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Athiests : How did you loose you're faith?

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135

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    #62
    JC 2K3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,794 ✭✭✭JC 2K3


    estebancambias wrote: »
    Honestly I don't give a **** about the statue. I didn't know your age, I assumed you would be older, in fact I hoped.
    Why? So you could look down on him in disgust?


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    #63
    Doctor DooM
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    JC 2K3 wrote: »
    Why? So you could look down on him in disgust?

    Agreed. You'd rather he was an adult with adult faculties who made a decision to do this?


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    #64
    c0rk3r
    Registered Users Posts: 1,256 ✭✭✭c0rk3r


    LaVidaLoca wrote: »
    that science too also contains elements of faith,

    Jaysus, your embarrassing yourself again. No where did i state that science contains faith moreso its "leading me to believe". And to the other the guy those concepts are perfectly valid. Im exiting the building


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    #65
    timetogetfit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭timetogetfit


    Even at 7 or 8 I could plainly see it was nonsense. At 10 I remember testing this by spitting on a statue of the big C and telling him to go **** himself, to see if anything bad would happen to me as a result. Of course it didnt.

    Even though you were young when you did it I still sense you get a kick about thinking about it and posting it here.You have to be respectful and sensitive to the feelings of people who have religious beliefs, even most aethiests would have found that offensive. There are alot of things about religion that make the thought of an afterlife seem ludicrous but not everything in religion needs to be true for there to be an actual afterlife.Its true many people believe because its a nice thought and the thought of death being final is frightening for some people.Alot of people go on here about science being the truth and it is but howmuch of that truth do actually we know and how much of that truth do we have yet to discover.I bet we still have along way to go


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    #66
    JC 2K3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,794 ✭✭✭JC 2K3


    timetogetfit wrote: »
    Alot of people go on here about science being the truth
    No they don't, have you ever read the posts on this forum?

    Science is a methodology which allows us to generate conceptual and applicable models of how the world works. There are no absolute truths in science. Science is just a tool that helps us find out more about how the world works. Science doesn't claim that there's no afterlife or no God, it's just no evidence exists for either.


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    #67
    LaVidaLoca
    Closed Accounts Posts: 277 ✭✭LaVidaLoca


    "You have to be respectful and sensitive to the feelings of people who have religious beliefs, even most aethiests would have found that offensive"

    Why? I didnt ask them to do it. I simply related a story of me doing something 20 odd years ago.

    Firstly, the entire point that many atheists are making is that you dont have to be respectful of religious beleifs. It is a bout calling a spade a spade: If you said you thought there was a flying teapot orbiting the planet, I would say you were a lunatic or a fool, and nobody would worry about you being 'offended' by that statement. Change the flying teapot to the Christian God and Im supposed to respect your 'faith'. Why is this?

    If you really beleive Jesus ist he Son of God or whatever, I cannot imagine by what stretch of the imagination it would 'offend' you that I dont. It simply doesnt make any sense. Secondly as a religious person, society gives you the power to whine "Im offended" oeverytime anyone says anything you dont like.

    As an atheist I either agree with the truth of something or I dont, I cant go into a snit cause something conflicts with my beleif system. If atheists are at times strident in their beleifs, even angry, this is why: We have to listen to the most palpable nonsense being passed off as deep thinking, all the time: Priests in schools, on TV, in public, talking about stuff which to us (and Im not just saying this to be offenseive) is so stupid that a 10 year old child could see through it. And yet we live in a culture that asks us to 'respect' it. Well is it any surprise we go over the top sometimes?


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    #68
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    timetogetfit wrote: »
    Even though you were young when you did it I still sense you get a kick about thinking about it and posting it here.You have to be respectful and sensitive to the feelings of people who have religious beliefs, even most aethiests would have found that offensive.
    You're dead right.
    I'm utterly offended by a story about 10 year old boy spitting on his holidays in Belgium.


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    #69
    redkid
    Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭redkid


    Bduffman wrote: »
    By thinking.

    exactly

    well said


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    #70
    Dr Galen
    Registered Users Posts: 7,373 ✭✭✭Dr Galen


    timetogetfit wrote: »
    Even though you were young when you did it I still sense you get a kick about thinking about it and posting it here.You have to be respectful and sensitive to the feelings of people who have religious beliefs, even most aethiests would have found that offensive. There are alot of things about religion that make the thought of an afterlife seem ludicrous but not everything in religion needs to be true for there to be an actual afterlife.Its true many people believe because its a nice thought and the thought of death being final is frightening for some people.Alot of people go on here about science being the truth and it is but howmuch of that truth do actually we know and how much of that truth do we have yet to discover.I bet we still have along way to go


    i'm not too sure what you mean by having to be repsectful of peoples beliefs.... i don't think I have to for many of the same reasons as LaVidaLoca. I'd be interested to know in what fashion this respect should take? I say live and let live.....if you want to believe all the christian stories, the bible and in a god figure, cool, but the reality is, that many christians cannot live and let live in the same way.

    Now, i do believe that I should repect you, as a person, regardless of your beliefs. Thats maybe the difference here, your all about repecting the "beliefs" whereas atheists are more about respecting whats real.....the person

    Your right when you say some people belief just to feel a bit better, I see this all the time with people taking a lot of comfort during their final days from whatever religion they follow.


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    #71
    905
    Closed Accounts Posts: 67 ✭✭905


    SDooM wrote: »
    I'm not going to argue that some silly- billys don't end up as scientists. That still doesn't make the absolutist religions any better.
    Absolutely, but don't go replacing them with an absolutist religion called science.


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    #72
    Son Goku
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,475 ✭✭✭Son Goku


    905 wrote: »
    Quantum mechanics sounds like complete make-believe, in no way connected to reality.
    Computers use transitors and transitors function due to Bardeen's quantum theory of surface states. So what we have here is a funny irony, a post about quantum mechanics not being connected to reality created using a machine that requires quantum mechanics to function.


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    #73
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,417 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    905 wrote: »
    don't go replacing them with an absolutist religion called science.
    Um, where can I join this science religion?

    While it's been almost a fortnight since the JW's last turned up at my front door trying to make me think like them, I don't ever recall anybody in a labcoat and grizzled hairdo zinging my doorbell trying to convince me that Multi-level Selection Theory is the Truth, and that all those Kin Selectionists are filthy heathen.


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    #74
    905
    Closed Accounts Posts: 67 ✭✭905


    I hate to be pedentic (:rolleyes:) but I pointed out that quantum mechanics sounded like make-believe. I couldn't comment on its existence or reality (wouldn't dare!).

    To bring us back on topic, how did I lose my 'faith'? Well, I started to read a lot of history and I saw that my beliefs were very similar to a lot of earlier mumbo jumbo that was supposedly outdated. Also the actions of fanatics embarassed me, people practising what they condemned.

    I wouldn't say I've lost my faith entirely but I'd certainly take what's said with a pinch of salt. The 'faith' I refer to is science.


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    #75
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,417 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    905 wrote: »
    The 'faith' I refer to is science.
    Science is not in the business of producing things that require "faith". That's the business of religion. You're making a basic category error.


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    #76
    905
    Closed Accounts Posts: 67 ✭✭905


    robindch wrote: »
    Um, where can I join this science religion?

    While it's been almost a fortnight since the JW's last turned up at my front door trying to make me think like them, I don't ever recall anybody in a labcoat and grizzled hairdo zinging my doorbell trying to convince me that Multi-level Selection Theory is the Truth, and that all those Kin Selectionists are filthy heathen.

    I'd say if you went through some of the posts here you'd find plenty that say science is the only way to percieve the world, all others are false, lucky you to have heard the good news compared to those heathens in Godland.

    I've never met any JWs (always had trouble believing they exist; I lead a very sheltered life), but I have come across the likes of Dawkins, telling me to repent or my children will be doomed forever. There's already a thread going about the need for atheists to convert people, so it's not just me.


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    #77
    905
    Closed Accounts Posts: 67 ✭✭905


    robindch wrote: »
    Science is not in the business of producing things that require "faith". That's the business of religion. You're making a basic category error.
    Science routinely comes up with theories and hypotheses that have to be believed in to be realised. Often people act on these things in a manner that requires faith and has serious consequences. Evolution wasn't particularly backed up with evidence for a while but people believed it to be true. Is it still a theory by the way?


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    #78
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,417 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    905 wrote: »
    Science routinely comes up with theories and hypotheses that have to be believed in to be realised.
    <throws in the towel> somebody else can try to sort out this if they want to.


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    #79
    905
    Closed Accounts Posts: 67 ✭✭905


    robindch wrote: »
    <throws in the towel> somebody else can try to sort out this if they want to.
    Robindch, Robindch, why hast thou forsaken me?


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    #80
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    905 wrote:
    I have come across the likes of Dawkins, telling me to repent or my children will be doomed forever.
    Did he call to your door to tell you this? Because he doesn't normally speak using the language of a slightly mad street evangelist.
    905 wrote: »
    There's already a thread going about the need for atheists to convert people, so it's not just me.
    Did you actually read that thread - or just the title as posted by one user?


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    #81
    Simon.d
    Registered Users Posts: 316 ✭✭Simon.d


    905 wrote: »
    Science routinely comes up with theories and hypotheses that have to be believed in to be realised.

    Science in no way requires faith, in fact it's growth and development requires the exact opposite, skepticism.. Yes lots of people do have faith and believe whole heartedly in the findings of science, but this is completely misguided..
    905 wrote: »
    Often people act on these things in a manner that requires faith and has serious consequences.

    Take getting on an aircraft for example.. Personally I hate flying, yet climb into these metallic cylinders and get propelled up very far away from the ground on a regular basis.. Yet it's not science that gets me up there, it's the fact that the vast majority of them land safely.. Climbing aboard is like buying a lottery ticket with the realistic hope your numbers won't be drawn.


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    #82
    905
    Closed Accounts Posts: 67 ✭✭905


    Dades wrote: »
    Did he call to your door to tell you this? Because he doesn't normally speak using the language of a slightly mad street evangelist.

    Did you actually read that thread - or just the title as posted by one user?
    Dawkins didn't call to my door, alas, but he did write a few books. He's been aggresively promoting his beliefs for some time now.

    I did the thread in question (well, most of it). My point was that there was a thread on converting atheists so I'm not the only one.


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    #83
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,417 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    905 wrote: »
    Dawkins didn't call to my door, alas, but he did write a few books.
    Were you forced to read them in school or anywhere else?


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    #84
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    905 wrote: »
    Dawkins didn't call to my door, alas, but he did write a few books. He's been aggresively promoting his beliefs for some time now.

    Er, how exactly are you defining "aggressively" 905?

    You consider writing books and then going on book tours "aggressively" promoting?

    What would you call the Crusades?


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    #85
    905
    Closed Accounts Posts: 67 ✭✭905


    robindch wrote: »
    Were you forced to read them in school or anywhere else?
    Were you forced to listen to the JWs? I wasn't forced to read him but he's still a preacher.


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    #86
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    905 wrote: »
    Science routinely comes up with theories and hypotheses that have to be believed in to be realised.
    Considering science actually does the exact opposite to that, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you don't understand what "science" is.
    905 wrote: »
    Evolution wasn't particularly backed up with evidence for a while but people believed it to be true.

    Evolution is one of the most "backed up" scientific models ever developed.

    People don't simply believe it is true (why do religious people always think that is what science is about?) They work and develop in a manner that if it weren't true they would produce nothing. The fact that they instead produce modern medicine strongly suggests it is true. Unless you think it is all wrong and they some how managed to do this anyway.


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    #87
    905
    Closed Accounts Posts: 67 ✭✭905


    Wicknight wrote: »
    Er, how exactly are you defining "aggressively" 905?

    You consider writing books and then going on book tours "aggressively" promoting?

    What would you call the Crusades?
    He has aggresively engaged many debaters over time, plenty of whom have aggresively responed I'm sure. He has a reputation for losing the rag occasionally you know. If you want we'll use the word passionately. Or maybe leave out adjectives and just say he's promoted his beliefs, which was my original point.
    The Crusades were terribly aggresive, in my opinion. Why do you ask?


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    #88
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    905 wrote: »
    He has aggresively engaged many debaters over time, plenty of whom have aggresively responed I'm sure.
    Define "aggressively" ... did he hit them? Did he hold them down and shout at them?
    905 wrote: »
    The Crusades were terribly aggressive, in my opinion. Why do you ask?
    Well because you seem to think book tours and college debate are aggressive, I was wondering how you would categorise religious war


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    #89
    905
    Closed Accounts Posts: 67 ✭✭905


    Simon.d wrote: »
    Science in no way requires faith, in fact it's growth and development requires the exact opposite, skepticism.. Yes lots of people do have faith and believe whole heartedly in the findings of science, but this is completely misguided..
    Good point Simon.d. I can only respond that the touching faith displayed in scepticism might undermine your argument a little. But I think scientists occasionally take things on trust.

    Continental drift was taught as theory when I was a wee fella, not too long ago. But is every scientist working in the field actively testing this theory or are some of themassuming it to be true and using it as a base for other studies (vulcanology for example)?


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    #90
    905
    Closed Accounts Posts: 67 ✭✭905


    Wicknight wrote: »
    Define "aggressively" ... did he hit them? Did he hold them down and shout at them?


    Well because you seem to think book tours and college debate are aggressive, I was wondering how you would categorise religious war
    How about you stop obsessing about the word aggressive and address the main assertion, which was that Dawkins was promoting his beliefs?


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    #91
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    905 wrote: »
    Good point Simon.d. I can only respond that the touching faith displayed in scepticism might undermine your argument a little. But I think scientists occasionally take things on trust.

    Continental drift was taught as theory when I was a wee fella, not too long ago. But is every scientist working in the field actively testing this theory or are some of themassuming it to be true and using it as a base for other studies (vulcanology for example)?

    Do you understand what a scientific theory actually is? Are you one of these people who likes to say silly things like "its only a theory, not a fact"?


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