How feasible is a BMW M3

jimbling

hey guys... seems like im on here about a car every few months. Every time a new notion comes to my impulsive mind.
I was extremely close to buying a 350Z the other day. It was a great deal but knew the guy really needed to sell so was pushing for a further 1k drop. Low and behold, the car was sold from under my feet.

Anyhoo, the latest craze that I've gotten into my head is an M3.
For a car that is so expensive new (and so damn beautiful), you can get some great deals on second hand ones. There is a few in particular that I am looking at (see below).

So, I'm looking for advice. I have a long list of questions, some of which are particularly about the M3, and others just general advice. I'd appreciate any help ye can give. Would especially appreciate anyone who has an M3 or knows what the day to day use of one is like.


So, my few questions:

What are the important factors to consider when buying a second hand M3?

How likely is it to come across a clocked car? I assume if I make sure there is a full service history I am covered here?

It's a great time to buy from the UK, so that;s where I will likely get it. Should I only consider cars for sale via trade? People say avoid buying privately from UK, but a lot of M3's are sold privately. (anyone know why that is?)

The TAX regime is changing, so I need to get the car in from UK prior to the move up to the 36% category. Am I also right in saying that if I have it registered prior to July that my Tax payment will remain at the current 1400 rather than the 2k of the new regime?

I have made the mistake of buying a car with high mileage on it before, I wish to avoid that mistake again. I feel that with a car like an M3, you are better off buying a 01 with 25k miles than a 04 with 70k miles. There are some great offers for 5/6/7 year old M3s with very low mileage. What are your thoughts on that?

What are the running costs to consider with an M3. Obviously you have the fuel consumption. I presume it will do about 20/25mpg. I can accept this. My own car only does 30mpg as it is. The tax is obviously a consideration, but its a once a year payment I can deal with. What about services? how often does it need a service? every 10k? Is the standard servicing on a car like this way more expensive? I presume tyres/disks etc etc are all way more expensive too. here is where I really would like to hear from someone who owns one.
please feel free to give any other general advice on buying a car like this... i'm sure i'm leaving loads out.

I have a max budget of 40k, but would be looking to get something for around 30/35k if possible.


Ireland:
This is the only one I have really considered for sale in Ireland. It's got a decent spec, but it is 7 years old. I feel I could get it for 27k.
http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/BMW/M3/First-reg./926424/

UK:
This is the main one I am considering. It's lacking in a few of the top extras. The also does not have SMG. I don't know much about it, but heard it is a fantastic system. This ones up the north as well, making it that much easier. I like the colour, although most people I show it to think its vile :eek:
http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/www/cars/BMW+M3/Ne-2-4-5-6-7-8-27-44-49-53-61-64-67-103-133-146,N-9-40-148-231-4294966389-4294967202/advert.action?R=200809304469666&distance=314&postcode=w1k1be&channel=CARS&make=BMW&model=M3&min_pr=1000&max_pr=&max_mileage=40000

More examples:
http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/www/cars/BMW+M3/Ne-2-4-5-6-7-8-27-44-49-53-61-64-67-103-133-146,N-9-40-148-231-4294966389-4294967202/advert.action?R=200809304712085&distance=21&postcode=w1k1be&channel=CARS&make=BMW&model=M3&min_pr=1000&max_pr=&max_mileage=40000
http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/www/cars/BMW+M3/Ne-2-4-5-6-7-8-27-44-49-53-61-64-67-103-133-146,N-9-40-148-231-4294966389-4294967202/advert.action?R=200809304756238&distance=64&postcode=w1k1be&channel=CARS&make=BMW&model=M3&min_pr=1000&max_pr=&max_mileage=40000

if ye spot any others ye think are great deals let me know. I only ever check autotrader.

Gumbo

i would not buy an M3 without :

full leather
SMG II
19" upgraded alloys
TV / sat nav wide screen
bluetooth phone prep
heated seats

etc etc

if the original owner speced up the car fully then the chances are that it was looked after.

have a look on here : http://www.bmw-driver.net/forum/

Plug

Get a csl;)

jimbling

kceire wrote: »

i would not buy an M3 without :

full leather
SMG II
19" upgraded alloys
TV / sat nav wide screen
bluetooth phone prep
heated seats

etc etc

if the original owner speced up the car fully then the chances are that it was looked after.

have a look on here : http://www.bmw-driver.net/forum/

thanks for the info. Haven't seen that many adds where it mentions the bluetooth phone prep etc... but ill keep an eye out.

Anan1

kceire wrote: »

i would not buy an M3 without :

full leather
SMG II
19" upgraded alloys
TV / sat nav wide screen
bluetooth phone prep
heated seats

etc etc

if the original owner speced up the car fully then the chances are that it was looked after.

We're a long way from the spirit of the real M3, aren't we?

Plug

Anan1 wrote: »

We're a long way from the spirit of the real M3, aren't we?

Your right, but thats were the CSL comes in:D

jimbling

Plug wrote: »

Get a csl;)

Don't think that version would be worth the extra money to me. The regular M3 is probably already too much car for me to handle

Gumbo

Anan1 wrote: »

We're a long way from the spirit of the real M3, aren't we?

i know yeah, maybe an M3 CS, its there somewhere in the middle
CSL steering wheel, CSL steering rack, CSL wheels, CSL rear boot lid, CSL seats, but i would still like the smg, and sat nav etc, helps with the resale.

jimbling

thanks again kceire for the link to the bmw forum, shoulda thought of looking for that. There's a load of M3 posts, and I'm starting to get a better picture of it all. Big shocker : Set of tyres for €1500 :eek:

jimbling

another thing I meant to ask is about problems to watch out for... like in some cars the T belt has to be done at 60k miles etc... that sort of .

Gatster

Didn't Cyrus just buy one (an E46) from the UK, he may be along shortly.

jimbling

I was just looking at this model there:
http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/www/cars/BMW+M3/Ne-2-4-5-6-7-8-27-44-49-53-61-64-67-103-133-146,N-40-4294966389-4294967202/advert.action?R=200809304712085&distance=21&postcode=W1K1BE&channel=CARS&make=BMW&model=M3&min_pr=&max_pr=&max_mileage=40000
but when I put it into the VRT Calculator, it tells me the only option is the CSL version (which is an extra few K in tax). This seems to be the Automatic setting. Is the SMG considered automatic or is the heading of this add wrong?

TCP/IP

http://www.mtorque.co.uk/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=1&page=1

rigal

You are correct on the tax front. If you import it before July you will pay the lower (current) road tax for as long as it's on the road.

I imported an RX8 last year after considering both the 350Z and the M3, while doing a bit of research I realised the latter two were out of my budget. When I imported the car the Revenue were starting to clamp down on non declaration of optional extras so you need to bare this in mind when you're looking at a high spec UK model. They don't inspect all cars when you're paying the VRT but if it's a BMW they're more likely to.

Petrol consumption is a big factor. The RX8 is very sore on petrol I never get over 20MPG around dublin. To put that into perspective for you - The most I have ever got from a 60 litre tank of petrol is c.250 miles! I would imagine the M3 is even worse than that although it's a savage car and in my view if you can afford to buy one you should be able to pay the fuel bill.

I only ever considered buying trade in the UK. I wouldn't consider buying trade up North as you will pay a premium and have a much smaller range to choose from compared to across the water. The garage I bought from in Birmingham offered to import the car into Ireland for me at no extra fee and gave me a 6 month parts warranty which they honoured even though I brought the car into another country.

No matter who you buy the car from you should look for mileage verification, HPI and independent mechanic report (RAC/AA).

Also I hear the SMG gear box makes the car a little less demanding to drive.

P.s. If the business press are to be believed the next few months could be the perfect window to buy in the UK as the UK CB are likely to cut interest rates further while the ECB will lag behind. This will weaken £ further against the €.

jimbling

rigal wrote: »

You are correct on the tax front. If you import it before July you will pay the lower (current) road tax for as long as it's on the road.

I imported an RX8 last year after considering both the 350Z and the M3, while doing a bit of research I realised the latter two were out of my budget. When I imported the car the Revenue were starting to clamp down on non declaration of optional extras so you need to bare this in mind when you're looking at a high spec UK model. They don't inspect all cars when you're paying the VRT but if it's a BMW they're more likely to.

Petrol consumption is a big factor. The RX8 is very sore on petrol I never get over 20MPG around dublin. To put that into perspective for you - The most I have ever got from a 60 litre tank of petrol is c.250 miles! I would imagine the M3 is even worse than that although it's a savage car and in my view if you can afford to buy one you should be able to pay the fuel bill.

I only ever considered buying trade in the UK. I wouldn't consider buying trade up North as you will pay a premium and have a much smaller range to choose from compared to across the water. The garage I bought from in Birmingham offered to import the car into Ireland for me at no extra fee and gave me a 6 month parts warranty which they honoured even though I brought the car into another country.

No matter who you buy the car from you should look for mileage verification, HPI and independent mechanic report (RAC/AA).

Also I hear the SMG gear box makes the car a little less demanding to drive.

P.s. If the business press are to be believed the next few months could be the perfect window to buy in the UK as the UK CB are likely to cut interest rates further while the ECB will lag behind. This will weaken £ further against the €.

thanks, very informative.
I hadn't realised that they ever take the higher spec into account when bringing in a car. Thought the model was as far as they went.

I have been considering the RX8 as well. It's a great car, but have decided against it. (main reason is that one of my best friends is buying one next month. I'm picky that way:rolleyes:)
Supposedly the Mazda is actually worse than the M3 on fuel... it's probably the only sore point on the RX8.

That's a great deal from the garage you went to... do deliver it and all. I doubt most would do that. I did hope that a warranty could be transferred in some way to a garage here in Ireland. Haven't looked into it much.

Good call on the inspections. Do they cost much? Have you got a link or anything?

Yes, the current climate is ripe for a UK import. And with the TAX changes here, I thought it the best time to buy a sports car too. It will probably be the last chance I get to do so... pushing on ya know :eek:

thanks again for the help.

rigal

I have to say that the M3 is a far superior car and I suppose that is reflected in the price.

If you go through a decent garage they should have already had the HPI and Independent Mechanic's inspection done, if not they will help you arrange this, it should cost no more than £150. The mileage issue can be a bit trickier but as the car will be MOT'D you should be able to check this when reviewing the logs books, MOT certs etc.

If you are buying straight with no p/ex you should be able to get a decent discount. Also be sure an discuss payment terms with them before you arrive in the UK. I paid by £ bank draft done through my Irish bank and the garage were a bit paranoid when I produced it to say the least (they'd never heard of AIB). I had to call my Bank Manager and get him to talk to the salesman to verfiy things.

Best of luck!

jimbling

rigal wrote: »

I have to say that the M3 is a far superior car and I suppose that is reflected in the price.

If you go through a decent garage they should have already had the HPI and Independent Mechanic's inspection done, if not they will help you arrange this, it should cost no more than £150. The mileage issue can be a bit trickier but as the car will be MOT'D you should be able to check this when reviewing the logs books, MOT certs etc.

If you are buying straight with no p/ex you should be able to get a decent discount. Also be sure an discuss payment terms with them before you arrive in the UK. I paid by £ bank draft done through my Irish bank and the garage were a bit paranoid when I produced it to say the least (they'd never heard of AIB). I had to call my Bank Manager and get him to talk to the salesman to verfiy things.

Best of luck!

lol, that's gas.. lucky you got hold of your bank manager.
Just a quick question on the p/ex. I really hadn't even considered it as an option, I didn't think the UK garages would bother with an Irish car. Was I wrong in this? It is a moot point anyway, I'm currently driving a 01 skoda octavia vRS with 107k miles... it ain't worth much here, never mind over there.
Also, how do I know if it is a decent garage or not?

rigal

I knew a guy who had bought from this garage chain (Inchcape Autoparc) before and had no problems. I think if they have a good level of stock and a reasonable website they should be legit.


I had a UK car to p/ex so they had no problem taking it off me. I would imagine they would be reluctant to take an ROI car.

jimbling

handy. I don't know any of the garages over there, but I presume if it is a somewhat large one it will be pretty reputable.

jimbling

TCP/IP wrote: »

http://www.mtorque.co.uk/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=1&page=1

missed this post earlier. Thanks man, great link. Loads of info.

mickdw

Surely you cannot compare an rx8 to an m3. I would have an m3 in the morning if I didnt need to use it everyday. Just doing too many miles. cant see you getting 25 mpg on any journey much less around town. Very hard to keep the suspension set up just right on irish roads im told also

TheBazman

rigal wrote: »

P.s. If the business press are to be believed the next few months could be the perfect window to buy in the UK as the UK CB are likely to cut interest rates further while the ECB will lag behind. This will weaken £ further against the €.

Dont want to go off on a tangent but while the assertion that the UK are going to cut interest rates more than Europe over the next few months is correct this may not actually weaken the £. The fact is that the market already has more aggressive cuts priced in for the UK already. The currency has already priced this. We have seen that the EUR has already strenghtened from around .69 to around .77 versus the EUR over the past 6 months

jimbling

mickdw wrote: »

Surely you cannot compare an rx8 to an m3. I would have an m3 in the morning if I didnt need to use it everyday. Just doing too many miles. cant see you getting 25 mpg on any journey much less around town. Very hard to keep the suspension set up just right on irish roads im told also

hmmm, who was comparing the rx8 to an m3?

Can someone help me on the SMG transmission please. When using the VRT Calculator, what transmission does the SMG come under? Manual/Automatic/Electronic

TCP/IP

It would come under manual

jimbling

TCP/IP wrote: »

It would come under manual

thanks. That's what I originally thought, but all the SMG cars on autotrader say they are automatic.

Just looking at this one, what do ya think. It's 01, but low mileage and 1 owner. That's always a plus. Do you normally believe these adds about old gentleman owner, never over 85mph etc.
Thing is, I kinda do. My current car had high mileage when I bought it, but I knew the woman who owned it from new was extremely timid and prob never went over the 60 mark. It was in spectacular condition, and is even now with 107k miles on it.

Cyrus

hi jim

ive just bought one up North, a 02 Carbon Black with 47000 miles, Kiwi leather and 19" wheels.

IMO colour/interior combo and 19" wheels are must haves after that its up to you, i woudnt subscribe to the belief that ones with all the extras are better looked after

Mine has been kept excellently and looks even fresher than it should for its relatively low mileage, i dont have tv/sat nav or bluetooth but im not fussed, its an m3 not a s class .

Mine is a manual, id didnt particularily want smg but its a personal thing, also if they break they are expensive to fix, the manual should be less likely to cost you money.

I looked at the 01 in dublin you posted, would he really sell for 27? big drop if so, when i looked he wanted 32,500! its a nice car, but imo a little rough around the edges and has been serviced in some odd garages too so i stayed away. Also needs a job done on the rear drives quarter panel where this paint bubbling over a poor repair.

Running costs - it is expensive to maintain but hopefully if well maintained it wont cost you extra. Insp 1/2 services will run you from 700-1000 (if nothing else needs doing), oil service 350+ (oil is expensive) (this are prices from a good independent, double it if you want a bmw s/h), driving around town sees 10-12mpg :eek:longer jounrneys can see almost 30mpg if you are cruising, expect 25 overall. Tax is €1,491 if registered before 1/7 and VRT on my 02 was €9000 exactly, remember if you go for a seemingly cheap uk 03 vrt could be another 2-3k!! on top of the 02 rate. tyres are expensive if you buy PS2s in the std fittement but there are plently of good tyres available in the csl fittement (wider) which is fine on oem 19s, id recommend Falken 452s / Eagle f1s or Vredestein Ultrac Sessanta.

Anything else i can help with just ask, i would say its not suited to daily heavy traffic, heavy clutch, diff groans at low speeds esp when cold, get it on the open road and open it up, then it all makes sense

Cyrus

jimbling wrote: »

thanks. That's what I originally thought, but all the SMG cars on autotrader say they are automatic.

Just looking at this one, what do ya think. It's 01, but low mileage and 1 owner. That's always a plus. Do you normally believe these adds about old gentleman owner, never over 85mph etc.
Thing is, I kinda do. My current car had high mileage when I bought it, but I knew the woman who owned it from new was extremely timid and prob never went over the 60 mark. It was in spectacular condition, and is even now with 107k miles on it.

yeah, id wonder was it 85mph in second gear tho

jimbling

Cyrus wrote: »

hi jim

ive just bought one up North, a 02 Carbon Black with 47000 miles, Kiwi leather and 19" wheels.

Congrats!

Cyrus wrote: »

IMO colour/interior combo and 19" wheels are must haves after that its up to you, i woudnt subscribe to the belief that ones with all the extras are better looked after

Mine has been kept excellently and looks even fresher than it should for its relatively low mileage, i dont have tv/sat nav or bluetooth but im not fussed, its an m3 not a s class .

Ya, I'm not really sure I've found the colour combo that has hit the spot yet. Most of the decent value used ones seem to all be silver/black etc.
I'm not that concerned with the extras, but the tv/sat nav would be nice.

Cyrus wrote: »

Mine is a manual, id didnt particularily want smg but its a personal thing, also if they break they are expensive to fix, the manual should be less likely to cost you money.

To be honest, I think I'd prefer a manual too.

Cyrus wrote: »

I looked at the 01 in dublin you posted, would he really sell for 27? big drop if so, when i looked he wanted 32,500! its a nice car, but imo a little rough around the edges and has been serviced in some odd garages too so i stayed away. Also needs a job done on the rear drives quarter panel where this paint bubbling over a poor repair.

Ya, that car in Dublin does look a bit rough, especially on the inside. I'm in Cork, so haven't really looked at it closely.
It's down to 29k on carzone, and he dropped that to 28k when I was on the phone to him. Seemingly he needs to sell. How long ago was it that you were looking?
Is there a problem with resale of M3s in Ireland? Just curious, they seem to be going for very high prices on carzone etc, but wonder are the been sold. If I make the leap, I will probably have it for 2 years and look to move it on.

Cyrus wrote: »

Running costs - it is expensive to maintain but hopefully if well maintained it wont cost you extra. Insp 1/2 services will run you from 700-1000 (if nothing else needs doing), oil service 350+ (oil is expensive) (this are prices from a good independent, double it if you want a bmw s/h), driving around town sees 10-12mpg :eek:longer jounrneys can see almost 30mpg if you are cruising, expect 25 overall. Tax is €1,491 if registered before 1/7 and VRT on my 02 was €9000 exactly, remember if you go for a seemingly cheap uk 03 vrt could be another 2-3k!! on top of the 02 rate. tyres are expensive if you buy PS2s in the std fittement but there are plently of good tyres available in the csl fittement (wider) which is fine on oem 19s, id recommend Falken 452s / Eagle f1s or Vredestein Ultrac Sessanta.

Jesus..... it'll be a shock to the system. So what sort of money do you have budgeted for your average year of M3 maintenance? (assuming nothing serious goes wrong - and not including fuel costs)

Cyrus wrote: »

Anything else i can help with just ask, i would say its not suited to daily heavy traffic, heavy clutch, diff groans at low speeds esp when cold, get it on the open road and open it up, then it all makes sense

I'm not in real heavy traffic that much, put I have a bit of a heavy foot :eek:
If I get 22/3mpg overall I'd be pretty happy.


Thanks for all the info cyrus. I might be back to you to ask a few more questions.

Actually, just thought of one. Did you get a warranty from the Garage up the North?

Cyrus

i looked at it maybe 3 weeks ago, i dont think theres an issue selling but people are a bit nuts with some valuations imo

the new vrt changes will steady the prices a little (for ones regd pre 30 june), mine would have cost me €10800 in vrt and 2k p/a tax if i imported it in august!!!

maintenance costs, i would budget €1,000 per year for normal servicing and oil changes (i change all oils ie engine gearbox and diff every 7000 miles in all cars) €4-600 for tyres (you will need two at least id say) and then another €1k if it needs suspension consumables changing. Thats an absolute max tho for routine, should be lower

If anything else goes wrong will just have to suck and see!!!

colour combos that are most desirable

carbon black and kiwi or cinamon and steel grey with imola red or black interior

oh and i bought a private car (which was just out of warranty so had a pre warranty expiry check) unless its a bmw warranty most s/h car dealer warranties are crap anyway

jimbling

Cyrus wrote: »

i looked at it maybe 3 weeks ago, i dont think theres an issue selling but people are a bit nuts with some valuations imo

Ah, only that long ago. When I asked for his reason of sale he said he had been made redundant and so can't afford the car anymore. This explains his drop in price. He also only recently brought the car from UK. Said it cost him €31k in total to bring it in.

Cyrus wrote: »

oh and i bought a private car (which was just out of warranty so had a pre warranty expiry check) unless its a bmw warranty most s/h car dealer warranties are crap anyway

And did you have reserves about buying private? Did you get checks done to make sure it mechanically sound and wasn't clocked etc?

Cyrus

hmmm his story when i was there (and he had been made redundant at that point) was that his dad and he were going to buy an 911 instead?

doubt it cost him 31 either, id swear i saw it for sale for £16k, youd have to assume he paid £15.5 at the most = 21k + 7300 vrt = €28-29k

he mentioned to me he lost a few quid on ones he didnt buy (currency loss/rac checks).

on my one, it has a full bmw/sh which gives comfort on the mileage and unless he has replaced the steering wheel, gear knob and interior, it hasnt done big mileage