UEFA Cup Spots Question

PHB

Ok, now that United are out of the FA CUp, there's only one team left in it who'll defo qualify for a CL spot.

As such, what's the deal with the UEFA Cup spot?

I know in the league cup it only goes to the winner, but I thought in the FA Cup this was different, see Milwall.

Since Spurs have gotten one spot of three from the league cup,
will Porstmouth/Boro/some other non-premiership team now definately get the second spot?
In which case, will that mean that 6th place won't get a UEFA Cup spot?

therecklessone

With Chelsea gone now it isn't an issue...:D

The FA Cup runners-up do qualify for the Uefa Cup if the winners have already qualified for Europe though.

Third_Echelon

Yeah.. Just 5th place in the league now for the UEFA Cup.

Helix

therecklessone wrote: »

With Chelsea gone now it isn't an issue...:D

The FA Cup runners-up do qualify for the Uefa Cup if the winners have already qualified for Europe though.

no they dont, they changed that a few seasons back

after millwall i think it was

DSB

If an English side wins the Champions League is there an extra UEFA cup spot?

Thanx 4 The Fish

No to DSB.

I understand that the runners up in the FA cup do go through but not of the league cup. Not east to find where on the fa website there is an explanation mind, probably do not want anything written down after the liverpool debacle.

PHB

nope

DSB

Everton winning the UEFA cup would make 6th place ok though yeah?

therecklessone

Helix wrote: »

no they dont, they changed that a few seasons back

after millwall i think it was

http://www.uefa.com/newsfiles/19070.pdf

Uefa Cup Regulations wrote:

1.04 If the winner of the domestic cup qualifies for the UEFA Champions League, the domestic cup runner-up may qualify for the UEFA Cup. Should both these clubs qualify for the UEFA Champions League, the association concerned may enter in the UEFA Cup the club which finishes the top domestic league championship immediately below the other club or clubs qualifying for the UEFA Cup. In both cases, the access stage initially reserved for the domestic cup winner is allocated to the club which finishes the domestic league championship in the highest position out of all the clubs which qualify for the UEFA Cup from the association concerned

I should clarify, if the FA Cup winners have already qualified for the Uefa Cup through the league then the runners-up do not qualify, as the FA Cup spot is considered superior to a league spot and so the Cup winners qualify through the cup with the other two spots awarded through the CArling Cup and the league. Confused?:D

therecklessone

DSB wrote: »

Everton winning the UEFA cup would make 6th place ok though yeah?

Not by my reading:

Title-holder
1.06 Unless the UEFA Cup title-holder qualifies for the UEFA Champions League through its domestic championship, it will be guaranteed a place in the first round of the UEFA Cup. If the title-holder does qualify for the UEFA Cup through its domestic competitions, the number of places to which its national association is entitled in the UEFA Cup does not change. If the UEFA Cup title-holder does not qualify for either the UEFA Champions League or UEFA Cup through its domestic competitions, its participation in the UEFA Cup will not be at the expense of the contingent of its association.

Therefore, if Eveton finish 5th and win the Uefa Cup, the teams to qualify for next year will be:

Fa Cup winners
Everton (5th place)
Spurs (Carling Cup)

Thanx 4 The Fish

So if everton win the uefa and finished 7th, they would be in europe along with 5th, FAC and LC.

therecklessone

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

So if everton win the uefa and finished 7th, they would be in europe along with 5th, FAC and LC.

Yes, I'd assumed DSB thought Everton would finish in the top 5. My bad.

Though with them 7 clear of 7th and a game in hand (9 clear of Pompey in 9th with same games played) I can't see them drop out of the top 6 anytime soon.

Thanx 4 The Fish

They do not even need to drop out of top 6, 6th would still see england getting four waffa spots.

therecklessone

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

They do not even need to drop out of top 6, 6th would still see england getting four waffa spots.

True.

Here's another one for ya:

Liverpool drop to 7th place, but win the CL.
Villa climb to 4th, Everton slip to 6th and one of Blackburn, Man City or Pompey finish 5th.

Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea all qualify for the CL along with Liverpool as defending champions.

Spurs plus the FA Cup winners qualify for the Uefa along with Everton as champions. Villa get remaining Uefa spot for 4th place finish.

Blackburn, City and Pompey get steam.



You want further complications?

England tops the Uefa fair play league so gets an additional Uefa spot, Man City are currently the highest placed team in the PL fair play table who are unlikely to qualify for Europe!

Bounty Hunter

anyoe know which clubs applied for the Interoto? i know Villa did as a backup. tis the new Uefa cup dont ya know

edit: just read elsewhere that Welsh teams cant qualify for Europe through non-Welsh competitions, is this true? could Cardiff win he cup but not get european football... surely not.

therecklessone

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

anyoe know which clubs applied for the Interoto? i know Villa did as a backup. tis the new Uefa cup dont ya know

Newcastle value it, didn't they have an open top bus parade when they "won" it?

City, Newcastle, West Ham, Everton, Blackburn, Aston Villa are all believed to have entered their names.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/27022008/4/eriksson-prepared-intertoto.html

Bounty Hunter

good Stuff, Villa to come sixth sneak in the intertoto backdoor to Europe next year before winning the Uefa.

Bobalicious93

Barnsley for the UEFA Cup!!!!!! :D:D

SantryRed

If Cardiff win the FA Cup, 6th place will be a UEFA Cup spot again:D

Vokes

SantryRed wrote: »

If Cardiff win the FA Cup, 6th place will be a UEFA Cup spot again

^Is that for definite - I can't see anything in the news clarifying if its for Prem 6th or Cup runner-up.

Would be a shame if FA Cup runner-up didn't get it.

Eirebear

Im unsure on this one, because IIRC the SFA tried to change their ruling to give the UEFA cup spot for league fnish rather than Scottish Cup runner up and UEFA said no to it.

Fratton Fred

What's the chances of Cardiff getting into Europe, smashing up Rome and English clubs getting a ban :rolleyes:

Eirebear

Fratton Fred wrote: »

What's the chances of Cardiff getting into Europe, smashing up Rome and English clubs getting a ban :rolleyes:

oh the irony!:D

~Rebel~

Fratton Fred wrote: »

What's the chances of Cardiff getting into Europe, smashing up Rome and English clubs getting a ban :rolleyes:

Cardiff aren't allowed into the Uefa cup representing England regardless if they win the Fa cup.

Eirebear

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Cardiff aren't allowed into the Uefa cup representing England regardless if they win the Fa cup.

Really?
How does that work....surely they are under the banner of the FA, therefore they should be put forward by the FA as the cup winners?

_blank_

Eirebear wrote: »

Really?
How does that work....surely they are under the banner of the FA, therefore they should be put forward by the FA as the cup winners?

There is some rule saying that if you play out of your jurisdiction then you can't represent the one you do play in in Euro comps.

However, I put a link in the thread about the draw which would seem to contradict this.

Also, seemingly a couple of years ago the FAW tried to get the three "England based" Welsh teams (Cardiff, Swansea and Wrecsam) to be able to qualify for the UEFA Cup via the Welsh FA Cup, but that was shot down by UEFA because they are able to qualify via the English comps.

It all seems to be a bit murky tbh.

Does anyone else find it strange that these three teams are playing in the English leagues? I mean, there is a League of Wales.

I wonder if Celtic and Rangers have looked at these clubs with a bit of envy.

Mr Alan

i always found it very strange that they play in the English leagues.

Say a club like Cardiff, they are a big enough club, big fanbase. If they ever make it to the PL and with a bit of stability manage to stay there. will they just stop bothering to try as regardless of league position they wont be able to play in Europe?

strange

Eirebear

DesF wrote: »

I wonder if Celtic and Rangers have looked at these clubs with a bit of envy.

I wouldnt say envy is the correct word to use! But they are always brought up when the inevitable conversation comes up.
Along with Berwick playing in scotland of course.

_blank_

Mr Alan wrote: »

i always found it very strange that they play in the English leagues.

Say a club like Cardiff, they are a big enough club, big fanbase. If they ever make it to the PL and with a bit of stability manage to stay there. will they just stop bothering to try as regardless of league position they wont be able to play in Europe?

strange

Hmm.

I've done a bit more reading on this (opened wikipedia and typed in League of Wales tbh).

The League of Wales was only formed in 1992 :eek: and previous to this

the best teams in Wales had always played over the border in the English leagues.

There are three other Welsh teams playing "in England"

Colwyn Bay, Merthyr Tydfil and Newport County remain in the English league pyramid system.

Merthyr Tydfil eh? That's a blast from the past.

radiospan

Mr Alan wrote: »

i always found it very strange that they play in the English leagues.

Say a club like Cardiff, they are a big enough club, big fanbase. If they ever make it to the PL and with a bit of stability manage to stay there. will they just stop bothering to try as regardless of league position they wont be able to play in Europe?

strange

Are you sure they aren't allowed represent England in Europe? Derry City have represented Ireland / FAI. I don't know if that's a valid comparison.

_blank_

plazzTT wrote: »

Are you sure they aren't allowed represent England in Europe? Derry City have represented Ireland / FAI. I don't know if that's a valid comparison.

:eek::eek:

FFS, How the jaysus did someone not realise this up to now.

This is an extremely valid comparison tbh.

The City of Derry is most certainly in a different country to the one it's soccer team plays in.

Even more so than the difference between England and Wales tbh.

Fratton Fred

DesF wrote: »

Merthyr Tydfil eh? That's a blast from the past.

The first time I saw Pompey play was in the first round of the FA cup against Merthyr Tydfil. I also remember playing Newport in the league once. They beat us 2-1 at home the season we were relegated to the old old fourth division.

I was err, very young at the time:rolleyes:

therecklessone

DesF wrote: »

:eek::eek:

FFS, How the jaysus did someone not realise this up to now.

This is an extremely valid comparison tbh.

The City of Derry is most certainly in a different country to the one it's soccer team plays in.

Derry City are members of the FAI, Cardiff City are still members of the FAW and play in the English football league as associate members only. That is the difference.

http://www.rivals.net/News/pgArticle.aspx?artid=2483_3194191

It's an unique situation for Cardiff as they play in our association yet belong to another one in the FAW. Representation would have to be entered by us. They are not eligible for an English place. Those rules are set in stone at the start of the season and they enter in that knowledge.

"If Cardiff did get to the final it would make no difference. If they faced either Chelsea or Manchester United then, provided they finished within the European places, the remaining place would go to an alternative Premiership team.

I've checked the Uefa Cup regulations and also the FA Cup regulations and there is nothing in either to suggest that Cardiff cannot qualify for Europe through the FA Cup, indeed the Uefa regs would suggest they should:

Article 1
Number of clubs per UEFA member association

1.01 UEFA member associations may enter the winner of the national association’s cup competition (hereinafter domestic cup), as well as a certain number of other clubs for the competition, in accordance with their position in the coefficient rankings in Annex Ia, drawn up in accordance with Annex II of these regulations. Only one single team per club may be entered.

1.02 UEFA member associations are represented on the following basis:
<snip>
c) Three representatives: winner of the domestic cup and the two clubs which finish the top league domestic championship immediately below the club(s) which qualify for the UEFA Champions League.

1.03 In special circumstances, the winner of another official domestic competition may be entered for the UEFA Cup instead of the lowest ranking top domestic league championship representative referred to in paragraphs 1.02c) and 1.02d), provided such a competition has been approved by UEFA before the start of the season in question (see Annex Ia).

1.04 If the winner of the domestic cup qualifies for the UEFA Champions League, the domestic cup runner-up may qualify for the UEFA Cup. Should both these clubs qualify for the UEFA Champions League, the association concerned may enter in the UEFA Cup the club which finishes the top domestic league championship immediately below the other club or clubs qualifying for the UEFA Cup. In both cases, the access stage initially reserved for the domestic cup winner is allocated to the club which finishes the domestic league championship in the highest position out of all the clubs which qualify for the UEFA Cup from the association concerned

citytillidie

They used to take part in the Welsh cup and one of them would get into Europe but UEFA changed it so they all pulled out.