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Thatcher taken to hospital...

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    #32
    TOMASJ
    Registered Users Posts: 656 ✭✭✭TOMASJ


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    IIRC, she was as hard on loyalists as she was republicans, but that would no doubt be forgotten this side of the irish sea.
    That is strictly not true the UDA, which 'is' the biggest loyalists origination in the North and we still have ( no decommissioning no ceasefire and are continuing to terrorise nationalist) they were for all of Thatchers term, allowed to remain a 'LEGAL' origination, and allowed to carry out at will with the assistance of Her majesties finest, murders, North and South of Ireland


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    #33
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    I thought Bloody Sunday was before thatcher's time?
    I was talking about the reason why the IRA came into being, it was separate from my comments on Thatcher.
    It's very convenient for Irish people to be all anti republican now.


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    #34
    Erin Go Brath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭Erin Go Brath


    Fratton Fred wrote: »

    Did she have that bad an attitude towards ireland,

    She let 10 of Irelands sons starve to death in 1981, without giving into a few of their meagre POW status requests. Hence shes not very popular in this country, and particularly despised by Republicans. Theres a bunch of "I still hate Thatcher" as gaeilge t-shirts floating around. Shes not very popular with a lot of the working class in the UK aswell i believe.

    As a pre-emptive strike against the usual W.Brits who'll probably say, well they got what they deserved etc. I should point out while on hunger strike, Bobby Sands got elected in Fermanagh/South Tyrone with over 30,000 votes. So the public were very much in solidarity with himself and the hunger strikers.


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    #35
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Erin Go Brath wrote: »
    She let 10 of Irelands sons starve to death in 1981, without giving into a few of their meagre POW status requests. Hence shes not very popular in this country, and particularly despised by Republicans. Theres a bunch of "I still hate Thatcher" as gaeilge t-shirts floating around. Shes not very popular with a lot of the working class in the UK aswell i believe.

    As a pre-emptive strike against the usual W.Brits who'll probably say, well they got what they deserved etc. I should point out while on hunger strike, Bobby Sands got elected in Fermanagh/South Tyrone with over 30,000 votes. So the public were very much in solidarity with himself and the hunger strikers.

    she is still very unpopular with a lot of the working class in Britain, that is correct, for all the reasons Gurramok listed above. The same reason's she is still on my list od least liked people. A lot of the people she is unpopular with are now driving BMW's though, thanks to their shares paying rich dividends.

    With regards Ireland, I don't think Thatcher reacted differently to the way any other PM would have reacted. A government should not be held to ransom by people threatening suicide, but we will never agree to that one.


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    #36
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Much of Thatchers' legacy as Fred has commented is what she did in Britain and the very unpleasant 80s there. But she was in the right place to help kick-start the initial discussions of what led to the Belfast Agreement and she'll get credit in history books for that.


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    #37
    andrewh5
    Registered Users Posts: 588 ✭✭✭andrewh5


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    she is still very unpopular with a lot of the working class in Britain, that is correct, for all the reasons Gurramok listed above. The same reason's she is still on my list od least liked people. A lot of the people she is unpopular with are now driving BMW's though, thanks to their shares paying rich dividends.

    With regards Ireland, I don't think Thatcher reacted differently to the way any other PM would have reacted. A government should not be held to ransom by people threatening suicide, but we will never agree to that one.

    You are aware I take it that the Brit govt actually gave them 99% of their demands within weeks of the hunger strikes ending? She could have negotiated with them and saved 10 lives but chose instead to sit back. My guess is that she wouldn't have a strong enough level of courage to starve herself to death over her beliefs.


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    #38
    andrewh5
    Registered Users Posts: 588 ✭✭✭andrewh5


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Much of Thatchers' legacy as Fred has commented is what she did in Britain and the very unpleasant 80s there. But she was in the right place to help kick-start the initial discussions of what led to the Belfast Agreement and she'll get credit in history books for that.

    Complete rubbish! It was John Major who started it and it was completed by Tony Blair with huge help from Mo Mowlam. If it had been down to Thatcher there would still be conflict now.


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    #39
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    andrewh5 wrote: »
    You are aware I take it that the Brit govt actually gave them 99% of their demands within weeks of the hunger strikes ending? She could have negotiated with them and saved 10 lives but chose instead to sit back. My guess is that she wouldn't have a strong enough level of courage to starve herself to death over her beliefs.

    Yes, I am aware of that.

    They chose to kill themselves.


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    #40
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    andrewh5 wrote: »
    Complete rubbish! It was John Major who started it and it was completed by Tony Blair with huge help from Mo Mowlam. If it had been down to Thatcher there would still be conflict now.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo_Irish_Agreement


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    #41
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    Like her or loathe her Thatcher made a big difference during her tenure, some of it good and some bad. Her privatization policies were controversial at the time and Ireland is perhaps going down the same route. Water, gas, telecoms, as I stated in an earlier post were sold off( you can only sell the family silver once). The prices of these utilities escalated rapidly and are still high. At the time it was mooted that prices would be lower and more competitive. For big business yes, but not the ordinary consumer. Most of the utilities are now owned by multi national companies. It was all about money IMO, and Mrs.Thatcher was not interested in the fabric of community welfare of the population at large. Her whole style was almost dictatorial, harking back to the class ruling elite era.


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    #42
    bartholomewbinn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 138 ✭✭bartholomewbinn


    Well, she definitely holds one rather dubious record. She is the only British prime minister to have a son who is a major international criminal.


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    #43
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    bartholomewbinn wrote: »
    Well, she definitely holds one rather dubious record. She is the only British prime minister to have a son who is a major international criminal.

    She appeared to help him after his African exploits, to get him out of the mess leaving his partners to face the music. Even the US allowed him back in after this. She supported Pinochet, so anything her own son may have done in his dealings would be seen as mild IMO.


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    #44
    Tazz T
    Registered Users Posts: 3,202 ✭✭✭Tazz T


    bartholomewbinn wrote: »
    Well, she definitely holds one rather dubious record. She is the only British prime minister to have a son who is a major international criminal.

    ...or to let an one of her own duly elected MPs die on hunger strike.


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    #45
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Tazz T wrote: »
    ...or to let an one of her own duly elected MPs die on hunger strike.

    I somehow don't think she would call Bobby Sands "One of her own".

    What else should she have done, pander to a member of a terrorist organisation or keep the respect of the majority of British voters?


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    #46
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Yeah, I agree with you on that, Fred. But it's the Falklands (one of her key aims was to save its people from a brutal South American dictator... hmmm...), the Belgrano incident, the miners, the greed, the poll tax, "Out! Out! Out!", Pinochet, that make me hate that woman. I agree, good leaders can't always do the "nice" thing, but she seemed to revel in being a c*nt.

    My father just wants to be English and live in some dreary suburban hell-hole like Luton or somewhere, read his Daily Express/Mail and spend his days driving on motorways and stopping off at Little Chefs. If it wasn't for his mother he would definitely have moved there when he was young and I'd be an English girl now! He is so pro free market and anti republican, he seems like your typical Thatcherite. Yet you cannot mention that woman's name in his company for fear he'll boil over with rage. I remember when I was little in the 80s he'd shout abuse at the TV every time she was on (which was a lot). I think the reason why was simply because of her harshness and lack of compassion. Because whatever tough stance my dad might take politically and economically, he has no time for bullies.


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    #47
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    That's right Dudess, that poll tax summed up her feelings towards the English working class.

    'Can't pay, won't pay' were familiar signs above a few motorways when i was over there at the time of the poll tax revolt and they were genuine signs that spoke volumes.

    Demanding person 1 on £1m a yr salary, person 2 on £10,000/yr and person 3 being unemployed to pay the same poll tax of £400/yr no matter what their incomes were, was a bloody disgraceful act and to be condemned.


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    #48
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    gurramok wrote: »
    That's right Dudess, that poll tax summed up her feelings towards the English working class.

    'Can't pay, won't pay' were familiar signs above a few motorways when i was over there at the time of the poll tax revolt and they were genuine signs that spoke volumes.

    Demanding person 1 on £1m a yr salary, person 2 on £10,000/yr and person 3 being unemployed to pay the same poll tax of £400/yr no matter what their incomes were, was a bloody disgraceful act and to be condemned.

    My old home town of Maidenhead was as true blue as you could get. At the time, Dr Alan Glynn was one of the longest serving MPs at westminster, but there was a relatively big demonstration marching from the town to London in protest. In the main it was organised by tory housewives and working class people who were life long conservative voters. Reaction like that was one of the main reasons it was changed. It was also the beginning of the end of the conservative government.


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    #49
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Oh yeah, Maidenhead. That's where my parents' mates used to live in the early 80s. I remember going over there. My dad's friend (an Irishman but very much fancied himself as a Brit) was such a Thatcherite - loved the woman. He was the stereotypical yuppie - flash to the point of ridiculousness, and such a fan of those executive toys and gadgets. Then he did the really stereotypical yuppie thing - developed a serious drink problem, marriage collapsed, lost all his money. What a cliché.

    But yeah, I remember the Poll Tax riots in 1990. I was only 11 or 12 and didn't understand what Poll Tax was, but I will never forget the utter rage of those people. It was a really primal anger - something the likes of which I'd never seen before that.


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    #50
    El Stuntman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,720 ✭✭✭El Stuntman


    bartholomewbinn wrote: »
    Well, she definitely holds one rather dubious record. She is the only British prime minister to have a son who is a major international criminal.

    pah, that's nothing - we have two Prime Ministers who....fill in the blanks yourself


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