Alcohol and Good Friday (reloaded)

philologos

Actually, Random, I don't think the State is forcing anyone to believe by honouring Good Friday, but rather recognising the special influence that it has had on Ireland in the past.

SV, I'm not asking anyone for anything. Rather I support the kind honour that the State has given Good Friday for all those who believe in Jesus Christ as Lord in Ireland.

SV

Jakkass wrote: »

Actually, Random, I don't think the State is forcing anyone to believe by honouring Good Friday, but rather recognising the special influence that it has had on Ireland in the past.

Yep, key word, past.

philologos

SV wrote: »

Yep, key word, past.

I'd argue it still has a pretty strong influence to this day

SV

Jakkass wrote: »

I'd argue it still has a pretty strong influence to this day

Strong influence yeah, that's apparent from the whole alcohol ban and all.

Not a very strong following though.

Random

Jakkass wrote: »

Actually, Random, I don't think the State is forcing anyone to believe by honouring Good Friday, but rather recognising the special influence that it has had on Ireland in the past.

SV, I'm not asking anyone for anything. Rather I support the kind honour that the State has given Good Friday for all those who believe in Jesus Christ as Lord in Ireland.

The past happened and we call it history for a reason. Why should people today have to put up with something that people long ago used to do? We move forward as a people and we become more tolerant of other cultures etc. Why can't these religious people be tolerant of present day Ireland where very few young people actually give a toss about jesus christ?

Leave the pubs and off licenses open and if you don't want to visit them then don't.

philologos

Used to do? There's still a sizeable amount of Christians on this island. As for "very few young people" giving a toss about Jesus Christ, I'm not so sure that that stands either. Albeit it's not 100% of the population, there are still quite a lot of young people I know who believe rather strongly in it.

mloc

Jakkass wrote: »

Used to do? There's still a sizeable amount of Christians on this island. As for "very few young people" giving a toss about Jesus Christ, I'm not so sure that that stands either. Albeit it's not 100% of the population, there are still quite a lot of young people I know who believe rather strongly in it.

The real issue is why should you and your deluded cohort be allowed to force your beliefs on everyone else? As several people have pointed it out, if you want to abstain on good friday, why don't you do that, and let everyone else make thier own choices.

Xiney

I don't particularly care that alcohol can't be sold on Good Friday, but I don't drink that often. I certainly don't agree with the REASON it's not sold.


However, I too don't think there are a lot of religious people in Ireland under the age of about 40. I certainly think the proportion of people who feel strongly that alcohol shouldn't be sold on Good Friday is very small, and probably full of bunny boilers.

philologos

I'm still waiting for you to provide a reason why Christians are any more deluded than the rest of the population. Or indeed, why aren't atheists deemed to be deluded? I'd argue that you are mistaken. However it's a pointless argument for you to get into. It's contestable by nature, if you can't substantiate it there is really little or no point in gettting into it.

I think that Christianity is something that the State should be proud of and something that the State should recognise. I'm glad that the State isn't taking secularism to extremes like in the UK where a nurse was suspended for asking someone if they would like her to pray for them. How absurd is that?

Random

The normal thing is for off licenses and pubs to be open. I'm not suggesting they be opened specially for people who don't subscribe to religion, I'm suggesting that they not be closed for those whole subscribe to religion.

hideous ape

Jakkass wrote: »

Used to do? There's still a sizeable amount of Christians on this island. As for "very few young people" giving a toss about Jesus Christ, I'm not so sure that that stands either. Albeit it's not 100% of the population, there are still quite a lot of young people I know who believe rather strongly in it.

Well of my personal friends between the ages of 19 and 35...only 2 out of about 50 people actually still go to mass. Those 2 only go at Xmas because their family makes them go. One of them even thinks she's a white witch!

If those sort of numbers are repeated throughout the country then I'm afraid the Church is only visited by the majority of young people for weddings, funerals, etc. Not for any personal religious reasons. Thats why I think any existing religion-tinted laws will be removed in the next few years.

mloc

Jakkass wrote: »

I'm still waiting for you to provide a reason why Christians are any more deluded than the rest of the population. Or indeed, why aren't atheists deemed to be deluded? I'd argue that you are mistaken. However it's a pointless argument for you to get into. It's contestable by nature, if you can't substantiate it there is really little or no point in gettting into it.

I think that Christianity is something that the State should be proud of and something that the State should recognise. I'm glad that the State isn't taking secularism to extremes like in the UK where a nurse was suspended for asking someone if they would like her to pray for them. How absurd is that?

Atheism is largely based on science, fact and empirical evidence. Christianity, or whatever flavour of what is essentially the same monotheism (I'm sure as such an ardent Catholic you'll be familiar with the uncanny simliarities between Islam, Judaism and Christianity) is based on none of these things but a constantly eroded set of orchestrated plagiarisms, delusions and plain lies.

The inability of the religious to keep it to themselves and not meddle in the affairs of others is indicative of its poisonous nature.

dublinario

(mmm mmm mmm. Look at them, tearing each other apart, atheists and theists alike. Soon they'll come flocking to Scientology. And that's when the cows will come home to roost.)

philologos

1) Science != atheism

Many Christians are scientists. Have you ever heard of Christians In Science? They are doing a conference in Maynooth in a few weeks actually on bioethics.

2) Christian != Catholic

I believe in Christ, I'm not a member of the Roman Catholic Church however, and I never have been. However I respect Catholics, and I consider them my brothers and sisters in Christ.

"Delusions and plain lies". See making statements without basis isn't going to help anyone. Let's discuss it, tell me why you think this? I believe Christianity to be the truth.

Christianity isn't about keeping it to ourselves, we have a moral duty to evangelise to all people in all nations. People have this wierd belief that religion is a private matter, for me it's a public matter. My friends know I am a Christian. I don't go around screaming it, but I don't suppress my opinions either, if I believe that they have the potential to build people up for the purposes of Christ's Kingdom (Ephesians 4).

mloc

Jakkass wrote: »

1) Science != atheism

Many Christians are scientists. Have you ever heard of Christians In Science? They are doing a conference in Maynooth in a few weeks actually on bioethics.

2) Christian != Catholic

I believe in Christ, I'm not a member of the Roman Catholic Church however, and I never have been. However I respect Catholics, and I consider them my brothers and sisters in Christ.

"Delusions and plain lies". See making statements without basis isn't going to help anyone. Let's discuss it, tell me why you think this? I believe Christianity to be the truth.

Christianity isn't about keeping it to ourselves, we have a moral duty to evangelise to all people in all nations. People have this wierd belief that religion is a private matter, for me it's a public matter. My friends know I am a Christian. I don't go around screaming it, but I don't suppress my opinions either, if I believe that they have the potential to build people up for the purposes of Christ's Kingdom (Ephesians 4).

I have no interest in debating why your beliefs are valid or not, your need to evangelise has already firmly put you in the crackpot column. I'm comfortable with my atheism and have no need to inflict it on you, but my problem is I fear you are unable to reciprocate in that regard.

Dont be at yourself

I've seen the light. All restaurants and supermarkets should also be banned from selling meat on Good Friday - or, heck, any friday - because we should respect our christian heritage.

zzzzzzzzzzz.

Agent Smith

ffs


Pubs and Offies are closed 2 days of the year.


If your that pushed, just get the drink in on thursday evening, or wait till midnight. Its generally the only day of the year that pubs can lay new carpet without losing out on business.


(personally, i'd bring in 24hr drinking, but thats just me)

philologos

Evangelism is a belief put forward by Christianity, there must be a few labourers for the Gospel.

Matthew 9:37 wrote:

Then He said to His disciples, "The harvest is plentiful, but the labourers few; therefore ask the Lord of the harvest to sent our labourers into His harvest."

Matthew 28:19 wrote:

"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"

Mark 16:15 wrote:

"And he said to them, "Go into all the world and proclaim the good news to the whole creation."

Romans 10:15 wrote:

"And how are they to proclaim Him unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"

Just a few examples of this in Scripture. How on earth do you think Christianity got to Ireland if Christians didn't evangelise the Gospel?

philologos

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

I've seen the light. All restaurants and supermarkets should also be banned from selling meat on Good Friday - or, heck, any friday - because we should respect our christian heritage.

zzzzzzzzzzz.

The meat isn't an issue for me, however if the country wants to respect the specifically Catholic heritage, I'd put up with it no problem. However, the Government preventing as much as possible against drunkenness on holy days seems to be a pretty good policy by my book.

dublinario

Jakkass wrote: »

Just a few examples of this in Scripture. How on earth do you think Christianity got to Ireland if Christians didn't evangelise the Gospel?

Some equally compelling scripture quotations here.

Dont be at yourself

Its generally the only day of the year that pubs can lay new carpet without losing out on business.

It's very nice of the government to legislate a carpet-laying day. We all know those dim-witted landlords couldn't do it without being forced to shut their doors!

It's only one day, and I can buy my drinks on Thursday. But, why settle for that? It doesn't matter if it is one day or twenty days of three hundred and sixty five days. I mean, it shouldn't be any day. I should be able to go to the pub after work on Friday and enjoy a nice pint with my friends or family. But because of the millstone of our catholic heritage, we can't! We're effectively being forced into practicing a belief we don't believe in!

rubadub

MonicaBing wrote: »

I believe you can drink if your on a train, or at a gig?

I think it might be comedy gigs. Think the laughter lounge might be open, not certain.

Jakkass wrote: »

I don't see what the big problem is exactly.

The Government is or was at the time trying to be culturally aware of the Christian foundations that were in this country, and I think that's only admirable. (Then again I am sorely biased here)

As said, wouldn't it make more sense to make the sale of meat illegal on good friday? don't remember anything about booze on good friday in religion class.

Why not ban the sale of coffee, tea, chocolate and all caffeine containing products on Saint Brigid's day?

brigids and good friday are just religious holidays, not even public holidays. Wonder who came up with the idea of picking random religious days and banning the sale of random recreational drugs, forcing business to shut for the day.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

I've seen the light. All restaurants and supermarkets should also be banned from selling meat on Good Friday - or, heck, any friday - because we should respect our christian heritage.

zzzzzzzzzzz.

:rolleyes:

Agent Smith wrote: »

ffs


Pubs and Offies are closed 2 days of the year.


If your that pushed, just get the drink in on thursday evening, or wait till midnight. Its generally the only day of the year that pubs can lay new carpet without losing out on business.


(personally, i'd bring in 24hr drinking, but thats just me)

It's a problem because people do not have the choice. Other religions are forced to follow the rules of catholism, (if that's how you spell it). It's principle. Personally I don't drink that much at all but I rather a religion wasn't forced on me...

philologos

dublinario wrote: »

Some equally compelling scripture quotations here.

They would have been good if they were actually in the Bible

congo_90

*edit*
Ah i love this thread!
I for one still think its hilarous to watch people quieing out the door for shed loads of gargle all for the loss (rather relief on livers) one night has. Poor bar staff get a day off and the whole country panics.

Private bars FTW!
-or-
Its like christmas day. Your forced to stay in with the family/parnter in front of the tv with cans/bottles and a dry ****e athmosphere. I reckon we should throw parties in rebellion of the law!
Cans, barbeque and a field. Be like being 15 years old again except not drinking Druids in a hoodie.
I for one will be doing as I said and gathering as many as possible.

philologos

rubadub wrote: »

As said, wouldn't it make more sense to make the sale of fish illegal on good friday? don't remember anything about booze on good friday in religion class.

Theres nothing in the Biblical text concerning meat on Good Friday either. I would support limiting purchases of alcohol on Good Friday to keep the day with reverence and to discourage people from getting drunk on that day.

rubadub

Agent Smith wrote: »

Its generally the only day of the year that pubs can lay new carpet without losing out on business.

I know you are joking, but they are losing out on business, friday is one of, if not the busiest day in most pubs. My local has huge business from the bank offices next door, friday has far more business than a saturday.

Pubs can close any day they wish, they are not forced to stay open, if they want to do work they would probably choose a monday or tuesday.

Random

congo_90 wrote: »

*edit*
Ah i love this thread!
I for one still think its hilarous to watch people quieing out the door for shed loads of gargle all for the loss (rather relief on livers) one night has. Poor bar staff get a day off and the whole country panics.

Private bars FTW!
-or-
Its like christmas day. Your forced to stay in with the family/parnter in front of the tv with cans/bottles and a dry ****e athmosphere. I reckon we should throw parties in rebellion of the law!
Cans, barbeque and a field. Be like being 15 years old again except not drinking Druids in a hoodie.
I for one will be doing as I said and gathering as many as possible.

I reckon the pub should be open Xmas too if that's what the pubs / off licenses want. That's another thread perhaps though but all part of a bigger issue.

rubadub

Jakkass wrote: »

Theres nothing in the Biblical text concerning meat on Good Friday either.

Right, I never paid much attention! I also messed up and said fish.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Friday

Traditionally, Roman Catholics are to abstain from eating meat every Friday of the year as penance. Nowadays, this is only a requirement during Fridays of Lent; during Fridays of the rest of the year, other methods of penance may be followed, for example an extra prayer. As a modern tradition, many Roman Catholics (and members of other Christian denominations as well) will eat fish and vegetables on Good Friday.

No tradition is mentioned there about alcohol

Jakkass wrote: »

I would support limiting purchases of alcohol on Good Friday to keep the day with reverence and to discourage people from getting drunk on that day.

What about those who do not revere that day. Those who do can just not drink themselves. Strange that the government went to the bother of making a law for this "special day", yet it is not important enough to be a public holiday. My aunt used to give us holy calendars, almost every day is a religious holiday!

philologos

rubadub wrote: »

What about those who do not revere that day. Those who do can just not drink themselves. Strange that the government went to the bother of making a law for this "special day", yet it is not important enough to be a public holiday. My aunt used to give us holy calendars, almost every day is a religious holiday!

Depends if you want to include the days of Saints. I personally believe all Christians are saints, as Paul refers to them as such at the beginnings of his letters to the new and rising Christian communities. However, this isn't a traditional Roman Catholic view by any means.