How does one tend to EQ the master fader of a track?

dav nagle

How does one tend to EQ the master fader of a track?


For example I find when I EQ a master fader that I nearly always end up pulling the mid frequency down in the track to add smoothness? Any suggestions would be Ultra Beast!

sei046

You always do that when you start Out! Your mixes dont cut through then. They loose clarity. I make a conscious effort on keeping the mids nice and natural so my mixes are clear

studiorat

Cut a version with both. Some guys stick on a compressor and eq about half way through the mix. On a console I'd do that, mixing in the box I find I don't really use any plugins on the master except maybe a meter. If you are in doubt about an EQ or something I'd usually leave it alone.

PaulBrewer

I get a lad to do it for me - he's called a Mastering Engineer!

Knowing you use Genelecs Dav, remember the hi mids on those can be a bit 'spitty'

Maybe listen on an alternative system (which I find is a good plan anyway) to check is it the track, the monitors or you!!;)

dav nagle

''You always do that when you start Out!'' - Sei046
Shwoozle! So I taught I was good until now!!

''If you are in doubt about an EQ or something I'd usually leave it alone.'' -Studio Rat

Your no fun!!! I want to pretend I know what I am at!!


Ok so Ill leave the mids alone its just so tantalizing!!

PaulBrewer

Ah Dav, we're not at you!

The history of EQ comes from early days of the Telephone.

EQ as I'm sure you know stands for equalization. The first EQs were for 'repairing' phone signals that had degraded traveling down long distance wires.

So EQ has always a repair element to it's being.

So rather than 'repair' wouldn't it be better to not need to repair?

As a youth I just wanted to get in there and turn those knobs! - as an ole codger I know the secret is to keep away from as many of them as possible!!

sei046

Not to be smart and im sure you wont take this the wrong way but when you ask as broad a questions "How do you eq your master" (disregarding the fader comment) you imply to people that you are relatively new to it.

dav nagle

Thank-you all for the reply. Yes I am knew to topic and I am trying to get a feel for who uses EQ on a master fader and who does not. It is very interesting to here all your feedback so keep it coming please. If I don't put these questions to you guys I will never learn, and thats what I am all about 'learning', at 26 I hardly have substantial experience in this field. I am posting many questions at the moment and I know some of these questions make me look a bit amateur but it doesn't bother me because its all a learning curve. I just got to throw it out there. I am learning loads in the forum and these are questions that help me understand what EQ for example is all about so keep it coming

PaulBrewer

Dav,

Do you EQ with your Shades on or off?

Savman

PaulBrewer wrote: »

So EQ has always a repair element to it's being.

So very very true...

PaulBrewer

:eek:

Wha? me and the Sav agreeing? Next thing you know we'll be out drinkin'......

dav nagle

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Dav,

Do you EQ with your Shades on or off?

I tend to EQ when everybody around me is aware of my presence. Thats a good starting point. Then, I slip my shades over my head just so they are sitting on the top of my head, pushing my hair back so everyone can in-vision my natural beauty. At that point when everyone is in total awe I pull the mid down. The smoothness in the frequency range bounces reflections off my shades blinding everyone with a glimpse of the Messiah.

PaulBrewer

Aye, sounds like that ok.........:p

dav nagle

I never taught of EQ as a repair tool, more of a 'well thats what everyone else is doing''----Thanks

Savman has a good heart, that right Savman? We go back to the Rock school days!

PaulBrewer

I'd be a very wealthy man if I could rid myself of the 'That's what everyone else is doing, I'll do some thing else' that is in my DNA!

I may not, however, have as much fun!

Savman

We do we do, many a moon ago

Anyway EQ, yeh, chances are if you have to reach for it then all is not as it should be. Well that's in a live environment that I'd be used to and EQ is a vital tool, I'll let the studio boffins debate whether its ok to go fiddling during mix...

dav nagle

PaulBrewer wrote: »

I'd be a very wealthy man if I could rid myself of the 'That's what everyone else is doing, I'll do some thing else' that is in my DNA!

I may not, however, have as much fun!

100% agreement : We are basically a higher form of monkey!

Savman

I dunno, there's a difference methinks. Imitation is the highest form of flattery and with now that they have t'internet on compooters you can actually find world touring pros discussing their techniques on various forums. I find that these guys have done things the hard way and reached the top of their profession so if they can share 0.00001% of the shortcuts they've learned along the way then I'm all ears.

The yanks are miles ahead of everyone on this.

PaulBrewer

Savman wrote: »

I dunno, there's a difference methinks. Imitation is the highest form of flattery and with now that they have t'internet on compooters you can actually find world touring pros discussing their techniques on various forums. I find that these guys have done things the hard way and reached the top of their profession so if they can share 0.00001% of the shortcuts they've learned along the way then I'm all ears.

The yanks are miles ahead of everyone on this.

The Yanks are ahead on the recording scene too...

I used to tour with a guy David 'Milky' Milward in the 90's who now mixes Morrissey's FOH.
He reckons as PAs have become so 'technical' now his job isn't the most important. The most important lad is the one who sets up the rig and 'tunes' it..... if he does that Milky's job is a piece of pish.
He doesn't use very much EQ live but there's quite a bit of compression/gating going on.

A lot of smaller live work won't have those controlled scenarios though so EQ is more vital there - in the studio you can Rewind!

frobisher

dav nagle wrote: »

I never taught of EQ as a repair tool,

THat's what it is by nature. Although in reality it has moved very far beyond that as a tool in modern productions and engineering.

I use it alot on master tracks because I do all my own mastering. Sometimes a bump with a shelf in the low end can do wonders. Sometimes a few db+ around 8k can open things up. Depends on the mix etc. Have a play, if it sounds good then it is good.

Savman

PaulBrewer wrote: »

A lot of smaller live work won't have those controlled scenarios though so EQ is more vital there - in the studio you can Rewind!

Well one of the advantages of live is that you don't have to spend hours listening to a kick drum, it'll either be alright on the night or it won't. I'd still be in the anklebiter market and most situations I come up against is with either very small stages where the sound bounces off the lovely glass mirrors behind the bar or else larger rooms where your rig coverage barely makes it past the dancefloor. I rarely used EQ on FOH mains, but in the monitor signal it is an invaluable tool to combat the 'moreme' syndrome.

I think someone pointed out to me that it was a case of: Source/Signal issues, reach for the channel EQ. Room issues, reach for the FOH EQ. It's probably no different to studio in the sense that if it can't be fixed at source, it can't be fixed in the mix. Garbage in = garbage out applies right across the board I would imagine...

PaulBrewer

frobisher wrote: »

THat's what it is by nature. Although in reality it has moved very far beyond that as a tool in modern productions and engineering.

I use it alot on master tracks because I do all my own mastering. Sometimes a bump with a shelf in the low end can do wonders. Sometimes a few db+ around 8k can open things up. Depends on the mix etc. Have a play, if it sounds good then it is good.

That's true, though I still think, as a rule of thumb, instead of grabbing the EQ first grab the studio door and pull it and go out and move the mic!

You really should try a Mastering House, a single track isn't at all expensive and can easily add 15% to a track especially if everything isn't quite perfect.(No implication there by the way!)


The studio I use uses 3 places, 2 in Ireland and one in the UK depending on the material.

However they all do great work - if you're looking for Radio Play it could be the difference between a 'Yes' or a 'No' ......

jtsuited

dav nagle wrote: »

How does one tend to EQ the master fader of a track?


For example I find when I EQ a master fader that I nearly always end up pulling the mid frequency down in the track to add smoothness? Any suggestions would be Ultra Beast!

then you are falling into the habit of 'scooping'. stuff sounds better to our ears when it is perceived as being louder. the fletcher-munson curve theory thing (or whatever it's called) means that when you are doing this you're fooling your ears into thinking it's louder and thus glossing up what might be a bad mix.

take the eq off the master strip and get the mix sounding good without it. leave this kind of thing until mastering. Whether you do that yourself or send it to a professional is a different topic altogether.

dav nagle

jtsuited wrote: »

then you are falling into the habit of 'scooping'. stuff sounds better to our ears when it is perceived as being louder. the fletcher-munson curve theory thing (or whatever it's called) means that when you are doing this you're fooling your ears into thinking it's louder and thus glossing up what might be a bad mix.

take the eq off the master strip and get the mix sounding good without it. leave this kind of thing until mastering. Whether you do that yourself or send it to a professional is a different topic altogether.

Once again thanks for the advice I will give it a try Jsuited.