Alcohol and Good Friday (reloaded)

Turd Ferguson

koolkid wrote: »

The romans crucifixed loads of people. The story of Christ is no more verified than any other religions .

Exactly. I think we all know the rules

KoolKid

Pics are no good no that we have Photo Shop..
I'll settle for an unedited video.:D

Ann22

koolkid wrote: »

Anniversary? Really?? What date did he die then??


Verified?? How? Source??

Come on, you know what I meant...it's symbolic, the way we celebrate Christmas as the birth. Regardless of whether you believe Jesus was the Son of God or not...he did a whole lot of good while he was here. His life and death led to the spread of Christianity across the world...whether many live as Christians or not is questionable but quite a few do, which is a good thing. A whole lot of good Christian people living today, from blood, organ and bone marrow donors and all the tireless charity workers so believer or not, He deserves his death to be commorated.
It's the influence the Catholic Church has had in this country over the years that ensure that the pubs close on Good Friday...very reminiscent of the pre Renaissance years where folk believed that to get into Heaven you must suffer in this world:). The church feels we're not supposed to enjoy ourselves on that day..however I believe it should be a personal thing. That if someone wants to spend the day quietly, go the the ceremonies or whatever work away but those who have little faith should be able to do as they please. I mean if the only reason people don't go to the pub is because it's closed, it's not penance..know what i mean?

KoolKid

Ann22 wrote: »

Come on, you know what I meant...it's symbolic, the way we celebrate Christmas as the birth.

But Christmas falls on the same date every year so that could be called an anniversary.

Ann22 wrote: »

Regardless of whether you believe Jesus was the Son of God or not...he did a whole lot of good while he was here

Regardles of whether I belive?
If I don't belive that why should I have to believe he did a lot of good?
Or maybe thats verified as well?:rolleyes:
None of us really know what happened 2000+ years ago & its all irrelevant as to whether we can drink on 2 certain days of the year.
The Christmas day one is quite hypocritical really considering most people drink on Christmas Day anyway.
But then again the Catholic Church is full of hyporicy

deecom

You should come here, pubs are open, so its no big deal. Had a pint in the local.

philologos

koolkid wrote: »

But Christmas falls on the same date every year so that could be called an anniversary.

Christmas isn't the exact same period in which Christ was born though, it is merely the period in which we acknowledge Christ's birth. Easter however does mark the same period during the year in which Christ was crucified. The only reason they don't fall on the same date is that the Hebrew calendar is different to the Gregorian calendar that we use in Europe, and which took dominance in most of the world.

He died on the Friday of the Passover festival.

koolkid wrote: »

Regardles of whether I belive?
If I don't belive that why should I have to believe he did a lot of good?
Or maybe thats verified as well?:rolleyes:
None of us really know what happened 2000+ years ago & its all irrelevant as to whether we can drink on 2 certain days of the year.
The Christmas day one is quite hypocritical really considering most people drink on Christmas Day anyway.
But then again the Catholic Church is full of hyporicy

We have a chronicling of what Christ did on earth, you can either choose to accept it or reject it. That's basically the choice. The teachings are all outlined in the Gospels, and in the New Testament epistles. You can either choose to follow them or not.

As for not knowing what happened 2,000 years ago, should we dismiss Roman history then as being nothing but nonsense? Greek and Roman Civilisations shouldn't be studied at universities?

javaboy

Jakkass wrote: »

We have a chronicling of what Christ did on earth, you can either choose to accept it or reject it. That's basically the choice. The teachings are all outlined in the Gospels, and in the New Testament epistles. You can either choose to follow them or not.

But regardless of whether one chooses to follow them or not, they are bound by an archaic law designed for those who do.

philologos

javaboy wrote: »

But regardless of whether one chooses to follow them or not, they are bound by an archaic law designed for those who do.

To be honest with you, I think if a majority are not willing to support the Christian festivals surrounding Easter, I'll concede the law probably should be changed. It'd be quite sad to see this position pass however and I can see the reasoning why the Government did have this in the past, and continue to still have it.

Turd Ferguson

javaboy wrote: »

But regardless of whether one chooses to follow them or not, they are bound by an archaic law designed for those who do.

Exactly. But what puzzles me is that it is against the law to sell alcohol but it is not against the law to sell meat on Good Friday. Can anyone answer me that?

bobbly

RELIGILOUS!

javaboy

Jakkass wrote: »

To be honest with you, I think if a majority are not willing to support the Christian festivals surrounding Easter, I'll concede the law probably should be changed.

It should be changed regardless of majority support in my opinion. Religious rules shouldn't apply to secular states.

It'd be quite sad to see this position pass however and I can see the reasoning why the Government did have this in the past, and continue to still have it.

Why would it be sad to see this position pass? Do you not respect that this is a non-religious state?

Unfortunately, the chances of this law being changed any time soon are pretty slim. Irish people are generally apathetic and it's not the most urgent issue at the moment so it's not likely to come up on doorsteps at election time. Also, just like in the United States, politicians are afraid of going against the church for fear they'll lose the old people vote at the ballot box.

javaboy

Turd Ferguson wrote: »

Exactly. But what puzzles me is that it is against the law to sell alcohol but it is not against the law to sell meat on Good Friday. Can anyone answer me that?

Apparently the ban on the sale of alcohol is to ensure everyone can have a nice happy time on Good Friday to celebrate the Passion whether they buy into it or not. It's not a religious law at all you see.

Now personally I thought being drunk and disorderly in a public place and so on was against the law anyway so I don't know why this law is needed.

philologos

javaboy wrote: »

Why would it be sad to see this position pass? Do you not respect that this is a non-religious state?

I have a difference in opinion over how far secularism should go. I don't support demolishing every sign of Christian heritage in Ireland step by step. I do support religious freedoms for all people, and I do support keeping religious institutions separate from Government. However, if the Government wants to respect the holiest day in the Christian calendar to recognise the Christian past that this country has had, I don't personally see anything wrong with that. Just as much as if I lived in an Islamic majority state which wanted to mark Eid-al-Adha or Eid-ul-Fitr, or if I lived in Israel, and I wasn't able to go shopping during Shabbat or Passover or something along those lines.

I've seen the UK even go as far as to restrict nurses in asking patients if they want to be prayed for. It's just a bit ridiculous how far people are going, and I would argue that there is such thing as extreme secularism.

However, if the majority of the State want this to be a part of our history that we should bury and forget, I'd understand that there was a mandate to do so.

Red Sleeping Beauty

Jakkass has a whopping 53 posts in this thread!!
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/misc.php?do=whoposted&t=2055251489

Flukey

So, did you all survive?

javaboy

Jakkass wrote: »

I have a difference in opinion over how far secularism should go. I don't support demolishing every sign of Christian heritage in Ireland step by step.

Neither do I. Secularism and Christian heritage are not incompatible.

I do support keeping religious institutions separate from Government.

You clearly don't based on the next sentence.

However, if the Government want's to respect the holiest day in the Christian calendar to recognise the Christian past that this country has had, I don't personally see anything wrong with that.

I've seen the UK even go as far as to restrict nurses in asking patients if they want to be prayed for. It's just a bit ridiculous how far people are going, and I would argue that there is such thing as extreme secularism.

I agree that's ridiculous. But that's not really relevant to this debate. Secularism does not have to mean anti-religion.

Sam Vimes

Jakkass wrote: »

I do support keeping religious institutions separate from Government

Jakkass wrote: »

However, if the Government wants to respect the holiest day in the Christian calendar to recognise the Christian past that this country has had, I don't personally see anything wrong with that.

Right so you believe in separation of church and state but see nothing wrong with the government making a law recognising a holy day in christianity. So would you support it if this secular country with no association with christianity introduced a law requiring us not to eat during the day during Ramadan?

How about a law requiring us to treat cows as sacred as they do in India?

This isn't a christian country remember so there's nothing that says the laws have to enforce christian rules. There are lots of Muslims and Hindus here too

Stercus Accidit

Impose any restriction based on Judaism, or Islam on an Irish Christian and see how long they support state imposed laws based on a religious belief.

I don't subscribe to your religion, do not force its beliefs through law on me.

Flukey

rlogue wrote: »

Good man Flukey,
Long ago we used to frequent a now dead board known as "Free the Eritrean One"

Good man Rlogue. So, tell me, was the Eritrean One freed, and if so what is he doing these days? There are a lot of that crew still around. It is good to see you old friend and to see you are still doing your bit. It's people like you and I and the many others of that board that make those little corners of the internet the interesting places that they are.

KoolKid

Turd Ferguson wrote: »

But what puzzles me is that it is against the law to sell alcohol but it is not against the law to sell meat on Good Friday. Can anyone answer me that?

Amazing isn't it. Never seem to get an answer to that one.
What other religion in Ireland uses the Law to impose their rules on others.

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

Impose any restriction based on Judaism, or Islam on an Irish Christian and see how long they support state imposed laws based on a religious belief.

It would not be tolerated. Another sign of Catholic hypocricy.

I don't subscribe to your religion, do not force its beliefs through law on me.

+ 1
It also amazes me how the Catholic religion is compleatly based on blind faith with not one scrap of solid evidence. Yet those who belive try & convince us of all these verified events.

philologos

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

Impose any restriction based on Judaism, or Islam on an Irish Christian and see how long they support state imposed laws based on a religious belief.

I don't subscribe to your religion, do not force its beliefs through law on me.

Actually if I lived in an Islamic majority or a Jewish majority state I would have no issue in eating kosher / halal and I would have no issue in respecting cultural norms around Islamic or Jewish festivals.

javaboy

Jakkass, do you think the Republic of Ireland is a secular state?

philologos

javaboy wrote: »

Jakkass, do you think the Republic of Ireland is a secular state?

I've explained my position on this already. It's clear to me anyway, that the Catholic Church isn't directly involved in state affairs. In that sense the state is still secular. However if individuals are elected by the people consider it acceptable to respect Good Friday by putting measures in place, that is the elected officials, not the Church itself making the decision.

seclachi

Nobody complains about days off on holy days, but close the pubs for 2 days in the year and people will rant like mad about church & state and try to compare it to back when it was a serious issue. Its scary how dependent this country is on alcohol for entertainment.

EDIT:

Turd Ferguson wrote: »

Exactly. But what puzzles me is that it is against the law to sell alcohol but it is not against the law to sell meat on Good Friday. Can anyone answer me that?

I loved this one, maybe its because meat serves some purpose for human nutrition while alcohol is simply an excess ?

Im sounding very hardline here, it just that alchol based culture annoys the crap out of me.

javaboy

Jakkass wrote: »

I've explained my position on this already. It's clear to me anyway, that the Catholic Church isn't directly involved in state affairs. In that sense the state is still secular. However if individuals are elected by the people consider it acceptable to respect Good Friday by putting measures in place, that is the elected officials, not the Church itself making the decision.

I don't you understand quite what a secular state is. It does not simply mean that the church is not running things.

It means that the state is neutral on religion. By supporting the Catholic church and enforcing the Good Friday drink ban, the state is clearly not being neutral on religion. Therefore the state is not secular.

javaboy

seclachi wrote: »

Nobody complains about days off on holy days, but close the pubs for 2 days in the year and people will rant like mad about church & state and try to compare it to back when it was a serious issue. Its scary how dependent this country is on alcohol for entertainment.

I wouldn't have been in the pub on Good Friday whether I could buy drink or not. I don't drink very often at all. This could be a ban on the sale of carrots on Good Friday for all I care. It's the principle.

Ann22

koolkid wrote: »

But Christmas falls on the same date every year so that could be called an anniversary.''

It's not really, we celebrate it on the same day but it's not the actual date of His birth, again it's symbolic, like any feast day. Easter is different as Jakkass has said.

''Regardles of whether I believe?''
I wasn't referring to you personally.

''If I don't belive that why should I have to believe he did a lot of good?
Or maybe thats verified as well?:rolleyes:''
The crucifiction of Jesus led to the spread of Christianity or at the very least popularised it regardless of whether He was the Son of God or not no matter who believes.

''None of us really know what happened 2000+ years ago''
Maybe not but we could say that about any historical event. Some have faith and believe without seeing anyway.

''The Christmas day one is quite hypocritical really considering most people drink on Christmas Day anyway.''
If Jesus had never been born, there wouldn't be a Christmas day.

''But then again the Catholic Church is full of hyporicy

'' Yes, I daresay it is, I'd agree with that.

banquo

seclachi wrote: »

Nobody complains about days off on holy days,

+1. I sure as hell don't, but I've been content to complain about Good Friday, etc. Arh, the hypocrisy!

Sam Vimes

Jakkass wrote: »

Actually if I lived in an Islamic majority or a Jewish majority state I would have no issue in eating kosher / halal and I would have no issue in respecting cultural norms around Islamic or Jewish festivals.

Right, in an islamic state or a Jewish state I'd have no problem with them enforcing their rules but this is not a christian state, it has no affiliation with any religion.
It used to but that affiliation was deliberately removed

The question was would you support Islamic or Jewish traditions being legally enforced here. You say that christian bar workers might want the day off to recognise the holy day so why don't we force all businesses to close on Saturday to recognise the Jewish Sabbath? They're not supposed to work after all

sunshine007

I spent the afternoon and much of the evening in the pub on good Friday...Slipped accross the border and the craic was great and the pub was packed Not a big drinker but had a great day - and it was €9 for a round 2 coors light and a bulmers couldnt beat it with a big stick!!!