Article: Dirty number plates in line for penalty points

Traumadoc

javaboy wrote: »

As WA said earlier "those of us who are responsible motorists will have adapted our driving to the prevailing conditions". If the mud is there every winter shouldn't the locals realise that? Obviously the odd tourist will be caught by surprise

To the poster who complained about coming around a bend to see traffic stopped and skidding in a load of mud, aren't you supposed to only travel at a speed that will allow you to stop in the distance ahead that you can see to be clear? I've come across roaming sheep, crashed cars, nattering neighbours etc. around bends but I've always been able to stop in time.

Why does the council grit the road in icy conditions its obviously a complete waste of money- not needed at all.

the_syco

I liken checks for a dirty number plate on a country road, akin to the f**kers doing speed checks on a motorway. Cash cow.

orbital83

I liken checks for a dirty number plate on a country road, akin to the f**kers doing speed checks on a motorway. Cash cow.

+1
The subjectivity of this is what bothers me.
I should hope what is dirty and what's not is determined by common sense, rather than the need to generate revenue and issue offences to meet a quota.

It's easy knowing there's a hole in the public finances.
Motoring fines were up 87% year-on-year in Feb 2008.
Source: http://www.finance.gov.ie/documents/exchequerstatements/2008/Feb08.pdf
Expect this increase to become exponential, with more wacky schemes being devised. Bertie's property bubble has burst, they can't screw us for stamp duty + VAT on some commuterville shoebox any more, so they need something else.

Silvera

It's about time such offences were made 'on the spot' fines..so to speak. Whether they should attract penalty points or not is another matter.
For all the people who bemoan such things, ask yourself...what if a car with an obscured/unreadable/dirty plate crashed into your car and kept going...only for you to try in vain to read the illegible/dirty number plate??!

Number plates are there for a reason...so a vehicle can be identified/traced in the event of an accident or breach of road traffic laws.
Having illegible or dirty plates is almost as bad as having no plates at all!

Penalty points or 'on the spot' fines should also be introduced for plenty more offences such as -

Not having lights/reg plate/safety chains on trailers
Unsafe/insecure loads on trailers
Improper display (or non display) of Trade Plates
etc etc etc

Such offences are 'ticket' offences in most countries years ago!

Esel

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

...motorcyclists who place their hand over the plate while going through speed cameras...

Lmao at this! How long would your arms have to be?

WHITE_P

I don't really have an issue, with this, as part of proper vehicle maintainence involves keeping windows, mirrors, lights and reg. plates clean, however what bothers me is how it will be enforced. Will it be the usual zero tolerance shown to motoring offences, or if you have a reasonable explaination, will the gardai use thier own descretion / common sense.

It does seem the timing of it, is really linked to the implementation of the "safety" carmera roll out.

The muck etc. on our roads is an issue that needs to be addressed, I can't understand how some people here seem to be taking the high moral ground and claiming it is not an issue and motorists are responsible. I have come accross dangerous situations on our roads caused by irresponsible people / companies leaving crap all over the road, where it could result in accidents irrespective of the motorists driving standard.

prospect

I don't have a major problem with this, although to portray it under the guise of a safety measure is just insulting...

At the very least, they could include dirty Lights (front & rear) also. I think encouraging people to keep their brake light lenses clean is far more important.

javaboy

prospect wrote: »

I don't have a major problem with this, although to portray it under the guise of a safety measure is just insulting...

At the very least, they could include dirty Lights (front & rear) also. I think encouraging people to keep their brake light lenses clean is far more important.

Anyone who's brake lights are manky enough not to be visible is also likely to have a dirty illegible license plate I'd say. So they'll still be pulled up.

Can you imagine the uproar from the revenue moaners if they were summonsed for 1)dirty license plate 2)dirty brake light 3)dirty indicators 4)dirty headlights etc.? It would cost a fortune in fines

There are very few situations where someone would have a dirty license plate and have a really valid excuse. I'm sure most guards will exercise discretion as they do with almost every other motoring offence.

Saruman

faceman wrote: »

im all for this, dont see what the fuss is

The fuss is this, i have on many occasions when its dry one day, put my car through a car wash. The next day its raining and with something being constructed every few hundred mtrs on most roads, the roads are full of muck, all it takes is ONE truck either in front of me or even just driving in the opposite direction to completely cover my car in mud. I have run out of water using my wipers after only filling up a day or two beforehand because every time a truck drives in the opposite direction, i can not see a thing!

The fuss is simply this. You could be very careful, clean you car every weekend and one messy day a few trucks filthy up your car, and you get penalty points for having a dirty plate

prospect

javaboy wrote: »

Anyone who's brake lights are manky enough not to be visible is also likely to have a dirty illegible license plate I'd say. So they'll still be pulled up.

Can you imagine the uproar from the revenue moaners if they were summonsed for 1)dirty license plate 2)dirty brake light 3)dirty indicators 4)dirty headlights etc.? It would cost a fortune in fines

There are very few situations where someone would have a dirty license plate and have a really valid excuse. I'm sure most guards will exercise discretion as they do with almost every other motoring offence.

I see your point, but it is not really what I meant,

Undoubtedly you will get lazy dicks with dirty cars, who will wipe their licence plates to avoid penalty points, but ignore their brake lights/indicators etc.

Also, afaik, if you get pulled for two or more penalty points offences, you can only get points for one of the offences, usually the highest points offence.

PaddyFagan

Sorry,

I just don't get the fuss - _you_ are responsible for ensuring your car is in a road worthly condition _every_ time you drive on the public road. If you're not capable of doing this then you are a danager to yourself and everyone else on the road.

I would see have legible number plates as one element of this - as other posters have pointed out if you where struck by a car that left the scene of an accident then you'd be mightly pissed if you couldn't read the plates, because of muck or some dodgy font.

Just my 2c,

Paddy

blastman

Just to re-iterate, the timing of this is the problem (or at least the problem that I have with it). Govt. announces speed camera roll-out and almost immediately announces the possibility of penalty points for dirty number plates is not coincidental and highly cynical to my mind. Does this make the speed camera rollout look like the action of an administration genuinely concerned about road safety? Does it buggery!

javaboy

blastman wrote: »

Just to re-iterate, the timing of this is the problem (or at least the problem that I have with it). Govt. announces speed camera roll-out and almost immediately announces the possibility of penalty points for dirty number plates is not coincidental and highly cynical to my mind. Does this make the speed camera rollout look like the action of an administration genuinely concerned about road safety? Does it buggery!

Think of it this way, if you were convinced like the government appears to be that speed cameras are an effective way of improving road safety (not looking to rehash that debate here btw) then wouldn't it make sense to ensure that they can do their job?

N8

wasn't a sticker invented that went over the number plate (or over the numbers but under the plastic) that kept it clean looking but when flashed at by the camera obscured the numbers??

javaboy

N8 wrote: »

wasn't a sticker invented that went over the number plate (or over the numbers but under the plastic) that kept it clean looking but when flashed at by the camera obscured the numbers??

This kind of thing along with reflective number plates is illegal AFAIK. Probably under the same piece of legislation that bans speed trap detectors.

N8

javaboy wrote: »

This kind of thing along with reflective number plates is illegal AFAIK. Probably under the same piece of legislation that bans speed trap detectors.

As illegal as dirty number plates?

Fey!

Are they going to get "reg plate dirt level measurers" when they get the "orange light measurer" for the NCT centre?

Who decides what level of dirt is too much dirt?

Wouldn't it be more appropriate in terms of "safety" to be on the lookout for dirty and defective lights than dirty number plates? Or is it deemed right that so many cars on our roads have only one light working?

*refering to the number of cars that fail for their indicators not being orange enough!!!

javaboy

N8 wrote: »

As illegal as dirty number plates?

Not sure that one thing can be more illegal than another but I'd imagine Gardai and judges would take a dimmer view of someone using someone that is designed to evade the law as opposed to someone being neglectful about cleaning their plates.

WHITE_P

javaboy wrote: »

Not sure that one thing can be more illegal than another but I'd imagine Gardai and judges would take a dimmer view of someone using someone that is designed to evade the law as opposed to someone being neglectful about cleaning their plates.

My concern about this whole thing is, it's just another thing for some garda to throw at you, if he takes a dislike to you.

Before people start coming out with bullsh!t like that wouldn't happen, Ive had personal experience of gardai who for no other reason than my accent (I'm from Dublin), have shown an obvious dislike to me.

I'm usually very polite and respectful to the gardai even though I've good reason to dislike them. Although now a days I will not let them treat me like sh!t.

Be under no illusion that if a garda gets you in a district court, for any motoring offence, you will be convicted, even if you are not guilty of any offence, and yes I've seen this happen in the district court.

N8

javaboy wrote: »

Not sure that one thing can be more illegal than another but I'd imagine Gardai and judges would take a dimmer view of someone using someone that is designed to evade the law as opposed to someone being neglectful about cleaning their plates.

They probably would however as I understood it the film over the plate is pretty much undetectable unless you are up close - the only time it is really noticed is when the camera takes the photo and can't identify the digits or numerals

Does anyone know where to get some?

Saruman

PaddyFagan wrote: »

Sorry,

I just don't get the fuss - _you_ are responsible for ensuring your car is in a road worthly condition _every_ time you drive on the public road. If you're not capable of doing this then you are a danager to yourself and everyone else on the road.

That is just moronic! How can you be responsible for driving along in a clean car and a truck throws muck all over you, are you suggesting you pull over every time you get sprayed to make sure your plates are still clean?

Utter Muppetry... Good luck with that if its what you do.
Oh and a dirty reg plate has nothing to do with safety so i have no idea what your statement is about.

javaboy

Saruman wrote: »

That is just moronic! How can you be responsible for driving along in a clean car and a truck throws muck all over you, are you suggesting you pull over every time you get sprayed to make sure your plates are still clean?

Utter Muppetry... Good luck with that if its what you do.
Oh and a dirty reg plate has nothing to do with safety so i have no idea what your statement is about.

While you're cleaning the muck off your lights (they are to with safety and are definitely your responsibility), it wouldn't be any harm to rub the cloth over the license plate too.

A dirty reg plate means your reg cannot be read by cameras,guards or members of the public so you're almost driving with impunity. If people thought they could get away with breaking the ROTR, do you not think there would be a safety issue?

Traumadoc

I have spray cleaners for my headlamp, how often should I pull over to check my number plates?

Cmar-Ireland

Look, no-one stops every few hundred meters to clean off their reg and lights. Anyone that says they do are liars or morons.
Until something is done about people leaving the roads covered in muck, then the dirty reg law is simply a money making racket........END OFF...

javaboy

Cmar-Ireland wrote: »

Look, no-one stops every few hundred meters to clean off their reg and lights. Anyone that says they do are liars or morons.
Until something is done about people leaving the roads covered in muck, then the dirty reg law is simply a money making racket........END OFF...

Nobody's saying they stop every few hundred metres. In fairness I don't that most of the roads are covered in muck. Most license plates I see are clean enough to be read my the naked eye and I'm sure they can be read by cameras and that includes cars which are obviously unwashed and not looked after. So I think this is going to affect very few people in reality. I doubt it's going to be much of a money making racket.

Traumadoc

The problem for the speed cameras, is that a huge proportion of the images cannot be read. and with so many cars doing long commutes plates are getting dirtier.
I know I drive 60 miles daily and my car is filthy. Its not that I do it on purpose but I leave at 630 and get home 12 hours later. Usually I get to clean it on the weekend but it gets filthy again with one commute especially if its wet.

Cionád

Cmar-Ireland wrote: »

Look, no-one stops every few hundred meters to clean off their reg and lights. Anyone that says they do are liars or morons.
Until something is done about people leaving the roads covered in muck, then the dirty reg law is simply a money making racket........END OFF...

End off?

I've a 40 mile commute using mostly backroads, my car gets dirty, sometimes very dirty but never to the extend that you can't read the number plates so your being overly dramatic imo.

I'd say the law would be enforced with discretion, in that a Garda can easily tell if the muck has just been sprayed recently or is a build up from months of negligence.

I don't often see plates completely obscured anyway, when I do it's mainly vans or car-vans. (you know the ones with the "I wish my wife was as dirty as this" etc)

Sometimes I think people just argue for argues sake about issues like this. Just take a bit of responsibility for your vehicle.

javaboy

Cionád wrote: »

Sometimes I think people just argue for argues sake about issues like this.

I'd have to disagree with you there Cionád.

Steve

Cionád wrote: »

you know the ones with the "I wish my wife was as dirty as this"

PMSL best van grafitti ever:D:D

Victor

eringobragh wrote: »

Granted that ,but unless they make us fit wipers onto reg plates how over the space of a ..let say 3 hour trip will you know that your plates are dirty...This country just gets better by the day.:mad:

So, do you drive for 3 hours continuously without taking a break?

astraboy wrote: »

Fair enough, it should probably be an offence.

It is already an offence.

My problem is they are putting in this law in time to ensure the camera system works, it has nothing to do with anyones safety. Enforcing the other points offenses correctly and implementing the ones actually about road safety would help, instead of protecting a handy future revenue stream like they are now.

How does one properly enforce the other points offenses if you have difficulty identifying vehicles and drivers?

WHITE_P wrote: »

Will creating / leaving excessive dirt / mud, etc. on the roads, be made an offence.

Already an offence under the Litter Acts