Great wee article

Eirebear

After the mass hysteria of the Rangers fans going to Barcalona, from the media in britain, spain and even reaching this forum to a certain extent...(i still laugh when i remember the comment made about Rangers fans DRINKING in Dublin Airport...shocking!)
Celtic done their best to turn it into a PR dream for them and their fans, even going as far as issuing their travelling support with bin bags in order to strengthen the "special relationship" they have with the Catalan team.

I thought id post this article from 4-4-2 which puts it nicely in perspective.

Bhoys fans benefit from Rangers' visit to Catalonia

Wednesday 05 March 2008 14:43
Every metro station in Barcelona carries several illuminated posters advertising Manchester. It’s part of an airline promotion and a fine-looking shot of the city makes it look more Lisbon than Lowry in an attempt to persuade Catalans to visit.

Barca fans wouldn’t need any such inducement to go there if their team is paired with Manchester United in Friday’s Champions League quarter-final draw.

Barcelona is just recovering from its invasion by Celtic supporters. Unlike the 21,000 Rangers travelling fans in Catalonia last November, the 12,000 who came to cheer on Celtic have received positive media coverage, despite there being little discernible difference in their behaviour.

What changed is that Celtic fans benefited from Rangers visit. The Catalan authorities were not ready for the number of Rangers supporters who constituted the largest ever following in a European away game for a British club in a non-final match. Rangers fans were short changed by authorities happy to take their money, but unwilling to provide the infrastructure their presence required.

Rangers fans were criticised for urinating in the square at Placa Catalunya. Celtic fans weren’t because scores of portable toilets had been installed.

Unsurprisingly, the numerous Irish bars in Barcelona either closed or employed heavy security for the visit of Rangers. For Celtic fans they issued commemorative t-shirts and stuck up posters of Jimmy Johnstone. A special fan zone was created for the Celtic contingent outside the city centre; Rangers fans faced lines of nervous police.

There were many ironic scenes, such as ‘dangerous’ protestant Rangers fans singing sectarian songs in those Irish bars which did stay open, while ‘friendly’ Celtic fans loudly eulogised the IRA in those same bars months later – not that the Catalans, who view noisy inebriation as weakness and not a virtue, were aware of the nuances of fan culture. Well, apart from those who unfurled a giant Irish tricolour to agitate the Rangers fans.

The sheer size of the travelling support from both clubs was impressive and far, far in excess of what Barca took to either Celtic Park or Ibrox - Barca needed only one plane to Glasgow; Rangers fans arrived on 97 flights for the return game in Catalonia.

Their range of songs was comprehensive and flags from both sets of visiting Glaswegian fans impressive. And given the sheer numbers of visiting fans, both games passed with few arrests and plenty of comic stories. Like the two Celtic fans negotiating with a Catalan tout for tickets. He cheekily asked for €200 a ticket and the alcohol fuelled pair thought about it and came back with their offer…€195.

Not since Alan Partridge bid £324,000 for a house on the market for £325,000 – and whose main selling point was “a Buck Rogers toilet” - has a vendor been so willing.

Mr Alan

interesting read.

gracehopper

Celtic fans are nicer than than rangers fans. everyone knows that!!

When was the last time you seen someone in a Celtic jersey causing a fight??

never, because they're all good god fearing people.

Eirebear

There have been two stories in the papers over here about Celtic all week.

One is about celtic officials managers and players all coming out and talking about the "conspiracy" against them from referees.

The other is Celtic managers, officials and players coming out and talking about the amazingly special relationship they have with barcalona....its sickening at times.

So it was really nice to see a balanced article for a change.

Eirebear

gracehopper wrote: »

Celtic fans are nicer than than rangers fans. everyone knows that!!

When was the last time you seen someone in a Celtic jersey causing a fight??

never, because they're all good god fearing people.

lol....:D

OhNoYouDidn't

EB, you can blame the media till the cows come home.

The simple fact is Rangers fans cause trouble in Europe and Celtic's don't. Thats why Barca welcomed Celtic fans to their city for the third time in five years as friends who will have a party while Rangers fans uriniate on national monuments, defecate in cathederals, fight amongst themselves, pass dud money and racially abuse the locals. That is a 'discernible difference' in the behaviour and the locals reacted accordingly.

Celtic fans have no history of causing problems and rarely clash with police. To claim Barcelona as a city is at fault for the Gers fans disgraceful behaviour is laughable - its a city that hosted the Olympics and numerous European finals as well as being a tourist centre, its 'infrastructure' is more than capable of holding 20,000 Rangers fans. I suppose it was Tel Aviv's fault that Rangers fans were making Nazi salutes too?

100,000 Celtic fans went to Seville with no bother.

This is not a conspiracy theory. Its a fact.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

Eirebear

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

EB, you can blame the media till the cows come home.

The simple fact is Rangers fans cause trouble in Europe and Celtic's don't. Thats why Barca welcomed Celtic fans to their city for the third time in five years as friends who will have a party while Rangers fans uriniate on national monuments, defecate in cathederals, fight amongst themselves, pass dud money and racially abuse the locals. That is a 'discernible difference' in the behaviour and the locals reacted accordingly.

Celtic fans have no history of causing problems and rarely clash with police. To claim Barcelona as a city is at fault for the Gers fans disgraceful behaviour is laughable - its a city that hosted the Olympics and numerous European finals as well as being a tourist centre, its 'infrastructure' is more than capable of holding 20,000 Rangers fans. I suppose it was Tel Aviv's fault that Rangers fans were making Nazi salutes too?

100,000 Celtic fans went to Seville with no bother.

This is not a conspiracy theory. Its a fact.

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Yawn yawn yawn.

Defecating in cathedrals now are we?
Passing off dud money...hmmm i seem to remember all the fake tickets at Blackburn and Liverpool on the way to Seville, not to mention the trouble in Vigo airport and the plane that was forced to land in wales.
The same old Celtic way Tell a lie often enough and it becomes fact.

Im not saying our support are angels, but its quite obvious that Celtic DID benifit from the scrutiny that Rangers fans came under in Barcelona.
Peter Lawell is a PR Genius when it comes to this kind of stuff.

The simple fact of the matter is, facilities were provided for Celtic fans, WELL AWAY from the city centre which were not provided for the almost twice as many Rangers fans.
Not to mention the media spotlight over there, which was a complete and utter joke.

Eirebear

Ahem, apologies for my tone in the post above, to be honest im not trying to turn this into a Rangers Celtic thing, i merely wanted to point out after the hysteria that appeared on this very board before during and after the barcelona game, all is not quite as it may seem to the more distant viewer.

OhNoYouDidn't

Eirebear wrote: »

Yawn yawn yawn.

Defecating in cathedrals now are we?
Passing off dud money...hmmm i seem to remember all the fake tickets at Blackburn and Liverpool on the way to Seville, not to mention the trouble in Vigo airport and the plane that was forced to land in wales.
The same old Celtic way Tell a lie often enough and it becomes fact.

Im not saying our support are angels, but its quite obvious that Celtic DID benifit from the scrutiny that Rangers fans came under in Barcelona.
Peter Lawell is a PR Genius when it comes to this kind of stuff.

The simple fact of the matter is, facilities were provided for Celtic fans, WELL AWAY from the city centre which were not provided for the almost twice as many Rangers fans.
Not to mention the media spotlight over there, which was a complete and utter joke.

You put this up here to get a reaction from Celtic fans, so give the yawning a rest when they take up the challenge.

When did any Celtic fan claim their support is uniformly well behaved? Held up to the Rangers fans antics, they are angels in comparison. There are no lies being told here, but for every incident involving Celtic fans there are 50 involving gers.

The 'facilities' were in Placa De Catalunia, the square that Rangers fans thrashed. If you are going to rant, get the basic facts right. You are 'blaming' Peter Lawall and 'media scrutiny' because when two sets of fans from the same town were in the same city, one set duked it out with riot cops, one lot were swapping scarves with the locals. Thats not a media creation. The proof is in the local reaction. End of.

It drives the bitter and paranoid Rangers fans scatty that the 'fenians' they look down on can go to the same town as them and self police themselves and get a warm welcome from the locals while 'de peeeople' are pariahs in Europe and are on their last UEFA warning about their song book.

You cannot win this argument.

Drummerboy2

OP just wondering where that article was published?

BaZmO*

Yawn, Yawn, Yawn indeed. Another, "Your fans are scum and ours are angels!" thread. Boring!

And why is it a "Great wee article"?
Because you agree with it?

I can see this going nowhere fast.

OhNoYouDidn't

BaZmO* wrote: »

Yawn, Yawn, Yawn indeed. Another, "Your fans are scum and ours are angels!" thread. Boring

To be fair, thats not the case.

Whats happening here is that Rangers fans are objecting to the media comparing their behaviour to Celtic's as its not fair, because the reason they had to drop turds in the holy water in the Cathederal in Barcelona and use snide €50 notes and fight amongst themselves was because the 'infrastructure' wasnt there for them.

This isn't comparing Rangers fans to Celtic fans in terms of behaviour and their justification for it after the fact, its comparing them to the rest of humanity.

Eirebear

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

You put this up here to get a reaction from Celtic fans, so give the yawning a rest when they take up the challenge.

When did any Celtic fan claim their support is uniformly well behaved? Held up to the Rangers fans antics, they are angels in comparison. There are no lies being told here, but for every incident involving Celtic fans there are 50 involving gers.

The 'facilities' were in Placa De Catalunia, the square that Rangers fans thrashed. If you are going to rant, get the basic facts right. You are 'blaming' Peter Lawall and 'media scrutiny' because when two sets of fans from the same town were in the same city, one set duked it out with riot cops, one lot were swapping scarves with the locals. Thats not a media creation. The proof is in the local reaction. End of.

It drives the bitter and paranoid Rangers fans scatty that the 'fenians' they look down on can go to the same town as them and self police themselves and get a warm welcome from the locals while 'de peeeople' are pariahs in Europe and are on their last UEFA warning about their song book.

You cannot win this argument.

One set duked it out with riot cops? If this is the case why are reported arrest and fine rates for both sets of fans very similar...especially considering there were twice as many Rangers fans as there were Celtic?

If the Rangers fans are so bitter and paranoid, then how come the only direct attacks on one set of fans are coming from you and you only? If you read the apology i typed underneath my rant i quite clearly state i wasnt trying to turn this into a were better than you think.

Bazmo: you could do with reading that apology also before going off on one eh?

Drummerboy: I got it from another forum, but as far as i know it was fourforuttwo magazine.

Eirebear

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

To be fair, thats not the case.

Whats happening here is that Rangers fans are objecting to the media comparing their behaviour to Celtic's as its not fair, because the reason they had to drop turds in the holy water in the Cathederal in Barcelona and use snide €50 notes and fight amongst themselves was because the 'infrastructure' wasnt there for them.

This isn't comparing Rangers fans to Celtic fans in terms of behaviour and their justification for it after the fact, its comparing them to the rest of humanity.

Again you carry on with your attacks and insults towards Rangers supporters in general with completely unsubstantiated stories about **** and holy water and dodgy notes...fantastic!

BaZmO*

Eirebear wrote: »

Bazmo: you could do with reading that apology also before going off on one eh?

I did read it, and I stand by what I said.

OhNoYouDidn't

Eirebear wrote: »

Again you carry on with your attacks and insults towards Rangers supporters in general with completely unsubstantiated stories about **** and holy water and dodgy notes...fantastic!

Attacks? Grow up. I care not one jot what der hun gets up to on his travels, its when Celtic (invariably) get dragged into it, and in this case, almost blamed, my interest is aroused.

YOU brought up Rangers fans behaviour. When someone else mentions it its 'attacks' and 'insults'. You cant have it both ways.

They are not unstubstantiated reports. Google is your friend. There were arrests in Barca and Stuttgart amongst the gers support for passing off these notes.

Get off your high horse. Your fans yet again disgraced their club away from home and you are blaming the town itself and the press for mentioning it.

"This has to be said about Rangers, as a Scottish Football club they are a permanent embarrassment and an occasional disgrace. This country would be a better place if Rangers did not exist."
Ian Archer

Eirebear

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Attacks? Grow up. I care not one jot what der hun gets up to on his travels, its when Celtic (invariably) get dragged into it, and in this case, almost blamed, my interest is aroused.

YOU brought up Rangers fans behaviour. When someone else mentions it its 'attacks' and 'insults'. You cant have it both ways.

They are not unstubstantiated reports. Google is your friend. There were arrests in Barca and Stuttgart amongst the gers support for passing off these notes.

Get off your high horse. Your fans yet again disgraced their club away from home and you are blaming the town itself and the press for mentioning it.

"This has to be said about Rangers, as a Scottish Football club they are a permanent embarrassment and an occasional disgrace. This country would be a better place if Rangers did not exist."
Ian Archer

I never once blamed celtic for anything? I did however say that Peter Lawell was a PR Genius and he done well for Celtic out of this.
My comments about the media reports being "sickening" where a reflection on this.

Rangers as a club have been commended for the forward steps we have taken this year by UEFA, not only on the behaviour of fans but also for welcoming each and every clubs fans who have came here (including Werder Bremen today) with fanzones and tours of the stadium.

If google is my friend, then how come i cant find one single substantiated story about rangers fans lining up to take a dump in the holy water font?

And finally, if you dont "care a jot" about what Rangers fans do on their travels...how come you seem to "google" your hours away coming up with these stories?

PauloMN

Eirebear wrote: »

Ahem, apologies for my tone in the post above, to be honest im not trying to turn this into a Rangers Celtic thing, i merely wanted to point out after the hysteria that appeared on this very board before during and after the barcelona game, all is not quite as it may seem to the more distant viewer.

Eirebear, it sounds to me like you just can't handle the fact that Celtic fans in general behaved themselves while in Barcelona. You can talk about PR stunts etc. all you want, and a one-sided media, but a lot of the Celtic fans spoke about how the local people they encountered - not the media - were seriously annoyed about how some Rangers fans left their city and how they treated their monuments.

There is an underlying attitude of "nobody likes us but we don't care" among Rangers fans, or roughly translated, "fcuk you". While there's idiots among the Celtic support as well, the general attitute of Celtic fans is a more positive one, and that's reflected in the behaviour of our fans. It's as simple as that IMO.

10000, 20000 fans.... whatever. This is what it's all about:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/c/celtic/3189853.stm

Eirebear

Paul, I KNOW that our fans are percieved as the big bad bastards, thats why i was delighted to see such an article published.
Come on you seen it here yourself when we played in Barcalona, the thread became an excuse to have a go at Rangers fans in general.

As a club Rangers have worked wonders with our fans, stopping certain songs etc etc.

Im not blaming Peter Lawell for making the most out of his opportunities...christ i wish david murray had half of his PR sense...i was merely pointing out to people who do not see it day in day out, that if you scratch the surface of things youll find that there is a lot more to the story, and i do not see anything wrong with that.

I have already apologised for my rant, and i stand by my reasons for posting this.

As for being the greatest fans in the world...that was the year of Vigo, Blackburn and Liverpool, i worked in a celtic pub at the time so knew a hell of a lot of people travelling to and from these games, dont try telling me it was all love and happiness.

BTW: Celtic fans came back from barcalona with horror stories about rangers fans.....now there is a surprise eh?! :rolleyes::p

d22ontour

Infrastructure ?

It held the olympic games not too long ago ffs.

100k Celtic fans went to Seville virtually incident free.21k Rangers fans go to Barcelona and go looking for Irish bars ? According to yore quote that is anyway.Why of all the pubs to go to in Barca, go to Irish bars ? Please indulge.Rule Britannia cráp songs probably eh ?

:rolleyes:

PauloMN

Eirebear wrote: »

thats why i was delighted to see such an article published.

Article? That piece is not an "article". If the little gag about the drunk Celtic fans buying the tickets doesn't give away the source of the piece, these gems do:

"despite there being little discernible difference in their behaviour" - oh yeah? :rolleyes:

"What changed is that Celtic fans benefited from Rangers visit" - :D:D Quite the contrary. This is the point I was making, a lot of the fans were met with suspicion and reluctance because of the way Rangers fans behaved in Barcelona. To a lot of the locals, Celtic were just another Scottish club with thousands of similar fans invading the city again. A lot of the fans found themselves having to explain the differences between the fans and how they conduct themselves in general.

shane86

Eirebear wrote: »

Rangers as a club have been commended for the forward steps we have taken this year by UEFA, not only on the behaviour of fans but also for welcoming each and every clubs fans who have came here (including Werder Bremen today) with fanzones and tours of the stadium.

Doesnt the fact that they had to be pushed by UEFA to take the mentioned foreward steps mean anything?

Dont get me wrong, Ive been to Glasgow and can honestly say the gers people were generally just as sound as the Celtic crowd (upon hearing the accent the "which team" question usually flies up). The only hassle we had was from some oul kunt who pretended she didnt know where we were looking for and some drunk fcuks outside our hotel who asked us if we had brought the semtex with us :rolleyes: But this whole thread reminds me of English press coverage of recent "trouble free" tournaments. And jesus, quit being sore about the tricolours at the Barca match. It was gas, face it. Friendly rivalry. Maybe if you all quit with the opinions/agenda in this thread the rest of Europe would forget you have a chip in the shoulder about the republic, and then wouldnt bother scouring their city looking for an Irish flag.

WC 2006: "Trouble free". Only 500 odd England fans arrested.

Euro 2004: a few riots. Termed trouble free on previous records

WC 2002: Trouble free primarily because the skangers couldnt afford to make the trip en masse.

Eirebear

PauloMN wrote: »

Article? That piece is not an "article". If the little gag about the drunk Celtic fans buying the tickets doesn't give away the source of the piece, these gems do:

"despite there being little discernible difference in their behaviour" - oh yeah? :rolleyes:

"What changed is that Celtic fans benefited from Rangers visit" - :D:D Quite the contrary. This is the point I was making, a lot of the fans were met with suspicion and reluctance because of the way Rangers fans behaved in Barcelona. To a lot of the locals, Celtic were just another Scottish club with thousands of similar fans invading the city again. A lot of the fans found themselves having to explain the differences between the fans and how they conduct themselves in general.

Oh yeah, i think the fact that the reported arrest and fines quota ( i odnt have official figures before you get pedantic) are very similar, considering the facilities available to celtic fans, the lack of riot police watching every move that the TV cameras werent picking up...are very similar may tell you that.

Shane, of course we were pushed to the limits by uefa, thats why i think the fact that we have been commended for our behaviour this season speaks volumes.
In fact, given that our more recent troubles in the last few years have all came when visiting spain may show you something also....just ask any of the fans of english teams who have been there in the recent past....(or even the celtic fans who were in the airport after the celta vigo game...)

PauloMN

Rangers fans and Celtic fans are like chalk and cheese mate, this difference becomes very apparent when the fans visit away venues in Europe.

Eirebear

PauloMN wrote: »

Rangers fans and Celtic fans are like chalk and cheese mate, this difference becomes very apparent when the fans visit away venues in Europe.

We leave a mark and you lot smell funny?:p:D

DSB

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

100,000 Celtic fans went to Seville with no bother.

This is not a conspiracy theory. Its a fact.

You were there then, monitoring every one of these 100,000 fans activities yes? If not, please don't pass things off that aren't facts off as such.

Mr.Nice Guy

Rangers fans were criticised for urinating in the square at Placa Catalunya. Celtic fans weren’t because scores of portable toilets had been installed.

Oh! So that's it! There I was thinking urinating in a square was a sign of being a disgusting yob, but in actual fact the Rangers fans who did it were simply highlighting the inadequate toilet facilities in the region!

Bless those gentlemen!

FRM

Sorry but I held back on this one but had to come forward.

I was one of the 25k in Barcelona with Rangers. The facts are as follows -

1. Barcelona was not prepared for such a turn out even though they had been warned that so many were coming over.

2. There were NO facilities at all to cope with this. No portaloo's for example and all the pubs were bursting at the seams. I didn't see them turning us away because of our so called loutish behaviour.

3. The square was the organised meeting point and was surrounded by police on all sides - not once was there any bother.

4. Why did a minority of the Barcelona supporters have to unravel and Irish flag at half time - Where in Ireland is Barcelona?

How many arrests were there when Rangers were in Barcelona?

This utter bullsh*t about Celtic being the greatest supporters in the world is a myth that the likes of Liewell has carried on.

What happened at Vigo, Blackburn, Liverpool ?

Also has anyone noticed what the spanish police has done to most visiting British teams in the last two years - Spurs, Bolton, Aberdeen ????????

And as for the poster who mentioned Ian Archer oh my pal you need to read up on what that jumped up drunk jackey background really is.

The bottom line to all of this is that it seems to be that the Celtic minded in here haven't even read an ENGLISH based report on the FACTS of Barcelona.

Anyway hope you all enjoyed the Uefa Cup matches last night - has this turned back into a mickey mouse cup since Seville???

P.S I never even lower myself to mention they seem to have handed out Seville calculators over here as well.

OhNoYouDidn't

My local is packed every weekend. I manage to avoid dropping the bags in the street though. Worst excuse ever. The fact that you just wont admit that there was some misbehaviour and are blaming everyone, the police, the media, the city of Barcelona, in fact everyone but the fans. It says a great deal about the collective immaturity of your fanbase.

I'm a bit puzzled as to what Eirebear thought this excercise would achieve?

Eirebear

As ive posted over and over again ONYD, i posted this article in order to show another side of the media hysteria surrounding Rangers fans.
There was no attack on Celtic fans by me...rather praise for the PR abilities of Peter Lawell.

But just you carry on mate, im sure you have a wealth of stories about where youve heard Rangers fans have urinated/defecated......possibly a nuns hat?

OhNoYouDidn't

Eirebear wrote: »

As ive posted over and over again ONYD, i posted this article in order to show another side of the media hysteria surrounding Rangers fans.
There was no attack on Celtic fans by me...rather praise for the PR abilities of Peter Lawell.

Who said you attacked Celtic fans?

You are reading what you want to read because you didn't get the reaction you wanted. You are refusing to take any responsibility for the appaling antics of sections of your support and produced a ludicrious article to back up some contrived media conspiracy to report the facts.

It is a very high risk strategy comparing the behaviour of masses of Gers on tour to Celts, and it backfired on you here.

OhNoYouDidn't

DSB wrote: »

You were there then, monitoring every one of these 100,000 fans activities yes? If not, please don't pass things off that aren't facts off as such.

Zero arrests, a commendation from the Mayor of Seville and an award from UEFA is good enough for me.

DSB

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Zero arrests, a commendation from the Mayor of Seville and an award from UEFA is good enough for me.

What was the award from UEFA? Was it for that trip alone or in general?

Mr Alan

was there really ZERO arrests?

DSB

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/3042885.stm

Someone needs to stop spouting ****.

Eirebear

DSB wrote: »

What was the award from UEFA? Was it for that trip alone or in general?

The Celtic fans recieved a specially commisioned "Fans of the year" award for their exploits in the Uefa cup that year.
The cynic in me suggests that they conveniantly forgot about fake ticket scandals in Liverpool and Blackburn, along with trouble in the airport involving spanish police in the airport after the Vigo game, and a plane having to be landed in wales to throw Celtic fans off after the same game.

They did however do themselves proud in Seville, no matter how many of the ACTUALLY turned up. (around 80,000)

Mr Alan wrote: »

was there really ZERO arrests?

I think there was one...a celtic fan who stabbed his mate with a fork or something stupid like that.
I wont slag Celtic fans for their exploits in Seville, i will however wish they would give it up...it was 5 years ago.


ONYD, If I havnt been attacking Celtic fans, how come just about every post you have made has ben ultra defensive of celtic fans and extremely vicious towards gers fans?

OhNoYouDidn't

Eirebear wrote: »

The Celtic fans recieved a specially commisioned "Fans of the year" award for their exploits in the Uefa cup that year.
The cynic in me suggests that they conveniantly forgot about fake ticket scandals in Liverpool and Blackburn, along with trouble in the airport involving spanish police in the airport after the Vigo game, and a plane having to be landed in wales to throw Celtic fans off after the same game.

Scandals? Buying tickets from touts that turned out to be fake?

The cops waded in in Vigo airport when they saw Basque flags.

A Celtic fan had a smoke on a plane and the alaram caused the plane to be diverted. Silly boy, but hardly Nazi salutes in Israel, is it?

The difference is we arent denying these incidents happened or blaming others.

Eirebear wrote: »

They did however do themselves proud in Seville, no matter how many of the ACTUALLY turned up. (around 80,000)

I think there was one...a celtic fan who stabbed his mate with a fork or something stupid like that.
I wont slag Celtic fans for their exploits in Seville, i will however wish they would give it up...it was 5 years ago.

If you are going to claim that Barcelona was 'incapable' of coping with 20,000 Rangers fans, we are going to point out that Seville, a smaller city with no history of major events like the Olympics or Expo's was more than capable of hosting 100k fans without any complaints.

Eirebear wrote: »

ONYD, If I havnt been attacking Celtic fans, how come just about every post you have made has ben ultra defensive of celtic fans and extremely vicious towards gers fans?

If you think I am being vicious you need to seriously get a life. Again, no-one has said you are 'attacking' Celtic fans, yet you are still defending yourself against the charge. And you are reading 'ultra- defensive' comments that must be hidden to the rest of us, or just decided that that is what you wanted to 'prove' here regardless of what was actually said.

I might suggest you let this one go, as whatever point you wanted to make about the media has been lost in your infantile efforts to defend the indefensible amongst your support.

Eirebear

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Scandals? Buying tickets from touts that turned out to be fake?

The cops waded in in Vigo airport when they saw Basque flags.

A Celtic fan had a smoke on a plane and the alaram caused the plane to be diverted. Silly boy, but hardly Nazi salutes in Israel, is it?

The difference is we arent denying these incidents happened or blaming others. .

Buying tickets KNOWN to be fake, as said before a worked in a celtic supporters pub that year and was shown these tickets long before anyone went anywhere near blackburn and liverpool.

Of course, THIS time it was the policemans fault...one rule for you, one rule for us eh?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/2574771.stm
Just the facts eh?

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

If you are going to claim that Barcelona was 'incapable' of coping with 20,000 Rangers fans, we are going to point out that Seville, a smaller city with no history of major events like the Olympics or Expo's was more than capable of hosting 100k fans without any complaints. .

I never said Barcalona was "Incapable" i suggested however that they never tried If you know that 20,000 people are coming to your city and that they will be congregating in one place, you put facilities in place, Portaloos etc etc.
You cant honestly compare this to something like a uefa cup final or the olympics where you have to put these facilities in place before being allowed to hold the event, its called organisation and planning.

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

If you think I am being vicious you need to seriously get a life. Again, no-one has said you are 'attacking' Celtic fans, yet you are still defending yourself against the charge. And you are reading 'ultra- defensive' comments that must be hidden to the rest of us, or just decided that that is what you wanted to 'prove' here regardless of what was actually said.

I might suggest you let this one go, as whatever point you wanted to make about the media has been lost in your infantile efforts to defend the indefensible amongst your support.

I need to get a life? Infantile? Nice.

Seems to me that you took offence to a Rangers supporter having anysort of point of view at all, and have still not substantiated your story of Rangers fans having a crap in a holy water font....but im sure big gerry down the pub assures you its true eh?

I have not once tried to say that we are all angels amongst the Rangers support....just trying to let people know that we are not all big horrible bastards either...maybe you should check that idea out eh?

OhNoYouDidn't

Eirebear wrote: »

Buying tickets KNOWN to be fake, as said before a worked in a celtic supporters pub that year and was shown these tickets long before anyone went anywhere near blackburn and liverpool.

Of course, THIS time it was the policemans fault...one rule for you, one rule for us eh?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/2574771.stm
Just the facts eh?

The difference is I'm not blaming the airline for the incident. The fans should not have behaved like they did and reality is you cant mess about on airplanes at the moment, so no sympathy. no-one has ever said otherwise. Ditto buying fake tickets.

The Spanish Cops did over-react in Vigo, but it was naive to think that there would be no reaction to that flag.

Now compare the above to your defence of nazi salutes in Tel Aviv.....

Eirebear wrote: »

I never said Barcalona was "Incapable" i suggested however that they never tried If you know that 20,000 people are coming to your city and that they will be congregating in one place, you put facilities in place, Portaloos etc etc.
You cant honestly compare this to something like a uefa cup final or the olympics where you have to put these facilities in place before being allowed to hold the event, its called organisation and planning.

So its OK to slash on a monument to their Civil War dead and take dumps in the street because there were no portaloos? Nice. Does this apply all the time, or just when overseas?

Its a novel approach, I'll give you that. Infantile, but novel.

Eirebear wrote: »

I need to get a life? Infantile? Nice.

Seems to me that you took offence to a Rangers supporter having anysort of point of view at all, and have still not substantiated your story of Rangers fans having a crap in a holy water font....but im sure big gerry down the pub assures you its true eh?

I have not once tried to say that we are all angels amongst the Rangers support....just trying to let people know that we are not all big horrible bastards either...maybe you should check that idea out eh?

I have no objection to Rangers fans having a point of view. Unfortunatly the 'point of view' was a poor article riddled with contradictions. But I do object to you renaming Nazi salutes and claiming them to be harmless and blaming a media conspiracy to invent stories that your fans misbehaved and when thats blown out of the water, blame the people of Barcelona itself.

I used to talk like you to my father when I was 15. If you cant tell why your club are pariahs in Europe and Celtic arent, start with your defensive attitude.

Eirebear

No you deny them or blame anyon eelse...except the police who overreacted and the airplane stewards who overreacted to someone having a cigarette and of course the touts who sold fake tickets.

You are the only person here that has mentioned Nazi Salutes, stangely enough it is something you have used every time to deflect the argument every time.

I have NEVER defended the salutes on this board in any way... i have however tried to explain to people what the morons who do them THINK they are doing....there is a major difference there.

You seem to revel in the idea that Rangers fans are to a person BNP Voting, Skinhead Nazis with no respect for anyone or anything outwith their own.

Are you honestly trying to say that if 20,000 people where expected to turn up in Glasgow, Dublin, even bigger cities like London or Barcalona, that without some sort of planning or organisation, that there wouldnt be a hell of a mess afterwards?
Im sure you have attended many major events in your time, concerts football trips etc....have you ever been to one without these facilities in place?
Even when you do have these facilities...you always get the people who dont make use of them, and go and piss behind a tree somehwere.

Ive read all the reports of Rangers fans peeing in the street, there is nothing else you can tell me about it that will convince me anything other than drunk people couldnt stand in a 20 minute queue in order to have a piss.
Take a walk through any city centre tonight, you will see the exact same thing happening, thats not to excuse it, only to put it into perspective...something you seem to lack as soon as Rangers are mentioned.

And now you have twice dismissed my point of views as being infantile, infact comparing me to a 15 year old....Thanks for that.

OhNoYouDidn't

EB,

There is a fundamental difference between nipping behind a tree and slashing on a monument in the centre of a square. You are defending the indefensible and then claiming opression when people call you on it. Your point of view, that its the fault of the town that their monuments and churches were abused like this, is infantile.

Even the Gah monsters can congregate in numbers around Dublin during the summer and use toilet facilities properly. And they are barely civilised.

Mr.Nice Guy

I'm learning a lot about Rangers fans from this thread. Fascinating stuff. If only they had less potty mouths and more potty training.

Eirebear

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

EB,

There is a fundamental difference between nipping behind a tree and slashing on a monument in the centre of a square. You are defending the indefensible and then claiming opression when people call you on it. Your point of view, that its the fault of the town that their monuments and churches were abused like this, is infantile.

Even the Gah monsters can congregate in numbers around Dublin during the summer and use toilet facilities properly. And they are barely civilised.

ONYD, we can debate where and when Rangers fans peed all day, i dont know the city of barcalona, but id suggest when being fenced in by riot police with their fingers twitching on their truncheons, might not be the best time to go running around looking for a tree.
If it was down to me, i wouldnt go pissing on a monument either, but as ive stated before walk through any city tonight and youll find people coming out of pubs and pissing in the street, im not saying this to use it as an excuse, just trying to put it once more into perspective.

I will however take offence when you splurt out completely unprovable stories that youve either picked up in a pub, or on a celtic forum somewhere about Rangers fans defecating in cathedrals and holy water fonts.

I will also take offence when ypou suggest, as you did in an earlier thread that rangers fans in general cannot be compared with the rest of humanity.

This isn't comparing Rangers fans to Celtic fans in terms of behaviour and their justification for it after the fact, its comparing them to the rest of humanity.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I'm learning a lot about Rangers fans from this thread. Fascinating stuff. If only they had less potty mouths and more potty training.

Pray tell Mr Nice Guy what have you learned of us? Your lame attempt at getting me riled does not work...as i see know "potty mouth" happening in this thread?

Mr.Nice Guy

Eirebear wrote: »

Pray tell Mr Nice Guy what have you learned of us? Your lame attempt at getting me riled does not work...as i see know "potty mouth" happening in this thread?

Not trying to rile you up but I think your attempt to defend blatant thuggish behaviour is pretty desperate altogether.

EireBear wrote:

Ive read all the reports of Rangers fans peeing in the street, there is nothing else you can tell me about it that will convince me anything other than drunk people couldnt stand in a 20 minute queue in order to have a piss.

A toddler knows how to hold in the urge to go the toilet yet you're actually trying to suggest that grown men can't do that?

EireBear wrote:

as ive stated before walk through any city tonight and youll find people coming out of pubs and pissing in the street

LOL. What city are you living in? Flushing Meadows?

Eirebear

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Not trying to rile you up but I think your attempt to defend blatant thuggish behaviour is pretty desperate altogether.

Not entirely defending, more trying to give a little more idea as to the wheres and whys....rather than resorting to scandalous reports about ****ting in a cathedral.
I Dont think its desperate in any way, i had friends over their and i dont like them being labelled as thugs.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

LOL. What city are you living in? Flushing Meadows?

Hilarious! :rolleyes:

DSB

There is definitely a horrible anti-Rangers bias in this thread. Obviously, their fans are no angels, some are far from it, but pretty much every club in the world (except maybe UCD) has this element so no1 should play the angel like. Eirebear didn't seem to be trying to defend Rangers fans that had done bad things at all, more trying to portray that they're no worse than the fans of many clubs.

OhNoYouDidn't

DSB wrote: »

There is definitely a horrible anti-Rangers bias in this thread. Obviously, their fans are no angels, some are far from it, but pretty much every club in the world (except maybe UCD) has this element so no1 should play the angel like. Eirebear didn't seem to be trying to defend Rangers fans that had done bad things at all, more trying to portray that they're no worse than the fans of many clubs.

The thread has an anti-Rangers bias because its about an article attempting to defend their behaviour. If it was Bohs fans the thread may be anti-bozo etc. Its not the behaviour per say I object to, its the failure of Rangers as a group to accept legitimate media criticism of sections of their supports consistant bad behaviour ("it wuz chelsea fans") and the ludicrious attempts to defend hooliganism, drunken loutism as well as sectarian and racist behaviour.

Go onto Follow Follow. Its never them, its always some form of Popish conspiracy to denegrate them, and by extention Britain. Its hilarious at one level, but very sinister at another, but I can challenge it here.

DSB, the main Catalan daily ran an editorial in the aftermath of Rangers visit praising Celtic fans for having to put up with Rangers all the time they were that bad. Also, do many clubs fans make Nazi salutes in Israel?

Eirebear

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

The thread has an anti-Rangers bias because its about an article attempting to defend their behaviour. If it was Bohs fans the thread may be anti-bozo etc. Its not the behaviour per say I object to, its the failure of Rangers as a group to accept legitimate media criticism of sections of their supports consistant bad behaviour ("it wuz chelsea fans") and the ludicrious attempts to defend hooliganism, drunken loutism as well as sectarian and racist behaviour.

Go onto Follow Follow. Its never them, its always some form of Popish conspiracy to denegrate them, and by extention Britain. Its hilarious at one level, but very sinister at another, but I can challenge it here.

DSB, the main Catalan daily ran an editorial in the aftermath of Rangers visit praising Celtic fans for having to put up with Rangers all the time they were that bad. Also, do many clubs fans make Nazi salutes in Israel?

Here we go again with the Nazi salutes....i think youll find that the coverage of this gesture came to the fore BEFORE the games in Israel leading to much discussion as to what this gesture meant to people and consequently the majorty of rangers supporters rounding on people who decided it was a good thing to do.
How did this come to the fore before Rangers match in Israel...well all of a sudden people decided that they would email Israeli Newspapers, fansites, clubs and uefa themselves anonymously with pictures of a few rangers fans making this gesture. Anyone neutral can read what they want into what these caring citizens of the world were trying to achieve
I have discussed this to death with you and other people on this board, and i do not care to go down that route again

Your getting increasingly desperate if you want to start using the internet hard men of Follow Follow (which BTW is not a forum i use personally).
But if you want to go down that route, maybe i should start quoting from the "Generic Hun Thread" on the Kerrydale Street forum?

As for conspiracy theories...your havin a laugh right?

Strachan this week: "There is a day of national celebration whenever anyone beats us, its not like that for any other team"
Boruc this week "It is one rule for us, and another for every other team. I sometimes feel that people are truly out to get us"

This will be lapped up by your fans and used in the next edition of the popular celtic fans book called "Maybe thats why were paranoid"

Christ many of you believe that Rangers wear black and red socks to symbolise "being up to our knees in fenian blood"
Never mind the fact that Rangers first strip was Black and Red hoops, they are the colours of Govan Borough, and of course Rangers were founded long before the glasgow gang known as the "Billy Boys" were even born!

And thats before i start on Referees getting their windows smashed in, having to move house due to the abuse they were taking.
Or Hugh Dallas' gashed head after being hit by a coin (one of MANY) which were aimed at him during a 3-0 defeat at parkhead.
Fernando Ricksen being hit with a lighter and other objects at another game since then?

If your gonna start about conspiracies.....

DSB

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

The thread has an anti-Rangers bias because its about an article attempting to defend their behaviour. If it was Bohs fans the thread may be anti-bozo etc. Its not the behaviour per say I object to, its the failure of Rangers as a group to accept legitimate media criticism of sections of their supports consistant bad behaviour ("it wuz chelsea fans") and the ludicrious attempts to defend hooliganism, drunken loutism as well as sectarian and racist behaviour.

Go onto Follow Follow. Its never them, its always some form of Popish conspiracy to denegrate them, and by extention Britain. Its hilarious at one level, but very sinister at another, but I can challenge it here.

DSB, the main Catalan daily ran an editorial in the aftermath of Rangers visit praising Celtic fans for having to put up with Rangers all the time they were that bad. Also, do many clubs fans make Nazi salutes in Israel?

They probably don't and I think doing that is ridiculously scummy. But even a club I support Aston Villa had fans singing horrible chants about a player who had possibly ended his career the week previous. Are Villa fans much worse than the other clubs out there? No. Almost all clubs have a scumbag element, Celtic no less than the rest. From what I gathered from the article, it wasn't trying to play Rangers fans off as innocent or angels, just pointing out that Celtic's reputation as jolly Irishmen probably serves them well when on their travels. Personally I don't think Celtic fans are any better or worse than others. There are a ridiculous amount of troublemakers from Ireland walking around in Celtic jerseys.

PauloMN

Eirebear wrote: »

So it was really nice to see a balanced article for a change.

Eirebear, I think that comment - among other things - is the reason for the fairly fierce reaction to your postings.

That is most certainly not a balanced article. It suggest - among other things - that Celtic fans benefited from the visiting Rangers fans before them. That suggestion is frankly laughable considering the way Rangers fans behaved in Barcelona.

As for riot police, I dunno, but I guess when they see large groups of fans waving union jacks they get nervous and want to prevent anything kicking off. Whether that's right or wrong is a different debate - but you can't really blame local police forces in European cities for assocating the combination of football fans and union jacks with trouble. England fans have done plenty of "good work" across Europe on your behalf on that score. Now I know lots of Rangers fans hate England (go figure), but waving union jacks, singing GSTQ and pissing everywhere, you have to admit that foreign police forces probably see you as one and the same with regard to England fans.