Am I being callous ?

fatboypee

Is this out of order ? I find it INCREDIBLE that the WHOLE N7 can be closed since last night (around 7pm) for a fatal car crash. a WHOLE 14 hours and still no sign of opening.

Caused absolute feckin chaos...

IS it me ? Am I wrong in finding this amazingly annoying ?

Fine, if it is.. just find it gobsmacking...

FBP

L1011

The "WHOLE" N7 is closed? How, precisely, did I drive to work then?

fatboypee

MYOB wrote: »

The "WHOLE" N7 is closed? How, precisely, did I drive to work then?

Ok mister semantic. Both lanes of the N7 between limerick and Nenagh, closed since 7.pm last night.
OK ?

delly

Regardless of the exact cirumstances, I do find your atitude a bit shity tbh. I know if it was my relative or friend that was killed i'd like to know what exactly happend, rather than a Garda explaining that poor FatBoyPee was going to be late for work so we couldn't investigate the death properly as we had to reopen the road.

Mena

It may be a bit overkill to shutdown the entire road, but then I'm sure they had a valid reason to do so, in aid of the investigation.

I'm not (yet) cynical enough to believe they shut down a major artery for ****z n giggles.

cabrwab

While i do agree with delly, id want to know how it happened yeah for sure. that is why most serious crashes now require the road to be closed for a full investigation. Find who was at fault etc, but then fatboy is correct too does it really take over 14hours.
Probably like everything in this country there is only one team of technicians to investigate all the fatal road crashes! and they also have to wait for natural light no such things as spot lights!!

14 hours csi miami would have solved the case and somebody would be in prison already!!!:D

prospect

It is certainly annoying, but also necessary.

It would be for the greater good if they could speed up these investigations, but it is important that they gather all evidence and document everything so they can prosecute if necessary.

As another poster said, if it was someone you loved, and the person responsible for killing them could not be brought to justice because of lack of evidence, I'd imagine you'd be even more peeved than you are now.


Also, alot of those 14 hours were at night time, so maybe they were waiting for daylight to finish their investigation.

fatboypee

prospect wrote: »

It is certainly annoying, but also necessary.

It would be for the greater good if they could speed up these investigations, but it is important that they gather all evidence and document everything so they can prosecute if necessary.

As another poster said, if it was someone you loved, and the person responsible for killing them could not be brought to justice because of lack of evidence, I'd imagine you'd be even more peeved than you are now.


Also, alot of those 14 hours were at night time, so maybe they were waiting for daylight to finish their investigation.

I know, maybe I'm being callous, I'm not saying 'don't close the road', I'm simply amazed at the length of time..

maidhc

prospect wrote: »

Also, alot of those 14 hours were at night time, so maybe they were waiting for daylight to finish their investigation.

If they needed daylight, then I think that is a fair reason. Otherwise no, there is no justification for closing the road for 14 hours.

Someone died, and that is awful, but it cannot be used as an excuse by particular individuals to sit on their hands.

SuperGrover

Mena wrote: »

It may be a bit overkill to shutdown the entire road, but then I'm sure they had a valid reason to do so, in aid of the investigation.

I'm not (yet) cynical enough to believe they shut down a major artery for ****z n giggles.

What letters are the four asterisks replacing here? I know it's off topic but it's bugging me. Can't figure it out.

delly

"shitz"

SuperGrover

Ah. OK, thanks.

GB15

I'm not 100% on this but aren't these detailed investigations one of Gay Byrnes strategies? I don't remember roads being closed for accidents for such a long time before but in the last year I've come across it a few times.

Not a bad thing in my opinion. At least in a few years we'll have detailed Irish statistics as opposed to speculating over conflicting reports about speed, alcohol etc from abroad.

UrbanFox

Technically, is the accident locus not a crime scene in which case it would need to be preserved until investigation at the site is complete ?

Once the scene is opened up again to the public anything subsequently found there might be evidentially contaminated or inadmissable so it all has to be hoovered up technically and got right the first time.

A second good reason to close off is to minimise the risks from rubber neckers who are more likely to cause another accident

crosstownk

As has been stated - if somebody died as result of the accident, then another's commuting inconvenience pales into insignificance on a relative scale.

Victor

UrbanFox wrote: »

Technically, is the accident locus not a crime scene in which case it would need to be preserved until investigation at the site is complete ?

Yes, collision seats are treated as crime scenes.

maidhc

crosstownk wrote: »

As has been stated - if somebody died as result of the accident, then another's commuting inconvenience pales into insignificance on a relative scale.

I don't agree to be honest. You can only justify inconveniencing so many people and costing unconnected people so much money to analyse whether or not a successful prosecution can be brought against the driver of a vehicle.

As far as the victim is concerned the game is over.

chris85

maidhc wrote: »

I don't agree to be honest. You can only justify inconveniencing so many people and costing unconnected people so much money to analyse whether or not a successful prosecution can be brought against the driver of a vehicle.

As far as the victim is concerned the game is over.

Isnt that what we need.

So if someone got shot it would be ok to close the crime scene, yes of course. So why any difference with an accident which could be someones fault. It needs to be checked to see what happens.

saying its game over for the victim is just nasty, it should be found out what happened so the victim (hopefully alive) and their family know.

javaboy

maidhc wrote: »

I don't agree to be honest. You can only justify inconveniencing so many people and costing unconnected people so much money to analyse whether or not a successful prosecution can be brought against the driver of a vehicle.

As far as the victim is concerned the game is over.

Dear Mrs. Murphy,

We are very sorry about your recent loss. Unfortunately we cannot bring the culprit to justice as people have to get to work and cannot be inconvenienced. The skid marks we might have been able to investigate have been driven over several thousand times now and would never stand up in court. Anyway, it doesn't matter much Mrs. Murphy since the game is over for your son anyway!

Yours callously,
Chief Supernintendo Maidhc


:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Oilrig

I think its good that the Gardai are finally taking fatal or serious accidents seriously and carrying out a proper investigation etc.

But. They now need to be efficient and minimise road closures.

I suspect that the focus was initially on a thorough forensic examination of the scene rather than time. This is understandable given the lack of experience of dealing with such incidents. I also suspect that as they progress and gain experience in investigating fatal accidents they'll get quicker at it.

ninty9er

with that ^^^ in mind I would hope they're noting which passengers in fatal crashes were and weren't wearing seatbelts. Seems to go completely unnoted and there are very few hard facts on how many people who died on Irish roads over the last 5 years died because they were too stupid to put on a seatbelt!!

maidhc

javaboy wrote: »

Anyway, it doesn't matter much Mrs. Murphy since the game is over for your son anyway!

I'm not saying there should be no investigations, but they have to be proportionate, the fact no ones life can be saved has a huge bearing on what is proportionate. Investigating whether there may be a crime is not as valid a reason to inconvenicence people/cost the state money as investigating a crime.

I don't know, but i'd prefer the odd dangerous driver get the hop of the ball rather than the road to work being closed every second day!

javaboy

maidhc wrote: »

I'm not saying there should be no investigations, but they have to be proportionate, the fact no ones life can be saved has a huge bearing on what is proportionate. Investigating whether there may be a crime is not as valid a reason to inconvenicence people/cost the state money as investigating a crime.

I don't know, but i'd prefer the odd dangerous driver get the hop of the ball rather than the road to work being closed every second day!

There's a huge big hole in your logic there. You're saying that no ones life can be saved by the investigation and then you say "i'd prefer the odd dangerous driver get the hop of the ball". What if that dangerous driver who you gave the hop of the ball to goes out and gets someone else killed?

Gregor Samsa

maidhc wrote: »

I don't know, but i'd prefer the odd dangerous driver get the hop of the ball rather than the road to work being closed every second day!

Of course, by "every second day" you really mean once or twice a year :rolleyes:

maidhc

maidhc wrote: »

If they needed daylight, then I think that is a fair reason. Otherwise no, there is no justification for closing the road for 14 hours.

As I said.^^ Yes, of course accidents should be investigated, but it isn't a carte blanche to cause mass disruption in the effort of discovering whether someone may (or may not) be guilty of dangerous driving.

javaboy

maidhc wrote: »

As I said.^^ Yes, of course accidents should be investigated, but it isn't a carte blanche to cause mass disruption in the effort of discovering whether someone may (or may not) be guilty of dangerous driving.

Accidents should be investigated up until it inconveniences you basically yeah? I hate bringing this hoary old chestnut into a debate but: how would you feel if it was someone close to you who died and the person responsible got the hop of the ball?

Steve

Pure speculation but maybe there's limited availability of the specialists needed to properly investigate the scene. I don't thing the Guards have an over supply of CSI units like you see on the telly.

+1 to those who said if it was your loved one / relative then you'd expect it to be investigated properly (at the expense of a few people being late for work).