is your choice. And don't tell me you have no evidence for God's existence as it makes no difference to those people who have lots of sound reasons for belief.
    Obni wrote: »
    Don't forget, this is the atheist and agnostic forum (although it seems to be primarily the former). If you consider many atheists in Ireland were brought up as roman catholics, then god can legitimately be defined within this forum as a fictional character, that we believed in when we were children, but which we outgrew as we matured. The fact that you still choose to take it seriously not only is not, but indeed should not, be a primary concern of ours.
    Belief in God has nothing to do with maturity. Equating belief in God with childishness is simply wrong not to mention arrogant and insulting.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #52
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    Dades wrote: »
    Noel, the only difference between you and me is that where you dismiss two of the worlds biggest religions, I would dismiss three! How does that make me arrogant!

    I'm not the one who thinks the entire universe was created for me, one of God's chosen squadron. I think we evolved from pond life - and back to the pond we'll go. :)
    Maybe I misunderstood you. Could you clarify what you meant when you said "I think that's priceless"?


  • Options
    #53
    pH
    Registered Users Posts: 4,188 ✭✭✭pH


    kelly1 wrote: »
    The point I'm making is that we all know the tooth fairy etc are fabrications designed to amuse and delight children. You can't say with any certainty that the God of Abraham and Jesus Christ is a fabrication.
    How do we know the tooth fairy is a fabrication?


  • Options
    #54
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    kelly1 wrote: »
    Maybe I misunderstood you. Could you clarify what you meant when you said "I think that's priceless"?
    You dismissed two world religions in 3 lines as being logically inconsistent or fabricated, and then suggested atheists stop being arrogant and respect other beliefs!

    I'll admit there isn't a lot of respect shown to particular beliefs here - but that needn't be confused with arrogance. I'd prefer to label it enthusiasm. :)


  • Options
    #55
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    Wreck wrote: »
    How can you even suggest this? The whole Christian definition/desription of god is logically inconsistent.
    Did it ever occur to you that your understanding is lacking? How much theology have you studied?
    Wreck wrote: »
    And can you please tell me why I need to respect your beliefs? You obviously don't respect other religions, and the hypocritical attack on the 'arrogance' of atheism just shows the lack of rigour in your thinking.
    OK fair point. It's arrogant of me to disrespect other peoples beliefs. But please don't equate belief in God with the tooth fairy.


  • Options
    #56
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    kelly1 wrote: »
    Honestly I get tired of people comparing God with the tooth fairy, Santa, the Flying Spaghett Monster, Thor and Zeus etc. It's like me telling you that evolution is totally random. It's a bit childish really.

    Evolution is a random process is an untrue statement, and it is possible to demonstrate as such.

    If God (ie your god) exists and all of the others don't then it is untrue to compare him to these other things.

    But if he doesn't exist (he doesn't by the way) then the idea is exactly the same.

    So if you can demonstrate he does exist and all the others don't I will happily stop comparing your god to imaginary gods and other imaginary supernatural creatures.


  • Options
    #57
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    pH wrote: »
    How do we know the tooth fairy is a fabrication?
    How do we know the toe-nail fairy doesn't exist? We don't know that the tooth doesn't exist but there is absolutely no reason whatever to believe in the tooth fairy. The same can't be said of God.


  • Options
    #58
    Wreck
    Registered Users Posts: 2,139 ✭✭✭Wreck


    kelly1 wrote: »
    Wreck wrote:
    How can you even suggest this? The whole Christian definition/desription of god is logically inconsistent.

    Did it ever occur to you that your understanding is lacking? How much theology have you studied?

    No theology as such, I did take Philosphy of Religion as part of my undergrad course. While I'm not claiming to be an expert, I have studied the thesitic conception of God in some depth.

    But none of that really matters.


  • Options
    #59
    Wreck
    Registered Users Posts: 2,139 ✭✭✭Wreck


    kelly1 wrote: »
    How do we know the toe-nail fairy doesn't exist? We don't know that the tooth doesn't exist but there is absoluted no reason whatever to believe in the tooth fairy. The same can't be said of God.

    Can you please give me one reason to believe in god?


  • Options
    #60
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    Wicknight wrote: »
    Evolution is a random process is an untrue statement, and it is possible to demonstrate as such.
    Yes I know! Comparing God with the FSM and saying that evolution is random is annoying for both sides of the debate.
    Wicknight wrote: »
    But if he doesn't exist (he doesn't by the way) then the idea is exactly the same.
    For someone who mentions proof so frequently, I'm suprised to hear you say that God *doesn't* exist. Is it more honest to say that you *don't know*?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #61
    pH
    Registered Users Posts: 4,188 ✭✭✭pH


    kelly1 wrote: »
    How do we know the toe-nail fairy doesn't exist? We don't know that the tooth doesn't exist but there is absoluted no reason whatever to believe in the tooth fairy. The same can't be said of God.

    You still refuse to answer the question "How do we know the tooth fairy doesn't exist". Now you're changing it to "We've no reason to believe in the tooth fairy", well what if people do have reason to believe in the tooth fairy? There are many good reasons to believe in the tooth fairy - "free money" for one, and anecdotal evidence that she exists - don't you agree?


Advertisement